RIOT CHANGE THE WAY TEAM PUNISHMENT IS FOR RANKED!!!

SofaKingFishyy·Nov 23, 2017·3 votes·622 views

Sick and tired of being punished for someone else's behavior. I am not a flamer in game and I am highly against it as I believe telling someone they suck or their a noob just makes matters worse. But for the love of me I dont understand the ranking system. I was in a game that we couldn't remake because apparently remake is only when a player can't connect. So we all connected and because one person decides to wait at spawn we all have to suffer? BE SMARTER THAN THIS RIOT, I don't understand who thinks this is actually fair but maybe making a system where points are taken away due to one person. Whether you wan't to admit it or not one bad apple does spoil the bunch, especially in bronze. FIX YOUR REWARD SYSTEM RIOT, YOU WILL LOSE PEOPLE DUE TO THIS ONE UNFAIR RULE.

13 Comments

SarutobiNov 23, 20173 votes

So you are upset about the remake system that isnt working how it was never intended to work? Remake is only for players who never connect period. Its not for players who leave the game. It was never for that in the first place!

LGD xiDaDaNov 23, 20172 votes

Instead of asking question regarding the system Riot implemented, you should know why Riot gave you those kinds of players. That is because they want to. Riot wants to force everyone's win rate to be equal (closes to 50%). Besides, due to the loss of players, those mismatched games would be happened much more frequently. That's why you now feel "unfair".

ChermorgNov 23, 20171 votes

That's not true. It just so happens that when people are matched with people of similar skill, they will win about 50% of their games. Riot has nothing to gain from "forcing" people to only win 50%, and actually it's highly unlikely they'd be able to do so if they tried.

AterpaterNov 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's not true. It just so happens that when people are matched with people of similar skill, they will win about 50% of their games. Riot has nothing to gain from "forcing" people to only win 50%, and actually it's highly unlikely they'd be able to do so if they tried.

I don't say they do it on purpose (maybe...). But this is very much possible, there's an obvious advantage for the company, and it's widely used in online team games with a matchmaker.

It works like this: When your team wins, even if you got carried, your MMR goes up. So, after a few games your MMR will take up most of your team's MMR and you will be teamed with worse teammates against a much better team, so you will start to lose until your MMR falls down again. The most obvious proof when a system like this in effect is when you got win and lose streaks all the time. And actually this is the reason why these online games rank you based on your random team's performance and not your own performance.

The advantage: A system like this shows much better results in terms of player retainment. The reason put it simply is, that when good players can win all of their matches, they won't pay money and won't grind 24/7 and bad players will just quit soon as nobody likes to be owned all day. But when you force good players to lose from time to time, they will have enough frustration to buy stuff in hope of better matches and you will make them grind day and night (opperant conditioning, kind of). On the other hand, bad players will get some random success regulary so they will have fun and keep on playing. Bigger active playerbase, better revenue.

It's this simple and its - imo sadly - pretty ubiquitous in these games nowadays.

For more details and similar systems, you should check this interesting paper: An Engagement Optimized Matchmaking Framework, Chen et al. 2017

ChermorgNov 23, 20171 votes

That would make sense if people bought things in League to win more games, but buying things doesn't improve your chances at all.

I don't think it's a fault of the matchmaking system that it hovers around 50/50. That's just a side effect of the fact that matchmaking exists.

AterpaterNov 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That would make sense if people bought things in League to win more games, but buying things doesn't improve your chances at all.

I'm afraid you misunderstood me. It has nothing to do with p2w models. Actually, this system doesn't work for p2w games as they have to give you real advantage for your money. In this case you don't get any real advantage but you will keep on trying new champs, roles, approaches, as you're trying to battle something what you just can't beat.

I don't think it's a fault of the matchmaking system that it hovers around 50/50. That's just a side effect of the fact that matchmaking exists.

It isn't a "fault". It is kind of the very reason of a system like this. In a fair and proper matchmaking you won't get 50/50 winrate, think about just real life sports for example. Not to mention that outside these f2p games nobody ever uses a team's score to rank an individual member as it's obviously nonsense :) Yeah, sure, I know, sooner or later it will turn out even with this system - people did the math for LoL's system and you need at least 800-1000 matches to start to get roughly accurate results... The reason of the system is to keep the playerbase playing a lot and mostly having fun. An example: Quake Arena had the best matchmaking in any videogame so far, simply because it was 100% ran by the community itself. It based strictly on the real Elo used in chess. It worked like a charm but it resulted in bad players quiting and a lack of influx of new players as they couldn't start to climb anywhere or beat older players without practicing for literally years. Btw players could have 20% or 80% winrates in that system easily.

These kind of manipulated systems helped a lot to keep a lot of players playing, from WoT to LoL, but from a sports-perspective, they are just anything but a fair and proper matchmaker/ranking system.

SofaKingFishyyNov 23, 20171 votes

So where in any of your comments does it explain why its just and fair to punish a team for someones absense? This make's zero sense. I understand we have to work as a team to win. But is that same team with me for the rest of my climbing? No. Everyone should be punished and rewarded accordingly, not as a whole. Makes absolute zero sense and makes the game un fun. So because some person decides to say fuck it, I have to suffer? some 12 year old across united states is having a bad day and wants people to feel his pain and I'm on his team? lol. get real. You'll never get me to see any other point so don't try. This game has a great foundation and I love the competitive edge behind it but the ranking system blows.

ChermorgNov 23, 20171 votes

Statistically speaking, there is more chance of an AFK or Leaver in the enemy team than on yours. Do you also want to not win LP or loot when you win a game against an enemy team with a Leaver?

Plus, this kind of system to waive losses if a teammate AFKs would encourage abusive behaviors such as "well if I convince them to AFK I won't lose so let me troll them to get them to leave".

AterpaterNov 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Statistically speaking, there is more chance of an AFK or Leaver in the enemy team than on yours. Do you also want to not win LP or loot when you win a game against an enemy team with a Leaver?

Plus, this kind of system to waive losses if a teammate AFKs would encourage abusive behaviors such as "well if I convince them to AFK I won't lose so let me troll them to get them to leave".

There are different solutions for this AFK problem. Imo the system in DotA is much better than in LoL, though it isn't perfect either. It goes like this: When somebody goes AFK, the ranked match doesn't matter anymore. Anybody can leave without consequencies or win/lose without any change in MMR. But the AFKer will get a pretty severe punishment so it doesn't worth to exploit the system at all. The problem is, that when somebody AFKing simply to troll their team, they can just move a bit from time to time, or run around the map doing nothing and the system won't catch them...

SofaKingFishyyNov 23, 20171 votes

Is DOTA better than LOL in terms of the ranking system?

AterpaterNov 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Is DOTA better than LOL in terms of the ranking system?

I would say a bit better. There's no divisions just a pure MMR rating what isn't hidden. In matchmaking your experience and individual performance is calculated too. And there're some other advantages. But it has its own problems, in some cases similar to LoL, so I wouldn't say it's significantly better at all. It just deals with some issues a bit better. And they're about to implement a lot of changes to the ranking system now, but I'm not familiar with the new system yet so I can't say anything.

(Btw at the same tome HotS advertises that in 2018 they will start a system based on individual performance but no details yet. So it's hard to judge these systems atm...)