Boards›Player Behavior

Perm Ban

Unsunglegends··0 votes·3,743 views

So I guess I received a perm ban for being toxic. Fair enough. I know I accepted the terms to play the game, but I did some research. I believe the First Amendment protects me from the ban you unlawfully gave me. According to the first amendment... and I am paraphrasing of course; no law shall be made for abridging freedom of speech. This means that League is not above the law; therefore, they should not be able to punish people for what they have said.

Now let me explain myself, was I toxic? Sure. I said things harshly and mean, and sometimes I should not have said anything, I will admit that. However, the tribunal system only shows one side of the story. The words of course. It does not show the actions that take place in the game, to see what causes people to say what they say. I am sure you all have heard that actions speak louder than words.

So I am banned, for what I have said, and trolls are able to troll on for free. This includes actions of course, such as to name a few; intentional feeding, afk, picking a mid lane champ after mid was selected, picking out of order, or my favorite, "preferred role or FEED". I am sure you have all seen at least once of these types of people before, and many of you let them slide and do not report them for this behavior. With the report system the way it is, it does not really ban the players for the actions that they take.

Now here comes me, tough kid, not one to take crap from anybody (little bit of background of me), I blow up because not only do they tend to be terrible at that role, but they force someone else to be a team player and try to work with these people. If you were to ask me, THAT IS THE DEFENITION OF TOXIC. Not the words people say, but the actions that they perform. People will have different opinions of this, and I am sure there will be those who respond and say you got banned for a good reason. But you are forgetting the fact that my words do not make me a terrible TEAM player. This is a TEAM game. I do not blow up on people unless they start something with me first.

Now RIOT and players, I know very well that there is a mute button. However, If the mute button were to function properly, then they should have muted me if they did not like what I had to say. Its not just me who should have muted them, they should have muted me. Let me rap this rant up. Its simple riot, you should not ban players for the things they say, cursing wise, or saying they suck. I know it does not win games, but you have developed a mute button in your game for a reason. Mute and move on, then why do you (riot) feel that you have the rights to ban people who speak against trolls and people who start things in the first place. I think I have the right to an answer, My point? Take the MUTE BUTTON out of your game, because it obviously does not serve a purpose.

Thanks for reading, I do not wake up in the morning looking to troll someone or put someone down, you banned the wrong person. I used salty language, and I am sorry for that, I am sorry for being passionate and competitive. However, I do have my freedom of speech, and their is a mute button. Please think this ban over, Unsunglegends

154 Comments

Zombiemaster11 votes

Freedom of Speech!!!!!”

Doesn’t apply. No really. If we’re talking about American law, the First Amendment only applies to the government making laws that prohibit speech and, even then, freedom of speech isn’t absolute. For example, you can’t incite a riot, plan to kill the president or yell fire in a crowded theater.

Also, there’s nothing in the First Amendment that protects you from the consequences of your speech. People are fired all the time for making derogatory comments about their employer. My workplace, for example, has a social media policy that says that I can be terminated for badmouthing the company. They don’t ask for passwords and access as some companies have been known to do, but it wouldn’t be all that difficult to find me on the internet, knowing my real name, phone number and address.

From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base.

Basically, your freedom of speech is not being violated here.

EDIT: A few other things to note:

1.) What other players are doing is no excuse for your own poor behavior. Riot's stance has always been that retaliating against toxic behavior with your own toxic behavior is unacceptable, as it only makes the situation worse, especially for the other players on your team.

2.) The mute button also isn't an excuse for you to say whatever you want and then say "If you don't like it, then mute me." If someone has muted you, then the damage has already been done and they have reason to report you (provided it is an actual valid reason). The mute button is there to prevent further verbal harassment in that particular game, but the report button is there to prevent such behavior in future games.

Unsunglegends1 votes

You guys are absolutely right, it does have limitations for sure, but you truly compare this game to such a drastic measure as to something such as yelling fire in a theater? I am so sorry, I did not realize the amount of lives I have put into danger. lol

Zombiemaster6 votes

{quoted}

You guys are absolutely right, it does have limitations for sure, but you truly compare this game to such a drastic measure as to something such as yelling fire in a theater? I am so sorry, I did not realize the amount of lives I have put into danger. lol

Not comparing it to that at all. It's being compared to the office work space situation. Freedom of speech only protects you from the government, but it doesn't have any authority on privately owned areas, and it just so happens that League of Legends is privately owned by Riot Games, so they have every legal right to control what is said on their property.

Unsunglegends1 votes

they own a website? that makes is property? people can play this game for free...without trespassing, Explain how that is property. IF it is property, then what I have bought on this game is MY property, and it should be returned from me. After all, why would they want a "toxic guy's" money. Am I Right? Or did they want my money...just not me.

Twiggles4 votes

They own the game, as well as the content in said game. Thus, yes. It is their property.

You didn't truly buy anything except RP. Even then, the RP still belongs to Riot as it is part of their game. RP can then be redeemed for skins, rune pages, etc. However, all of that is ALSO part of Riot's game and therefore their property.

Think of it this way. You rent a room in an apartment building. You pay to live there, but the building doesn't belong to you. Not even the room does. Nothing your landlord owns belongs to you. Only what you buy elsewhere does.

One day, another tenant in your building makes you mad by spreading ketchup all over the hallway outside your apartment. Instead of just reporting the problem to your landlord, you decide to express your anger by punching holes in your neighbor's wall. When your landlord finds out, you shouldn't be surprised when you get evicted. On top of that, you should certainly not expect to get any of your rent back.

Maybe the other tenant gets fined/evicted too, but that is irrelevant. You were out of line, and your landlord would be well within his rights to evict you. The same applies here, where Riot was well within their rights to ban you.

tl,Dr: Just another thread where someone thinks freedom of speech or the mute button entitles them to a reversed ban or a refund. Grow up.

Unsunglegends1 votes

We all could use some growing up. I like your stand point. But I did not punch in holes in the wall, nor have I purchased anything from my landlord? So your statement holds no ground. I get what you are saying, but there is a funny button that says PURCHASE. If it said DONATE you would be correct. However, you are wrong because the definition of Purchase means, acquire (something) by paying for it; buy. Or -- a hold or position on something for applying power advantageously, or the advantage gained by such application. So tell me sir/ma'am. Where do you stand now? Those RP Points are mine, just as much as the skins/champs. Be real now.

SlytherMinn1 votes

It's like a casino. They still own the chips and can kick you out at any time.

Unsunglegends1 votes

Yeah well I am ready to cash out.

SlytherMinn2 votes

You've already been blacklisted.

Twiggles4 votes

I've said my piece. The fact that you are intentionally ignoring my point only shows that you are beyond reason. Enjoy whatever you do next now that you've been rightfully (and lawfully despite your silly misgivings) banned.

GamerSlayer1 votes

I mean, you kinda do own the room when you rent it. You have certain rights that, at least, give you partial ownership. You can eat whatever you want, sleep there, watch TV, possibly have parties, etc. At the end of the day, those are not things the landlord would let you do, and by paying him, you are purchasing temporary ownership, to some degree of his land. How else, would you have the right to use his property like that? If it was just him owning the property and you slipping him money as part of a deal, he would have no need to uphold his end of the bargain because he would just be doing you a favor. Granted legally, I think you guys are probably correct, but morally, logically, and ideally none of those would be the case. I mean, I am not so sure that you don't own your copy of the game, so I don't know how you could argue against that, if you are a paying customer. If I walked into a restaurant, they could not tell me that I paid for the right to eat their eggs and take them away from me. I purchased a product, and unless the restaurant wants to commit fraud or theft, they must provide the product. The same should hold here.

Twiggles2 votes

I see your point here. Maybe it would have been better to use a restaurant example from the beginning.

You sit down and buy your meal at a fancy restaurant. However, one of the other patrons recognizes you as someone he really doesn't like and starts flicking peas from his meal at you while you're trying to eat. Having had enough after a while, you decide that notifying one of the serving staff or floor managers isn't a good enough idea. So you decide to whip your silverware at him instead. Now when he notifies the restaurant's management staff that you just beaned him in the eye with a spoon, you will likely get thrown out of the restaurant. In such a circumstance, you are not entitled to a refund even though you didn't finish your food. Hell, they probably wouldn't even wrap the rest of your food up for you. They'd just toss you out and put up a picture of you in the lobby telling the staff not to seat you. You contributed to a negative environment where that kind of behavior is absolutely not tolerated, and thus you were removed.

Same goes for people who make excessive noise or show themselves to be extreme distractions in a movie theater. In any theater I've been to (I know not all of them do this, but I think they should), someone who has to be escorted out by an usher/security is not entitled to getting their ticket money back.

In any business, someone who shows themselves to be a problem or disturbance to said business is liable to be removed and refused further service without reimbursement. This goes for apartments, restaurants, theaters, and also League of Legends. Hell, I've seen it happen several times at local carnivals and even higher end theme/amusement parks. You don't get a refund after shoving your way to the front of the line for the log flume ride or throwing your fried dough in someone's face. You get ejected from the park and told to stay out.

It's not fraud. It's not theft. It's simply business.

Unsunglegends1 votes

Business. You are forgetting something, I am not hurting anyone physically, nor a I causing any physical damage, such as punching holes in walls or flicking peas at people. LMAO. If I have effected someone mentally...then they are not going to survive out in the real world. Sigh. So sad. If you want to use a restaurant analogy...its more of the lines like this. I am sitting down at the restaurant and notice another person sitting across the room from me. I apparently made the wrong face at him and he called his waiter over their to get the owner of the restaurant. The owner (riot) comes to my table with out even being there to see what truly happened and he decides to kick me out. BAM! Perfect analogy.

meadow3 votes

{quoted}

Business. You are forgetting something, I am not hurting anyone physically, nor a I causing any physical damage, such as punching holes in walls or flicking peas at people. LMAO. If I have effected someone mentally...then they are not going to survive out in the real world.

There are bullies and other people who harass verbally only which drive people beyond the edge without having ever touched them once. It does not absolve them from any responsibility. Imagine someone insulting you repeatedly - without you or him touching you/him whatever for the whole day. Then the next day, then the day after.

Repeatedly. This is the real world in which people can harass you at school, at work, while travelling or at your home non-stop behind the computer screen.

Sigh. So sad. If you want to use a restaurant analogy...its more of the lines like this. I am sitting down at the restaurant and notice another person sitting across the room from me. I apparently made the wrong face at him and he called his waiter over their to get the owner of the restaurant. The owner (riot) comes to my table with out even being there to see what truly happened and he decides to kick me out. BAM! Perfect analogy.

Actually, Big Brother Camera captured you harassing the other customer upon which he calls the waiter which the owner comes to remove you after having seen the evidence thereof.

Ingame your actions are logged and if they deem that the reports are valid due proof of what you did, you are kicked out henceforth if it's severe enough to bypass the usual penalty tiers.

EvilDustMan5 votes

{quoted}

Business. You are forgetting something, I am not hurting anyone physically, nor a I causing any physical damage, such as punching holes in walls or flicking peas at people. LMAO. If I have effected someone mentally...then they are not going to survive out in the real world. Sigh. So sad. If you want to use a restaurant analogy...its more of the lines like this. I am sitting down at the restaurant and notice another person sitting across the room from me. I apparently made the wrong face at him and he called his waiter over their to get the owner of the restaurant. The owner (riot) comes to my table with out even being there to see what truly happened and he decides to kick me out. BAM! Perfect analogy.

No. What happened is the other person is trying to concentrate on eating. They are eating a particularly difficult dish and need to concentrate. You are a yappy dog. You start yapping loudly over the entire restaurant. You are asked to leave because yappy dogs are not wanted.

No one is offended, they are annoyed. No one has a thin skin, they are annoyed by yappy dogs.

Unsunglegends1 votes

You compared me to a yapping dog. Sounds toxic, you need a perm ban. Yet you have the chance to ignore the yappy dog (mute), but for whatever reason you did not. See the issue at hand yet?

EvilDustMan2 votes

{quoted}

You compared me to a yapping dog. Sounds toxic, you need a perm ban. Yet you have the chance to ignore the yappy dog (mute), but for whatever reason you did not. See the issue at hand yet?

You had the chance not to be an ass, but for whatever reason, you did not take it.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

MeilinII1 votes

[WHY IS VERBAL ABUSE PUNISHABLE IF THERE IS A MUTE BUTTON/LANGUAGE FILTER?](http:// https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/203066050-Tribunal-FAQ#h1q1) Players shouldn't need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player.

You should really read the support site more often, lol You are responsible for how you respond to trolls. If you can't mute and report without responding, then you're the problem. ^_^

Twiggles2 votes

The fact that you think this is a good analogy really speaks to me. It says: "Please ignore me, for I have no idea what I'm talking about and just want to whine and make a scene."

I think I'll take that advice. Besides, two other people as of this posting (Thank you 'EvilDustMan' and 'meadow') have already responded to this with essentially what I'd have said anyways. I'll finish by repeating something I already said in my first post in the vain hope that it will get through to you this time.

"Grow up."

Unsunglegends1 votes

[deleted]

Twiggles2 votes

You have every right to say what you want. However, you have to own the consequences of what you say. No rights have been infringed upon here. You are simply acting like an angry child who thinks throwing around a misunderstanding of the law will get him what he wants.

And me being a "punk ass" is the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw it. Good day to you, sir!

Unsunglegends1 votes

Like...report my comment. But call me a child. LOL okay big guy...you totally got me.

Unsunglegends1 votes

So the mute button is there? but when the chat long last the whole game...sometimes 45 minutes or more...what damage is done by then would be self inflicted...would you not agree?

Zombiemaster6 votes

I agree, to an extent. If a player is continually being damaged by what you say and they refuse to mute you, yes I would agree that they share the fault for the damage being done. However, that still doesn't excuse you from your own behavior. They still have the right to report you to help stop you from behaving like this in future games.

Unsunglegends1 votes

We can go in circles all day, I already said and agreed to salty language. Also, I said I do not wake up in the morning to ruin someone's day, but when the new champ select update comes out, and you HAVE TWO choices, you get your second choice and midway through the game you say " I wish I got top, I suck at ADC"...WTF. does that not deserve a lashing? that is asking for it..I mean honestly, you have two choices, and you pick what you suck at as your second. Enough said.

SlytherMinn6 votes

You're toxic and deserve your ban.

Unsunglegends2 votes

And you judge me from not even knowing me. What does that make you?

SlytherMinn6 votes

Able to read. Look at this thread for all the evidence anyone would need to know how toxic you are.

Zombiemaster3 votes

What does and doesn't deserve a lashing will be different from person to person, and personally I would say that it doesn't deserve one. Would I be angry that they made a stupid choice? Absolutely, but I wouldn't lash out at them. Again, this is going to change from person to person.

Honestly, though, it doesn't really matter what we believe, Riot makes the rules here and they simply ask us that, no matter what other people are doing, don't be a jerk. That's how I see it anyways. If people are being jerks to you or are making stupid decisions, you have every right to be angry and frustrated, Riot just doesn't want you to bring it into the game. If you see someone being a jerk or doing anything else considered "toxic," the best thing to do is mute them (if applicable) and report them after the game. If you bring your own negative behavior into the situation, all it will do is make the whole thing worse.

Lithium Rosa5 votes

I love reading those perma-banned salty threads. Watching toxic jerks suffer is pleasing.

TheSequelsRBad3 votes

I feel a little guilty for it, but I daily come here to read this threads.

It makes me happy to see that the game just got a little better.

PIMPSMOOTH4 votes

"was I toxic? Sure."

All anyone needs to know. Lata.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Colgate Gator4 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for reading, I do not wake up in the morning looking to troll someone or put someone down, you banned the wrong person. I used salty language, and I am sorry for that, I am sorry for being passionate and competitive. However, I do have my freedom of speech, and their is a mute button. Please think this ban over, Unsunglegends

Or you can consider not being a shithead to your teammates since it breaks the ToS you press "accept" to everytime there's a new patch.

I am passionate and competitive as well, but that doesn't give me the right to be an asshole to my fellow teammates just because I got exhasperated. There's a mute button yes, but where's your button for self restraint?

We don't have any obligation to put up with your fits of rage or have to impair 1/5 of our team's communication just because you can't keep your head over your shoulders. On the contrary, you have the obligation to not make other people's experience hell, but you did, and now you have punished for it no matter how hard you paraphrase the first amendment.

BarelyPaula3 votes

Hire a lawyer and sue their asses!

I also believe that since I pay for skins etc... they are my property. Since Riot has banned you, they've stolen your property, they should be forced to refund your skin purchases or remove your ban.

SlytherMinn5 votes

You can believe whatever you want, doesn't make it a fact. It's Riot's property and they can do whatever they want with it. You agree to these terms with each update and patch.

Zombiemaster7 votes

You might want to read the ToU. Basically, it states that you do not have any ownership of your account or anything that is a part of the account.

**IV. OWNERSHIP **...

NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO THE ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF RIOT GAMES. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NO CLAIM, RIGHT, TITLE, OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN THE GAME ASSETS, VIRTUAL ITEMS OR RIOT POINTS THAT YOU ACQUIRE, REGARDLESS OF THE CONSIDERATION OFFERED OR PAID IN EXCHANGE FOR RIOT POINTS OR VIRTUAL ITEMS. FURTHERMORE, RIOT GAMES SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY MANNER FOR THE DESTRUCTION, DELETION, MODIFICATION, IMPAIRMENT, “HACKING,” OR ANY OTHER DAMAGE OR LOSS OF ANY KIND CAUSED TO THE GAME ASSETS, VIRTUAL ITEMS OR RIOT POINTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE DELETION OF GAME ASSETS, VIRTUAL ITEMS OR RIOT POINTS UPON THE TERMINATION OR EXPIRATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT.

From the ToU, section IV

BarelyPaula1 votes

You are 100% right; however, I think that's entirely wrong. It's like renting an apartment, sure, I rent the account, but I buy lots of stuff to go in it. Thus, all the stuff I buy to go into my apartment is mine.

I realize ALL games do this, I find it's complete BS and broken. Sadly, no one wants to tackle it.

Zombiemaster2 votes

I don't think that's quite the right analogy. It's more like renting an apartment and then, instead of going out and buying lots of stuff to go in it, instead you rent that stuff from the apartment complex to put into your apartment. All that stuff you rented still belongs to your landlord, whereas if you went out and bought it, all of the stuff would be yours.

Unsunglegends1 votes

The problem is I am not renting the skins/RP. I am Purchasing them.

LukeTheSheppy3 votes

{quoted}

The problem is I am not renting the skins/RP. I am Purchasing them.

Sit down, sonny, time to read what you agreed to every patch.

B. Game Assets, Riot Points and Virtual Items. When using the Game, you may accumulate in-Game assets associated with your Account, including, without limitation, objects, artifacts, currency, items, equipment, and/or other value or status indicators (“Game Assets”) that reside on servers operated by Riot Games as data. You acknowledge and agree that such Game Assets are accumulated as part of your Account and therefore you shall have no ownership or other property interest in any of those Game Assets.

And before you say this doesn't apply to skins, it goes on to say:

_If you have a valid, active Account, you may participate in our Riot Points service offering, which is a redeemable point system that operates like virtual currency (“Riot Points”) used to license certain Game Assets that can be used while playing the Game, including, without limitation, special champions, champion “skins,” and boosts (“Virtual Items”). _

Thus identifying skins as game assets, and therefore you have no ownership.

If you seriously plan to bring suit against Riot, you're shit out of luck, as you agreed to not sue them due to any actions resulting from you violating the ToU, the EULA, or Privacy Policy.

XII. INDEMNIFICATION YOU HEREBY AGREE TO INDEMNIFY, DEFEND AND HOLD HARMLESS RIOT GAMES FROM AND AGAINST ANY AND ALL CLAIMS, LAWSUITS, DAMAGES, LOSSES, LIABILITIES AND COSTS (INCLUDING ATTORNEYS’ FEES) THAT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY ARISE OR RESULT FROM YOUR USE OR MISUSE OF THE PROPERTIES, OR ANY VIOLATION BY YOU OF ANY OF THE PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, THE EULA OR THE PRIVACY POLICY. Riot Games reserves the right, at its own expense and in its sole and absolute discretion, to assume the exclusive defense and control of any matter otherwise subject to indemnification by you, in which event you will cooperate with Riot Games in asserting any available defenses.

And before you claim you didn't violate it, refer to Article V, sections C and E, as follows:

_V. CODE OF CONDUCT While using any of the Properties, you agree to comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. You also agree to comply with certain additional rules that govern your use of the Properties (the "Code of Conduct"). The Code of Conduct is not meant to be exhaustive, and Riot Games reserves the right to modify this Code of Conduct at any time, as well as take appropriate disciplinary measures including Account termination and deletion to protect the integrity and spirit of the Properties, regardless of whether a specific behavior is listed here as prohibited. In addition to this Code of Conduct, please see the Summoner’s Code for additional guidance on exemplary game-play behavior. The following are examples of behavior that warrant disciplinary measures:

C. Harassing, stalking, or threatening any other users in the Game;

E. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including, but not limited to, language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;_

In conclusion, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. Learn to read the ToU.

Unsunglegends1 votes

Sonny huh? A legal leg to stand on, The word says purchase. Read the definition of Purchase, then post your comment.

LukeTheSheppy2 votes

{quoted}

Sonny huh? A legal leg to stand on, The word says purchase. Read the definition of Purchase, then post your comment.

You acknowledge and agree that such Game Assets are accumulated as part of your Account and therefore you shall have no ownership or other property interest in any of those Game Assets.

This includes Riot points, the virtual currency of League of Legends.

Unsunglegends1 votes

Then the Purchase RP needs to be changed to RENT/DONATE for RP. Until then, I am owed my cash back, or account. They can choose

PIMPSMOOTH3 votes

{quoted}

Then the Purchase RP needs to be changed to RENT/DONATE for RP. Until then, I am owed my cash back, or account. They can choose

https://media.giphy.com/media/8WIJHInfWP6/giphy.gif

GamerSlayer1 votes

Except, that would also be convoluted.

LukeTheSheppy3 votes

{quoted}

Then the Purchase RP needs to be changed to RENT/DONATE for RP. Until then, I am owed my cash back, or account. They can choose

No you aren't. How do you plan on getting it back? Lawsuit? You agreed not to sue them.

Surr20plz1 votes

{quoted}

You might want to read the ToU. Basically, it states that you do not have any ownership of your account or anything that is a part of the account.

From the ToU, section IV

I'm pretty sure there are laws that supersede this though, may vary from state to state. Someone made a post once about how you can get your money back from them because regardless of their TOS it's a violation of actual law to take your stuff.

Zombiemaster1 votes

It may be a violation of actual law to take our stuff, but the thing is, they didn't actually take our stuff. When we signed up to make an account, we agreed that we had no ownership of the account or anything tied to it. Legally, because of the ToU, Riot owns all of our accounts, and anything that is tied to our accounts. They are simply allowing us to use them.

Now, mind you, I'm no expert in laws or anything like that, this is just how I view this based on what I have read. I could completely be wrong about all of this. Also, I would like to read that post, as it seems very interesting to me.

Surr20plz1 votes

{quoted}

It may be a violation of actual law to take our stuff, but the thing is, they didn't actually take our stuff. When we signed up to make an account, we agreed that we had no ownership of the account or anything tied to it. Legally, because of the ToU, Riot owns all of our accounts, and anything that is tied to our accounts. They are simply allowing us to use them.

Now, mind you, I'm no expert in laws or anything like that, this is just how I view this based on what I have read. I could completely be wrong about all of this. Also, I would like to read that post, as it seems very interesting to me.

It was on the old forums. It was a very detailed "How to" post in the case of you being perma-banned and how to get your money back from them. It may also have been reliant on you having used a credit card? Again I read this a long time ago but it seemed legit. I don't plan on getting perma-banned but from what the post said it seemed like you do have legal recourse regardless of their TOU says. A ToU is only as legit as it can be while abiding by actual laws. You can't just be like ToU said I could drown your children and you have no recourse! Cause TOU BUDDAY!

You get what I mean.

Zombiemaster1 votes

Yeah, I definitely get what you mean.

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