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Banned for 14 days, I wanna make some things clear

fuLLbattLeRattLe··2 votes·814 views

I was banned for 14 days immediately after a game because of things I said. Wasn't any hate speech but I did call the troll/leaver a %%%. I wanna make a few points. In this society that we are in today, we have been teaching everybody to run away and take offense to everything even words. That is straight bullshit. Why are you sugar coating life lesson and setting others up for failure in real life? If someone calls someone something they won't have someone to run to. I'm a military member and foul mouths are everywhere, you gotta learn to look past it and learn from it. Not hide in a fake reality and a fake "tribunal" that acts as judge,jury, and executioner? That's communism to me I don't know about everyone else. Don't we have a goddamn freedom of speech? There is a mute button for a reason. You choose to listen to who you want to listen to. Another thing, there is this theory of CAUSE and EFFECT and there are always two sides to a story. If a fucking douchebag says this game is over, goes to base, dances, and starts eating his dinner while people are in their promos. Someone is bound to get really upset and say things. Why are these players not punished as bad? Are you encouraging others to rather troll than express how they feel? No wonder why people are leaving this game. Ive got a lot more things to say but I don't think people here will be able to go 5 more minutes without going to someone to cry about words. This is what our society has come to.

28 Comments

ModUlanopo10 votes

In this society that we are in today, we have been teaching everybody to run away and take offense to everything even words.

No one is "running away" from anything. People are simply standing up to bullies and jerks.

Sorin Alucard2 votes

{quoted}

No one is "running away" from anything. People are simply standing up to bullies and jerks.

I do have to question though why there is chat emphasized punishment over in-game actions? Yes, some people have savage words but we have mute? We have chat restrictions? If we have these tools why isn't there more focus on chat restriction punishments for chat offenses instead of of our current system that just escalates into bans?

I think we'd all feel better if a person throwing 2 games without talking results in punishment as quickly as current insults do. I think they should be divided. For instance you're bad mouthed and talk trash to your allies: keep doing it and you'll never talk in game and will be limited on comms for as long as you continue to be verbally unpleasant. This could have a couple more chat restriction stages added before you're perma-banned from using all chat and only limited to X chat posts per game (including pre and post)

I think the current algorithms could easily be used for this, then resources could be put into researching reports where people directly ruin games by throwing and trolling.

PS I'm all for making the rift better anyway we can and don't condone flaming allies. I just believe there's power in the players' hands to ignore them and ostracize them. However we all have to rely on Riot only to remove trolling from the game, so I think a focus shift would greatly benefit the community.

Chermorg4 votes

It's not. 90% of chat offenses (those without hate speech/encouraging self harm/etc) start at a 10 game chat restriction, then more chat restrictions, then a 14 day ban, then permanent.

Gameplay offenses start at a 14 day ban (aside from AFK/leave, that's a different monster).

The issue with gameplay offenses is there's not yet a reliable way to determine it with good accuracy from a computer program. Chat can be punished in less than a minute because computers are very good at finding patterns in language. Finding patterns in hundreds of data points (from statistics in game, to heatmaps of clicks/keystrokes, and more) is something that's virtually impossible at this time in computer science.

Sure, they could focus the system on a couple datapoints, but which datapoints can be combined to give a 99.99%+ accuracy of it being an offense? I can't think of any way that it can other than what they have implemented now. Builds 3+ of the same item and died 10+ times? Probably an offense. That already gets punished very quickly.

If we are to believe Riot, they're focusing heavily on gameplay offenses right now. They're trying. It just takes human-hours to gather data, test solutions, find out why the solutions are throwing false positives and/or not catching the negatives, fix it, gather more data, test again... And trolls are constantly evolving, so it's hard to keep up probably.

I'm by no means trying to defend Riot to the end, but I just think that unless you have a large background in computer science and have a solution that Riot hasn't tried before; we shouldn't be going around claiming they're not doing everything they can to combat gameplay offenses.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

{quoted}

It's not. 90% of chat offenses (those without hate speech/encouraging self harm/etc) start at a 10 game chat restriction, then more chat restrictions, then a 14 day ban, then permanent.

Gameplay offenses start at a 14 day ban (aside from AFK/leave, that's a different monster).

The issue with gameplay offenses is there's not yet a reliable way to determine it with good accuracy from a computer program. Chat can be punished in less than a minute because computers are very good at finding patterns in language. Finding patterns in hundreds of data points (from statistics in game, to heatmaps of clicks/keystrokes, and more) is something that's virtually impossible at this time in computer science.

Sure, they could focus the system on a couple datapoints, but which datapoints can be combined to give a 99.99%+ accuracy of it being an offense? I can't think of any way that it can other than what they have implemented now. Builds 3+ of the same item and died 10+ times? Probably an offense. That already gets punished very quickly.

If we are to believe Riot, they're focusing heavily on gameplay offenses right now. They're trying. It just takes human-hours to gather data, test solutions, find out why the solutions are throwing false positives and/or not catching the negatives, fix it, gather more data, test again... And trolls are constantly evolving, so it's hard to keep up probably.

I'm by no means trying to defend Riot to the end, but I just think that unless you have a large background in computer science and have a solution that Riot hasn't tried before; we shouldn't be going around claiming they're not doing everything they can to combat gameplay offenses.

Lol I do

I completely understand the time needed to handle their work. I support that their agenda is to make the game a better experience for the players that don't want to waste time fighting. Riot is a pretty awesome game company imo

I personally haven't seen much of what they've said they're working on relating to trolling, if you have more links that would be helpful. My purpose in this to be feedback. There's nothing that says I can't ask questions. More knowledge = more perspective. I don't mind possible correction, as long as its coming from a correct source.

I have nothing personal against you Chermorg, but you've proven to be recently unreliable in your perspectives

Chermorg1 votes

The important part of my statement was:

"unless you have a large background in computer science and have a solution that Riot hasn't tried before.

I'm waiting to see your solution to the problem that they haven't tried.

Further, your inability to parse the plain response of "we can't punish for gameplay offenses before the game starts because there's no record of an offense that hasn't happened yet" doesn't mean I'm unreliable in my perspectives. It means you're unwilling to accept that Riot isn't North Korea and doesn't punish people for things they have yet to do.

General Esdeath 1 votes

It's not, it's just easier to prove someone said something when we have in game chat logs, rather than determining if that 0/5 Soraka was inting or just having a bad game

ModUlanopo1 votes

However we all have to rely on Riot only to remove trolling from the game, so I think a focus shift would greatly benefit the community.

I think Chermorg below was pretty spot-on regarding some of the challenges associated with the programming aspects of behavior systems, so I'm going to focus on the social aspects.

I wrote this what seems like a million years ago and I think the core concept remains relevant to the question you're asking.

Most people come to the boards believing they represent the average League player, when there are probably about four different archetypes. I have yet to see someone suggest a viable definition of "toxic" that would satisfy more than just their subgroup. It's interesting - and frustrating - for me as an Arbiter to watch the interplay within Riot between the Gameplay and Behavior teams. They're just as subject to this sort of disconnect as everyone else, even though Gameplay almost always wins (which is a post for another day).

"I want League to look more like me" is understandable from a personal perspective, but it's highly problematic as policy.

I think we'd all feel better if a person throwing 2 games without talking results in punishment as quickly as current insults do.

I think people are awfully quick to label something as "throwing".

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Chermorg's response wasn't motivated by altruism or true discussion. He didn't answer anything. By deferring to him to you didn't answer anything either. I read your post and I didn't feel it had any context.

I'm only thinking of "throwing" in the context Riot says throwing would be Im not trying to make league look like me I wasn't asking for players' views, I want Riot's

So in regards to Riot's algorithms and teams working on behavior

Either A.) Resources weren't allocated enough and their current system is how they made due B.) Resources were allocated, current system is temp, new one isn't ready C.) Resources were allocated only for current system; no future plans of change D.) Current system is status quo because their department can't feasibly handle a new ban system E.) Other F.)You don't know or G.) You do know but aren't allowed to disclose

So by bringing my little, limited viewpoint, I was asking you, the Arbiter, if you had solid insight as to what Riot feels about banning system status quo as a clarification for my own personal viewpoints to be checked against. I gave my views as a way of clarifying where my questions were coming from, not to bullying out my opinion as "what Riot should do".

Are they satisfied with it? Do they feel players are slipping through the cracks? Do they want to expand the current system but are struggling with parameters? Is it really the sheer difficulty preventing them from making it better? Do they plan on talking about the topic more?

If you don't know that's fine, but an actual answer to my actual questions is a lot better than this

"I want League to look more like me" is understandable from a personal perspective, but it's highly problematic as policy.

I think people are awfully quick to label something as "throwing".

I don't think you meant it, but your answer came off a bit condescending

ModWulf Helhammer5 votes

Wasn't any hate speech

Hmm, ok. Some chat logs would be nice to check that for sure, but I'll give it the bene...

but I did call the troll/leaver a %%%.

Hahahahahahahaha! You do understand what it means when a word is censored on the boards like that?

linkmastr0014 votes

Obligatory: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png

fuLLbattLeRattLe1 votes

Lol that works if everybody else in game felt the same way but I was not the only one upset about getting trolled. I was just more vocal. I'm not saying I was right. I'm saying that I am not the only person at fault. If you can't take words. That's your fault

Poske4 votes

This is a video game not a real life

archerno13 votes

Eh you mentioned "Freedom of speech". You completely ruined your melodramatic post with nonsense. Do they REALLY not teach u in school that Freedom of Speech applies to government and not to private business?

fuLLbattLeRattLe1 votes

So you're telling me that in a private business someone can call me whatever they want? And if I'm catching the drift I think I'll join the force and say that you calling me melodramatic hurts my feelings :(. Psh, I ain't being dramatic. My only point in trying to say is that riot jumped the gun. If I was baited to say bad words to get banned then that should be a category of its own. All in all I know I said some offensive words. It's life. People like you are who provoke things to get worse and make people feel less of themselves and then victimize yourself in the end. Smh.

archerno13 votes

{quoted}

So you're telling me that in a private business someone can call me whatever they want? And if I'm catching the drift I think I'll join the force and say that you calling me melodramatic hurts my feelings :(. Psh, I ain't being dramatic. My only point in trying to say is that riot jumped the gun. If I was baited to say bad words to get banned then that should be a category of its own. All in all I know I said some offensive words. It's life. People like you are who provoke things to get worse and make people feel less of themselves and then victimize yourself in the end. Smh.

U werent baited to do anything. Someone bothering u in chat, mute him. Whats so hard about that? Why do u need to retaliate?

fuLLbattLeRattLe1 votes
  1. I did mute him, the other play is the one who should have just muted.
  2. If someone is being an asshole then you tell them he's being an asshole. And that's what I did. Then muted. So my words will get me fucked up but if I chose to keep quiet and do what I want more than likely I'll be okay. Just like a citizen calling a habitual sex offender all the dirtiest words in the world is a no-go but if he discreetly does the awful things he does that effects everybody and does not get caught then we still have a peaceful world?
archerno14 votes

{quoted}

  1. I did mute him, the other play is the one who should have just muted.
  2. If someone is being an asshole then you tell them he's being an asshole. And that's what I did. Then muted. So my words will get me fucked up but if I chose to keep quiet and do what I want more than likely I'll be okay. Just like a citizen calling a habitual sex offender all the dirtiest words in the world is a no-go but if he discreetly does the awful things he does that effects everybody and does not get caught then we still have a peaceful world?

I dont understand that analogy u presented. And i dont see how sex offender have anything to do with you being toxic. Its simple, if someone is being asshole, mute him and report him. Dont tell him he is asshole. Whats so complicated about that?

Vyycan1 votes

Your grammar is pretty complicated I'll say that :^)

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

Your grammar is pretty complicated I'll say that :^)

Well its my third language so, i say its pretty good.

Sorin Alucard3 votes

I have to agree that the system is currently skewed. Its cool if Riot doesn't want certain language being used in game (kids do play and watch after all) but language is also contextual. The mute button and chat restrictions should be the 2 things that handle foul mouthed players, not an algorithm for detecting specific words. I think most players agree that the report system is highly in favor of silent trolling atm. As long as you don't talk you can ruin way more games before punishment than from typing *f a g 2 times in a day. If someone wants to ruin a game and lower risk of punishment all they have to do is adapt and forego chat. Its silly.

I suggest mute option pre-game, in-game, and post-game. The highest punishment for foul language should be chat restrictions. Problem solved.

Then you can put resources into looking for true trolls. I'd rather have a 13 year old spewing racial slurs I can mute and keep playing than a troll who afk/ints/throws the game on purpose. I really can't fathom how the verbal train became priority for the whole report system when you already have X tools to ignore stupid comments.

Bans should be saved for those who don't want to play, not those who just need the proverbial duct tape over mouth

EvilDustMan2 votes

{quoted}

That's communism to me I don't know about everyone else.

Pfffffffft.

Pfffffffffffffffft.

Pffffffffft.

WinBoat2 votes

I hate how these people don't use the "mute" button to mute a toxic person. The mute button is nearly useless to be honest. People of hate, and racist people, and other hate groups should be banned. But a toxic person shit talking? I don't think it's ban worthy in a video game.

Riot somehow needs to make the mute button more relevant. Maybe have the system detector detect something that is bad without the need of a game report, and off in big screen letters during game "mute this player" or something lol....

But nope, people wont ban toxic people, they will fuel the fire to get the toxic person banned.

Again, hate speech, racism, homophobia, all that stuff should be banned without question. But honestly in all, you should try to be positive, not be toxic. It sucks, but thats life.

Drugoth1 votes

I've got a pretty good guess what that filtered word is, pretty sure that word is considered hate speech man. If someone is legitimately trolling or afking then just report them after the game. Calling them out and saying awful things to them is exactly what they want you to do. Hasn't anyone ever taught you not to feed trolls?

fuLLbattLeRattLe1 votes

I forgot mention. I agree with it all. I know i said some things that were over the line. Been playing since the beginning. But this was the tilting point for me. Everybody knows that most people are so eager to leave the game when it's over after someone ruins it and forgets to report them. And if that's the case why not have someone supervise every game? Idk. The whole system is broken and sometimes I can't wait to see this game dissolve from the exiting of players and customers. And as soon as I get unbanned I'll do a trial of muting everyone and doing what I want and when I want because obviously ruining ranked games for everyone because of your feelings is more acceptable than words. Cant get rid of the problem without knowing the source. But oh well.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Also

Hooah

fuLLbattLeRattLe2 votes

mothafkn HOOAH BROTHER!

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Why are you trying so hard over an internet game....

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Chermorg, we've been down this road before. I'm not getting baited into another discussion where you ignore what's put in front of you just to continue pushing new thoughts on your perspective. You make too many assumptions and insinuations.

My questions weren't even posed to you, so all I'm seeing is you attempting to heal your ego from recent feedback you didn't like.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" - Mark Twain

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