My email to riot on player behavior (posted here under riots suggestion.

FallenSpartan··3 votes·538 views

Initial disclaimer that I am not a writer or that good at articulating thoughts because things like this require a huge mess of multiple layered ideas. This is my email I sent to riot about a way to deal with what I deem to be one of the more pressing issues in league of legends in terms of player behavior.

"Alright, I understand riots plan of giving things to players who are not toxic, but that doesn't stop people who don't care about online trinkets. Toxic players don't have large built up attachment to their account because they know one day they will get banned. I am sure you have seen people in your own ranked games do things like soft afk (always splitting till death, not participating in fights but just standing on the edge), intentional feeding, typing "I'm done" or something to the effect. The list goes on.

I feel like this just isn't being addressed as much as verbal abuse in league of legends. I get verbal abuse is cut and dry and easier to weed out, but its more of an automatic system at this point because of your larger player base. But personally and I know this is anecdotal, I would rather have my teammates calling me every slur in the book than soft afk or stop attempting to win. Its no contest. If the chat filter wasn't enough you have the mute ping and chat function so they can continue to flame without it clogging up the chat. I have surveyed my friends in the more competitive range plat-challenger about which they prefer. Every single time they'd rather have them try to win and flame than soft afk and "be nice".I get its harder to lock down instances of this because some people are victims and mass report every game for every transgression. But when a clear cut case of someone running it down or soft afking ("I'm done") is established the punishment needs to be a banger.

Which is where my plan is to restrict ranked behind either normal draft or normal blind WINS. I know you have talked about not wanting a certain queue to be prisoner island, but notice i said WIN not just a game. Regardless of what happens in game, these players have to play to WIN. You guys would probably come up with a different number but depending on how frequent I get these people in game I have said anywhere from 50-100 normal wins before being let back into ranked(also these people have no chat option at all instead of your normal 3/5 starting +1 every 4 minutes) This exposes these players to people who don't take the game as serious('its just a normal lol') so they really get their nose rubbed in their own behavior and have the 1st hand experience of how that makes other feel.

This doesn't exactly stop all toxicity, I'm not god and I don't expect toxicity to ever go completely away in any competitive game. This might initially make normal blind/draft (or a separate normal q for dick heads) slightly more unpleasant, but if the punishment was harsh enough, I believe these people would swallow their pride as to not be subjected to the horror of playing to win in a normal game. This direction of player punishment I think isn't as heavy handed as it first seems either. Because a temp ban/perma ban just means currently logging on the smurf account to continue the behavior where the stakes are even lower(if that's possible) or just buying another account for 20$. So I feel as though those two methods are totally ineffective in dealing with toxic behavior(see tyler1 20 accounts permas before being actually dealt with, the L9 toxic EUW people etc etc). Leveling up an account or buying one is just enough of an annoyance to where I think they would actually play the normal games (because they still get IPfor more champs runes).

I really think you guys can come down harder on things that actually ruin the game, I don't care about e-fame for this, this isn't going on reddit, I'll physically or digitally sign away any rights to this plan if that's an issue I just want to see the game improve in the ranked ladder. Any feedback would be great, test it internally somehow, or do it in very very clear cut and dry cases and go from there, I think the program would be more effective if you DON'T announce it and let word of mouth spread as fear of the hammer might be a greater motivator than the hammer itself. Thank you for reading."

Their response "Hey there,

To be honest, we get a lot of complaints about our IFS system, and we get even more not-so-thought-out comments on how we could make our system better. I am not going to lie, I thought this proposal would be one of them, but I think this is actually one of the most solid suggestions I have ever read regarding the fact. I'm in high Plat, and I totally agree with your assessment that I would rather have a negative person than someone who is not trying to win. This can definitely change from person to person, though, depending on how competitive they are and how certain language can affect them, but personally, I agree. That being said, I often really go out of my way to investigate reports of griefing (an umbrella term for what most of what you mentioned) but it is just so tough to confirm. At a certain point, it is very easy to say "oh, that person is inting", or if they say "I'm trolling in chat" we can punish them, but it can be so tough to be 100% certain that someone is griefing instead of just having a bad game. On the players that we do audit to be griefing, we come down hard on. We will 2-week or permanently suspend them. However, as you alluded to, many players don't even know that we do this, and I believe that them knowing that we punish this type of behavior, would be more useful in combating the behavior than the punishment itself. If we could deal with this a bit better, your system might work very well, in tandem with our current systems!

I think this idea is really interesting, but unfortunately I can't pass feedback reports directly to the development team, but I recommend posting to the Boards. I know you wanted to try to keep this private, but the team is always looking at the Boards to get a feel for things players think could be improved.

You can find the Player Behavior Boards here:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation

Thanks a bunch for sharing your idea! Please let me know if you have any other questions." I left his name out in case he didn't want to be directly associated with this, if this person reads this forum post as well and wants to identify themselves as the riot employee who responded then they are free to do so.

Feedback is appreciated and if you require any further context or explanation I will try to clear up my rambling. I really want to see the ranked ladder change, and if this is implemented and and works, I think it could give insight on how to deal with toxic behavior in other game modes.

16 Comments

coback2 votes

Tl:dr

FallenSpartan2 votes

I doubt the solution to player behavior is gonna be shorter than 6 mediocre paragraphs, I encourage you to read it if you have the time.

AraMoOse1 votes

{quoted}

I doubt the solution to player behavior is gonna be shorter than 6 mediocre paragraphs, I encourage you to read it if you have the time.

TL:DR Requiring punished persons to obtain a certain amount of normal WINS before being able to queue back into ranked could be a good way to alter behaviors in a positive way.

It really isn't that hard to do. Give your ideas enough respect to make them accessible to as many people as possible.

And give people enough respect to not have them read 6 paragraphs without knowing if it is likely to be a waste of their time.

I kind of like the idea as well, and I've heard a LOT of crappy ideas.

Zyorhist2 votes

its actually a really good idea. This actually solves the only problem I have with players and this is coming from way down in silver. Toxic people can be dealt with but the lack of effort is where I get upset with people and I think this would be useful to helping with that problem. There is nothing worse than trying with everything you got to win and seeing some random player soloing baron because they don't want to try to win.

FallenSpartan2 votes

Refusing to group is usually the number one, you get the type of player who says "games over" when it very clearly is not. These players would rather be right about losing the game than be proven wrong and win the game. Ego is a huge issue in this game, and it gets worse the higher you go up, as the higher you go the less mistakes you can make overall.

The other type that says "games over" are the people who have a fragile sense of self worth and "could have won this" if only they "had tried" even though they clearly have the worst score on the team and consistently performed badly.

I don't mind if someone goes 0-5, but just acknowledge you don't have the correct mind frame for this one game and accept help from other players on what is needed to win that game. I fully understand tensions are high when someone does bad, but when someone says "don't leave your turret" don't get salty and then soft afk to protect your ego.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Excellent suggestion

archerno11 votes

Ranked is no different from normal, i dont see why should anyone be restricted to normal...

FallenSpartan1 votes

It very much is, ranked is supposed to be your attempt at pushing to the highest elo possible, using the best tactics, champions, strategies, and mindset. To those who don't want to do that, there are 3-4 other games modes where you can mess around in. Ranked has end of season rewards for that very reason.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

It very much is, ranked is supposed to be your attempt at pushing to the highest elo possible, using the best tactics, champions, strategies, and mindset. To those who don't want to do that, there are 3-4 other games modes where you can mess around in. Ranked has end of season rewards for that very reason.

No. Thats wrong view of ranked. Ranked shouldnt be played different from normal or any other mode. Ranked system is there to evaluate you based on your playstyle and skill. You arent supposed to be good to play ranked, ranked is supposed to tell you how good u are. Normal is there for people that dont want to know their rank, that dont care about it.

Look at it like going to school, one school has grading , one doesnt. In both you study same subjects equally, only one evaluates you. But they are no different.

FallenSpartan1 votes

People play ranked and normals wildly different. Ranked is easily taken more serious than normal games. Just because you PERSONALLY don't choose to take it serious, doesn't mean the 9 others in your game are trying to take it serious. Ranked by definition is taking the game serious you are being competitive. The definition of compete is "verb (used without object), competed, competing. 1. to strive to outdo another for acknowledgment, a prize, supremacy, profit, etc.; engage in a contest;" Also if you personally don't care about ranked/normals, then why queue for ranked at all? If you're taking it less seriously than your allies you are probably experiencing more flame than if you were to queue for a normal game.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

People play ranked and normals wildly different. Ranked is easily taken more serious than normal games. Just because you PERSONALLY don't choose to take it serious, doesn't mean the 9 others in your game are trying to take it serious. Ranked by definition is taking the game serious you are being competitive. The definition of compete is "verb (used without object), competed, competing. 1. to strive to outdo another for acknowledgment, a prize, supremacy, profit, etc.; engage in a contest;" Also if you personally don't care about ranked/normals, then why queue for ranked at all? If you're taking it less seriously than your allies you are probably experiencing more flame than if you were to queue for a normal game.

What people? People in normal draft follow meta way more than in ranked. They equally try to win. They equally flame. They equally troll. Same rules apply in normal and ranked, 0 difference.

FallenSpartan1 votes

I'm sorry you feel that way, but ranked has more stakes you're playing for, the border, the acknowledgement, the icon, the skin etc. This is an attempt to to punish people who troll in ranked specifically, which is, if you aren't taking ranked seriously, then go to normals.

alasarcher1 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry you feel that way, but ranked has more stakes you're playing for, the border, the acknowledgement, the icon, the skin etc. This is an attempt to to punish people who troll in ranked specifically, which is, if you aren't taking ranked seriously, then go to normals.

Actually ever since i stopped taking ranked seriously i started doing better because i dint play under any pressure and i suggest everyone to stop taking ranked too serious and to relax and have fun. Im archerno1(gonna upvote u tho so u dont think im logging different acc to downvote u, was just making my own thread)

FallenSpartan1 votes

When i say "take ranked serious" i am saying punish people who actively work towards winning, by running it down, or not grouping, very deliberate acts of not wanting to win. Not so much oh X player didnt build x because usually that subjective. I am sure you have lost a game due to a player saying "X doesn't deserve to win" or "games over /ff vote" and the like, I myself have been guilty of this in the past as I am sure everyone has at some point.

alasarcher1 votes

{quoted}

When i say "take ranked serious" i am saying punish people who actively work towards winning, by running it down, or not grouping, very deliberate acts of not wanting to win. Not so much oh X player didnt build x because usually that subjective. I am sure you have lost a game due to a player saying "X doesn't deserve to win" or "games over /ff vote" and the like, I myself have been guilty of this in the past as I am sure everyone has at some point.

Those people should be punished differently, not be crammed in normal out of the way

FallenSpartan1 votes

If they are queuing for ranked they care about something in the game mode. So they would want to get out of the normal game prison, because people take normals way less seriously than ranked. The idea is to subject them to their own behavior so they understand what they were doing to their allies. Which is why winning was stipulation in the 50-100 game sentence, they would have to try hard in a game mode where not everyone was doing as such.

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