Boards›Player Behavior

Proof that the automated system is broken?

Runtime Error 48··89 votes·45,026 views

Hello League of Legends boards!

The 11th February I get a email saying that I get a chat restriction for 10 games. I was really surprised since I most of the times never say a word, save for a "GGWP" after the game sometimes. So I stop saying even simple things like that most of the time. (Picture of email below) http://imgur.com/NVaQCWX

The 20th February I get another email saying that I get another chat restriction for 25 games. (Picture of email below) http://imgur.com/Zo2uR9f

Now I was thinking, this is a joke. The amount of real "toxic" people I have played with who report me for no reason is actually getting ME punished?

Yesterday, I play 1 ranked game and after a game (we lost) I get the usual reports (I presume from them /all "report nunu" and the usual losing the game rage, blame someone quick!). Things that pissed them off: I built AP on support Nunu because our ADC was seriously lacking the ability to deal damage (started with attackspeed on Caitlyn, even though I was bloodboiling him 24/7) and the game was pretty much over anyway. Ended up dealing only ~300 damage less than him in the end... And here comes the best part, after the game I get this: http://imgur.com/1UKSJSc

I got no new emails, but that is probably because they got NO WORDS at all to paste in the "chat log". Since I dont talk at all after my restrictions. They say you should login to see the reform card that got you banned (after searching for clues on the internet), but all I get is a error and the above message when trying to play any games (i presume the error is because they have NO words at all to paste in this reform card = error).

Thoughts about this system?

TL;DR: You actually can get banned from saying nothing and getting reported by raging kids enough times. I have never been banned before. And no I have not used hacks or anything like that. The ban is for being "toxic" by saying nothing.

My Profile: http://tr.op.gg/summoner/userName=ll%20%20ll%20%20ll%20%20ll (I cant login on the TR boards for some reason so I try here on this other account)

198 Comments

RiotSlumber Jack135 votes

What you're actually doing is consistently throwing games at the last minute or trolling by doing things like standing in base/towers and refusing to level up/use skills throughout the entire game (across multiple games). Just because you're not using chat to be offensive or feeding doesn't mean what you're doing isn't reportable or punishable.

Players report you because you're intentionally throwing games, but because you're not doing it by feeding players are choosing to report you for both feeding and offensive language to report you for intentionally refusing to cooperate. The reform card you receive is determined by the reports you receive, hence why you are being sent ones meant for chat abuse.

SwoleCalves2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sU5wOfFJ,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2016-03-03T21:37:51.397+0000)

What you're actually doing is consistently throwing games at the last minute or trolling by doing things like standing in base or refusing to level up/use skills throughout the entire game (across multiple games). Just because you're not using chat to be offensive or feeding doesn't mean what you're doing isn't reportable or punishable.

Players report you because you're intentionally throwing games, but because you're not doing it by feeding players are choosing to report you for both feeding and offensive language to report you for intentionally refusing to cooperate. The reform card you receive is determined by the reports you receive, hence why you are being sent ones meant for chat abuse.

/thread

Hammerpriest39 votes

Smite.jpg

Blitzedlegend10 votes

summoner 11 Teemo summoner 11

Azteryz44 votes

Another rioter entering a raging banned players post and proceeding to body them

+1

BattleBalladeer27 votes

And this after all the recent threads where people have claimed Riot can do nothing about this kind of offense too!

http://31.media.tumblr.com/b7afadfc92c28d0f66fc42c0f7016e26/tumblr_ndlp7szgZN1qz9nvbo1_400.gif

1Maza9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sU5wOfFJ,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2016-03-03T21:37:51.397+0000)

What you're actually doing is consistently throwing games at the last minute or trolling by doing things like standing in base/towers and refusing to level up/use skills throughout the entire game (across multiple games). Just because you're not using chat to be offensive or feeding doesn't mean what you're doing isn't reportable or punishable.

Players report you because you're intentionally throwing games, but because you're not doing it by feeding players are choosing to report you for both feeding and offensive language to report you for intentionally refusing to cooperate. The reform card you receive is determined by the reports you receive, hence why you are being sent ones meant for chat abuse.

summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11 summoner 11

DeathBurst7 votes

Which is a wonderful opportunity to say once again that the line in the report form shouldn't be "Feeding" at all.

I said it when the new system was revealed. I made a thread about it a few weeks ago: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/uZ2OHQul-riot-consider-renaming-intentionally-feeding-to-something-more-generic Sadly, it didn't get any traction on the boards...

But I'll repeat it here, since you seem to be aware of the problem: there are many more ways to throw a game than to just feed. Why were the old "Assisting enemy team" and "Refusing to communicate" removed? They are both more generic and more useful than the current reasons. You can check my old thread for more details.

SmokedAlmonds3 votes

We have that generic option, Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

DeathBurst4 votes

I disagree that "Unsportsmanlike" is a fitting description for the somewhat more serious offenses, even though it's generic.

Being unsportsmanlike is displaying a negative attitude, blaming your teammates in a policed but useless way, bragging when you win, or saying "lagg" when you lose, saying "ez" at the end of a game, etc. This is the kind of general "conduct" that is "not cool" but isn't any specific category of "bad".

Someone that refuses to play or intentionally loses a game is not simply "unsportsmanlike", he is not respecting the basic social contract of LoL at all. And it shouldn't be grouped with the other problems mentioned above.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

I would say not respecting that basic social contract is unsportsmanlike and I wouldn't say unsportsmanlike is minor at all. More than that it even specifically lists griefing falls under it.

DeathBurst3 votes

You are technically correct, given the current system. But my point is precisely that there is an issue with the current system.

I'm asking for something more generic to replace "Intentionally feeding", but it shouldn't be the other extreme with a category like "Unsportsmanlike" covering everything from "gg ez" to "intentionally leaving lane and forcing an open mid on the team". Or we could as well have only one reason called "did bad stuff" and be done with it.

EDIT: and Slumber Jack here himself acknowledges that there is a problem with the reasons to report presented in the form. That's why I decided to repeat myself, despite no success in the previous attempt.

SmokedAlmonds3 votes

I wish griefing was its own option. It is too important to be a footnote.

It probably is necessary for intentional feeding to be its own specific report because there is automated intentional feeding detection so it needs to look specifically for that.

Beoridas6 votes

it was quite difficult to read it. lots of commas missing my friend.

RiotSlumber Jack29 votes

Sometimes proofreading time just isn't available :P you'll have to live with my atrocious run-on sentences for now.

MeilinII6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sU5wOfFJ,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2016-03-03T21:37:51.397+0000)

What you're actually doing is consistently throwing games at the last minute or trolling by doing things like standing in base/towers and refusing to level up/use skills throughout the entire game (across multiple games). Just because you're not using chat to be offensive or feeding doesn't mean what you're doing isn't reportable or punishable.

Players report you because you're intentionally throwing games, but because you're not doing it by feeding players are choosing to report you for both feeding and offensive language to report you for intentionally refusing to cooperate. The reform card you receive is determined by the reports you receive, hence why you are being sent ones meant for chat abuse.

Bless every Rioter that comes in to summoner 11 people who talk shit about your system. I hope you go on a 10+ game win streak in ranked and have the softest, clearest skin of your life. Good Karma to you.

Ludovico2 votes

Excuse me for using your helpful answer as a means to get information regarding the current report-system^^: I often find myself searching for old options to report players for, mostly negative attitude/refusing to communicate.

Are you happy with the changes to the report system?

I mean, just because he gets reported for offensive language, he gets these kinds of mails (which ARE not the reason he deserved to be banned). Wouldn´t more ways to report players for help with those kind of problems?

Jonxx2 votes

Alright, so there was a reason in the end. However why did system actually banned him like for chat abuse? Why did he get chat restriction, when he should've received a ban? Isn't this still proving there's something wrong?

I mean how are chat restrictions supposed to help in his reform if they're supposed to prevent people from flaming and other chat abuse. You can troll freely even with chat restriction so it serves no purpose, maaaybe except as a warning that ban is coming, but it should just come right away imo.

Koonta Kintae2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sU5wOfFJ,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2016-03-03T21:37:51.397+0000)

What you're actually doing is consistently throwing games at the last minute or trolling by doing things like standing in base/towers and refusing to level up/use skills throughout the entire game (across multiple games). Just because you're not using chat to be offensive or feeding doesn't mean what you're doing isn't reportable or punishable.

Players report you because you're intentionally throwing games, but because you're not doing it by feeding players are choosing to report you for both feeding and offensive language to report you for intentionally refusing to cooperate. The reform card you receive is determined by the reports you receive, hence why you are being sent ones meant for chat abuse.

How and when did OP throw matches. I was looking at his match history and I just don't see it. Most of the time he has very good KDA and general performance. He never appears to hard intentional feed so what exactly is he doing wrong? I didn't see any evidence of skills not being leveled or total refusal to participate. Is there something specific you can point out to in the match history that led to this ban?

Caitlyn Hunt3 votes

ty for commenting. btw, why would it send him a verbal toxicity email? isnt there emails for feeders or does it just do this

RiotSlumber Jack9 votes

It's determined by the reports players use. If the players are using both, the system will make the best "guess" as to what the players are trying to convey, and since it was definitely not feeding, it opted to send the verbal logs.

GamblerOfLives48 votes

punishment well deserved. how dare you type gg? or BOTMUS? BOTMUS really? and let's not forget "?" you even posted "???"-3 question marks? Like for real? WELL DESERVED. we don't want you in our games..good bye

IcyPepper5 votes

Jokes aside, looks like a Rioter smited him :|

RiotRiot Tantram31 votes

The emails received only contain one game due to email limitations. Some email providers reject long emails.

However, after each punishment, you would be presented with an in-client reform card when attempting to login.

It would be more helpful to post those, so I can get a better idea of what is happening. I also can't tell what your summoner name is, so I can't actually look it up for you.

leaugesbane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sU5wOfFJ,comment-id=002a,timestamp=2016-03-03T21:39:51.272+0000)

The emails received only contain one game due to email limitations. Some email providers reject long emails.

However, after each punishment, you would be presented with an in-client reform card when attempting to login.

It would be more helpful to post those, so I can get a better idea of what is happening. I also can't tell what your summoner name is, so I can't actually look it up for you.

know what the difference between me and a guy like this is? im not stupid enough to think your system works it doesnt so stop lying to yourself

half of flaming is just expalining things to people so they dont do it in future matchs

aka keeping the ignorant innocent because they honestly didnt know better and the guilty clearly toxic and happily hopefully going to receive a ban

centuriation552 votes

{quoted}

know what the difference between me and a guy like this is? im not stupid enough to think your system works it doesnt so stop lying to yourself

half of flaming is just expalining things to people so they dont do it in future matchs

aka keeping the ignorant innocent because they honestly didnt know better and the guilty clearly toxic and happily hopefully going to receive a ban

The guy is a confused, unhappy minimum wage earning customer service agent. Do you HONESTLY BELIEVE this guy has ANY fucking clue how the system works? He's simply discussing pre-approved discussion points becasue you cant EVER trust a minimum wage earning individual to know anything.

RiotRiot Tantram27 votes

(See title) I wrote the entire system.

DimirWaterbender6 votes

I love reading Tantrams comments. He always brings that summoner 11 and summoner 14

Stasis6911 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sU5wOfFJ,comment-id=002a000000000001,timestamp=2016-06-21T19:46:10.712+0000)

(See title) I wrote the entire system.

So could you explain why the player who writes "are you serious fidd" or notes a summoner committing summoner code violations, without actually asking for a report, gets banned off 4 reviewed games after over 852 (0.46% of total games, the four games with chat logs came in the span of 17 games) yet the player who professed "I hope you're killed in a mass shooting" then leaves, for a 50% egregious violation rate in just four games remains free to play.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/bBxtzNhW-riot-player-behavior-seniors-pls-i-present-a-most-thorough-well-thought-out-defense-very-long http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/L3a1ZMOZ-riot-id-highly-appreciate-a-reasonable-employee-who-can-help-me-i-would-like-direct-explanation http://i.imgur.com/dpzypQS.png http://i.imgur.com/658ziUp.png

I have had almost a dozen of my friends express true shock that my gameplay and chats not only got my punished, but skipped two levels of punishment and immediately issued a 2 week ban without ever having even been previously warned I was reported. I literally went thru strenuous personal efforts to prevent any negative status from effecting my account, while taking screenshots of literally hundreds of chat violations that I could submit to support at a moments notice. As this is not my first account and I have been playing five years I am well aware of the rules and truly thought I was "reformed" only to find out that not only was I, according to Riot, 100% wrong, but my actions were in such violation that I skipped multiple tiers of punishment.

I received very poor, automated response from Riot support via my email and was told that "maybe I should think about what I say before I say it." I thought that was the point of the warnings of having been reported? Why is all chat viewed naturally as negative? Why is putting 20 periods in a sentence considered so volatile that you get an instant two week ban without warning while the hate speech is ignored?

http://i.imgur.com/rV6yhDF.png http://i.imgur.com/certd6w.png http://i.imgur.com/AIbEO4H.png

I don't truly am taken aback that my actions have received this course of action as they don't seem to fall under what is punishable, as per: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player

RiotRiot Tantram12 votes

Your punishment was issued through manual review of the worse offenders. It did not go through any sort of automated process and was issued entirely through manual human review. I took a second to review the cases myself and agree with their assessment.

You weren't punished for only chat. You were punished for trolling, intentional feeding, and all sorts of attempts to subtly ruin the games of others.

ehgPCl5K8j1 votes

Care to prove, or is everyone just going to accept word of mouth as absolute evidence.

DeathBurst3 votes

Well, I don't know about everyone, but I'm definitely going to accept Tantram's words. Why should I believe you and Stasis more than him?

Stasis6911 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sU5wOfFJ,comment-id=002a00000000000100010000,timestamp=2016-06-21T22:49:29.272+0000)

Your punishment was issued through manual review of the worse offenders. It did not go through any sort of automated process and was issued entirely through manual human review. I took a second to review the cases myself and agree with their assessment.

You weren't punished for only chat. You were punished for trolling, intentional feeding, and all sorts of attempts to subtly ruin the games of others.

Here are full replays of each of the said reported games in question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQn6Zrji9V4- 3/17/6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn21kha6Qx4 3/6/4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pFfSd53R6M 10/8/13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smecaCzQzEY 10/11/4

Here is my profile: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Stasis691 As you can see I average 8.2 deaths a game, over a course of 852 games. This would suggest I die a lot naturally and after watching the replays there is nobody who could suggest I fed a single kill intentionally. It can also be noted that I was falsely accused of intentionally feeding by the Fiddlesticks in whichever game that was. After watching the replays, it would seem easy to conclude that the review process is gone simply by reading chat logs and looking at the score. Is that how it works?

Also, one question not regarding me personally. Why is the system programmed to only focalise one player? Why isn't each game individually reviewed by the system and then all offending players in said game receive a tally against them?

RiotRiot Tantram3 votes

Here are full replays of each of the said reported games in question.

I never stated individual games. Why did you choose these games?

Deep Terror Nami22 votes

To be more accurate, this is an indication that the system isn't perfect; not proof that it is broken. We already know it isn't perfect though. If your punishment was an error then Riot will remove it. Submit a Support Ticket and they can help you out if it was an error.

ZGM Dazzling3 votes

He probably changed the chat logs in html. If he refreshed we would see what they really where.

Raw9 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZGM Dazzling,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sU5wOfFJ,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2016-03-03T17:03:21.539+0000)

He probably changed the chat logs in html. If he refreshed we would see what they really where.

White knight in denial alert. http://www.auplod.com/u/uopadl6d63e.png

Magnum Mack5 votes

That signature makes me swole

cystium13 votes

Riot should reintroduce the tribunal in addition to the automated system for cases like this one.

Just have auto punishment active, but give every person a limited option to appeal. if a person appeals the case is sent to the tribunal where to community can decide whether or not the punishment was deserved or not. if it was deserved the punishment stands and the person loses 1 appeal option (to prevent toxic players to simply always appeal when they get punished and waste everyone's time). If the community doesn't see fit to punish a person the punishment is revoked and the appeal refunded.

If you know you are innocent you have nothing to fear since you wont lose anything and have everything to gain, but if you did some nasty stuff you might not want to waste your appeal(s) on cases you know you lost anyway.

Runtime Error 481 votes

{quoted}

Riot should reintroduce the tribunal in addition to the automated system for cases like this one.

Just have auto punishment active, but give every person a limited option to appeal. if a person appeals the case is sent to the tribunal where to community can decide whether or not the punishment was deserved or not. if it was deserved the punishment stands and the person loses 1 appeal option (to prevent toxic players to simply always appeal when they get punished and waste everyone's time). If the community doesn't see fit to punish a person the punishment is revoked and the appeal refunded.

If you know you are innocent you have nothing to fear since you wont lose anything and have everything to gain, but if you did some nasty stuff you might not want to waste your appeal(s) on cases you know you lost anyway.

Very nice. Good idea. But I fear that the work is too much to be worth it for Riot. I mean, most of the times, people are actually getting banned for a reason. So the 0.00001% that is not, is not a big deal for them.

Awkward Couch4 votes

It's actually next of the list of things for Lyte and his team to put up. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mEIlagLk-when-is-the-tribunal-coming-back?comment=0006

Nar7ia11 votes

Huh this looks really scary o.o" I think this might one of those rare cases where system made a mistake .. try sending a support ticket.Best of luck mate :3

DrCyanide8 votes

Make a support ticket - https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us

The one thing I'm not certain of is if the logs they send show pre/post game chat.

1 800 MID LANE2 votes

They don't, which is honestly kind of irritating. Punishing people when they don't even point out what they did wrong is just asking for trouble and confusion. This is potentially one of those cases. The community could agree/disagree with this and there's no argument either way because there is no evidence leaning towards his ban, but saying he shouldn't be punished is jumping the gun, also, because pre/post game lobbies are punishable yet Riot has stated that the chat in those lobbies aren't sent to the player for whatever reason. (Forgive me, but I don't have the source. It was a while ago.)

Stephenizgod2 votes

This is what I was thinking, I've played games where someone is silent all game then in the Post game lobby they unleash a torrent of incredibly offensive insults on everyone. So either this person is innocent or it is because of what he/she says during post-game lobby.

Axxuka8 votes

Can't believe that guy got so many Upvotes... Good thing Slumber Jack came to hit you with the hammer of justice.

Good riddance, what you were doing is disgusting. You're lucky it's not a permanent ban.

Are you feeling proud of yourself trying to look ''awesome'' thinking a rioter wouldn't slap the reality out of you ?

Kei1437 votes

I would look at your pre-game chats and post game chats for the reason you got banned. Because of how pvp.net and lol.exe are 2 separate clients (where pre-game and post-game chats are saved in lol.exe), you won't get the chat logs that are normally provided through pvp.net.

Chances are you know what you've said and did there.

Runtime Error 484 votes

Yes, I know that pre-game and post-game chats are separate. I said nothing there either. So thats not true at all, thats why I did not even mention that.

Supreme Senpai696 votes

Good riddance

John Viande5 votes

I upvote because I would like a rioter to check your account to know if you really deserve the ban or not.

Something you have to know is that when you receive chat restriction, it shows dialogue from the game that triggered the restriction. It doesn't mean you don't deserve it from previous games. But sure, it mean that at least you didn't deserve it for the game that triggered the restriction.

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