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Why riot's report system is extremely flawed and NEEDS an overhaul.

LeBlanc OG··2 votes·1,173 views

To start my account got banned for toxicity, which is trash talking people in-game chat. Whether any of you will admit it or not, most of you trash talk in games, it's natural to yell at a teammate who is intentionally trying to lose a game you are trying to win. That is why I'm so confused, why are players who are angry trying to win harder than players that are either int trying to lose or int. trying to instigate their own team (by banned their picks, stealing cs, ksing as support etc...) being banned and muted (punished) when people who intentionally tilt and lose the game for their OWN teammates get off SCOTT FREE, literally nothing happens to people who int lose the game for you, UNLESS they literally keep walking under turrets inting, they have to hardcore int to get banned or they can get away with manuvering the map so that your team loses. Another extremely strong point is that their is a mute button in-game, if there is a mute button why need to have a ability to report someone for verbal abuse, that's going way way way way too far. People can click a single button and not have to communicate with the team at all so why would you keep an option like that in the game if people are banned for cursing anyway???? I've been playing league for 3 years now, I've spent hundreds of hours playing and I find it very unfair that a dedicated consumer is banned for ranting at people who have int lost them games.... What kind of system is that, You have made a dedicated player: Quit, I'm done, good job riot, (unless they pardon my account but their customer service is nowhere near that good). along with many of my other friends one at a time banned for swearing off trolls. It's sooo easy, literally easy. simple. obvious. Solution. What?? there's a solution, yes and it's EASY, People think riot is a gaming company, but if they were a true gaming company they would have done their research and maybe look into other games methods of dealing with cursing in-game. Like hey perma-mute instead of perma-ban. WHAT??!?!?! that's possible, why yes it is. You can just perma-mute a player, that way they can still play, WITH THEIR FRIENDS which is the whole point of league and the dedicated players who actually make league a fun environment get to keep playing. Also, letting your community overview the report system is the worse Idea I've ever experienced in a gaming company, I've had my share of companies,..I've played every big game out there, starcraft, cod, halo, bf, guitar hero, WoW, cs:s, DayZ and its sad that even the Devs of DayZ are more dedicated to their player base than league of legends this supposedly huge E-sport game that should be expanding not shrinking, Tired of these abusive gaming companies, please community bump this post and get them to change the way they manage verbal abuse reports and how lightly they ban people who spend there dam $$$ on a FTP game, seriously I can't believe they ban more people who give3them $$ and time then people that just hop on to lose - Gfypro (Someone who has spent thousands of hours on league). ______REMOVE VERBAL ABUSE REPORTS ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND THIS GAME DOES HAVE AN NA SERVER SO?A START REVIEWING YOUR OWN REPORT SYSTEM_____PARDON ALL THE VERBAL ABUSE ACCOUNTS BANNED AND SET THEM WITH PERMA/OR TIMED MUTES SO THAT YOUR COMP. PLAYER BASE RETURNS riot stop fucking up and listen to the community.

16 Comments

AeroWaffle6 votes

"Whether any of you will admit it or not, most of you trash talk in games, it's natural to yell at a teammate who is intentionally trying to lose a game you are trying to win."

Stop right there. That is only your assumption. In my games, I rarely run into someone who flames. I would say one out of five games I run into a flamer. That's only 1/20 people if I don't include myself or enemies. And I certainly don't flame.

They tried the perma-mute.

It. Did. Not. Work.

Many perma-muted players just found other methods to show their dissatisfaction with their allies. Like trolling. And trolling is much harder to catch especially when the person trolling is trying to avoid detection.

Z Statistic1 votes

That's not what I remember. I remember simply the average reported quality of games going down. Whether that's because people trolled or could communicate effectively or even just placebo is unclear. This was before the time of multi-pings, so the second possibility is definitely a reasonable confound.

I think it would probably be better not to be permanently muted but to start off as muted forever but players can unmute you for their eyes to see what you say at their discretion. Not everyone cares if the dood says some obscene things.

LeBlanc OG1 votes

{quoted}

"Whether any of you will admit it or not, most of you trash talk in games, it's natural to yell at a teammate who is intentionally trying to lose a game you are trying to win."

Stop right there. That is only your assumption. In my games, I rarely run into someone who flames. I would say one out of five games I run into a flamer. That's only 1/20 people if I don't include myself or enemies. And I certainly don't flame.

They tried the perma-mute.

It. Did. Not. Work.

Many perma-muted players just found other methods to show their dissatisfaction with their allies. Like trolling. And trolling is much harder to catch especially when the person trolling is trying to avoid detection.

There system as it stands now is benefiting trolls more than ever, remove the ppl yelling at the trolls and the trolls will just flourish.. Do they ever wonder why the people are so angry in the first place, its not cuz of bad plays... everyone can look at themselves and see their mistakes, its because of people who make bad plays intentionally...It'd just be nice if they permanently banned the players in the games where I got reported, if they are gonna ban me for verbal abuse then they are obligated to ban EVERY PLAYER that was in my games that was trolling. THEY MUST WITH THIER OWN EYES AS A GAMING COMPANY LOOK THROUGH MY GAMES AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT HE HAS NO RIGHT TO BE MAD AT THIS GUY, BUT THEY DON'T AND THE REASON IS THEY WOULD SIDE WITH ME, THEY WOULD REALIZE HOW ANTI-WINNING MY TEAQMMATES WERE AND THEY WOULD SAY "MAYBE WE SHOULD BAN THESE PEOPLE FOR PLAYING SO LIGHTLY IN A RANKED MATCH, IT ONLY SEEMS FAIR THAT THE PEOPLE WHO INT. DON'T USE TEAMWORK SHOULD BE Perma-banned along with me. that means 10 other players should be removed from league for a worse offense then mine, or would you say you'd rather have someone INT. trying to lose on ur team then someone just cursin in chat whose still trying their best to win? YOU AND RIOT have no logic when it comes to competitive games. Clearly people who want to lose can play league all day, look at the youtube community, more than half of them agree that Riot's banning system is busted.

AeroWaffle3 votes

Do you actually think that yelling at trolls is what keeps them at bay?

You do understand the goal of a troll right? It's to make you angry. Yelling at them is a confirmation that they achieved their goal.

Now if you're talking about people who just play like shit and make poor decisions, that's not bannable nor will it ever be.

ZippoBolter1 votes

{quoted}

"Whether any of you will admit it or not, most of you trash talk in games, it's natural to yell at a teammate who is intentionally trying to lose a game you are trying to win."

Stop right there. That is only your assumption. In my games, I rarely run into someone who flames. I would say one out of five games I run into a flamer. That's only 1/20 people if I don't include myself or enemies. And I certainly don't flame.

They tried the perma-mute.

It. Did. Not. Work.

Many perma-muted players just found other methods to show their dissatisfaction with their allies. Like trolling. And trolling is much harder to catch especially when the person trolling is trying to avoid detection.

Uh yeah, the perma mute completely got rid of the verbal abuse because it was impossible for them to do it. The trolling should have been handled separately and should receive very harsh punishments, yet for some reason right now the verbal abuse (which can be muted, restricted, disabled in menu etc) is considered the epitome of toxic behavior

AeroWaffle1 votes

Trolling is many magnitudes harder to prove. How does an automatic system tell if someone is intentionally over-taxing a lane or stealing jungle cs in order to make someone else angry, rather than just a poor gameplay choice?

In-game trolling comes in many forms that are indistinguishable from someone that just plays poorly and makes poor decisions. Playing poorly is not against the rules, so lots of trolling slips through the system in an effort to minimize false positives.

There is no excuse with chat. You are 100% in control of what you say in team and all chat, so the system can be sure to hold you responsible for it.

I would rather the system remove the players that don't have the self control to keep their anger out of the game rather than funneling their frustrations to other, harder to detect, forms of negative behavior.

ZippoBolter1 votes

{quoted}

Trolling is many magnitudes harder to prove. How does an automatic system tell if someone is intentionally over-taxing a lane or stealing jungle cs in order to make someone else angry, rather than just a poor gameplay choice?

In-game trolling comes in many forms that are indistinguishable from someone that just plays poorly and makes poor decisions. Playing poorly is not against the rules, so lots of trolling slips through the system in an effort to minimize false positives.

There is no excuse with chat. You are 100% in control of what you say in team and all chat, so the system can be sure to hold you responsible for it.

I would rather the system remove the players that don't have the self control to keep their anger out of the game rather than funneling their frustrations to other, harder to detect, forms of negative behavior.

It's very simple actually. You just need to hire a team dedicated to watching replays and judging them. It's easy to recognize this kind of behavior, especially if the elo is taken into account. For example. a level 5 player who doesn't know what they are doing is quite a difference from a level 30 player in diamond 5. If the evidence is unclear, watch other games from this same person and judge the difference of their playstyle.

Encourage people who are being harassed/trolled to remain calm and send a recording of the game to support staff. In return, players will be much less likely to retaliate against someone abusing them when they know riot is taking their report seriously instead of leaving it to an automatic system that has a poor success rate in banishing trolls.

Keep in mind that the chat is also evidence, for example; if you see a morgana in gold 5 die and get mad at the adc for not following up on engage, and then proceed to farm the minion wave with soil under tower, or shoving the wave out and roaming, leaving the adc to get frozen on and have their lane crippled, as well as constant protests from the adc on this behavior, you can recognize the negative behavior and punish accordingly.

It's the same with intentional feeding, it's easy to recognize 6 tear of the goddess riven walking into enemy turrets, but recognize a salty mid laner who runs into team fights, doesnt cast a spell and dies is also easily recognized. At the very least, these people will defend their actions by saying they are tilted, apologize, and at the very least be together with the team and perhaps be used as a distraction, which is a far superior outcome to playing 4v5 for the rest of the game.

You can't catch every single instance of this behavior, for example a jungler/top laner who's angry at his team, refusing to gank and farm jungle/split push top lane until they lose the game, however even this type of griefing can be detected, because players like this will not even defend the base. Seeing a level 16 jungler farming wolves while the team struggles to defend nexus turrets is a big red flag and is at the VERY least deserving of a warning. Even if you can't completely remove this, you would see a very impactful increase in punishment to people who are determined to lose the game to spite their team.

In addition, players like myself who will receive punishment for telling off an intentional troll are far less likely to do so knowing riot is watching over us and has our backs against this bullshit. It's the fact that riot doesn't do fuck all to help us out that frustrates people even further and causes them to take matters into their own hands, escalating the problem further instead of solving it.

AeroWaffle1 votes

Are you aware of the number of games that are played per day? The manpower doesn't exist to manually review every case of suspected trolling. Especially when plenty of players would take playing poorly as "trolling".

ZippoBolter1 votes

{quoted}

Are you aware of the number of games that are played per day? The manpower doesnt exist to manually review every case of suspected trolling. Especially when plenty of players would take playing poorly as "trolling"

Are you aware that riot has made over a billion dollars in micro transactions? They can hire a large team, they can also ask for the support of exceptional volunteer players who are willing to sift through games and highlight time stamps of toxicity for the support team to address. People have done this for the tribunal, and they would certainly be willing to aid riot in the war against toxic trolls. Things can be done, but they don't even attempt to try

AeroWaffle1 votes

The 2014 numbers Riot revealed state that 27 million players played at least one game per day. Assuming that they only play one game each and they all were in a 5v5 game mode, that would be 2.7 million games per day minimum.

Let's break it down further, because not every game is going to have a troll. Let's be extremely optimistic. Let's say 1% of games have a troll in it (and was reported).

That's still 27,000 games to review, per day. And like I said, that would be a minimum. Many league players don't only play a single game per day, and 1% chance of someone being reported for "trolling" is being optimistic.

They tried to include the community in a previous version of the tribunal to help get through cases and allow the players to decide what was acceptable. The result was an enormous backlog. And this was just the chat logs, something that only takes a couple of minutes of reviewing.

You're asking that people review actual gameplay.

ZippoBolter1 votes

{quoted}

The 2014 numbers Riot revealed state that 27 million players played at least one game per day. Assuming that they only play one game each and they all were in a 5v5 game mode, that would be 2.7 million games per day minimum.

Let's break it down further, because not every game is going to have a troll. Let's be extremely optimistic. Let's say 1% of games have a troll in it (and was reported).

That's still 27,000 games to review, per day. And like I said, that would be a minimum. Many league players don't only play a single game per day, and 1% chance of someone being reported for "trolling" is being optimistic.

They tried to include the community in a previous version of the tribunal to help get through cases and allow the players to decide what was acceptable. The result was an enormous backlog. And this was just the chat logs, something that only takes a couple of minutes of reviewing.

You're asking that people review actual gameplay.

If the load is too heavy, measures can be taken to lighten the load. If 1 report is too much, since people are reported like crazy, the obvious solution is to have a threshold of reports and once that is reached, they will be up for review by support staff. This won't solve one-time offenders, but it will clean out those who troll repeatedly.

Having one player report someone just because is one thing, but a whole time doing it game after game should yield results, yes?

Trylobyte1 votes

Paragraphs will make your argument far more intelligible.

Kei1431 votes

[{quoted}](name=LeBlanc OG,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=s86uGQcv,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-25T23:25:48.208+0000)

To start my account got banned for toxicity, which is trash talking people in-game chat. Whether any of you will admit it or not, most of you trash talk in games, it's natural to yell at a teammate who is intentionally trying to lose a game you are trying to win.

Yea .. this is where your world is different than our common world. The fundamentals are very different.

The rest tldr, wall of text too strong.

xCupid1 votes

"...for toxicity, which is trash talking people in-game chat. Whether any of you will admit it or not most of you trash talk in games, it's [only] natural to yell..."

uhh..ok?[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Kaioko1 votes

Answer me this one question - why should your punishment be perma muting which would prevent you from coordinating with your team members effectively whereas perma ban will protect those innocent bystanders from your negative influence?

You can be competitive without breaking the rules - the majority of players manage to do it just fine. Also paragraphs are your friends; hopefully your enter key is not broken.

ZippoBolter1 votes

You can still communicate effectively through pings, smart pings were added to this game for this very reason. The /mute all feature was also added and using it every game and communicating through pings exclusively is completely fine. A permanent mute will protect players from abusive assholes as well as those who retaliate against players harassing them. Banning should be reserved for trolls imo, because nothing else can stop them.

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