First Provisional 3v5... Why can't you figure out how to punish people RIOT 1 AFK 1 with supposed lag problems, im guessing they duo queued and I get screwed Pro system there RIOT, PRO SYSTEM. Suggestion learn to make mmr and lp gains based on individual play
No flash no life2 votesI can feel your frustration, but your suggestion isn't going to work. If riot goes with that system, a suicidal Singed with 0/30/0 that worked his butt off for his team to take all the objectives&end up winning the game would lose ip and mmr - all because he was trying to win.
lolptwo1 votesYou can implement many things, such as objective control, CS per minute,** Gold per minute**, Damage to carries if playing a carry Role,** Damage taken,** warding, ward placements, use of combos, Kill participation, objective participation
lolptwo1 votesYou can implement many things, such as objective control, CS per minute,** Gold per minute**, Damage to carries if playing a carry Role,** Damage taken,** warding, ward placements, use of combos, Kill participation, objective participation
Also this is easily solved. objective control based off team's objectives taken. If you were there to take 3 towers and your team has only taken 3 towers it compensates for you being 0-5 while your team is fed. Also this doesn't eliminate the MMR gain or loss for winning or losing it just ADDS more complicate algorithms than this incredibly simple system of win or lose
Jorencice1 votesAlso this is easily solved. objective control based off team's objectives taken. If you were there to take 3 towers and your team has only taken 3 towers it compensates for you being 0-5 while your team is fed. Also this doesn't eliminate the MMR gain or loss for winning or losing it just ADDS more complicate algorithms than this incredibly simple system of win or lose
Its too much work. When it would only add a slightly better system.
They would have to customize these algorithms to every single champion in the game.
Not to mention I'd abandon the shit out of my adc every time he was even close to dieing. And just spam wards everywhere while stealing as much cs as I could as the support.
lolptwo1 votesYou know what else is flawed? AFK'ing an entire match and raising my MMR and LP because my team carried 5v4 under extreme stressful conditions.
Slightly bettter is still better. I believe it would take A LOT of work but it would greatly improve the system
Jorencice1 votesYou know what else is flawed? AFK'ing an entire match and raising my MMR and LP because my team carried 5v4 under extreme stressful conditions.
Slightly bettter is still better. I believe it would take A LOT of work but it would greatly improve the system
I can tell you have never run a business?
It would take thousands if not TENS of thousands of programming hours to separately set up algorithms for each champion.
Which would costs millions and might not even work with the current framework of the system.
It's simply too expensive. With no gain for the company whatsoever. Hell the amount of paper I have to go through in my company just to get 900$ worth of shelving could take months...
All for what so people get punished for having a bad game?
It's a teams FIVE v FIVE game. Not a free for all.
You win as a team you lose as a team.
lolptwo1 votesLOL, this is personally funny to me because I have fam that works for IBM
You have zero idea what you're talking about, tell Riot to pay me and I will make this algorithm in a couple of weeks.
But yeah,..,,send millions....you have zero idea of business and it's grossly cringe worthy to read what you just said.
What do you own a Quick-E Mart and now think you have a degree in business? I am a business major
Jorencice2 votesLol. No I'm just in charge of all robotics for a mail order pharmacy.
Something that requires shit tons of programming.
Therfore I know costs attached to such things.
You know from planning, execution, bug fixing, distribution, more bug fixing, system conflicts etc....etc...
But hey none of that matters. Major corporations should just let the office janitor do some spaghetti code and plop it in the system.
You seriously think programmers would get paid so well if any dipshit could pop out a code in a week or two?
Now go back to your little business degree and come back with and IT degree if you want to to talk.
Seriously your 7 days late to this thread and youR first reply to me is a personal attack.
That makes me doubt your an adult let alone a smart one.
lolptwo1 votesHAHAHA, oh my god man you're embarrassing yourself.
You have NO idea of Computer Science do you, like literally zero knowledge.
Mail order Pharmacy? LOL, ok enjoy that job. Meanwhile my brother who's pretty high up at IBM (Which incase you didn't know and I assume you don't because you clearly know very little is top 10 biggest companies in the world FOR COMPUTER SCIENCE)
It's called being smart, something you clearly lack.
Jesus christ thank god you have no position of importance in this world.
Jorencice1 votesLol. Smh...
You know nothing about businesses do you?
Just because he works for IBM means jack shit to his computer knowledge (which btw also means jack shit about YOUR computer knowledge).
New flash child. A business only has about 20 or more different departments. Let's see if I can pop shit off the top of my head.
Finance (which is like 6 different departments by its self)
Marketing,
Client services (also multiple different tasks),
Customer services,
Janitorial,
R&D,
IT for the company,
IT for the customers (more specialized than customer services),
The programming team (who are usually not only separate from IT they are alot of the time sub contractors)
And that's just shit off the top of my head.
He has just as much chance being the head of finance as he does anything that knows about computers.
Hell the fucking CEO of Nintendo doesn't even play video games.
Just because you work for a company doesn't mean you know jack shit about what that company does.
Now scramble along child.
lolptwo1 votesYou truly are thick headed are you? Listen I know in the mailing world you don't have to have a degree or anything to get a job. Just a pair of hands, but at places like IBM to be one of the top programmers you actually have to have a degree. You know that thing called school that you never attended and always skipped to make you grow up to be as ignorant as you are?
Jesus christ, go back to school pal, you have a lot to learn about how business works.
Jorencice1 votesLol. No YOU have no idea how a business works.
Just because you have a family member who's a programmers (just a decently paid desk job btw) doesnt mean you know anything about costs associated to a company.
Envy Sin2 votesGo though riots old patch notes. At the bottom of EVERY SINGLE PAGE
Bug fixs: (list)
Sometimes said bugs get fixed 3-5 times because a new patch fucks it up again.
The people fixing said bugs get paid, While they are fixing bugs (That they have fixed several times before) they could have been doing something else.
A friend of mine is making a super chess AI, Knows every combination of the board and pieces (this seems like a simple task yeah?) took a little over a year to program EVERYTHING in. Yeah i suppose it might not have taken as long if he didn't have a job/school. But then he also wasn't being paid.
Now, that's 32 pieces in 64 squares.
League of legends has over 100 champions, So many item builds. Team comps, Laning styles. (Nas might have 200 farm at 40 mins but what if that's ALL q farm?)
Lol, tell you what. Go make that program. (And hey if you're so good you could probably make a test server too right?) test EVERY champion combination, Every game length every kill score, EVERY creep score, ward placement, Objective number POSSIBLE.
Let me know how that go's for you. Pretty sure it'll take you years.
Oh and don't forget K/D/A
Here's how you can start off. Game one. Annie Creepscore: 1 K/D/A: 0/0/0 Dragons taken: 0 Barons taken: 0 Damage dealt to champions: 0
well.. you get the idea, Now test that with 2 creeps. then three then four then five. And do it all over again for every combo.
Because better make sure those gains/losses are working correctly.
No flash no life3 votesYou can implement many things, such as objective control, CS per minute,** Gold per minute**, Damage to carries if playing a carry Role,** Damage taken,** warding, ward placements, use of combos, Kill participation, objective participation
I'm aware you're just listing a few things you can think of right now instead of everything, but even then among them only Damage Taken would apply to a successful Singed (maybe damage dealt and use of combos as well but those won't happen if entire enemy team's on him). In that case, how can you tell apart a troll that feeds and a successful Singed, since their Damage Taken is most likely going to be similarily high?
lolptwo1 votesUsing the same system Riot uses to find intentionally feeding of course. People argue this all the time i've seen posts of people going 0-30 as yi and argue they were just backdooring objectives. However his dmg to champs was extremely low and he was banned. Riot already has similar systems in place it's just in ranked where it's so black and white as win or lose
No flash no life1 votesUsing the same system Riot uses to find intentionally feeding of course.
I see, in that case this brings potential to the suggestion.
Even then, though, I still can't help but worry over the fairness of it. In my example, comparing a Singed with tonnes of damage taken and an adc whose cs, gold, objective taken, damage dealt, etc would skyrocket because entire enemy team's camping Singed, the suggested system is more likely to favor the adc's performance even if Singed is truely the one that carried the game. And if we raise the value of damage taken, it wouldn't be fair for scenarios when damage dealers are the ones truely carrying the game.
I'm not happy with the current system riot has, but as things stand the suggestion remains flawed.
lolptwo1 votesYou can also AFK an entire match and gain LP and MMR if you teams wins. Even though you did nothing.
This is also relatable to having to carry and intentional feeder or someone who's completely useless and they still gain the same MMR and LP as everyone else in the win. Sure this system you could otherwise lose more points based off having a bad game. However at the core it's much more fair than the current implemented system
No flash no life1 votesYou can also AFK an entire match and gain LP and MMR if you teams wins. Even though you did nothing.
This is also relatable to having to carry and intentional feeder or someone who's completely useless and they still gain the same MMR and LP as everyone else in the win. Sure this system you could otherwise lose more points based off having a bad game. However at the core it's much more fair than the current implemented system
Hm, I don't know how the algorithms you spoke of work and how difficult it is to implement them, but I can conditionally agree the idea of rewarding additional mmr and lp based on seperate performance values is very appealing.
Afk is an entirely different issue though, since it violates the rules. There was this one game I left because my internet cafe time was up, I did not receive any lp and the game was considered neither victory nor defeat for me. If my absence from the game toward the end resulted in 0 lp given, I expect disconnections, inactiveness, afk, etc to result in 0 lp 0 mmr(since it's neither win nor loss) given by default system and punishment delivered by riot if the act is identified. Surprised if what you said is true - though if by afk you mean the player is intentionally goofing off at base then I can see it happening.
Envy Sin1 votes^ or what about people that (Technically) were part of a kill cutting of a escape but didn't get a hit in.
Tocosrevenge1 votes"Suggestion learn to make mmr and lp gains based on individual play"
This exactly. Please Riot. You have a very troll heavy game that is suppose to be Ranked and Competetive.
Basing skill off of win/lose seems pretty unresponsible and not logical.
TrulyBland5 votesIt's the most logical. Basing it off of anything else will make people try to game the system and likely result in some scenarios where doing the objcetively wrong thing (lowering your team's chance to win) is going to improve your expected MMR gains. Basing it off of win/lose (and the team's respective MMRs) means that on average it will perfectly represent your ability to win the game; and every anomaly of the system can be fixed by the individual by simply playing more (aka law of big numbers).
Tocosrevenge1 votesI suppose I didnt think about that. Good call. Thanks for the input and I take back my comment from before.
lolptwo1 votesOn the other hand, there's certain to be a better method which includes what actually increases your team's chance of winning statistically (ex: doing more dmg to enemy carries, warding placements ) . This can be very easily configured so that your whole game doesn't depend on 1 player who's 4 tiers lower skill than you, raging in bush while feeding so you end up losing massive LP because of that, even though you played exceptionally well that game.
A lot of other games implement a better system that Riot, it's just that Riot is lazy and it's really easy to go W = MMR Gain L = Minus MMR, when there's is way better complicated algorithms that would actually make people not want to FF at 20 everytime they have an AFK or a troll.
TrulyBland1 votesdoing more damage to enemy carries... okay... so, instead of ending the game, it's better to use your existing advantage to kill the enemy carry as often as possible. Or, alternatively, since ultimately MMR is a relative system, you can also leave your non-carries to die a few times, if you're certain that you'll win anyways.
Most games that have a "better" system than Riot are also either less team focussed or generally less complicated. And it's funny you should mention ff at 20... considering the fact that that's EXACTLY what you'd have to do under a system that judges you based on your performance. If you're down one man, your stats are just going to get worse. Significantly worse. Best course of action in an already lost game would be to just stay in base and wait it out.
lolptwo1 votesThis is just one of many examples. My brother is working on a PhD in computer science and spent a couples weeks for a project making a better MMR system than the one Riot currently has implemented.
You can implement many things, such as objective control, CS per minute, Gold per minute, Damage to carries if playing a carry Role, Damage taken, warding, ward placements, use of combos, Kill participation, objective participation. It would be an incredibly rare false positive for you to contribute in all these categories and still not be contributing to your team winning. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what can be done obviously I won't go through the whole thing in 1 post online however..
This is all better than your system of, oh win = gain LP , lose = lose LP (even if you went 19-0 and took every objective in the game and did 90% of your teams damage and warding) this is especially true now with dynamic system which means you can be placed in a 4 man premade that is simply far far worse than the enemy team's 4 man premade. I've had this happen at least 3 games already where all other lanes 0-7 because they are the worse team and it's literally impossible to carry them or gain MMR from that game
The first method is far more accurate of how good a player is than this crappy win/lose method, that is why you have posts like this
whichi would NEVER happen because just like they have a system in place to knnow if you're MMR boosting. This new system would know you are clearly of higher elo so you're not a Diamond player stuck in Silver from the huge amount of shitty players and AFK's
TrulyBland1 votesYou speak of rare false positives as if people wouldn't actively try to break the system. There are countless examples of strategies or tactical decisions where all the trackable stats intuitively point you in the exact other direction. Sacrificing yourself for an ultimately more important player on the team for example. How many people do you think will be willing to do that, when they know that they might ultimately be punished for it by the system? How many people are willing to play on when they are being steamrolled? How many people are willing to push for the win, when they think they might "milk" the enemy for some more stats?
All of this isn't even only about how the system is designed, but also about how people view it. There are already enough people as it is, that believe KDA is everything... I don't really want Riot to push for even more.
And you can say what you want... but the system we have now is fair. The best way to track your contribution towards winning will always be tracking how often you win with randomized teammates and enemies.
lolptwo1 votesAll of theses problems are solvable by implementing algorithms to counter it. Btw all these things you speak about breaking the system. Riot implements a similar system to catch Elo Boosting, and a similar system to catch refusing to communicate with the team and intentionally feeding.
These systems are implemented elsewhere, just not where it's needed most. Also you failed to remark on how Diamond players struggle in Silver Q, Dynamic 4's can force one really good player to lose, and how the second system has by far more flaws than the first.
I rather the system push for KDA, than win or lose even if you have an afk or 3 trolls. Because right now it's doesn't matter if you're playing with 4 afk's on your team, you lose regardless. Games are more of a babysitting psych 101 contest than actually seeing who's better.
TrulyBland1 votesGreat. Then go ahead and solve all of them. Even the ones we currently don't think of. Champions that might be added in the future that could change the entire spectrum of tactics. Mechanics that don't even exist yet; both for gaming the system you designed and for winning the game. Go implement an algorithm that essentailly predicts the entire future of the game and always is 100% accurate at determining what wins the game. Then we can talk about this system being better than the current one, which does account for all of those... with the one downside that it doesn't account for temporary unlucky streaks.
Edit: And if babysitting people wins you more games... shouldn't that be reflected by your MMR? Shouldn't the fact that you are capable of holding your team together - in a team game, btw - be accounted for?
lolptwo1 votesLol you continue to dodge the massive amount of flaws with the current system yet continue to try to point out flaws with a better system. That my friend, is called a logical fallacy, if Riot wants to pay us, we'll gladly do the work. However I rather just passively sit back and complain until people start doing what they are paid to do, and we'll do what we're paid to do.
TrulyBland1 votesYou say I dodge; when I accounted for the exactly one flaw the current system has: Temprorary inaccuracy that can be fixed by simply playing more games. If there are any others, you haven't mentioned them. On the other hand I clearly pointed out the high maintenance a system like yours requires while most likely still leaving open a ton of loopholes. Loopholes people will aim for, rather than trying to play the game the way it was intended as: As a team game.
I'll take temporary inaccuracy over fundamentally changing the goal of the game any day.
lolptwo1 votesOK fair enough. It's comes to a personal preference at this point. We both see flaws in both systems, I think the small flaws in our system outweights the black and white simplicity of the current system. You rather the simple system, in turn of people not finding out how to trick a new system. I still believe the complicated system can get the false positives and being able to be tricked down to an incredibly low percent with enough work being done onto it. This current system is just simple and doesn't offer any help to playing incredibly well in all aspects of the game and still losing
Also what's truly amazing right now is I can AFK an entire game and if my team somehow wins 4v5 I gain MMR and LP for that game. Wow such good system, much wow, so complicated algorithm.
Jorencice1 votesAll of theses problems are solvable by implementing algorithms to counter it. Btw all these things you speak about breaking the system. Riot implements a similar system to catch Elo Boosting, and a similar system to catch refusing to communicate with the team and intentionally feeding.
These systems are implemented elsewhere, just not where it's needed most. Also you failed to remark on how Diamond players struggle in Silver Q, Dynamic 4's can force one really good player to lose, and how the second system has by far more flaws than the first.
I rather the system push for KDA, than win or lose even if you have an afk or 3 trolls. Because right now it's doesn't matter if you're playing with 4 afk's on your team, you lose regardless. Games are more of a babysitting psych 101 contest than actually seeing who's better.
No diamond EVER has struggled in silver. I watched my freind who in high master literally 1v5 silver teams ending games 30/2
The skill gap is simply to massive.
Drackolus1 votesPeople always remember the 3v5's, always forget the 5v3's.
Samus721 votesPeople always remember the 3v5's, always forget the 5v3's.
Not me. I make it a point to honor players who are stuck with a disadvantage with less team mates.
In a funny note, I've actually lost games when my team has more players than the other side. Sometimes, we are simply outplayed. Other times, my team surrenders and the other sides asks post game why we gave up because one or more of their team was AFK.
Envy Sin1 votes
All love this Idea.
And if assits matter (Which i assume by the way you post you play a assassin and lol at that guy that's 1/5/25 while you're 5/0/2 they wouldn't matter) then the only thing that would get played is 
Welcome back AOE meta
ToxicOrRito 1 votes{quoted} Suggestion learn to make mmr and lp gains based on individual play
Team game, never going to happen.
