League Doesn't Have to be Toxic

Goodjobbob·Nov 12, 2019·18 votes·13,260 views

I don't post because I don't usually find a need to, however, I have recently become fed up with the toxic members of the community. Maybe I sound like a mom saying this but I am fed up with the rampant hateful attitudes in almost any losing game. I bring up this image from my most recent match; toxicity like this deserves some punishment.

Most recent match end-game chat: https://imgur.com/a/HNwrsiO I blurred out all names that aren't mine because I don't want to start a lynch mob

A few things for the record, I rarely type in my games; if I do, it's usually because someone is flaming me. I don't flame back, I make it obvious that flaming people is the wrong way to go about winning a game. All chat flaming happens too often I often wait to see who will flame first, whether it's my team or the enemy.

Flaming ruins the game for people trying a new champ, learning new roles, or someone who just got autofilled. I play support, and I'm trying to learn ADC. Someone telling me that I am literally the worst Trist they've ever seen may not be false, but that doesn't mean I need to be berated every fight because of it. Even if a teammate is the worst at positioning, you don't have to let everyone on both teams know that you see them as the reason you're losing.

I bring this up because it's not just friendly banter. If someone tells me "bro you're garbage" and later we get a small advantage, and they do something to acknowledge it and show they're not really mad at me, I don't care; I enjoy friendly banter. Laughing with and yelling at friends is the best part of multiplayer games. But if people are only yelling, it ruins the experience for everyone.

edit The boards aren't any better. Don't flame Riot because you don't win games, don't flame others because you don't win games.

edit 2 I have seen responses to just mute and move on, but muting the toxic player does not fix the situation, it ignores it. The muter will lose communication with teammates for muting, and that person will continue to flame, especially if no one says anything about it.

edit 3 (and it's kinda a long one) I really appreciate people giving their opinion on this topic. Regardless of what opinion you have, and whether I agree with it or not, the reason I brought this up was not because I myself was flamed. I agree that I don't always take ranked as seriously as others, and that might make them angry (especially if I don't do well). I accept flame that comes toward me and I don't really care what people say, but this wasn't supposed to be about my specific case.

The reason I brought this up was to bring to people's attention that this happens way too often and I didn't make that clear enough originally. Again, I support banter, and I don't really see swearing as an issue, but when I see someone in almost every game flames someone and tell them to "uninstall", or "kill themselves" it's taking it too far. I get that there are tools in place to ignore the toxicity, but I don't feel like those tools fix the problem long-term. I do appreciate muting and reporting for what they can do, but you shouldn't need to mute and report someone (or some people) every game.

Thanks again for all the responses, whether you agreed with me or not. If you do agree with me, please work with me toward being less toxic, and if not, I at least hope you see where I'm coming from.

43 Comments

Ore wa LeBlancNov 12, 20197 votes

There is no excuse for that person flaming, they should definitely be banned. But I got to say that you are playing a RANKED game, so your team expects you to play things you're comfortable with. You said that you're usually support, and trying to learn ADC. Please don't do that in ranked games... If you want to try new champs or new roles, go normal. You totally didn't deserve all that flame, but you should also understand that what you're doing is not cool either.

GilxeNNov 12, 20192 votes

{quoted}

There is no excuse for that person flaming, they should definitely be banned. But I got to say that you are playing a RANKED game, so your team expects you to play things you're comfortable with. You said that you're usually support, and trying to learn ADC. Please don't do that in ranked games... If you want to try new champs or new roles, go normal. You totally didn't deserve all that flame, but you should also understand that what you're doing is not cool either.

Yeah lets ban everyone cuz he said a bad word.

Those ppl who arent muting flamers are more dumb than the flamer.

And if u are staying after lobby and still reading his flame instead of reporting and leaving, even more dumber.

LightswornLanceNov 12, 20192 votes

Hard Agree

nguforeverNov 12, 20192 votes

But like, when did it become normal to tell people to kill themselves? Like bad words I get, and hardly anyone ever gets banned for that. Hashinshin tried to say that because he said some bad words he got banned, but if you read the chat he straight up told the person to die. Like, that's not ok.

4Chan SoloNov 15, 20191 votes

If i understand you well, you mean it's perfectly normal to insult and harass so hard on a game, and it's his fault if he reads the message ? Just, wtf ? Is it possible to play a game without being insulted, is that too much to ask ?

GilxeN has the solution guys ! Just mute all, mute pings, mute emotes ! Or don't play ! After all, it's YOUR fault if you're being told to kill yourself !

I can't believe how dumb you are.

SavunahkaNov 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

There is no excuse for that person flaming, they should definitely be banned. But I got to say that you are playing a RANKED game, so your team expects you to play things you're comfortable with. You said that you're usually support, and trying to learn ADC. Please don't do that in ranked games... If you want to try new champs or new roles, go normal. You totally didn't deserve all that flame, but you should also understand that what you're doing is not cool either.

Normals are full of trolls and casuals, it is not the best place to learn. The best way is to have a smurf with about one tier lower elo than main elo (like this account). However, if there is no smurf account, then one just needs to do it the hard way and play ranked with main account.

Ph03n1xb1rdNov 12, 20196 votes

Flaming ruins the game for people trying a new champ, learning new roles, or someone who just got autofilled.

No, it does not. They ruin their own fun by not muting.

Someone telling me that I am literally the worst Trist they've ever seen may not be false, but that doesn't mean I need to be berated every fight because of it.

Can't happen in every fight, if you mute after the first ;)

Even if a teammate is the worst at positioning, you don't have to let everyone on both teams know that you see them as the reason you're losing.

If he is really so bad, then it's a fact. Also it's better if he knows about it.

Ps.: How were you supposed to link something, when you are already dead? O.o

TrulyBlandNov 12, 20198 votes

{quoted}

No, it does not. They ruin their own fun by not muting.

Just like getting into a car accident doesn't ruin your day. You ruin it yourself by entering traffic. I mean, how dare people partake in something which by itself is beneficial, but exposes them to a risk! Clearly it's their own fault.

Ph03n1xb1rdNov 12, 20192 votes

[deleted]

TrulyBlandNov 12, 20194 votes

I did not ask him to stop playing LoL (not entering traffic in your analogy)

No, that's not what entering traffic was in my analogy, and I reckon you know it. But let me spell it out for you:

There are reasons to have chat enabled. Chat is not inherently bad. People make chat bad through their choices. People who get flamed due to the choice of somebody else are not to blame, just because they participated in chat.

There are reasons to enter traffic. Traffic is not inherently bad. People make traffic bad through their choices. People who get into car accidents caused by others are not to blame, just because they participated in traffic.

If you want to discuss my analogy, I'm more than happy to do so. But please cut out the irrelevant red herrings and strawmen arguments.

I do not want him to sacrifice anything of his fun

And yet you are asking him to do exactly that. You might not understand this, but a lot of people actually find chat (minus the flamers) to be a fun part of LoL and multiplayer games in general.

Ph03n1xb1rdNov 12, 20192 votes

Okay, guess you really want to stick to this.

Do you enter traffic TO BE IN TRAFFIC or do you enter traffic to get from A to B? Accidents, traffic jams, people honking at you and giving you the finger are things that happen in traffic and are bad, but you can not do shit about it, because you still want to get from A to B.

When you start playing LoL, i assume you do it, because you want to play LoL, correct me if im wrong. (So already here your analogy is bad, since the goal of playing LoL is to play LoL. The goal of entering traffic is not to be in traffic. If i could just teleport from A to B i would never enter traffic in my life. If i could play LoL without playing LOL, oh w8.... this is different here.)

Flamers in LoL are the same thing as people giving you a finger in traffic, but do you have a button to make all those fingers disappear? No, you dont (or if you have, go patent it fast and stop arguing on a forum).

So just to summarize:

Traffic:

You have to enter it, if you want to reach your goal in location B
There are assholes assing around, and you have no button to ignore them
These asshats force themselves on you because you have no way to ignore them, and to stop seeing them, you would have to sacrifice your goal (getting from A to B)

LoL:

You enter it, because you want to enter it, you want to play LoL, the goal of playing LoL is playing LoL
There are assholes assing around, and you have a button to ignore them
These asshats can not force themselves on you, because you sacrifice nothing by ignoring them, and you can still reach your goal (play LoL)

Of course my whole reasoning is based on the assumptions:

You enter trafficto get from A to B
You play LoL to play LoL

TrulyBlandNov 12, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Okay, guess you really want to stick to this.

Do you enter traffic […]

When you start playing LoL[…]

Flamers in LoL are the same thing as people giving you a finger in traffic[…]

So just to summarize: Traffic: […]

LoL: […]

There's really no point in continuing this discussion as long as you continue misunderstanding my analogy. Especially since this has to be intentional, since I've told you explicitly what "traffic" was in my analogy, and just as explicitly what it's not.

Ph03n1xb1rdNov 12, 20191 votes

What are you even talkin' about?

Let me quote you:

There are reasons to enter traffic. Traffic is not inherently bad. People make traffic bad through their choices. People who get into car accidents caused by others are not to blame, just because they participated in traffic.

And go through this one by one:

There are reasons to enter traffic: Yes, to get from A to B, as i said in my comment.
People make traffic bad through their choices: Yes, as i said: "There are assholes assing around"
People who get into car accidents caused by others are not to blame, just because they participated in traffic: I did not explicitly said this, but i totally agree with this, since those people had to enter traffic to reach their goal.

You wrote almost the same thing as me, i really do not understand what do you think i'm misunderstanding.

And for the LoL part:

There are reasons to have chat enabled: TBH not too much, especially for 90% of LoL players, but yeah, sometimes shotcalling can be helpful.
People make chat bad through their choices: Yes, as i said: "There are assholes assing around"
People who get flamed due to the choice of somebody else are not to blame, just because they participated in chat: And here it is a bit different. If the given person is an Inter, then he caused it for himself, and he is to blame. If he is not an inter and he is flamed, then of course, they are not to blame. If the given person fails to help himself and do not mute them flamer, then he is to blame.

You can not be blamed for things what you have no control over. But you have control over the flamer (aka mute button) and you are to blame if you do not use it. I'm not saying flamers are good, what i'm saying is that people who do not mute flamers and complain about them are equally r%%%%%ed.

TrulyBlandNov 12, 20193 votes

{quoted}

But you have control over the flamer (aka mute button) and you are to blame if you do not use it.

You only have control over the flamer (which is a pretty poor way of wording it, btw) once they have already started flaming.

The only way to actually prevent yourself from being flamed is identical to the traffic analogy: Opt out of the entire thing. And that's not a reasonable thing to ask of people; at least not in the sense that if they don't do that they are to blame for the flame they receive.

Ph03n1xb1rdNov 12, 20191 votes

[deleted]

GoodjobbobNov 12, 20193 votes

The problem I have with muting people is that communication is important. I don't want to have to handicap myself by not knowing what my team is saying just because someone is too mad to say anything nice. As I said earlier, I don't care if someone says something salty one or two times. The problem is repeated flame.

Jennifer17Nov 12, 20196 votes

if someone REALLY is that bad that he "needs" to know it, why not add the person after the game and maybe with some nicer words tell them that their positioning needs working?

i would appreciate that if someone told me that in a decent human being way.

Yin Yang TaoistNov 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

if someone REALLY is that bad that he "needs" to know it, why not add the person after the game and maybe with some nicer words tell them that their positioning needs working?

i would appreciate that if someone told me that in a decent human being way.

I looked you up and you're level 16. Positioning is not that important at this point, just focus on not getting hit by turret and trying to last hit minions/helping teammates. You only play Yuumi so positioning wouldn't matter even past 30 in ranked games as much. Could be that this is your alt. account in which case don't mind me.

Alright, back to the OP. For my peace of mind, I just mute chat play. Dislike the current system. At the same time, I don't want to deal with nonsense.

Jennifer17Nov 13, 20191 votes

im just too lazy to log into a different acc. im playing since season 2.

KnightLakegaNov 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

if someone REALLY is that bad that he "needs" to know it, why not add the person after the game and maybe with some nicer words tell them that their positioning needs working?

i would appreciate that if someone told me that in a decent human being way.

If only it were this easy... The problem with the league community is you have 3 excessive extremes ALL of them creating an insanely toxic environment, especially when they're put together..

You have the excessively toxic tilters, who rage like in the OP.
You have the excessively "nice but two faced" people, who will instantly support the first person who is remotely not treated like a living god, regardless of how passive, or normal the person made the comment. (Like "dude seriously man stay in the damn fight", then the two faced "nice" person turns excessively toxic trying to defend him and wont stop being a toxic white knight (This isa ctually most people on league I've found)).
Then you have the straight up trolls who are out to screw with you.

The only thing all 3 have in common? They think they are better than you in every way.

Anyone in between is caught in the cross fire, and even the neutral people just trying to have a nice time can come under attack by any of these 3 by doing literally nothing, (see it happen everyday).

So my point, nobody wants to listen to you 9/10, in or out of a game.

taehyunqqNov 12, 20193 votes

wow @ all the people not seeing a problem in someone getting told to kill themselves in a harsh way over a game. i’d say you’re all part of the problem. fucking disgusting. i don’t care if this person was doing bad and/or trying out a new role in ranked, that’s no reason to tell them this. i don’t care if it’s “the internet”, so what? fuck this person i guess for not muting, this is their fault now. sometimes, people write useful things in chat, plus muting still shows their stuff in the lobby after the game.

i sincerely hope this dude is gonna get permabanned :/

LightswornLanceNov 12, 20192 votes

I mean he's not technically wrong, negative winrate, been silver / gold for 6 seasons, playing tristana despite only having three games of her played. Like the other guy said just mute. However I know you won't. You don't actually think the things he's saying are hurtful. It's the fact that they ARE TRUE which is making them hurtful. I think that rather than raging on the forums about what internet people say, you should be trying to actually get better at the game. Thats just my two cents, but if you don't care about getting better maybe ranked isnt for you.

GoodjobbobNov 12, 20191 votes

The reason I don't mute people is because I would like to communicate with my team. Even if someone is angry they can call a good shot. However, people should not spam chat with "ur garbage kill yourself" it doesn't help anyone. It also doesn't matter who the flame is directed toward, whether it's me, my teammates, or the enemy team; that kind of attitude toward others isn't okay.

Also, I happen to find ranked a better place to practice than normals, since I am typically put with people closer to my skill level. This does not mean that I don't know what I'm doing while practicing. If I didn't, I would play normals. I wouldn't want to ruin someone else's ranked game because I can't play my role. For example, there is a good reason that I will not actively try to play top in ranked unless autofilled, and even then I try to trade roles.

LightswornLanceNov 12, 20191 votes

I would never listen to a gold players shotcalls. Also don't try to take moral highground in this situation, you or someone obviously escalated the situation to that point.

GoodjobbobNov 12, 20191 votes

So would you agree that the moral highground is not flaming people regardless of what they say or do? If that's what the moral highground is, I will work toward it. All I said to Vi was that "flaming someone is not going to make then want to play better." And if two different people were making the game worse for each other (whether one person was me or not) they are doing something wrong, and they should work toward being non-toxic.

LightswornLanceNov 12, 20191 votes

The moral highground does not exist in this situation. The best possible course of action is to mute and play out the game normally. Don't type to them at all especially if you are the person being flamed because you're playing bad, because it literally will solve nothing. You arent going to suddenly play better because they are flaming you so just mute them. Don't try to control them, you can control only yourself. If you don't want to mute them, then just tell them you muted them then never type back.

GoodjobbobNov 12, 20191 votes

The moral highground does exist in this situation. Flaming someone and telling them to kill themselves is not morally acceptable regardless of the situation. While muting a toxic player is an option, it also hurts the person muting their teammates because that is one less person they can communicate with.

Also, because everyone can control themselves, then they should not flame others, especially since it is morally unacceptable to tell someone to kill themselves. A morally acceptable way of criticising a player is constructive criticism.

Muting toxic players does not fix the issue, it ignores it.

LightswornLanceNov 12, 20191 votes

You are literally playing in gold, what your teammates say will never contribute to the game state. Stop using that as an excuse to try to get the moral high ground. Muting toxic players DOES in fact fix the issue. Well it does for most players and in most situations. But for YOU in particular it doesn't because you actually care about the flame, because you know it is TRUE. So the SOLUTION is to make it NOT TRUE, by getting better at the game. I carry almost every game I play and trust me, I never get flamed.

nguforeverNov 12, 20192 votes

I think both of you have valid points.

@Lightsworn, I agree that muting them is most likely the best course of action. Ignoring the flamer is the best course of action and ranked in many ways is about getting better at the game.

@Goodjobbob, I agree that they had no grounds to tell you to kill yourself. That's hard, especially if you struggle with those thoughts (like I did a year ago). Riot's hate speech filter usually get's those kinds of people quick (even hashinshin, though I enjoy his content). I'm sure that guy got punished but I am sorry you had to go through that.

On the same note,

@Lightsworn, Though something did happen between the two of them, telling the person that they shouldn't feel that an injustice was done to them or saying that they don't care about it really isn't helpful. Like, it's their feelings, assuming never gets anyone anywhere.

@Goodjobbob, I agree that the player flaming you should change, but probably won't. People get banned all the time and end up on fresh new accounts and do the exact same thing, something I had the privelege of learning when someone hacked into my account and got me banned for saying that I hate Jewish people (my dream is to go to Israel one day). Riot has so many measures in place to deal with this stuff but there are too many people making accounts and not enough Riot personnel to deal with it and still be profitable as a company. If the community has decided that ranked is only for people who want to be serious about the game play, then you can't really do much with that. Muting is the best option if you don't have the same mindset because you can't change theirs.

XJ99999999999999Nov 12, 20192 votes

no it doesnt but people support people like tyler1 who has ruined league and gaming forever with his toxicity and got rewarded for it

uSfUpLarryNov 12, 20192 votes

Honestly speaking, have you tried playing normals?

If you've been the same rank for those many games perhaps you're just just holding the team behind, refuse to improve, and if people are repeatedly being toxic to you then you're probably playing incredibly bad. Bad enough to tick your teammates off on a constant basis.

GoodjobbobNov 13, 20192 votes

The flame is not always directed toward me, but whether it is or isn't doesn't make it okay.

uSfUpLarryNov 13, 20191 votes

It doesn't even matter. You can just as easily mute them and move on.

Irl people get shot, kidnapped, and raped. Complaining about toxicity in LoL is a first world problem.

grayamirNov 12, 20192 votes

One could argue that certain aspects of League of Legends promote toxicity.

AFKs. The game has become so self-important that if you have to step away from the game for even a moment, you're going to be demonized and flamed by your teammates, and the game's design supports their side. No AI/bot to take over for you if you have to leave or get D/C'd, no ability to have another player drop-in and replace you, and no pause function outside of the largest-scale tournaments. Have kids or pets that need attention? Too bad. Your grandma fall down and needs help? Leave her be. Power outage? Reported. Et cetera, et cetera. Your reasons don't matter because the game is obviously more important.

REPORTS. You are actively advised to report someone if they make you feel the slightest bit uncomfortable. It is, or was, one of the tips that appeared on the loading screen before a match. Reports used to be taken more seriously, for use when a player did something against the ToS or Summoner's Code, now you're encouraged to report every little thing that offended you. I can only guess as to how we got here. No one seems to know what the Summoner's Code is to begin with, let alone be able to tell me what's in it- that's a part of the problem right there. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/get-started/summoners-code/

Not to mention the questionable balance choices that prioritize the top 1% of the playerbase and the popular champs with new skins, the unhealthy champion designs of recent years, the idolization of live streamers with seriously narcissistic personalities, and don't get me started on Tencent buying out Riot and Riot's subsequent descent to greedy madness: (from a Polygon article) "Now, thanks to Tencent's purchase, members of the studio will be able to participate in a "cash-based incentive program" that rewards them based on the company's overall success." No wonder they keep shoving more and more micro-transactions down our throats instead of improving the game, the bigger their numbers are at the end of the quarter, the bigger their bonus will be.

iMidg3tNov 12, 20191 votes

Did this guy typed this at you or some1 else?

GoodjobbobNov 12, 20191 votes

He was flaming both me and the diana. He was mad at diana in the early game and mad at me in the late game.

PerfecJhinNov 12, 20191 votes

All the riot white knights see toxicity, but everyone else can see its obviously pent up frustration with the state of the game. Riot has completely ruined this fucking game.

UpgradesNov 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

All the riot white knights see toxicity, but everyone else can see its obviously pent up frustration with the state of the game. Riot has completely ruined this fucking game.

Then dont play the fucking game, I shouldnt have to deal with a random taking their frustration out on me just because they're frustrated with the game. Sorry. Yes I can mute, but I shouldnt even have to get to that point in the first place..

Six Inch HealsNov 12, 20191 votes

You're both in the wrong, tbh.

The player was for obvious reasons, and so are you for subjecting people to your training without their consent in a mode where that shouldn't be the case. You aren't a bad person for trying, I want to be clear, so much as ranked isn't the arena to try new characters on. Your score and cs seem okay, but still.

BoppasNov 12, 20191 votes

Excuse me for it being jumbled together I just wanna make this quick and easy.

I see post like this alot "why not mute" "cuz i wanna communicate" "but you dont want to be flamed?" "no" they literally want nothing to do with you if they are flaming you.

If you are first timing or learning a champ just say in lobby "hey I am learning a new champ dont be mad at me if I do bad" not to sound rude but I dont understand how people like you cant take someone calling you bad and not muting its a 5v5 game if 1 is flaming you mute them telling someone Kill yourself in my opinion isnt bad but I can understand how it would be.

Riot literally tells you "if someone is being negative mute and report after game" how do you people ignore this? its not rocket science in my opinion this is one reason why the game is being ruined because everyone thinks they are so special and they can ignore the rules and make post and get all the free upvotes and attention they want you lost the game post game lobby waited for the dude to finish saying what he needed and then you screenshot it and made this post you dont want flame but you sit and wait for it to happen.

If you feel the need to downvote me thats fine but stop acting like you are so special flaming doesnt ruin the game inting afk griefing is what ruins the game flaming doesnt just come from nothing there is a cause and effect someone pisses you off they resort to flaming people literally dont get into games simply to flame adleast I dont think.

Mute Report after game short sweet and simple literally all you have to do.

BloodFislandManNov 13, 20191 votes

They need to make the game better, I've already given them plenty of suggestions.

OakinhoofNov 16, 20191 votes

Literally started to play this about a week ago and i'm already quitting. This game is way to toxic to new players it sucks cause i really did like this game but i cant do it. Do good luck to any new player out there i hope you have a better experience then i did.