Toxic people/payback

OneTrickandMorty·May 19, 2017·1 votes·357 views

two in one

The goal of banning people is to remove the people that are undesired in the game. Although still increasing company growth, regardless or infraction would it not be more logical to run a system like below. First ban for any serious offence should be 2 days/week explaining why they were banned Second ban for similar of same offence should be a month saying its a final warning and that you know what they are doing Third should be permanent ban.

what is your view on people who refuse to win a game for people who are just toxic all game.

So for an example if 2 people in my team were flaming one person , can you just refuse to try and win. Solely because in life would you really help someone being toxic towards you. my view is I wouldn't I just want this clarifying.

Since you're not doing anything wrong, you are just not playing to win since you don't want to carry toxic people.

15 Comments

ModThe DjinnMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oh JESUS ,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=p6TAQXr9,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-19T18:12:05.550+0000)Since you're not doing anything wrong, you are just not playing to win since you don't want to carry toxic people.

This is considered trolling or intentionally aiding the enemy team, and is indeed reportable. Remember that there may be other people on your team who DO want to win, and haven't been involved in the toxicity.

Either way, responding to toxic behavior by throwing a game isn't cool.

OneTrickandMortyMay 19, 20171 votes

I completely understand that is the case, although it just reinforces the issues of flaming people still get wins which is completely pointless.

ModThe DjinnMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oh JESUS ,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=p6TAQXr9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-19T18:36:23.670+0000)

I completely understand that is the case, although it just reinforces the issues of flaming people still get wins which is completely pointless.

Because other players on their team still want to win. It's just as bad to further ruin their attempts to win as it is for the toxic player to do that by being toxic in the first place.

Victories and punishments do not, and should not, go hand in hand. Winning/losing is part of League, not some sort of earned reward. The system will identify toxic players and punish them -- don't make innocent players pay an LP penalty in a winnable game just because you somehow feel it's justified to throw a game.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 19, 20171 votes

thats somewhat debatable. at the start of the game there are 4 other people on your team who want to win and 5 people on the enemy team. you could help more people have fun by making sure you lost the game. but you dont do it because it is a competition and most people want a fair game.

when it becomes clear that one of your teammates is a bad person however, it becomes much more murky ethically. which is right? to help 3 people win even though it will allow the bad person to win? or to help the 5 people on the other team. i would argue that the right thing to do is sometimes to help the enemy team to win.

ModThe DjinnMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MUSHROOM MIDGET,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=p6TAQXr9,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-19T19:03:35.141+0000)I would argue that the right thing to do is sometimes to help the enemy team to win.

You can argue that, but know that Riot strictly disagrees. League is ultimately a competitive game, and your job is to play to help your team, 100% of the time. You do NOT throw your teammate's chances under a bus simply because you have a guy on your team who is an asshole.

OneTrickandMortyMay 19, 20171 votes

The goal is always to win but looking at it from a perspective of a child. If a child moaned and moaned about something then finally got what he wanted. Subconsciously he will believe that is the best way to feel good and get what he wants. it's like being bullied all the time at school and then seeing that person getting run over dying. Morally it would be your duty to call an ambulance but in your mind, you're thinking that is karma paying him back. IWhy would you help someone who made you feel depressed and excluded as a person

ModThe DjinnMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oh JESUS ,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=p6TAQXr9,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-19T19:23:55.613+0000)Why would you help someone who made you feel depressed and excluded as a person

In this case, it's more like you see that person run over by a car, which also hit three other innocent bystanders (your uninvolved teammates). Your suggested response is to say "Eh. Bruce was a dick, so I'll not call 911 and I'll just let them all die," and then calling yourself justified for doing it.

It's unfair to the other players on your team, who now have to deal with TWO problematic people -- one who is being an ass, and another who is intentionally trying to make the entire team lose. You're being equally bad in different ways, and both of you are ruining the game experience for other players.

Again -- you're free to do what you want. Just know that Riot considers it a violation of community behavioral expectations, and so you may be punished for it.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 19, 20171 votes

im not talking about riots rules. im talking about right and wrong. would you help hitler just because you are german? or would you work against him even though it is against the rules

ModThe DjinnMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MUSHROOM MIDGET,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=p6TAQXr9,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-19T19:47:57.264+0000)

im not talking about riots rules. im talking about right and wrong. would you help hitler just because you are german? or would you work against him even though it is against the rules

Not going to engage in a discussion that goes into the Reduction ad Hitlerum discussion of asking me to defend Hitler.

I will simply say that it is a betrayal of your teammates to do throw a game, and the first rule of the Summoner's Code, which you agreed to abide by, is "Support Your Team." Given the context of League, I will say it is immoral to betray your teammate's trust like that.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 19, 20171 votes

just saying that obviously sometimes its appropriate to break the rules. sometimes there are no good choices and you have to decide for yourself which bad option is better.

ModThe DjinnMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MUSHROOM MIDGET,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=p6TAQXr9,comment-id=00000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-19T21:33:27.425+0000)

just saying that obviously sometimes its appropriate to break the rules. sometimes there are no good choices and you have to decide for yourself which bad option is better.

Almost certainly the one that will not get you banned. :P

SecondAirbaneMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MUSHROOM MIDGET,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=p6TAQXr9,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-19T19:03:35.141+0000)

thats somewhat debatable. at the start of the game there are 4 other people on your team who want to win and 5 people on the enemy team. you could help more people have fun by making sure you lost the game. but you dont do it because it is a competition and most people want a fair game.

when it becomes clear that one of your teammates is a bad person however, it becomes much more murky ethically. which is right? to help 3 people win even though it will allow the bad person to win? or to help the 5 people on the other team. i would argue that the right thing to do is sometimes to help the enemy team to win.

than have fun dropping divisions you wont climb with a mindset like that you are only using up your own LP for people that you probably will not see again for a long, long time

woodvsmurphMay 19, 20171 votes

Depends on why they are flaming. Ex: if a bot lane is 0/8/0 they probably shouldn't be playing at that elo. Are they 0/8/0 because they lost a few fights early, but continue to shove to enemy tower and force 2v2 fights vs people they fed (who now only beat them harder) and don't ward and die to jungle ganks because the enemy jungle and mid want a free snowball too? This is inting and SHOULD be a 2 week ban for the first offense. Or... Are they 0/8/0 because the enemy bot lane is a tryhard smurf, they lose an early fight, they played safely afterwards - sacrificing some cs in order to not keep feeding, but they get 4v2 dove all game while their team refuses to help them or pressure the rest of the map? In this case, they are not inting and do not deserve any flame or ban. So in scenario 1, the flamer might very well deserve to win - having only flamed after their advice (ward, hug tower, just farm, etc. type stuff - said nicely) was ignored multiple times (since the bot lane is now 0/8/0 apiece). Some people don't listen when you say something nicely but listen if you say it without sugar coating it. I don't understand why, and I don't like to be a toxic ass. But sometimes it is the only way people listen sadly. If my bot lane were in the second scenario - first off I would be pressuring the map and trying to tp down to help them whenever I could - I would not flame them. I would ask jg and mid to pressure map or rotate or just group 4 and hold towers. I would stick up for my bot lane in said scenario 2. So... maybe not all flame is entirely bad and not all flamers deserve to lose or be banned. When I started playing ranked around season 3 I believe, I got flamed by half my teammates because I was new and easily exploited by the enemy team. So I got stuck playing the (at the time) noob role - support. I didn't always like or understand what and why people told me to do/not do certain things, but I did my best to listen and learn. I didn't think most of them deserved to be banned or lose for flaming me - they were simply upset and didn't want me to lose them the game from doing the same stupid simple-to-correct mistakes all game. They didn't have the time to explain in detail why they told me to do or not do something. If I was clearly trying to listen and adjust my play based on what they were telling me, they would lay off and not keep flaming in most cases. When people are like that, I have no problems with them and don't see why people today can't let go of their fragile ego's and learn to just listen and learn from others.

SecondAirbaneMay 19, 20171 votes

this could work for the inting side of toxicity instead of having it escalated to the 3rd tier

woodvsmurphMay 19, 20171 votes

Someone claims as game is about to load that they are bronze 3 and playing on their friends silver 2 account. Too late for you to leave and you are not sure they are not just joking. In game, they feed. You are camped by enemy jungle but pull out a winning lane despite being 1v2 literally 15 min straight. Your mid and bot are behind - the mid being a feeding bronze 3. Jungler is even with enemy team but slow to engage when you NEED to get winning fights to turn game around. So you ask nicely 6 times over course of mid-game for everyone to group. You could split and 1v1 anyone, but your team isn't smart enough to not get engaged on and deleted 4v4 before you could tp in, so you just stay with them. But your mid who only has 2 kills - thanks to you leaving top and sacrificing some of your lead - keeps ignoring you and splitting solo. He never kills any towers, he loses every 1v1 as a zed, and even if he could 1v1, he would end up 1v2 because of the enemy shen. So after 6 times of patiently, nicely asking him to group as 5 (with him ignoring, costing you teamfights, and throwing away any chance of having an on-par 5v5); you tell him to stop being a selfish idiot and group up. Toxic? Yes. Deserving of a ban? You tell me. In my opinion - after 6 times of ignoring someone you know is way higher elo than you and the only one who did well in lane - and a 1v2 at that - you are being toxic and inting. At that point, I believe you have lost any right to being spoken to with extreme tact and kindness. If he'd listened after one or two times, whatever I can forgive. But intentionally splitting to throw away any chance to win over 10 times in a game is inexcusable in my book. So what is your verdict?