Banned for a good reason, still received ranked rewards

HodorsAZombieNow··6 votes·1,306 views

I'm not trying to disparage the outcry of summoners who didn't receive ranked rewards due to bans/restrictions, rather, I'd like to express appreciation for the window of time given by Riot to those who have been punished and still obtained the end of season bonuses. I know I for one said some pretty nasty stuff in chat to earn my ban, and even though I was punished by not earning a free skin and having to take two weeks from playing, I think it'd be completely understandable if those punished in a similar fashion as well as myself didn't receive the border/skin.

We all agreed to the Summoner's Code when we started playing, and people are entitled to nothing for free; even less entitled are those who break their word. Instead of all the hate toward the company for this particular decision, I think people should show some gratitude for the opportunity we had to earn the rewards even though we, in all honesty, acted like jerks.

15 Comments

M1CH43L3 votes

{quoted}

I'm not trying to disparage the outcry of summoners who didn't receive ranked rewards due to bans/restrictions, rather, I'd like to express appreciation for the window of time given by Riot to those who have been punished and still obtained the end of season bonuses. I know I for one said some pretty nasty stuff in chat to earn my ban, and even though I was punished by not earning a free skin and having to take two weeks from playing, I think it'd be completely understandable if those punished in a similar fashion as well as myself didn't receive the border/skin.

We all agreed to the Summoner's Code when we started playing, and people are entitled to nothing for free; even less entitled are those who break their word. Instead of all the hate toward the company for this particular decision, I think people should show some gratitude for the opportunity we had to earn the rewards even though we, in all honesty, acted like jerks.

I feel the opposite way. Riot should give players what they've earned. I mean this is a game. The behavior system is turning this into some kind of abomination. This isn't real life. It's a game and should be treated as such. It's supposed to be about fun and achievement. I also think that "ranked rewards" are a big part of the toxicity in and of themselves. Give the skin as the lowest reward, because that's what everyone wants. Give other things for the higher-ups, who likely aren't playing the game solely for the rewards, but because they want to compete on a super-human level. Give them better ways to show off their diamond-status or platinum-status in game. Unique wards, or something. Let people Silver and Below have the skin. It would reduce toxicity; I'm sure of it.

o Maui o2 votes

{quoted}

I feel the opposite way. Riot should give players what they've earned. I mean this is a game. The behavior system is turning this into some kind of abomination. This isn't real life. It's a game and should be treated as such.

It's Riot's game, and they've decided that they don't want toxicity to be a part of it. And do you honestly believe that other people don't deserve to be treated with respect and dignity just because you are playing a game?

It's supposed to be about fun and achievement. I also think that "ranked rewards" are a big part of the toxicity in and of themselves. Give the skin as the lowest reward, because that's what everyone wants. Give other things for the higher-ups, who likely aren't playing the game solely for the rewards, but because they want to compete on a super-human level. Give them better ways to show off their diamond-status or platinum-status in game. Unique wards, or something. Let people Silver and Below have the skin.

I feel the opposite way. The thing that everyone really wants should be the thing that is harder to get. Make people work for it, so the achievement is that much sweeter!

It would reduce toxicity; I'm sure of it.

I sincerely doubt this. People who become toxic over a mere skin will become toxic over all sorts of trivial things, and appeasing them would be counterproductive if the overall goal is to clean up League's community.

M1CH43L3 votes

It's Riot's game, and they've decided that they don't want toxicity to be a part of it. And do you honestly believe that other people don't deserve to be treated with respect and dignity just because you are playing a game?

It's Riot's game, but without players it's nothing. Do you know how many surveys and other crap they send to my e-mail? They're always essentially begging me for advice and money. But then when I need something, they tell me to eat a dick. Riot uses its players, it doesn't care about helping them in the least. They'll take care of minor problems, but anything major and you're on your own.

It's not that I don't think people should be treated well, it's that I understand where I am. It's like going to a strip club and being offended for seeing naked women. "Oh my god, do you walk around like that in public? Cover up please!" If you were at work, or you were out to eat, or you were at Starbucks, then yeah, I'd say treating people with dignity and respect was a pretty expected thing to do. But this is essentially like a football field where the whole team just chanted "tear 'em up, tear 'em up!" It's not the same thing. You're not asking them to "politely pass the toast". "Excuse me, kind Mundo sir, but would you please refrain from chasing the singed into the enemy jungle? You have died 9 times already and I would surely hate for your continued ineptitude to cost us lovely gents from winning this rousing good game." [Mundo reports you for using the word 'ineptitude' in reference to him].

No, what you say in games like this is much different. There's also a difference between saying something like, "you're trash" to the ezreal who is 0/5, and stealing your jungler's blue and telling him to "go eff himself". In the case of the ezreal it's probably true--at least in this particular game--but in the other scenario, you're just being a jerk for no reason. I feel like the main problem with this game is there are people who want to be able to throw every game, perform poorly, not pay attention, afk to feed their child, pick a champ they've got no idea how to play in ranked, and just generally do whatever they want without having anyone say anything derogatory towards them about it. Riot has convinced you that this behavior system is there so that chat in game reflects real life, but what's going on doesn't reflect real life at all. If someone on your soccer team is constantly not where he should be, sucks at his position, keeps getting handballs, doesn't pass when he should, and won't listen to criticism, then you're probably going to say some pretty nasty things to him at some point, because he actually deserves it.

Riot has convinced you that at no point do people deserve any harsh words.

I feel the opposite way. The thing that everyone really wants should be the thing that is harder to get. Make people work for it, so the achievement is that much sweeter!

So even if this "thing" that everyone wants contributes to more people being toxic you're okay with it. Yet you want less toxicity in game. You want everything. That's the problem.

I sincerely doubt this. People who become toxic over a mere skin will become toxic over all sorts of trivial things, and appeasing them would be counterproductive if the overall goal is to clean up League's community.

How's that 'cleaning up the league community' working for you? Season 6 is fast approaching and people are still as toxic as ever. Don't you get by now that what Riot's doing does not work? They keep dumping all of their eggs into the wrong basket. They're using band-aids to fight viruses.

I do think people become toxic over a mere skin. It's not just the fact that it's a free skin, but the fact that you have to get to GOLD to get it. It's everything involved. Yeah, some people just want to rank up, but a lot of the reason is for that new skin and to be viewed as a competent player. By Riot giving the skin to gold+ players, they are basically saying that anything below gold isn't respectable; it's trash. So you have over half of Riot's community thinking they're trash (because of standards that Riot has set themselves); trying to fight tooth-and-nail to get somewhere respectable so that they don't have to endure the shame from their community. From what I've noticed, bronze people really are either terrible at the game, or just very casual players. Silver players, on the other hand, can range anywhere from terrible to 'holy crap, what's this guy doing in silver--is he a smurf?' So yeah, I think Silver shouldn't be regarded in the way that it is. There are actually some really good players there. I actually think more silver players should be in bronze, because there's a huge skill discrepancy in that bracket. There are too many really bad players who got lucky in their placements, or who manage to get carried every game simply because they don't explicitly feed. So I feel that the ranking system itself and the way Riot presents tiers contributes to toxicity.

Now am I saying that ranked is the sole reason people are toxic? No. I think there are many reasons, including ones that you can't know about or fix, because they have to do with the person themselves and what's going on in their life. However, if you can fix even one thing that contributes to toxicity, why wouldn't you? You seem to have this mindset that people who are toxic should be burned at the stake. We shouldn't try to figure out why it happens or make decisions that might cause them to be less toxic; we should just seek them out and destroy them! But the problem with that is "toxic" isn't a disease. It's not like aids where you either have it or you don't. "Toxicity" is a state of mind; a way of acting. Anyone can do something toxic at some point. So why not try and eliminate those things that cause people to fall into toxicity rather than assuming that anyone who has ever been toxic is evil?

o Maui o2 votes

So to use your analogy, you think that League of Legends is a strip club. Riot does not want to be a strip club, so they are enforcing a No Shit No Shoes No Service policy, and you are angry at them because you think that they should be a strip club. Is that about right?

Analogy aside--toxicity is a choice, and the people who make that choice are wrong, and they need to stop. Certain circumstances make that choice somewhat more understandable, but there is no circumstance that makes that choice acceptable. For that reason I think that Riot would be wrong to cater their rewards system to the ugliest, whiniest, least deserving members of the community. Instead, they should do what they are doing--reward effort, skill, and good sportsmanship. Compromising that to appease toxic players hurts everyone, including the toxic players who now have one less incentive to change their ways.

M1CH43L1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mars Ragnarok,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=p5qN4xob,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-16T01:40:26.046+0000)

So to use your analogy, you think that League of Legends is a strip club. Riot does not want to be a strip club, so they are enforcing a No Shit No Shoes No Service policy, and you are angry at them because you think that they should be a strip club. Is that about right?

Analogy aside--toxicity is a choice, and the people who make that choice are wrong, and they need to stop. Certain circumstances make that choice somewhat more understandable, but there is no circumstance that makes that choice acceptable. For that reason I think that Riot would be wrong to cater their rewards system to the ugliest, whiniest, least deserving members of the community. Instead, they should do what they are doing--reward effort, skill, and good sportsmanship. Compromising that to appease toxic players hurts everyone, including the toxic players who now have one less incentive to change their ways.

No, what I'm saying is that League of Legends IS a strip club, complete with naked women and everything that goes along with it. But if you're caught staring at them you get tossed out. I'm saying that if you go into the strip club business you should expect certain things from your customers.

But let's use what this is really closer to--a group MMA fight. You psyche yourself up to beat your opponents. Your goal is to beat them into oblivion (kill their avatar). The act of killing their avatar and having tea with them do not go hand in hand. The very nature of the game is aggressive. I'm not saying that you should spit on people once you've knocked them out, but certain things should be expected.

Let's clear up right here and now that "toxic" is a propaganda word. It's something Riot decided to sling around to encompass basically anything they deem as wrong. Toxicity in itself is not "wrong". If it was wrong then shows like Hell's Kitchen wouldn't exist.

"Ugliest, whiniest, least deserving members of society". Your bias completely shows through. Again, you're viewing toxicity as if it defines who a person is. It's not like down syndrome. It's not something you're born with and can never change. It's not "who you are". Anyone can become toxic at any moment, and only FOR a moment. By your stance, if you've ever gotten angry and said something in anger, I guess that means you're a toxic person and should be in jail. Let's remove you from society.

Taking away rewards doesn't compromise anything. It's not an incentive to change. The 14-day ban and prospect of getting permabanned is the incentive. All that losing rewards does is punish someone twice, which is a toxic punishment; it's unethical. It also only seems to apply within the last 3 months of a season. If you were toxic all last season but stopped playing 3 months before season end, you get your rewards. Conversely, if you were good all season and became toxic in one game during the last 3 months of a season, you lose your rewards. How does that make sense?

The problem with Riot (and this community) is that they've set up a divide. Rather than seeing all players as people they've branded them into "toxic" and "non-toxic". So I don't completely blame you for falling for their propaganda. Most people can't see through things like this. That's how Hitler came into power. "These people are bad and need to be exterminated", "These people are fine". It's separation tactics at its best. Rather than seeing all players as human and seeing "toxicity" (really hate that word by the way) as
something that happens from time to time in the life of all humans, Riot has actually managed to convince themselves, you, and much of the community, that it's a defining characteristic rather than a passing state of being.

You could argue that some people never display toxicity. You're right, I'm sure that some never type mean things in chat, even to trolls. But that doesn't make them better people or more deserving of anything. Some people are more boisterous in real life too. Others are more silent. Some people have outgoing personalities, others don't. Some people will tell you exactly what they think, right to your face, and never lie. Others will avoid confrontation, hide what they really think, and just try to get along until they can go back home and decompress. What you're doing is branding the people who have ever said anything negative in chat as fundamentally flawed; basically something that needs to be exterminated.

My guess is that you've encountered people in-game who seemed to pick on you for almost no reason and just get under your skin. They ruined the game and made you upset to the point that you didn't immediately play another game but perhaps logged off for a while. Nothing you did was right to them and they were sure to pick on every mistake you made which only caused you to make more mistakes. They really contributed nothing good to the game and it makes you angry that people like this are allowed to play the game. You want these people to suffer for their actions. Yeah, so do I. That's a human thing. That's also a toxic attitude to have towards people. But it's understandable. That's also not what I'm talking about here. There is a big difference between people who get frustrated and go off in a game and the people who are just generally douchebags in every facet of their lives. Riot (and you) have lumped them all into the same pile. It's not the same thing.

o Maui o2 votes

{quoted}

No, what I'm saying is that League of Legends IS a strip club, complete with naked women and everything that goes along with it. But if you're caught staring at them you get tossed out. I'm saying that if you go into the strip club business you should expect certain things from your customers.

Again, you don't get to decide that. The community doesn't get to decide what businesses is their neighborhood are and aren't strip clubs. You can continue believing that it should be a strip club, and that its owners should just give up and let it be a strip club, and your belief will not stop said owners from continuing to enforce their "this is not a strip club" policies.

But let's use what this is really closer to--a group MMA fight. You psyche yourself up to beat your opponents. Your goal is to beat them into oblivion (kill their avatar). The act of killing their avatar and having tea with them do not go hand in hand. The very nature of the game is aggressive. I'm not saying that you should spit on people once you've knocked them out, but certain things should be expected.

This is not a fight. It is a video game. You'd be better off comparing it to a team sport (though still an imperfect analogy, to be sure, since most players involved are amateurs, but the business that operates the game is privately owned).

Let's clear up right here and now that "toxic" is a propaganda word. It's something Riot decided to sling around to encompass basically anything they deem as wrong. Toxicity in itself is not "wrong". If it was wrong then shows like Hell's Kitchen wouldn't exist.

  1. Riot is perfectly within their rights to determine that something is wrong within the purview of the game that they own.

  2. Riot's definition of toxicity is clearly not arbitrary, since you can identify toxicity in other media.

  3. The people in charge of reality TV shows tolerate and often promote toxicity because it is compelling television, as is their right because it's their TV show. Riot does not tolerate toxicity in their game, nor should they have to.

Taking away rewards doesn't compromise anything. It's not an incentive to change. The 14-day ban and prospect of getting permabanned is the incentive. All that losing rewards does is punish someone twice, which is a toxic punishment; it's unethical. It also only seems to apply within the last 3 months of a season.

People receive these sorts of double-punishments all the time. Fine and jail time, or fine and community service, or suspension and a remedial course. It is by itself neither unusual nor unethical.

M1CH43L1 votes

Again, you don't get to decide that. The community doesn't get to decide what businesses is their neighborhood are and aren't strip clubs. You can continue believing that it should be a strip club, and that its owners should just give up and let it be a strip club, and your belief will not stop said owners from continuing to enforce their "this is not a strip club" policies.

Again, it's not a matter of opinion. It IS a strip club. Let me say this another way since you're not comprehending it. Basketball is a sport. It will never be an olive. It will never be a gameshow. It will never be a presidential debate. It will always be a sport. League will always be a MOBA. In fact, League considers itself a sport so the previous analogy actually works. My contention is that certain behaviors go hand in hand with all sports. And certain behaviors go hand in hand with all MOBA's. There are just certain core emotions, behaviors, functions, etc, that go along with certain classifications. To ignore them is naive, and it's the reason Riot is having so much trouble "combating toxicity".

This is not a fight. It is a video game. You'd be better off comparing it to a team sport (though still an imperfect analogy, to be sure, since most players involved are amateurs, but the business that operates the game is privately owned).

You're bringing up things that have nothing to do with each other. League actually IS a team sport (as I said in the above paragraph). It's a certain kind of sport. Trying to take aggression out of league is like trying to take "getting hurt" out of football. Sure, you can put hefty penalties on players who injure other players, but the nature of the sport itself makes this idea kinda stupid. Much like Riot's war on toxicity. And I'm not saying that people should necessarily be able to just spam racial slurs all game; but getting into a heated argument and constant hate speech are two entirely different things. One should be expected, the other not so much.

  1. Riot is perfectly within their rights to determine that something is wrong within the purview of the game that they own.
  1. Riot's definition of toxicity is clearly not arbitrary, since you can identify toxicity in other media.
  1. The people in charge of reality TV shows tolerate and often promote toxicity because it is compelling television, as is their right because it's their TV show. Riot does not tolerate toxicity in their game, nor should they have to.
  1. Never said Riot wasn't within their rights. Just saying they make bad decisions. Sure they're allowed to, but it's stupid.

  2. Can you? I can slap the word "toxic" onto any behavior that I don't like. Any behavior that is offensive to anybody. When you create a tag-word like this and throw it around everywhere without defining exactly what it means/what constitutes it, you run into problems.

  3. I agree, they shouldn't have to if they don't want to. I'm all for a free country. I'm just saying that they don't know what they're doing in regards to toxicity. They've been fighting this fight since the game began and things are more toxic now than ever before. They're also, in my opinion (i feel like you don't get that what i type is all my opinion so i'm clarifying), ruining gaming society and ruining their own community. They did the whole 'war on toxicity' wrong from the start. And now they don't know what to do with the monster they've created.

People receive these sorts of double-punishments all the time. Fine and jail time, or fine and community service, or suspension and a remedial course. It is by itself neither unusual nor unethical.

I probably should have said "punishment after the fact" instead of double punishment, since that's really more of what they did. If someone gets sent to jail, and they serve their time and are released, they aren't suddenly given more jail time 3 months later because of what they did before. No, they are given one punishment, which may be broken into multiple parts, but it's still one punishment. It's one sentence. Not two.

In the case of this game there are more layers involved that make what they did unethical, and I'm not sure you want to read them all, so here's a quick summary: There was the new automated system which changed the way toxicity was handled; there was the confusion within Riot itself about ranked rewards up until right before people lost them; there was the inconsistency with who gets rewards and who doesn't; time element (if you're toxic the first 3 months but not the last 3 you're fine, if it's the reverse, you're screwed); the fact that the dual punishment doesn't actually contribute to reform in any way; and the general flaws in the system that have existed since the onset.

nerak232 votes

WoW really OP :) Thanks for being stand up about it. Threads like this make it easier for me to believe in giving a person second chances as Riot has been indicating all along. Thanks OP Good Luck in the future.

TexWinchester2 votes

I am in a weird spot because 2 of my friends just recently quit due to the fact they didn't receive their rewards for pushing to diamond 5 and plat 1 because they bother lost their temper in chat because of a guy purposefully throwing their game to de-rank himself. Now I not only have lost my 2 mentors but 2 friends that I enjoyed playing this game with all because they got in trouble once. I would gladly give up my rewards for them since they worked much harder to get to their rankings then I did to get Gold V.

October11th2 votes

I dont know I didnt receive any rewards this season and Ive been diamond since S3. I got banned for the first time in 2? 3? years because I lost my temper that day and didnt behave properly. I was punished for it and was banned for 2 weeks and I served my punishment fully. Losing my temper on that day doesnt represent my entire game plays/behaviors in S5 and denying my entire year's of plays just because of that is just too harsh. My opinion.

M1CH43L1 votes

{quoted}

I dont know I didnt receive any rewards this season and Ive been diamond since S3. I got banned for the first time in 2? 3? years because I lost my temper that day and didnt behave properly. I was punished for it and was banned for 2 weeks and I served my punishment fully. Losing my temper on that day doesnt represent my entire game plays/behaviors in S5 and denying my entire year's of plays just because of that is just too harsh. My opinion.

Yep, I agree. What's worse is there are people who were toxic all year but stopped during the last 3 months and still got rewards. And anyone who is toxic after nov 11th will still keep their rewards. That's why this 'losing ranked rewards' is such BS. Either make it the entire year or don't make it at all. All they're doing is screwing over a portion of their players for NO REASON.

ShaftyMegee2 votes

Um, I don't understand what you're trying to say....

nerak231 votes

This isn't real life. It's a game and should be treated as such.

If this isn't real life then what is the point in complaining about it so much ?

I feel like on the boards your out to convince everyone how screwed Riot is. That's your right and Your opinion but you do realize Most people don't want toxic players in the game with them. It very real, I am really sitting here typing a message to you. I'm a real person typing about a real thing.

Just because you or I can take some harassment and not get rude about it doesn't mean everyone can.Nor should they have to.

The whole point of a Punishment is to well punish...it is suppose to hurt !

M1CH43L2 votes

{quoted}

If this isn't real life then what is the point in complaining about it so much ?

I feel like on the boards your out to convince everyone how screwed Riot is. That's your right and Your opinion but you do realize Most people don't want toxic players in the game with them. It very real, I am really sitting here typing a message to you. I'm a real person typing about a real thing.

Just because you or I can take some harassment and not get rude about it doesn't mean everyone can.Nor should they have to.

The whole point of a Punishment is to well punish...it is suppose to hurt !

But a double-punishment is unethical and overkill. Also, Riot's system is not a "punishment" system, it's a "reform" system. Or at least, that's what it was supposed to be. The idea is that if a player can't change their behavior to Riot's standards, that they will be removed from the game. But a player who does reform still gets punished. It's nonsensical in every way and largely considered wrong to do.

The point in complaining so much is because I don't want other games to take on this model and I don't want stupid sheep going around thinking this model works. I don't want every game I play from now into infinity to cater to carebears with fragile egos. I sure don't want every game I play from now on to implement broken behavior systems, punish their players twice for 'misconduct' (seriously...misconduct in a game? really?), or become so strict that literally anything you say can be considered "toxic". I actually hate that word now.

When you say that people shouldn't have to take harassment you're fighting a losing battle. The game itself brings about this stuff and it will always exist. People get heated when their promos are on the line, or someone is feeding, or somone is trolling, or someone goes afk. People get mad when they screw up and someone calls them on it. This is human nature. At certain points people are going to fly off the handle. That should be understood rather than trying to turn people into unfeeling robots. This game isn't like going into the local starbucks or going into work. This game is like being on the soccer field or basketball court. There's trash talk sometimes. There's bad feelings sometimes. There's testosterone and aggression by its very nature. And the biggest difference is that it's a pick-up game every time. It's not like these are your actual teammates. It's not like you're friends with these people or anything. These are random people that you're playing with; it's always easier to admonish random people or get angry towards random people; even in real life. Think about just the act of driving to work. You might get irritated by someone tailgating you and cuss them out or flick them off. But if it was your mom who happened to be behind you, or a friend of yours, you probably wouldn't get so hostile.

The thing is, Riot's whole system is wrong. The way they go about everything is wrong. Toxicity is NOT disappearing at all; it's actually getting worse. I personally have decided to never spend money on this game ever again because of the way they handled themselves this season and I'm currently checking out other MOBAS. The behavior system needs to be scrapped and they really need to look at what's causing the excessive behaviors if they really want to try and combat this. The reason anyone plays this game is because they enjoy the game, not because they love the behavior system.

nerak231 votes

What was the old saying ??

Throw enough shit on the wall and something will stick ? Close enough ;)

We all agreed to the Summoner's Code

Yep, we did that should be the end of it.

But when people try to argue every angle at some point, they get agreed with and in the end it ends up being a big wall of text saying ....I agree to the rules--But Now I want a bunch of free shit and I'm pissed I/we/them didn't get it.

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