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Is this really worthy of being permanently banned over? --- does the system really catch 'feeding'?

pls no ban··1 votes·523 views

For full clarity, I was hit with a 14 day suspension for these chat logs (no edit, only 1 game in logs)

pls no ban: jnust play pls no ban: 4 min in pls no ban: no pls no ban: play pls no ban: then we'll all report you pls no ban: so go for it pls no ban: report cait pls pls no ban: 9x our toxic/afk cait pls pls no ban: gg pls no ban: sorry whats troll about this? pls no ban: Says the afk feeding caitlyn lol pls no ban: go read morg changes this patch pls no ban: you toxic fuck pls no ban: ur fine shen pls no ban: imagine fi you didn't whine and feed a 2nd kill and afk for 3 minutes pls no ban: i like you urgot pls no ban: positive man pls no ban: u big bo pls no ban: just win game, report cait pls no ban: and everyone move on pls no ban: we got this pls no ban: you're admitting to inting and telling your team to stfu pls no ban: im in no way flaming. pls no ban: lol whatever you say cait pls no ban: riot will deal with you pls no ban: great job everyone else, keep it up we can win this. pls no ban: thx bb pls no ban: ur owning urself pls no ban: good work, keep it up team pls no ban: stack top pls no ban: im gonna use my wee lad bot pls no ban: xin bhind us pls no ban: gg pls no ban: its our only hope pls no ban: good shit urgod pls no ban: gg pls no ban: nice try everyone

I appealed them, and was told that my suspension was based around the fact that I requested for the other team to report someone, called our ADC a "toxic fuck" and made a comment about Riot dealing with the individual (lol the irony) --- While I vehemently disagreed with the decision (due to sample size, and the fact our Caitlyn was quite literally intentionally feeding in ranked, and AFKing, and went unpunished) I accepted I had no legs to stand on.

A few weeks later, I leave a game to a permanent ban.

"Game 1 pls no ban: no pls no ban: that's actually just stupid as fuck pls no ban: you don't need to start in lane pls no ban: leash the jungle pls no ban: don't be a troll pls no ban: I know you won't carry pls no ban: because in no ELO outside of bronze/silver is refusing to leash a thing pls no ban: nice CS pls no ban: this xayah been talking shit pls no ban: refused to leash pls no ban: yep :/ pls no ban: yep, I support the yi pls no ban: and we win pls no ban: why you gotta be so toxic man? pls no ban: hi friend pls no ban: correction pls no ban: you said you'd carry us pls no ban: but ur feeding and griefing and being toxic pls no ban: at what point? pls no ban: you've been behind since the first 5 minutes pls no ban: but okay pls no ban: glad to know ur inting pls no ban: solid item when you're supporting a hyper carry that can tower dive pls no ban: but will be hard to win, our adc is admittedly inting pls no ban: report xayah please :) pls no ban: gg pls no ban: you are inting pls no ban: and being toxic pls no ban: how is that Yi's fault Game 2 pls no ban: Thanks for the leash dude pls no ban: I know how shoving works my boy pls no ban: fair pls no ban: oh ur very fed pls no ban: ok pls no ban: stop feeding pls no ban: you ape pls no ban: sit under tower and farm pls no ban: not a hard concept pls no ban: :D pls no ban: feelsgoodman pls no ban: ur 1/6 pls no ban: pls dont talk about my decisions pls no ban: report our lucian please pls no ban: ^ pls no ban: I think reporting you will save other people from having to deal with a feeding mid laner though :) pls no ban: good to know pls no ban: so you're inting and trolling because you think you're unbannable pls no ban: the game was over after you went 0-4 and trolled pls no ban: and now you're trolling harder pls no ban: nope pls no ban: which boosting website did you use? pls no ban: getting your account suspended over flex queue pls no ban: :/ pls no ban: why not just play the game pls no ban: and not troll? pls no ban: report lucian pls no ban: gg"

For context, our ADC told our Yi Jungle that he refused to leash Red and that he had to start blue because he wouldn't help, hence the "that's stupid as fuck" comment ---

The only remotely toxic comment I feel I made in either of those games were asking Lucian what boosting website he used, after one of the other players in my game accused him of buying his Platinum rank (which he was boastful about, despite being 1/8 and intentionally feeding/flaming the entire team). In both of the aforementioned games, we had an individual who was intentionally feeding, admitting to "giving up" and "not trying" and was being toxic to the rest of the team (As of right now, neither player had any action taken against their accounts despite feeding). I have had an account permanently banned in the past (a year and a half or so ago) in which I was genuinely toxic, and can admit I used poor language and displayed truly unsportsmanlike attitude. I feel like since then I have really reformed, and have been working hard on both my attitude and language in-game (I rarely use any form of profanity, and try to avoid arguing with teammates). I have a smurf I play regularly that hasn't gotten so much as a chat ban in over 200 games, yet this account found a way to go from a chat ban to a 14 day to a permanent ban in a matter of a month and a half. I put in a support request hoping they will check into it and agree that these texts are not deserving of a permanent ban.

However, given the full logs, and the fact that Riot overturning bans and suspensions quite literally never happens, I wanted to see if the community sided with their decision, and if so if they would give me constructive criticism so I could avoid this in the future.

These are all the chat logs, with no modifications, additions, or subtractions.

12 Comments

All of the noobs3 votes

This is beyond ironic.

You name your account "pls no ban" but you've been penaltied/ banned multiple times. You call people toxic, but you're honestly disgusting/ toxic yourself. You tell people to stop feeding, but you're feeding yourself. You say riot will deal with people for reasons you think is valid, but in the end you were the one being dealt with.

The first thing to notice in these 3 logs is that you're starting EARLY with your toxicity. Do you honestly think Riven 'talking early on is going to give you an advantage? Real talk, who wants someone like you in their game. My faith in our penalty system grows everyday.

In any other game that includes a mute system (WoW's ignore system being the most prevalent example) you cannot be banned for in-game comments unless they are incredibly toxic (racism, telling people to end their lives in any way, personal threats, etc).

About this. WoW and LoL is two Completely different games, especially in maturity & limits. If you're being a Riven in wow you'll get removed from the raid/ group and most likely ignored AND you'll have bad name on yourself if you happend to be grouped with the affected players. This is also something that will follow you if you're applying to guilds. In short, MANY consequences which "IMO" is worse than a silence.

In LoL, we sadly dont have these options. If you're toxic in a game, we'll have to struggle with you throughout the entire game- most likely lose the game because of your attitude and behaviour issues. We cant replace you mid game, we're unable to avoid being placed with you and if we were so unlucky to be placed with you again we'll have to lose valuable LP and time to avoid you.

In short, the consequences of being toxic in both games is BEYOND different. The fact you're even comparing LoL to other games in this topic... is just completely mind blown.

https://giphy.com/gifs/nba-shocked-3oFzmnS7tnVojfLP6E

pls no ban1 votes

[{quoted}](name=All of the noobs,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=o84bEvIT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-12T10:21:38.020+0000)

This is beyond ironic.

You name your account "pls no ban" but you've been penaltied/ banned multiple times. You call people toxic, but you're honestly disgusting/ toxic yourself. You tell people to stop feeding, but you're feeding yourself. You say riot will deal with people for reasons you think is valid, but in the end you were the one being dealt with.

The first thing to notice in these 3 logs is that you're starting EARLY with your toxicity. Do you honestly think Riven 'talking early on is going to give you an advantage? Real talk, who wants someone like you in their game. My faith in our penalty system grows everyday.

About this. WoW and LoL is two Completely different games, especially in maturity & limits. If you're being a Riven in wow you'll get removed from the raid/ group and most likely ignored AND you'll have bad name on yourself if you happend to be grouped with the affected players. This is also something that will follow you if you're applying to guilds. In short, MANY consequences which "IMO" is worse than a silence.

In LoL, we sadly dont have these options. If you're toxic in a game, we'll have to struggle with you throughout the entire game- most likely lose the game because of your attitude and behaviour issues. We cant replace you mid game, we're unable to avoid being placed with you and if we were so unlucky to be placed with you again we'll have to lose valuable LP and time to avoid you.

In short, the consequences of being toxic in both games is BEYOND different. The fact you're even comparing LoL to other games in this topic... is just completely mind blown.

https://giphy.com/gifs/nba-shocked-3oFzmnS7tnVojfLP6E

I don't think irony plays a part here. My name is in direct reference to the fact I made the account after being permanently banned (For MUCH worse behaviour, admittedly) and made a name I thought was funny to give my friends a laugh.

Ad hominem attacks don't seem fair; you're calling me disgusting and toxic based on what, exactly? Also no, in all three of the games in the chat logs, the players were admitting to feeding and throwing the game, or AFKing, or refusing to leash for the jungler because "they don't leash noobs" --- I never say anything to someone who is trying and being a team player, it is only when someone is intentionally griefing the game that I took problem with it, hence only 3 chat cards in close to 100 games. Also, I don't feed; ever.

That last part is rather ironic... heh.

In the first game (my 14 day) and the most recent, yes, the messages started within the first two minutes, because the individuals in that game I was speaking at were threatening to AFK, feed, or saying they were going to feed --- that is also the outlier, not the usual in my history, or I would have more cards.

I play WoW, at a top level and am well known in that community; I disagree with your point entirely but that is neither here nor there.

"Attitude" and "Behaviour" issues are subjective, in-game throwing is not. The point I raised is to question why people get banned for their language, or desire to engage in banter/argue with a teammate --- if you do these things in traditional sports, there is no consequence, it is just a part of the game. I understand extreme behaviour (slurs, telling people to kill themselves in any way/shape/form or personal threats) being bannable, but telling someone to stop feeding, or calling for them to be reported for feeding, should not be bannable in the eyes of many people. Again, you're missing my point entirely.

Yes, I understand that you were able to cherry pick the game (WoW) with different systemic values; but you casually chose to ignore DOTA, Smite, HoTS and Overwatch, all with near-identical values and punishment/reward systems that choose to deal with chat bans very differently (and rarely in-game ban).

{quoted}

I think I remember you complaining about a ban a few months ago....

Negative, I have never posted on these forums before.

{quoted}

You had an account permabanned before. You have a smurf who has gotten punishments. Now this account is permabanned.

And you still think it's not your fault? Be real man, you're toxic af. You're not pleasant to play with, you ruin the mood in every game, and wonder why people report you. The answer is very clear: Nobody wants to play with you because you make this game unfun. So either change your behavior or expect your smurf account to go down just like your 2 permabanned main accounts. If you won't change, we'll soon see another whine post on the forum about someone claiming he got unrightfully banned...

Yes. Negative. My smurf is clean. Yes.

I admitted my original ban was absolutely deserved. I think it's a bit egregious that the text logs shared above constitute 'justification' for a permanent ban, let alone a 14 day one.

Is it being "toxic af" to defend your teammates when they are being flamed by someone, as was the case in the first game where Caitlyn said somethign to the extent of "Fuck our support, I'm going AFK" and stood in base after suiciding, or the second game where Lucian dove their towers and ran it down mid, or the third game where Xayah said "you guys suck I'm not trying" and proceeded to run into their team? Is it "toxic af" to tell someone who is ADMITTING to feeding, to stop feeding and play safe? Is it "toxic af" to ask the other team report someone for intentionally feeding, ruining the game for the other 9 people?

I get it if I am attacking people who are trying, I get it if I am being an asshole and calling people a ton of names, and using slurs, but none of that occurred in any of the games. The worst thing I said is when I called someone a toxic fuck for spam pinging me and telling me I was fucking garbage because I was playing Morgana Jungle (while she was strong for those few days)

You've never played with me, so to assume I am unpleasant to play with off of an at best 3% of my games sample size, is just unfair. If this behaviour was the overwhelming majority of my games, or even a comfortable minority, I would understand, but again, two bad games out of at least one hundred (and not very bad games, to be fair) justify losing an entire account? When I was previously banned, I deserved it, but it took MONTHS from my 14 day to my permanent ban, and I said a lot worse things when I was offended or annoyed (I had a 6 game card when I was banned finally).

The only reason you are so quick to assume I am the problem is I was willing to admit I was banned before for actually toxic behaviour; had I left that information out, the attitude would completely shift because in your eyes I am inherently toxic and just being a repeat offender at this point.

All of the noobs1 votes

[{quoted}](name=pls no ban,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=o84bEvIT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-02-12T22:50:25.966+0000)

I don't think irony plays a part here. My name is in direct reference to the fact I made the account after being permanently banned (For MUCH worse behaviour, admittedly) and made a name I thought was funny to give my friends a laugh.

Ad hominem attacks don't seem fair; you're calling me disgusting and toxic based on what, exactly? Also no, in all three of the games in the chat logs, the players were admitting to feeding and throwing the game, or AFKing, or refusing to leash for the jungler because "they don't leash noobs" --- I never say anything to someone who is trying and being a team player, it is only when someone is intentionally griefing the game that I took problem with it, hence only 3 chat cards in close to 100 games. Also, I don't feed; ever.

That last part is rather ironic... heh.

In the first game (my 14 day) and the most recent, yes, the messages started within the first two minutes, because the individuals in that game I was speaking at were threatening to AFK, feed, or saying they were going to feed --- that is also the outlier, not the usual in my history, or I would have more cards.

I play WoW, at a top level and am well known in that community; I disagree with your point entirely but that is neither here nor there.

"Attitude" and "Behaviour" issues are subjective, in-game throwing is not. The point I raised is to question why people get banned for their language, or desire to engage in banter/argue with a teammate --- if you do these things in traditional sports, there is no consequence, it is just a part of the game. I understand extreme behaviour (slurs, telling people to kill themselves in any way/shape/form or personal threats) being bannable, but telling someone to stop feeding, or calling for them to be reported for feeding, should not be bannable in the eyes of many people. Again, you're missing my point entirely.

Yes, I understand that you were able to cherry pick the game (WoW) with different systemic values; but you casually chose to ignore DOTA, Smite, HoTS and Overwatch, all with near-identical values and punishment/reward systems that choose to deal with chat bans very differently (and rarely in-game ban).

Negative, I have never posted on these forums before.

Yes. Negative. My smurf is clean. Yes.

I admitted my original ban was absolutely deserved. I think it's a bit egregious that the text logs shared above constitute 'justification' for a permanent ban, let alone a 14 day one.

Is it being "toxic af" to defend your teammates when they are being flamed by someone, as was the case in the first game where Caitlyn said somethign to the extent of "Fuck our support, I'm going AFK" and stood in base after suiciding, or the second game where Lucian dove their towers and ran it down mid, or the third game where Xayah said "you guys suck I'm not trying" and proceeded to run into their team? Is it "toxic af" to tell someone who is ADMITTING to feeding, to stop feeding and play safe? Is it "toxic af" to ask the other team report someone for intentionally feeding, ruining the game for the other 9 people?

I get it if I am attacking people who are trying, I get it if I am being an asshole and calling people a ton of names, and using slurs, but none of that occurred in any of the games. The worst thing I said is when I called someone a toxic fuck for spam pinging me and telling me I was fucking garbage because I was playing Morgana Jungle (while she was strong for those few days)

You've never played with me, so to assume I am unpleasant to play with off of an at best 3% of my games sample size, is just unfair. If this behaviour was the overwhelming majority of my games, or even a comfortable minority, I would understand, but again, two bad games out of at least one hundred (and not very bad games, to be fair) justify losing an entire account? When I was previously banned, I deserved it, but it took MONTHS from my 14 day to my permanent ban, and I said a lot worse things when I was offended or annoyed (I had a 6 game card when I was banned finally).

The only reason you are so quick to assume I am the problem is I was willing to admit I was banned before for actually toxic behaviour; had I left that information out, the attitude would completely shift because in your eyes I am inherently toxic and just being a repeat offender at this point.

Mirrior mirror on the wall, who's the most delusional of us all. After reading your creative post, I just had to drop by again. The most silly thing you could do, is to reply to this. You made a **massive ** fool of yourself, but now you really put the cherry on the top.

https://giphy.com/gifs/duh-weird-face-y4E6VumnBbIfm

pls no ban1 votes

[{quoted}](name=All of the noobs,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=o84bEvIT,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-13T10:50:46.022+0000)

Mirrior mirror on the wall, who's the most delusional of us all. After reading your creative post, I just had to drop by again. The most silly thing you could do, is to reply to this. You made a **massive ** fool of yourself, but now you really put the cherry on the top.

https://giphy.com/gifs/duh-weird-face-y4E6VumnBbIfm

Is your name not toxic in it of itself? Noobs is a derogatory title for people who are new and bad at a game.

My point is that you are just using bias to make a ridiculous assumption with no facts to substantiate your opinion. Not once did you refer to the logs I linked, or discuss them directly; instead using roundabout ideologies to label me as toxic.

I guess using GIFs and judging others based on ridiculous assumptions makes you feel superior, though.

All of the noobs1 votes

Omfg im actually crying.

redniwediS2 votes

It's definitely worth a chat ban, and since Riot uses a tiered punishment system if you have already had chat bans a 14 day ban could have been up next. In this day and age no one should call another person an ape and not expect a punishment.

pls no ban1 votes

To be fair, this game was over three weeks ago, but it was Flex Queue and one of our friends was muted in Discord, so I am about 90% sure I was calling him an ape, not the individual who was feeding. We all call eachother apes and monkeys, so it wasn't as it seems -- but even then, why would calling someone an ape be bannable? The only logical explanation would be that it could be deemed racist, but that is such a stretch that I think it would be ridiculous to assume or insinuate that to begin with.

May I ask besides that why it is worthy of a chat ban? I'm not criticizing your opinion, just curious to your reasoning behind it, as your answer seemingly lacks reason, at least in your explanation.

redniwediS2 votes

The automated system doesn't really care too much about context, even though you or I might. Did you make sure the context of these games was explained in your support ticket?

That said, Riot takes a very "if you're not being positive you're being negative" approach to chat, and the following lines are not exactly constructive or helpful, and can degrade the play environment.

pls no ban: then we'll all report you pls no ban: so go for it pls no ban: report cait pls pls no ban: 9x our toxic/afk cait pls

There's no actual reason to call the guy toxic, or ask for reports, and in some cases this is considered harassment. It only takes one report to flag a game for review by the automated system, and all extra reports are useless.

pls no ban: you toxic fuck

Don't think I need to explain this one.

pls no ban: this xayah been talking shit pls no ban: refused to leash

Regardless of Xayah's behavior you're kind of starting shit by saying this, or at a minimum you're keeping the train rolling.

pls no ban: I think reporting you will save other people from having to deal with a feeding mid laner though :)

Accurate or not it's really unnecessary to say, and again doesn't help the situation.

Just as a side note I'm not saying my personal opinion here, I'm only trying to explain Riot's thinking to the best of my ability. I highly recommend you mute people instead of participating in arguments, regardless of who started it. If comments like the ones I quoted are common in your chat history and you don't treat these punishments as warnings of a possible permaban in the future I can definitely see why you made it to the 14 day ban stage over this, though only if you had already gotten two chat bans somewhat recently.

Here's a flowchart of Riot's punishment system in case it helps at all.

https://i.imgur.com/ACZhFYu.png

pls no ban1 votes

{quoted}

The automated system doesn't really care too much about context, even though you or I might. Did you make sure the context of these games was explained in your support ticket?

That said, Riot takes a very "if you're not being positive you're being negative" approach to chat, and the following lines are not exactly constructive or helpful, and can degrade the play environment.

There's no actual reason to call the guy toxic, or ask for reports, and in some cases this is considered harassment. It only takes one report to flag a game for review by the automated system, and all extra reports are useless.

Don't think I need to explain this one.

Regardless of Xayah's behavior you're kind of starting shit by saying this, or at a minimum you're keeping the train rolling.

Accurate or not it's really unnecessary to say, and again doesn't help the situation.

Just as a side note I'm not saying my personal opinion here, I'm only trying to explain Riot's thinking to the best of my ability. I highly recommend you mute people instead of participating in arguments, regardless of who started it. If comments like the ones I quoted are common in your chat history and you don't treat these punishments as warnings of a possible permaban in the future I can definitely see why you made it to the 14 day ban stage over this, though only if you had already gotten two chat bans somewhat recently.

Here's a flowchart of Riot's punishment system in case it helps at all.

https://i.imgur.com/ACZhFYu.png

For clarification, the first game shown was the only game in my card when I was 14 day suspended a month or so ago.

I have played 30-40 games since, and the other two games were in my permanent ban card, which I received today.

I understand the concept of "mute don't argue" but why is in-game chat bannable if it's not "extreme toxicity"? Two people engaging in banter should not result in anyone being banned, especially when the mute function exists, allowing unwilling participants, or annoyed by-standers to remove themselves if wanted. In any other game that includes a mute system (WoW's ignore system being the most prevalent example) you cannot be banned for in-game comments unless they are incredibly toxic (racism, telling people to end their lives in any way, personal threats, etc). I understand that some things may have been better left unsaid, but that doesn't directly equate to the ban being fair or just.

I'm also not asking if "by Riot's standards" I should have been suspended; the automated system does not care about context, it does not care about fair, it cares about key words and phrases, and previous history. I am more interested in whether or not people believe that my permanent ban fits the comments that I sent.

I even noted that the "toxic fuck" comment was the reason behind my 14 day suspension, hence why I elected to refrain from profanity and name-calling in the future, yet regardless I was banned.

Fegone2 votes

You had an account permabanned before. You have a smurf who has gotten punishments. Now this account is permabanned.

And you still think it's not your fault? Be real man, you're toxic af. You're not pleasant to play with, you ruin the mood in every game, and wonder why people report you. The answer is very clear: Nobody wants to play with you because you make this game unfun. So either change your behavior or expect your smurf account to go down just like your 2 permabanned main accounts. If you won't change, we'll soon see another whine post on the forum about someone claiming he got unrightfully banned...

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

You keep talking about context, but context doesn't matter.

The way you treat other people is either good or bad, and if it's bad, then the punishment is justified. I don't think we need to get into an argument about morality; this is about the ToS that you agreed to and the what the Summoner's Code says.

You can disagree with the underlying morality behind those decisions if you want, but you agree to the ToS and you play the game with full access to the info that you will be banned for insulting and belittling other players, no matter what they are doing in game. When you get warnings and chat restrictions, those rules are told to you again, and people tell you that a ban is what will happen if you continue.

And yet, you have persisted in this behavior. Just or unjust, you had the power to avoid the punishment and you chose to opt in to a ban instead. You're going to have a hard time garnering sympathy with the people who are still following those rules.

Barley1 votes

I think I remember you complaining about a ban a few months ago....

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