Boards›Player Behavior

Perma banning accounts just a money grab?

hDjfUJLG5D··7 votes·2,638 views

My claim is simple , they have way to much control and abuse that control by being to trigger happy on bans. There are people out there who will spend literally hundreds possibly even a thousand dollars on a single "main" account, now imagine being one of those people and getting a perma ban because you lost your cool , hell maybe you even lost your cool over the course of a week, does that really warrant losing money and time and investments over? Also , sometimes they will perma ban accounts without actively trying to reform players let alone warn players of the impending ban. My one account was perma banned for telling someone in gold they belonged in goldafter I received a single 5 game chat ban, we went straight to a perma ban, is there no escalation of force here?. Now I would understand if i made some kind of personal attack or life threatening comment against that player , I said more or less his skill level belonged in gold. (Granted it was my smurf and my main is d5) I agree I perhaps made him feel bad and yeah I was a 'bad guy', but seriously perma banning an account for that? Please , this is nothing more than money grabbing , they hope banned players make new accounts and re-buy everything they bought on their originals, making all that money again. It's an intelligent marketing move that is completely warranted by their current TOS , but completely scummy. I mean really , is this exploit not obvious? Just think about who we're dealing with here , this company is money first players second and has been for quite a while now , I've played this game since release and it saddens me to see it taking the path most companies do when they get to large. Even if you don't agree with my argument against my account being banned , you have to see the issue with the exploit regardless if i'm right or wrong , the TOS are clearly flawed and give to much control to the company over what should be the players. THERE ARE OTHER METHODS to punishing players other than robbing them blind of money time and services.

85 Comments

Deep Terror Nami13 votes

When someone's behavior is so bad or a consistent problem and every other option is exhausted, they don't really want your money, they want you to take your business elsewhere; keeping you around longer doing the same things drives more business away than any revenue you personally generate for them.

The only reason they say you can make a new account is because they can't really stop you, and some players do actually reform after being permabanned and come back as a more positive member of the community.

hDjfUJLG5D2 votes

That's the other side of the same coin , speaking of the argument I just made. Sure , you can look at it like riots just turning a blind eye to you or you can look at it the way I put it. They want your cash , money makes the world go round , if you really believe a large company like riot doesn't want your money first and foremost you're naive. Regardless , it's irrelevant to my argument , I'm simply stating the exploit shouldn't be possible to begin with , it shoudln't even exist in the TOS that they should have that kind of option / power to begin with.

TheLastShadow453 votes

it shoudln't even exist in the TOS that they should have that kind of option / power to begin with.

It's their game, they can do what they want with it and set what rules they want. And since you got banned, you clearly didn't follow any of those rules.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Don't you have any doubt in this company at all ? they must be a real god send for you to so blindly trust their decision making.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Really the point at the heart of this i'm making doesn't have to pertain to me or getting my account back idc , i'm just stating the company has far to much power with its current TOS.

EndlessSorcerer5 votes

Riot's terms of service are fairly standard.

Honestly, I'd be surprised to find a popular MMO game which doesn't say something along the lines of:

"We reserve the right to ban any account at any time for any reason".

Deep Terror Nami10 votes

You will not find a game with significantly different terms. Removing problem players with no refund is standard.

GunninReturns1 votes

actually it isnt, look it up, riot is literally only game that does this shit..

hshtagniemehrcdu1 votes

{quoted}

Don't you have any doubt in this company at all ? they must be a real god send for you to so blindly trust their decision making.

Regarding ther policy of banning flamers? No.

If you are either extremly toxic, or continously toxic over a very long period of time, you get a perma ban. Thats completly legitimat. The kind of behavior you need to show in chat to get a perma is so extreme, it would get you kicked from any company/society/whatever. If people go all the way to the perma, then they have some serious issues.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Did you not read where I said i told a gold player he was gold and got perma banned.

elduris4 votes

I highly doubt that was the only reason you were permabanned. But, if you want to prove it you can always post your chat logs. I'd be happy to be proven wrong here.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Well "highly" would love to prove it , unfortunately whenever riot manually bans an account apparently it isn't protocol to send them the records for the ban. Hence why as stated above i submitted a ticket and am waiting for a response.

dYW7w6mjp12 votes

{quoted}

Well "highly" would love to prove it , unfortunately whenever riot manually bans an account apparently it isn't protocol to send them the records for the ban. Hence why as stated above i submitted a ticket and am waiting for a response.

Close League and log back in, had the same problem.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

You really think there aren't player out there who lack the self control to keep from re-purchasing products they already bought and had taken from them? In fact , i'd argue players do just that just in spite of riots punishments. I'm arguing here of those rules exactly , pointing out the exploits and the fact that it takes advantage of certain players. Regardless if they're childish , harsh, mean , immature , inept, unintelligent , unreliable , intolerable , or show idiosyncrasies similar to that of a field mouse is all irrelevant. The Tos are flawed.

o Maui o2 votes

The terms Riot uses in their TOS are not unusual when it comes to online gaming. You are free to not agree to their terms of service. You are also welcome to agree to their terms and play all you want without spending a dime.

It's hard to call it an exploit when the accounts are literally free. You are accusing Riot of making an unethical business decision, but even setting aside the ethics, it doesn't make any kind of business sense to ban a customer who has a history of spending money in the hopes that they will spend even more after having been poorly treated.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

[deleted]

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}...how many people are really going to invest that kind of absurd time into a game like league jus to get a character they really like etc.

Interestingly, a good amount of the player base has never spent any money on the game, and a sizable amount of the playerbase in Asia has access to all the champions courtesy of things like arrangements with cyber cafes. So the amount of non-paying players is likely much larger than you think.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

You going to cite these statistics you claim or should I just take it for face value.

ModThe Djinn6 votes

{quoted}

You going to cite these statistics you claim or should I just take it for face value.

Here you go.

Further, he specifically says "However, it’s important to keep in mind that players engaging in these behaviors really are not welcome in our community." A ban means Riot wants you GONE, not that they want you spending more money.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Great statistics straight form the source, except of course they're provided by riot who has 0 checks and balances in place. but hey , we should take everything for face value it's simpler that way. what's the old saying? oh right , ignorance is bliss.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}

Great statistics straight form the source, except of course they're provided by riot who has 0 checks and balances in place. but hey , we should take everything for face value it's simpler that way. what's the old saying? oh right , ignorance is bliss.

Sure. There's a small chance that banned players spend far more than the average player, and a small chance that significantly large numbers of them spend equally large amounts of money again after the ban, and a chance that despite Riot flat-out telling banned players they're not really welcome in the League community they're really working a reverse-psychology angle to use bans to increase their income by far more than most predictable metrics would indicate, and that Riot is willing to lie to their playerbase to achieve those ends and willing to ban players who DON'T spend money for similar reasons to keep up the facade.

But at some point Occam's Razor has to kick in: the simplest solution is usually the most likely one. That solution? Riot bans players who it doesn't feel meets community behavior expectations. Full stop. No greater conspiracy or extra steps necessary.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Occam's Razor is a scape goat used to avoid hard truths.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}

Occam's Razor is a scape goat used to avoid hard truths.

Then by all means please cite your evidence to the contrary. I'm eager to see your statistics, sources, and tangible proof. <3

Never let it be said I am not willing to have my opinion changed by hard evidence.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Tangible proof isn't evident , hence my argument we're going full circle here . They have no checks and balances there is no way to prove one way or the other. As i said , the fact the exploit exist to begin with should be issue enough. Enough with the condescending attitude and passive aggressiveness it isn't warranted.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}Enough with the condescending attitude and passive aggressiveness it isn't warranted.

Apologies if you feel that way -- it's not intentional on my part.

That said, again -- this is standard for companies with digital goods. Riot is just a little stricter about community behavior enforcement, but a similar outcome happens if you're banned from pretty much any digital-good-based company. Blizzard, Steam, etc all function in the same sort of manner: the ability to pull your right to use their content at any time.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

Think about this then , why is the solution chosen to perma ban players rather than perma ban chat privileges? I would achieve the same results , except no one would have to lose money. unless of course you take my side of the argument then you see someone would lose money, riot.

I believe Riot actually tried that for a while, and found that many players still found ways to be toxic through their in-game behavior. That said, given how much communication can be important in this game, I could see having a bunch of easily tilted players who simply cannot communicate being frustrating both to them and to their teammates.

I'm not sure it's the RIGHT decision (and would need data I don't have to make that call), but I see why Riot made the decision to avoid permanent chat bans.

And, again, players sign up to abide by the ToS and community behavioral guidelines when they make an account. They go in knowing that any purchases they make can be lost by violating those rules. It's entirely opt-in, and entirely agreed upon by the purchaser. So I don't think it amounts to theft or a loss of money any more than, say, you not getting a refund for your movie ticket if you're kicked out of the theater for shouting racial slurs at the family next to you.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Really , because league is full of players right now who litearlly chose to mute all every game or just say nothing an entire match. Is this not what the ping system was implimented ? to give more chat variation other than actually chating. Communicating without text , the ping system could be expanded upon , there are more solutions here than perma banning players.

PlsCheckThisBush1 votes

{quoted}

Think about this then , why is the solution chosen to perma ban players rather than perma ban chat privileges? I would achieve the same results , except no one would have to lose money. unless of course you take my side of the argument then you see someone would lose money, riot.

As DTM and many others have stated, they don't want your business, nor do they want toxic people playing their game and ruining the experience for others - especially if they're unable to reform within several given chances. You're still able to ping spam and run down enemy lanes feeding with a chat restriction, and if they took away the ability to ping for assistance/communication, you could be seen as refusing to communicate with the team - which compounds the problem in a game where there is only team play, making it worse for the 99.994% of players that choose to do so in an appropriate manner.

Also, many people here on the forums would prefer to see the 100% chat logs before passing judgment, as tangible evidence is much more clear than speculation. There have been many people wrongfully banned in the past who have been unbanned, and these forums have been a great place to start.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

This is short sighted , there are other options. And players who would intentionally feed would lose games and fall down the rank latter to a point where they no longer effect other players , they'd pool together. Isn't this why the ranked system in part was developed? Also, it's irrelevant if they want my business , i'm stating here the TOS is flawed and the methods to the means here are flawed.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}Really , because league is full of players right now who litearlly chose to mute all every game or just say nothing an entire match. Is this not what the ping system was implimented ? to give more chat variation other than actually chating.

Yep. But they have the option to communicate if they want to.

It's more about the fact that toxic players tend (from what I remember Riot saying about permanent bans) to find other ways to be toxic.

It's also about the fact that if you violate the behavioral standards Riot does not want you as part of the community, whether silent or otherwise.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Define free? because sure perhaps owning an account is free , but everything that comes with that account from skins to runes to purchasing champions , that isn't free. and before you make the argument of being able to get all that stuff through in game currency , let's be real , level with me how many people are really going to invest that kind of absurd time into a game like league jus to get a character they really like etc. No , they'll drop 10 bucks here and there and get instant satisfaction , riot knows this they aren't stupid. Also , it makes perfect sense to ban players who spend big , because they're hooked and they'll come back to spend big all over again.

o Maui o1 votes

A significant portion of the player base never spends a dime on the game. And if you really think about it, you'd realize that it would be absurd for a company to ban its best-paying customers and expect those customers to return and spend even more.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

You should take a psychology class or sociology , you'd be surprised how predictable people actually are. They're creatures of habit.

o Maui o1 votes

I've taken several, as both are intricately related to my field. But tell you what: I'll take a couple more if you sign up for a few business classes.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

It's irrelevant we're talking about people here.

o Maui o3 votes

Your conspiracy theory requires believing that banning players would generate significant revenue, which is, from a business standpoint, very silly indeed.

dYW7w6mjp11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mars Ragnarok,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=n02XXWen,comment-id=000300000001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-16T23:23:48.756+0000)

Your conspiracy theory requires believing that banning players would generate significant revenue, which is, from a business standpoint, very silly indeed.

Where is the evidence it's not for money? Where is the evidence it is? Stop arguing about it, everything is a business decision when you're talking about big companies. Technically he's right for the wrong reason, if you ban toxic players Riot has a better chance of giving better game experiences to other players which in turn makes them enjoy the game more and have a bigger will to purchase their content. What you're arguing is that toxic players have no effect on how much money Riot makes which simply isn't true. Sorry.

o Maui o1 votes

if you ban toxic players Riot has a better chance of giving better game experiences to other players which in turn makes them enjoy the game more and have a bigger will to purchase their content.

This is, in fact, part of my point.

What you're arguing is that toxic players have no effect on how much money Riot makes which simply isn't true.

This has not at all been my argument. I can see my mistake: in my previous post, I should have written "banned players" instead of "banning players" to make it more clear.

My argument is that it is silly to believe that Riot would employ a business strategy that is both impractical and unethical, simply because they can. The fact that Riot does have a very real financial incentive to implement their policy, one which does not require them to cackle madly while twisting their handlebar mustaches, only goes to show just how silly the conspiracy theory is.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Implementing a system that has players buy the same product multiple times , yeah silly indeed. Don't mind me i'll just be over here with my tin foil hat. While you keep on trusting every smiling face that comes your way * in this scenario the smiling face is a metaphor for riot* just in case that flew over your head.

o Maui o1 votes

Banning a player does not encourage them to continue to purchase your product, and if you really think it does I can't help you. Plenty of banned people do open up second accounts, and some of them even do spend money on content they'd purchased on their previous account. Many more simply walk away and never play again, or play again but refuse to spend another dime. Can you offer me any kind of proof, other than "it is technically possible" or anecdotes, that players whose accounts have been permanently banned generate more revenue for Riot than they would have if they hadn't been banned? All you have is an extremely dubious motive, where Riot has presented a reasonable (and ethical!) one, so why should I believe the conspiracy theory?

Bettnachleger1 votes

lol this is a free to play game. If you're that dumb, and you still spend money after you got a perma ban .. LOL cough dumvb as fuck :D (sry for beeing harsch)

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

It's irrelevant the type of player at fault , the methods used are not warranted.

Ethan Allen7 votes

You clicked "I Agree" Riot can do whatever they want

ModUlanopo4 votes

Riot has made it more than clear their hope people will move on to other games after a permaban.

dYW7w6mjp11 votes

{quoted}

Riot has made it more than clear their hope people will move on to other games after a permaban.

No. They want players to continue. The person I just chatted with (from Riot Support) hoped I had a successful time creating a new account.

hDjfUJLG5D1 votes

Yup , because when people say things it's always true.

ModUlanopo3 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/q7NYtdkw-uplift-my-permaban?comment=0003000100010000000100020001

dYW7w6mjp11 votes

{quoted}

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/q7NYtdkw-uplift-my-permaban?comment=0003000100010000000100020001

Again, I rioter told me to create another account

ModUlanopo3 votes

http://i.imgur.com/bR3IWEx.png[/img]

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