When is the tribunal coming back?

M1nzy·Dec 7, 2015·22 votes·12,933 views

just wanted to ask..

edit: its coming early 2016 also supposed to include a monthly report card on player behavior Q: For the Report Feedback System, maybe if you sent out a message once a week that says a player, or X players, you reported have been punished. You would only get the message once a week, and only if you reported someone who got punished. I think that is a happy medium. Riot Lyte: "We generally agree with some type of monthly report card, and we've designed elements of this into the new Tribunal voting system. So, basically a web profile you can visit to see your contributions to the community and how you made it a better environment. We're hoping to get this out in early 2016, but we're still wrapping up the new Champ Select." https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3w39zf/riot_lyte_new_monthly_report_card_on_player/

44 Comments

RiotSlumber JackDec 7, 201517 votes

We will be working on the voting system once we've finished up the new champ select.

DukuesDec 7, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mEIlagLk,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-12-07T19:25:24.700+0000)

We will be working on the voting system once we've finished up the new champ select.

If you don't mind I was just curious. Any idea when the new champ select will be finished? Like at the start of season 6 or later in the season?

sealustDec 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you don't mind I was just curious. Any idea when the new champ select will be finished? Like at the start of season 6 or later in the season?

I believe it's shipping with season 6.

KüramaDec 8, 20151 votes

Normal Draft will hopefully arrive with Patch 5.24. Ranked & Blind Pick should be in Patches 6.1 and 6.4 respectively.

Samus72Dec 7, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mEIlagLk,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-12-07T19:25:24.700+0000)

We will be working on the voting system once we've finished up the new champ select.

I would hope that Riot plans to create a post detailing the general workings of this new system. I am, understandably, curious how an automated system determines "toxicity" from a chat log.

Yes, yes, I've been reading about NLP in the past several hours. But I'm still skeptical. There's nothing wrong with that.

Lithium RosaDec 7, 20158 votes

Plz be quick, we need it back urgently

AdanYEvaDec 7, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mEIlagLk,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-12-07T19:25:24.700+0000)

We will be working on the voting system once we've finished up the new champ select.

u better fix it, people are leaving left and right, just lost 2 of my friends due to bans, and they aint coming back, and i get reported evey game too so we'l see how long i last too, but that's not the important part, it's all dependent on you guys

Sassmast3rDec 8, 20151 votes

Oh my gosh are you serious!? I'm so excited!!!!!!!

tAqSqeC6OHDec 9, 20152 votes

Finally I'm glad to hear you'll be working on it soon!

buneterDec 9, 20154 votes

You've had 2 years to be working on it...

wintersedge91Dec 17, 20153 votes

please stop lying about tribunal coming back, it has been over 2 years since it was removed

Smoke N ShankJul 19, 20166 votes

7 months later...that's riot for ya.

HymennHammerAug 19, 20164 votes

Still trolls ruin this game and riot doesn't care.

UrSupermanJul 31, 20163 votes

OCE Troll is getting out of hand and good player start to quit lol because Trolls are out of control.....

We really need tribunal here, because no one scare of punishment in OCE, because Riot report system wont do anything against them.

item 3751

AMYS GRAVEJul 31, 20162 votes

twiddling thumbs....

FOHG LoggyAug 18, 20162 votes

Indeed xD

Samus72Dec 7, 20156 votes

I find automated systems to be flawed. An automated system might suspend a player because he was reported twenty times because that is what it is programmed to do. A human looking at the same twenty reports could easily determine the reported player did not actually do anything to warrant a punishment. The automated system cannot make a judgment.

I am considering signing up with Tribunal if it ever returns. From some of the crap I've personally had to deal with, Riot needs all the help they can get. I'm quite tired of the endless immaturity and vitriol in online games. A decade of crap is enough.

Deep Terror NamiDec 7, 20156 votes

No, the automated system does not punish players based on number of reports. Verbal abuse reports get your chat logs scanned; if nothing is found in your chat logs then the reports don't hurt you. If you say nothing and get reported 9x per game for 100 games for verbal abuse, nothing will happen to you.

False positives were at less than 1:6000 when they were hand checking every report. If you got punished for verbal abuse, it's more likely that you think your behavior is acceptable when it isn't.

Samus72Dec 7, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mEIlagLk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-12-07T01:16:42.721+0000)

No, the automated system does not punish players based on number of reports. Verbal abuse reports get your chat logs scanned; if nothing is found in your chat logs then the reports don't hurt you. If you say nothing and get reported 9x per game for 100 games for verbal abuse, nothing will happen to you.

False positives were at less than 1:6000 when they were hand checking every report. If you got punished for verbal abuse, it's more likely that you think your behavior is acceptable when it isn't.

See, I cannot accept that. And I'll tell you why.

If a computer reads a chat log and is programmed to look for 'buzz" words, it will respond to those buzz words because that's what it is programmed to do. Let's say, for example, the program is set to recognize and respond to the f-bomb (yes, we all know what it is. While it may be okay to type it out, I'm not going to out of personal choice.) The program scans the chat and finds a player typed out the f-bomb. The program issues out a warning. That same program is built to respond to the word "hate." A player types out "I hate Blitz" because he always loses one on one fights with Blitz. The program, unable to understand the usage of the word "hate" in this case simply does what it is programmed to do and warns the player. It should not have because the player was not expressing negative feelings to any one player. The player was just being general in their dislike of the character.

Computers, dear friends, cannot differentiate usage like this. It doesn't have a human's insight. Not yet they can't. One day, they may be able to. But not now. I do not trust automated programs to moderate the game community. I don't care how much Riot defends it. A computer is not human and human judgment will trump a computer's judgment every time.

Deep Terror NamiDec 7, 20154 votes

The system is far smarter than you give it credit. You've obviously come to your conclusion that it is stupid and have done no research on the matter. I'm not going to spoon feed it to you, so if you care about actually learning how it works (I'm pretty sure you don't care and enjoy your own assertion too much) a good starting point is Lyte's ask.fm page.

Samus72Dec 7, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mEIlagLk,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-07T02:15:34.054+0000)

The system is far smarter than you give it credit. You've obviously come to your conclusion that it is stupid and have done no research on the matter. I'm not going to spoon feed it to you, so if you care about actually learning how it works (I'm pretty sure you don't care and enjoy your own assertion too much) a good starting point is Lyte's ask.fm page.

To be honest, the only experience with automated systems I have is my own. Since I doubt Riot will hand over technical schematics on their systems, I can only go by my own observations.

I didn't know Lyte had an Ask.fm page. I have known about that site in general for some time but only it's negative aspects since it has a pretty bad reputation with being the source of a lot of teen suicides. I endured enough of that crap in high school and would rather not be associated with that kind of behavior. "Why play MMO's then?" you might ask. Well, at least I can mute or block you. On a social site like ask.fm, that seems directly opposite to the reason for creating an account there.

But to be honest, I've got other things I'd like to do then sift through Lyte's ask.fm account to find out some small nugget about Riot's automated system. Suffice it to say, I do not trust automated systems. Human judgment is superior because computers are bound by programming restrictions which, currently, cannot tell the difference in word usage and meaning as accurately as a human can. I speak from experience on this.

Also, you don't have to "spoon feed me" anything. But I perceive your word usage towards me to be hostile. I doubt a computer would though.

Deep Terror NamiDec 7, 20153 votes

You don't know what you're talking about, and you never will if you continue to refuse to educate yourself on the matter...

And I don't know what you're talking about with "ask.fm being associated with teen suicide". Lyte handles his page himself and is the least toxic and most educated person you could talk to about these matters. You have nothing to fear and much knowledge to gain, but only if you make the effort. There is far more than "small nuggets" to glean from him; they are very transparent about their systems, as long as it doesn't teach people how to circumvent them.

JubbinautDec 7, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Computers, dear friends, cannot differentiate usage like this.

You should do some research on Natural Language Processing. It's a pretty cool field (and part of the basis for the Instant Feedback system).

M1nzyDec 7, 20153 votes

and lol community argues about computers....maybe we need the tribunal back. Durrr, bossss Malphite

Live2LetDieDec 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

See, I cannot accept that. And I'll tell you why.

If a computer reads a chat log and is programmed to look for 'buzz" words, it will respond to those buzz words because that's what it is programmed to do. Let's say, for example, the program is set to recognize and respond to the f-bomb (yes, we all know what it is. While it may be okay to type it out, I'm not going to out of personal choice.) The program scans the chat and finds a player typed out the f-bomb. The program issues out a warning. That same program is built to respond to the word "hate." A player types out "I hate Blitz" because he always loses one on one fights with Blitz. The program, unable to understand the usage of the word "hate" in this case simply does what it is programmed to do and warns the player. It should not have because the player was not expressing negative feelings to any one player. The player was just being general in their dislike of the character.

Computers, dear friends, cannot differentiate usage like this. It doesn't have a human's insight. Not yet they can't. One day, they may be able to. But not now. I do not trust automated programs to moderate the game community. I don't care how much Riot defends it. A computer is not human and human judgment will trump a computer's judgment every time.

You are making it way to simplicit. I guarantee they make it so multiple words have to be together in sequence to issue a tick. also probably takes in account friend list, context, etc.. Computers don't have to be dumb lol

Samus72Dec 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You are making it way to simplicit. I guarantee they make it so multiple words have to be together in sequence to issue a tick. also probably takes in account friend list, context, etc.. Computers don't have to be dumb lol

Even words programmed to look at in sequence can be falsely flagged. Computers cannot judge context. If they could, we would have true A.I. We don't.

JubbinautDec 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Even words programmed to look at in sequence can be falsely flagged. Computers cannot judge context. If they could, we would have true A.I. We don't.

Not necessarily. I mentioned it once, but I think it bears repeating: do a little digging into NLP. I think you'll find it pretty interesting, and you might be surprised by how far along it is.

Samus72Dec 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not necessarily. I mentioned it once, but I think it bears repeating: do a little digging into NLP. I think you'll find it pretty interesting, and you might be surprised by how far along it is.

Is this what Riot is using?

JubbinautDec 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Is this what Riot is using?

Yep. It's a machine-learning NLP system.

Shrubbery200qJun 17, 20163 votes

I know i'm reopening this thread, but it has been months since this post and tribunal still isn't back... Does anyone know when it will be back?

Live2LetDieDec 7, 20152 votes

Never. The tribunal was viable when there was players in the thousand. There are 80+ million players. An automated system is the only way

Deep Terror NamiDec 7, 20153 votes

It is coming back next year though, to accentuate the automated system. Most likely Tribunal vote cases will be people that are reported often but the system isn't finding much on them (those difficult cases go to Rioters currently).

DrackolusDec 7, 20152 votes

The Tribunal is largely player run. So only a percentage of player participation is relevant. There could be 200 players or 200 million, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Live2LetDieDec 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The Tribunal is largely player run. So only a percentage of player participation is relevant. There could be 200 players or 200 million, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

You misunderstood my comment. I'm saying never because there are not enough people to manually regulate 80+ mil players. I did the math that showed that if .01% of the community filled a ticket in a month it would take 32 days of 24/7 support to go through them all.

It has to be automated

JubbinautDec 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You misunderstood my comment. I'm saying never because there are not enough people to manually regulate 80+ mil players. I did the math that showed that if .01% of the community filled a ticket in a month it would take 32 days of 24/7 support to go through them all.

That's assuming someone goes through every single report. But that wasn't the case - and won't be with the new Tribunal.

By combining some amount of automation (such as building cases that are highly likely to warrant addressing - which was actually done for the old Tribunal) with manual oversight, it's possible to build a system that can handle ridiculous numbers of players with a minimal number of people.

Adding in the new Instant Feedback system (to address obvious cases before they even get to the Tribunal), you can expand on that even further.

And honestly, I think that's the best way to go - a little from column A, and a little from column B.

TastelessAvocadoMay 3, 20162 votes

Early 2016 isn't within the first 5 months RIP

ZombiemasterDec 7, 20151 votes

Riot has not released an exact date because they don't even know exactly when it will come back. The best we can say right now is Soon™.

Awkward CouchDec 7, 20151 votes

Soon

PIMPSMOOTHDec 7, 20151 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Samus72Dec 7, 20151 votes

"don't know what you're talking about." Hmm. And you're telling me to do some research. Is that irony?

In any event, I just tried to post a question to Lyte's page. It requires that I make an account there or log in with one through Facebook, Linkin, or Twitter. I do not have accounts with any of these programs because I don't use them (little 'ole me just isn't popular enough, I suppose.) So, unless Lyte wants to respond here, I doubt I'll obtain more info without resorting to Google searches and hoping for the best. And I'm in queue to play right now.

LeeDarkDec 7, 20151 votes

Never. Automated injustice system is working as intended.

Palmeiras SerieBDec 9, 20151 votes

Soon kappa

Saturnalia9Jan 14, 20161 votes

What about all those chat-mutes from Teambuilder? In almost every match I was muted at least twice, for no reason at all. Several times all I was able to say was "hey hey" before I got muted randomly. Almost everyone I've talked to has had that happen to them in Teambuilder chat at least once (or at least everyone I've talked to about it).

On a different note, why not have the Tribunal as a part volunteer, part random jury? People can volunteer to actively participate in the Tribunal while random clean-history players can also get picked out in-client to be juries. Of course, there would have to be a sort of limit to what the jury can and can't do... but it does sound reasonable.