Boards›Player Behavior

Riot Punishes The Wrong People.

Mrthomas20121··6 votes·3,258 views

I believe Riot punishes the wrong people. I think that banning someone for being "toxic" to a 0/10 Riven that keeps trying to 1v1 the 10/0 darius, or getting mad at the bot laner that you have asked 10 times to play safe because he is feeding, or getting mad at the mid laner that you have asked to call mia's 4 times now and refuses to do it, is kind of ridiculous. I think riot has babysat this community so much that simply saying "you're bad" is considered verbal abuse. People that should be banned are the kids running around saying homophobic, sexist, or racist remarks. Not the person that says "look you need to start warding your lane or your never going to leave bronze". Heres a funny story, I'm banned right now. I am a mid main but want to get more comfortable playing adc. So I'm ruippen some normal matches practicing. I have a mid laner who has never played azir before and he goes 0/6 in about 15 minutes. My wonder top laner Olaf starts freaking out. He says, and I quote "I hope you kill yourself and your family after this match you little Pr*ck", I respond "F**k you buddy, there is no need to talk to someone like that in a video game". I got banned for verbal abuse, make sense? This is starting to get a tad ridiculous when people have the power just to report you after the game for seemingly no reason or a small little statement that shouldn't even matter. I get reported after every match. Sometimes I don't even use chat. People get salty when you beat them and report. People get salty when you give advice and report. This community has been babied and pampered to much and now people that shouldn't be punished are getting punished. What do you think?

51 Comments

Zielmann12 votes

What, specifically, is raging at or harassing another player contributing to your team winning the game?

alasarcher9 votes

Someone going 0:10 and trying to duel 10:0 Darius= bad at game Toxic person = bad person in life.

Bad player can improve. Bad person can hardly change.

Radio 4Head1 votes

Its called being "Triggered". People who waste time on something to be negative = annoyance. #Lata

Dragfin3 votes

{quoted}

Someone going 0:10 and trying to duel 10:0 Darius= bad at game Toxic person = bad person in life.

Bad player can improve. Bad person can hardly change.

That person that goes 0:10 and trying to duel 10:0 Darius is also toxic AF. Right or wrong for raging and harassing this player, should not be the issue. Because there are so many players like this, it is allowed and there is nothing in place that works to fix it. I am sorry but you people who do this are the most toxic players in the game. If toxicity is going to be toned down, it needs to start with players like this. Then and only then will we see a positive change in this community. Your parents lied to you. You are not special in every facet of your life and sucking at something is not ok when your sucking affects real people. Get a clue and go play another game if you know you suck. Have some integrity. Chances are you don't even know what that word means.

alasarcher4 votes

{quoted}

That person that goes 0:10 and trying to duel 10:0 Darius is also toxic AF. Right or wrong for raging and harassing this player, should not be the issue. Because there are so many players like this, it is allowed and there is nothing in place that works to fix it. I am sorry but you people who do this are the most toxic players in the game. If toxicity is going to be toned down, it needs to start with players like this. Then and only then will we see a positive change in this community. Your parents lied to you. You are not special in every facet of your life and sucking at something is not ok when your sucking affects real people. Get a clue and go play another game if you know you suck. Have some integrity. Chances are you don't even know what that word means.

Ye. Being bad in game is part of game. Being garbage person, flaming others for being bad just means that persons parents failed at raising them. If only way to boost your own ego is to humiliate and swear other people, then you are very sad person. Being bad at game is NOT toxic, its just way it is. Its normal thing. Being flamer IS toxic, and is mark of bad parenting, bad person, and complete fail as a human being.

Dragfin3 votes

{quoted}

Ye. Being bad in game is part of game. Being garbage person, flaming others for being bad just means that persons parents failed at raising them. If only way to boost your own ego is to humiliate and swear other people, then you are very sad person. Being bad at game is NOT toxic, its just way it is. Its normal thing. Being flamer IS toxic, and is mark of bad parenting, bad person, and complete fail as a human being.

Well I can't help you trophy child. You are playing with real people and their time in a competitive atmosphere. If you do not have the courtesy to improve your gameplay then WTF should they be courteous to you. Yes, bad players are toxic AF.

alasarcher5 votes

{quoted}

Well I can't help you trophy child. You are playing with real people and their time in a competitive atmosphere. If you do not have the courtesy to improve your gameplay then WTF should they be courteous to you. Yes, bad players are toxic AF.

Well thats your opinion. Luckily opinion of those who think flaming is ok doesnt matter not here not anywhere :D

Dragfin3 votes

{quoted}

Well thats your opinion. Luckily opinion of those who think flaming is ok doesnt matter not here not anywhere :D

Exactly why we have problems in society because of people like you with passive attitudes who contribute nothing to anyone or anything even though you have been told your whole life that you do. That's ok, you continue to suck and be a waste to your fellow players but don't think for a second that people won't call you on it. People like you do not understand simple logic.

Say and believe what you want. Bad players are the most toxic thing in a competitive atmosphere and not the response to them. I am not saying the response is not toxic. I see both sides of things and you don't because you are blind to any wrong doing. One day, if you grow up and understand that bad play wastes peoples time and frustrates them then you will then understand that simple logic and how life actually works. Bad players start the circle most of the time.

INB4, when you say it's just a game means you don't care and more of a reason your toxic ass should be banned from competitive games.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

All I see is you trying to justify being toxic. You can have good sportsmanship and still be a good player; there's no excuse for it.

Dragfin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=kPcr3L9w,comment-id=0002000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-10T17:36:55.713+0000)

All I see is you trying to justify being toxic. You can have good sportsmanship and still be a good player; there's no excuse for it.

Of course you only see that because you only look at one side of the whole problem to begin with.

Deep Terror Nami5 votes

No, I'm not. You are always responsible for your own actions. Just because someone else upset you for whatever reason does not change that. Or is someone holding a gun to your head and saying "He's a bad player, flame him or I shoot"?

Are you in control of your own actions or aren't you?

And this isn't even considering the fact that "bad player" is entirely subjective.

Penns1 votes

You would most likely get arrested for beating someone up hardcore. You probably wouldnt get arrested for beating someone up hardcore after he killed your family. Extreme example but context matters in terms of "your own actions" lol.

Zielmann4 votes

You probably wouldnt get arrested for beating someone up hardcore after he killed your family.

Yes. Yes, you would.

Penns1 votes

Theres literally no way you get arrested for beating someone up after he killed your whole family LOL. You probably wouldnt even get arrested for killing that guy, if you do it while he is killing your family Jinx

Harmony111 votes

You'd very likely get arrested, but released once the police investigated the matter.

As far as a cop arriving at a scene is concerned, there are dead bodies and one witness is beating the crap out of another witness. To them they are both possibly violent suspects until evidence proves otherwise. This is even more true if they catch you killing the guy, since somebody killing another person when there are other murder victims immediately puts you as suspect #1!

Zielmann2 votes

Self-defense when in a life-threatening situation is generally admissable. So if you beat the guy up or shoot him while he's attacking you or your family, you probably will be fine. But if you actively hunt the person down after the fact and beat them up (or worse), that's no longer self-defense, it's assault.

And I should mention that in league, there is no life-threatening situation. Self-defense isn't an excuse for anything, because nobody is in danger.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

You would most likely get arrested for beating someone up hardcore. You probably wouldnt get arrested for beating someone up hardcore after he killed your family. Extreme example but context matters in terms of "your own actions" lol.

Oh, you'd be arrested. It'd just be easier to defend in court - assuming it got that far.

Does that make beating the guy up okay? No. Forgivable, perhaps, but not okay. But only because of the extremity of the situation.

But this is a game. Unless your life or livelihood in some way depends on whether or not you win your matches, exactly nothing about this game can possibly be qualified as an extreme situation that might warrant leniency.

Penns1 votes

Exactly, this is a game, and "beating someone up" isnt similar to "flaming someone in chat, which you can just mute whenever you want if youre about to cry" in any way either lol

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

Exactly, this is a game, and "beating someone up" isnt similar to "flaming someone in chat, which you can just mute whenever you want if youre about to cry" in any way either lol

So you're saying that your comparison is an extremely poor comparison, then?

And you're missing my point. It requires relatively extreme situations to apply leniency to a person's behavior.

Since there are no extreme situations in this game, the idea of applying leniency due to the actions of others isn't applicable.

Penns1 votes

My example was just there to show that youre not always 100% responsible for your actions and some things are or should be excusable.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

My example was just there to show that youre not always 100% responsible for your actions and some things are or should be excusable.

I disagree with the first statement - I don't think you demonstrated a lack of responsibility at all. However, I will gladly grant that some situations can make some things excusable.

But here's the thing. You also showed that for an action to be excusable, it must be triggered by something extreme.

Unless you can also demonstrate that there are suitably extreme situations in League, all you've done is point out why there's no excuse for retaliation.

Dragfin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=kPcr3L9w,comment-id=000200010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-10T18:01:03.481+0000)

No, I'm not. You are always responsible for your own actions. Just because someone else upset you for whatever reason does not change that. Or is someone holding a gun to your head and saying "He's a bad player, flame him or I shoot"?

Are you in control of your own actions or aren't you?

And this isn't even considering the fact that "bad player" is entirely subjective.

Exactly my point. If you are bad at something you need to be responsible for it and not subject other people to it. There is something in place to discipline those people who call out bad players. Why isn't there the same discipline for that 0:10 Riven who keeps doing the same stupid crap over and over?

You are only looking at things from your side and not both sides like an intelligent person would do. You are a waste of my time.

Thanks for making my point though.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

lol what?

If you are "bad", your punishment is demotion.

Attempting to insult my intelligence does not support your argument either.

SmokedAlmonds4 votes

{quoted}

Exactly my point. If you are bad at something you need to be responsible for it and not subject other people to it. There is something in place to discipline those people who call out bad players. Why isn't there the same discipline for that 0:10 Riven who keeps doing the same stupid crap over and over?

You are only looking at things from your side and not both sides like an intelligent person would do. You are a waste of my time.

Thanks for making my point though.

Skill deficiency is not a behavior, that is why it isn't punished. Punishing someone for not being good enough doesn't make them better.

There is a system for dealing with them, matchmaking.

Dragfin2 votes

{quoted}

Skill deficiency is not a behavior, that is why it isn't punished. Punishing someone for not being good enough doesn't make them better.

There is a system for dealing with them, matchmaking.

Back on subject. You are saying that an 0:10 Riven doing the same stupid things over and over again is a skill deficiency?

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

{quoted}

Back on subject. You are saying that an 0:10 Riven doing the same stupid things over and over again is a skill deficiency?

Unless that thing they are doing over and over again is intentional feeding, yes.

And when I say skill deficiency I mean relative to those players in that game and also probably more specifically in a lot of cases their skill vs their lane opponent.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

Unless that thing they are doing over and over again is intentional feeding, yes.

And when I say skill deficiency I mean relative to those players in that game and also probably more specifically in a lot of cases their skill vs their lane opponent.

But we are talking about one instance not these instances that you are conjuring out of thin air. Stay on the topic of this 0:10 Riven and answer the questions if you feel the need to rebut me. This Riven should be punished and never will because only those who say anything to her will be punished and how is this fair and not a double standard.

Why should a player like Riven be allowed to do this? Why should all people be like you and many others in this post and never say a word to this idiot for ruining and wasting their time? What makes you and those with the same opinion as you, better than anyone else, like you imply? Are you telling me that you have never been frustrated at any point in your life where you let the person frustrating you know about it?

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

{quoted}

But we are talking about one instance not these instances that you are conjuring out of thin air. Stay on the topic of this 0:10 Riven and answer the questions if you feel the need to rebut me. This Riven should be punished and never will because only those who say anything to her will be punished and how is this fair and not a double standard.

Why should a player like Riven be allowed to do this? Why should all people be like you and many others in this post and never say a word to this idiot for ruining and wasting their time? What makes you and those with the same opinion as you, better than anyone else, like you imply? Are you telling me that you have never been frustrated at any point in your life where you let the person frustrating you know about it?

My answer to this riven is the exact same as it would be to any situation where a person isn't intentionally trying to lose. The riven did not have the skills and/or game knowledge to beat the darius. The situation described certainly isn't how I would have played it and I probably would have left that game thinking the riven was terrible. Harassing riven isn't going to change anything. I also have no doubt that the same people raging at the riven for being 0-10 would be raging at her for the alternatives. Which are basically stop laneing. By 0-3 there was 0 chance riven could CS in a lane where a 3-0 darius was present. Even if darius was pushing the lane and riven was trying to only farm under her tower she would be pulled and obliterated.

There are plenty of acceptable things you could say to that riven. An 0-10 person already knows they are doing bad. Telling them they are bad is not going to do anything to change that. It is an issue for matchmaking. They lose the game. If they are just bad in general they take that skill level on with them to the next game and lose again while you don't. Like I said, its a match making issue. Had that same riven been facing someone who wasn't as good they wouldn't have been 0-10.

It's subjective sure. Nothing makes that better than your view. it just happens to also be the games policy.

I'm sure I have vented my frustration at people, but that doesn't make it right. If I was suggesting people be perma banned for saying "your bad" one time then maybe that would be relevant.

We are users not administrators. It is not our place to unilaterally give out punishments as we see fit.

Zielmann1 votes

What do you want, Riot to have delayed implementing what automated systems they could (chat-based punishments) just because they didn't have a solution yet to the much more complex issue of detecting gameplay behavior?

They DO have intentional feeding detection in place now, but it's pretty new. And when Riot releases a new system that can possibly automatically ban players, they start off conservative with it and dial it up from there. And they're still going to hand-audit the punishments the system gives out for some time to make sure things are accurate.

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

{quoted}

What do you want, Riot to have delayed implementing what automated systems they could (chat-based punishments) just because they didn't have a solution yet to the much more complex issue of detecting gameplay behavior?

They DO have intentional feeding detection in place now, but it's pretty new. And when Riot releases a new system that can possibly automatically ban players, they start off conservative with it and dial it up from there. And they're still going to hand-audit the punishments the system gives out for some time to make sure things are accurate.

Not sure if you responded to the wrong post or misunderstood me.

I'm saying that losing(riven going 0-10 as this specific case may be) is an issue for matchmaking not any punishment system.

Zielmann1 votes

Yeah, wrong post... gotta love when things hit the nesting limit >.<

Mrthomas201211 votes

My opinion is, people that flame and swear at people are people that will not get better at the game. If you are bad at a game but stay in a positive mind set, you will eventually get better at it. The person that flames and rages is the person that will forever be in bronze 5. How ever, the fact of the matter is, when you encounter these players, and lets be real they are at every elo tier, you cant do anything about it, and will be punished if you choose the only ways out, which are afk or say something to them. So Riot is punishing you because they don't have an effective way to deal with trolls. It doesn't make sense to me.

Mr Fidori1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Skadeglädje3 votes

{quoted}

Someone going 0:10 and trying to duel 10:0 Darius= bad at game **Toxic person = bad person in life. **

Bad player can improve. Bad person can hardly change.

I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense and totally disrespectful towards the people who come to these boards with legitimate questions and thoughts about how to deal with their own toxic behavior.

alasarcher4 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense and totally disrespectful towards the people who come to these boards with legitimate questions and thoughts about how to deal with their own toxic behavior.

He isnt asking how to deal with toxicity. He is claiming that Riot is wrong by punishing toxic people instead of people who plays bad.

Skadeglädje3 votes

But you are making broad statements about a lot of players, calling them "bad person[s] in life" that "can hardly change". Just mind your manners, is all I'm saying. Or you might find that people find you... toxic.

EvilDustMan4 votes

Let's see the including reform card, please.

DrCyanide3 votes

I think that you're not telling the whole story on your ban, considering you're never banned for one game.

Also notice how you switch sides in your own discussion. You start out defending those players who are upset about someone going 0/10, but then you yourself defend a player on your team that's 0/6. I think you were right to defend the player, and that the Olaf player was toxic and needed to be to be reported, but that flies in the face of your initial example.

Ultimately, I think the problem is that some people are too focused on winning. They start games looking for their team to do something less than ideal. What "something less than ideal" is varies player to player and game to game. Sometimes it's a teammate buying items that they wouldn't, or not noticing a bait that the teammate didn't notice, not CSing as well as they would like, giving up first blood, etc, etc.

They contort their allies not doing things their way or in the most ideal way to thinking that their allies aren't trying to win. They get frustrated about that, and lash out. Their frustration is reflected in their word choices, and everyone else in the game picks up on that, but sees it as overreacting or micromanaging.

The whole problem would naturally be avoided if players learned to relax and enjoy the game.

Penns1 votes

I play League with the main objective of having fun and "enjoying the game", but the problem is that, especially in this meta, having fun is basically limited to the winning team. This is why, when I do pretty well but I just see everyone else on my team dying all the time, I get salty. I dont insult anyone without them insulting me first (even then, I rarely do it), but I get salty. And apparently "being salty and writing a lot" is considered "being toxic" by this new system.

And the worst part is that there is no way to disengage. Right now, when the score is 3/12 at minute 10 or something along those lines (and you didnt pick some permaban champs), you know you lost. Thats why "open mid" is such a big thing atm, you just know you lost already. Now imagine those 3 kills being you, with 3/0. Not the best feeling since carrying is not an option most of the time, but going afk is "toxic" too.

Mrthomas201211 votes

We are completely trapped by toxic players. If you are in a match with someone who is very toxic even at champ select, you get punished if you dodge, if they are toxic in the game, you get punished if you say something to them, you get punished if you afk. No matter what the trolls win. So my point stands riot punishes the wrong people.

Mrthomas201211 votes

I think you have something a tad confused. When I say the 0/10 Riven, I was referring to a ranked game atmosphere, where someone going 0/10 and continuing to feed is more then likely intentional at that point. In the ranked atmosphere her feeding intentionally does directly affect me. I now risk losing mmr because this person has acted like a child. Now if I say something like "stop feeding you are going to lose us this game", I can be reported for verbal abuse which may result in a ban or a chat restriction. I do not see how I am being toxic or why I should be punished.

When I am talking about the 0/6 Azir, I am talking about a normal game where people go to learn new champions and play in a relaxed state. If he is first time playing a champ in ranked and is 0/6 I think that the Olaf would have the right to be upset (not excusing what he said by any means but he does and should be upset). How ever that was not the circumstance. This was a normals game. So I am not defending a intent feeder, I am defending someone trying to practice and get better at the game.

So no I am not contradicting myself, it seems like you assumed that the examples provided were from the same match.

Tract3 votes

If that's all you said you wouldn't be banned. Please post your logs.

Mrthomas201211 votes

That is all that was said in that particular match that resulted in me being banned. I have been reported dozens even hundreds of times I assume, not from flaming, being sexist, racist, or toxic, but from things such as "dude you have to start playing safer your starting to feed" or "stop going in 3v1 its stupid your going to die". Immediately you get reported because "you are ruining there experience in the game and hurt there feelings". Well in a ranked game the person that is playing stupidly is actually ruining my game and my mmr, and I am not a high ranked player I just recently climbed from bronze 5 to silver 5, so at my elo this happens at least every 2 games. Now the fact that I am climbing ensures me that I am doing something right, but my ultimate point is, The community is at a point now where we are so soft that anything someone says can be considered negative and abusive. Now with reporting being at the click of a button, people report for every little thing just because they don't like you.

Tract1 votes

Um, no. If that's all you said the game you got banned you wouldn't have gotten banned no matter what you said in the past. The rioter who read your logs would BOT have banned you for this. Please post your logs or all it looks like is a massive lie.

EvilDustMan2 votes

I'm reserving judgment until we see the reform card from the client itself.

Sukishoo2 votes

pretty sure you spelled "RIGHT PEOPLE" wrong :)

Radio 4Head1 votes

DANIEL FLEURY Do you want to make smurfs and start over fresh?

Mrthomas201211 votes

Mid Lane Fury is my smurf account, level 10 atm!

PIMPSMOOTH1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

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