The league of legends code of conduct/ report system is a fragile ego coddling failure

Fork xD··4 votes·1,493 views
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance

Your entire report/code of conduct system is a failure if not an utter joke of a system. You have the audacity to ban me based on language while presenting evidence consisting of a game where somebody not only admitted to intentional feeding but also containing much intended as well as uncalled for instigation and counter toxicity. You ignorantly use a system that pulls text from a match on a personal level singling out an individual involved in an argument. Not only is this biased ( I figure it is automated as well) but it is illogical beyond comprehension. Not only have I dedicated hundreds of hours and dollars in your game but I have also brought many friends to the playing field. Yet still you continue to ban such players due to a faulty "modern" idea that my individual rights to express my opinion end where somebody else's feelings begin. Not only is this absolutely illogical and unconstitutional at base, but it is also a cancerous way of thinking that should not be spread by your administration. You have taken the time to implement a mute button as well as chat filter. While you explain that these are last resorts, this explanation is both mundane and ignorant. Which is the simpler option; continuing to chat mute and ban a player, or let the community use the tools at their disposal (which you implemented under the logic that they would be used; a logic that is undermined when you render them useless). You are coddling a community of players that take advantage of your failed system to push a population with different morals and standards out of your game. I find this not only disgusting but completely unprofessional when considering the scale of your game. I would also like to point out that your community moderators are neither emotionally intelligent enough nor able an any way to speak for a community of people as they have tried to do in previous tickets I have submitted. If your staff is unable to take the perspective of more than one social group then I feel that they do not have the mental capacity to handle such matters as banning an account worth such money ( Nor do I think anybody in your company as a whole has any idea what should be done to promote healthy social growth within a community of such scale).

78 Comments

ModThe Djinn12 votes

Which is correct? To coddle those who feel they deserve the right to harass and abuse people, or to coddle those who feel they deserve the right to relax free from harassment and abuse? I would argue it's entirely dependent on your personal opinion -- but, since the the punishment system's rules are based on what the community selects, it's actually not coddling at all. Instead, it's the community dictating rules for itself rather than Riot dictating what the community wants. If people all stopped reporting hate speech tomorrow, all hate speech would be allowed, because you are never punished for things that you are not reported for. The fact that you are currently in the minority is unfortunate for you, and I appreciate your perspective, but it doesn't mean the system needs to adapt to fit your personal (and equally subjective) viewpoint.

Further, a privately run organization is free to set their rules as they see fit. This is why if you abuse people at a Starbucks, or at a movie theater, the management can and will ask you to leave -- and they are not in violation of your individual rights when they do so, as you have a right to your speech and your opinions, but you do NOT have an inherent right to broadcast those on THEIR platform.

Fork xD1 votes

Neither is right which was the point of the post. The idea is to let the community use the implemented features instead of pushing one view over the other. Also, to "harass" is to instigate or bother without cause. This isn't the case in many circumstances but is overlooked based on the preference of some players not to take the time to report. Furthermore if you actually believe that the "community selects code of conduct" then you are naive.

When it comes to hate speech, you may also want to be careful. "Hate speech is, outside the law, speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation."-google definition. There is a defined line between hate speech and banter and the league community is usually ignorant enough to use terms (such as yourself) without actually realizing the nature of them.

Your point on me being a minority is hypocritical in the sense that you bring up your own viewpoint (which is that the sensitive players are the majority which is not backed by statistics nor facts) which is also a fault when it comes to riots logic.

Lastly, I never said I had a right to express my opinions openly on their platform, but rather I suggested that an actual "fair" use of the system should be used.

So before you come at me with subjective/bias views in favor of riot for the sake of saving face, please take the time to add some logic.

ModThe Djinn6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-10-11T05:34:16.455+0000)Neither is right which was the point of the post. The idea is to let the community use the implemented features instead of pushing one view over the over.

Which they do. The community is fully able to decide never to report anyone, in which case no one will ever be punished. If we all decided tomorrow that your view is correct, then that would be it and everyone would be able to do exactly as you wish with no change to the system.

Further, the Tribunal was ENTIRELY player-driven, and the core of the system is entirely based on the player feedback that the Tribunal recieved.

We have confirmation this fact both from Riot and from the fact that those of us who contributed to the tribunal heavily and had high accuracy scores see a very high correlation between what is punished now and things we would have punished then.

Your point on me being a minority is hypocritical in the sense that you bring up your own viewpoint (which is that the sensitive players are the majority which is not backed by statistics nor facts).

It is backed by the best facts available to us, which is what Riot told us about the system. Until I'm provided with better statistics or proof of them lying, I will believe the facts that I'm presented with that seem reasonable given how the system works. If you have hard facts to contest this, by all means share them. Otherwise, I would extend your same statement about logic and facts back at you, because a claim that it is naive to trust the only statistics available is highly subjective at best.

Regardless, it seems apparent that we will simply disagree. As such, I will wish you a good day and bow out of your thread. Best of luck to you.

Fork xD1 votes

Both of your rebutted take things out of context, use past systems as justification, and use "what if's" to describe scenarios where your logic fits nicely. I won't be responding to any more uneducated comments with no reasonable basis.

SEKAI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-11T14:24:56.327+0000)

Both of your rebutted take things out of context, use past systems as justification, and use "what if's" to describe scenarios where your logic fits nicely. I won't be responding to any more uneducated comments with no reasonable basis.

You missed the point, the current report system is player driven, for the most part. Riot set a couple absolutes like buzzword detection but otherwise the current report system is player driven based on the past tribunal results, the analysis player report pattern, and things like that (as well as the fact players have to actively report someone for most of its function to even work; this is why some trolls continue to roam free despite ruining many matches, as many players in the heat of the moment forgot to actually report them after the match before rage-quitting at the end-game lobby).

Fork xD1 votes

[deleted]

SEKAI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-11T20:34:23.253+0000)

You are wrong about the majority of the system and are blind to that idea so it is pointless to argue with you.

This is not how argument works.

Fork xD1 votes

Thank you for agreeing with me.

SEKAI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-11T20:43:27.145+0000)

Thank you for agreeing with me.

You're only digging it deeper kek. You like it down there I guess.

Fork xD1 votes

Ok.

HítlerDidNtWrong1 votes

The correct answer is don't coddle either party and just ignore them and make good games.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

Please pay attention to the age of a thread and restrain yourself from being a necromancer.

EvilDustMan4 votes

Did your flaming stop the int feeder?

Fork xD1 votes

I didn't flame at all actually. I'd be happy to share the chat with you except that riot finds it "fair" to cut your text from the game without any context (other player's text). With that being said, I still didn't curse once in the chat log, explained politely for a generous time, and the "rude" comments made were nothing more than "report him if you want or don't, tbh I don't care." < If this is the new "toxicity" that is not to be admitted than I want nothing to do with the oversensitive community being catered to within this forum and gaming platform. (I also realized your point was that the flaming didn't stop him. Congratulations on that insight; but while you may think of that as a reason, consider the fact that not flaming him also didn't cause him to stop ( so logically that route is just illogical)).

EvilDustMan3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-11T05:41:51.174+0000)

I didn't flame at all actually. I'd be happy to share the chat with you except that riot finds it "fair" to cut your text from the game without any context (other player's text). With that being said, I still didn't curse once in the chat log, explained politely for a generous time, and the "rude" comments made were nothing more than "report him if you want or don't, tbh I don't care." < If this is the new "toxicity" that is not to be admitted than I want nothing to do with the oversensitive community being catered to within this forum and gaming platform. (I also realized your point was that the flaming didn't stop him. Congratulations on that insight; but while you may think of that as a reason, consider the fact that not flaming him also didn't cause him to stop ( so logically that route is just illogical)).

Well, then your chat logs DO have context here, proving you weren't overtly rude.

Fork xD1 votes

While you missed my point and repeated what I already said, I'll just point out that the idea is that they send you a list of your messages ( while deleting the rest of the text from the game) which therefore changes feeling and meaning of the text and therefore renders it useless when trying to be legitimately fair.

If you want to converse further please take the time to understand the comments fully before responding in order to avoid misinterpretation.

BigBellBrute1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-11T14:32:02.161+0000)

While you missed my point and repeated what I already said, I'll just point out that the idea is that they send you a list of your messages ( while deleting the rest of the text from the game) which therefore changes feeling and meaning of the text and therefore renders it useless when trying to be legitimately fair.

If you want to converse further please take the time to understand the comments fully before responding in order to avoid misinterpretation.

Yeah sure. And Romney didn't want to release his taxes because there was nothing there.

Dreamspitter1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah sure. And Romney didn't want to release his taxes because there was nothing there.

https://i.imgur.com/6YRJtld.png

bbc world order4 votes

[deleted]

Fork xD1 votes

Said the well to the rain. (AKA (I'm assuming due to your uninformative and unhelpful comment that you don't understand the quote) I don't care what you think about me and I thought that would be clear from the heading of the post.)

BigBellBrute3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-10-11T05:38:01.874+0000)

Said the well to the rain. (AKA (I'm assuming due to your uninformative and unhelpful comment that you don't understand the quote) I don't care what you think about me and I thought that would be clear from the heading of the post.)

You cared enough to try and convince him you don't care. Too bad for you we all know you're lying and you do care.

ModDaenrysTargaryen4 votes

you are punished for your behavior not anybody else. you said some toxic stuff and riot looks at only what you say, what other people say will not matter. here you say its alright to be toxic to people because they were inting and were toxic to me. this mindset is not okay. next time (hopefully not) do the right thing.

tldr

If you said anything toxic and you got reported you deserved it regardless of what people did in game. The bot lane could have ran it down mid and fed but if you did anything toxic you are responsible for what you say and your actions. Next time just report and do not flame. if what you said regardless of the situation is bad you deserve the ban.

Fork xD1 votes

You say to do the "right thing" in the sense that your opinion of right and wrong is legitimate and concrete. The mindset that if somebody disrespects me and therefore I may speak my mind is absolutely more logical than your idea that a person is required to ignore every comment due to the fear of being punished by the ignorant majority of people (smart people are obviously not the majority as in your case).

I appreciate you sharing your uneducated opinion backed by no evidence, but could you stay out of educated conversation if you are to continue posting nonsensical uninformative comments?

sanshaoye2 votes

why bother arguing about speech rights bro? you're not getting anywhere with the people here. best alternative is to not speak, engage in passive aggressive play, bait out other players and then report them

Fork xD2 votes

You have given the first real advice so far ( negative as it is :p ). It is sad though to think that it is better to abuse a gameplay system in one way in order to make up for another flaw.

sanshaoye1 votes

there is a lot of push back in society towards this sort of thought and speech policing (and political correctness taken to extremes). as with most highly flawed systems, there are almost always very negative unintended consequences which roll out of them and take a life of their own

players creating numerous accounts and trolling games to bait people and then reporting them is one of them. the other one is that this will hit rito's pocketbook. it's fairly safe to assume trolls aren't going to buy accessories for accounts they use to troll games with

so instead of creating a positive gaming environment, all this has done is to create an ultra toxic game environment where people on aggregate are likely to spend less

posters on here like to use examples like "if you were to be rude in a theater to other patrons, you would be kicked out". what they don't cite is that if a patron repeatedly waves a cloth in front of you so you can't watch the movie and intentionally makes loud noises so you can't hear the dialogue, that person would not only be kicked out, he would probably be arrested. but hey look at that 0.00006% and how we successfully shut down "rudeness"

Fork xD1 votes

This is a very good alternative way of wording things ( admittedly more socially acceptable as well =/). Thanks for the insight.

Modi1 votes

What I find irony in, is that OP says

You have taken the time to implement a mute button as well as chat filter.

As if it were a reason he should be able to speak whatever words he wants, because there is a mute button. At the same time, he complains about being "baited into flaming". Why is it only other people that should have to mute him? Why cannot he mute others, to prevent himself from being baited?

sanshaoye1 votes

why can't he say what he wants? in a competitive game where you throw 5 random strangers together and expect them to work as a team, there are going to be disagreements. it's natural to berate each other in such an environment. of course there are limits to what you can say - as in real life e.g. death threats, threats of physical violence etc. but to set up a system to police speech such as "fuck, you idiot - why did you do that, dumbass" is plain idiotic and results in unintended consequences such as players setting up smurf accounts to deliberately troll games, incite reactions and reporting players to get them in trouble

i thought rito would have gotten over this bump after lyte left. seems like the toxic swamp monster has grown even bigger and badder than before

Tenth Leper2 votes

You seriously over value and abuse your brand of "education", sir or ma'am.

MadMad Sickness2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tenth Leper,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-10-11T19:28:13.328+0000)

You seriously over value and abuse your brand of "education", sir or ma'am.

Probs an online degree... But i'm joking of course LOL.

Anyway, being nice to others benefits you regardless of your background/degree/education/ and job because we live in a social society.

Flaming anyone in real life for any reason only puts you in a worse spot then someone who doesn't. And it just so happens to be the same in this game.

BigBellBrute2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-10-11T05:37:36.457+0000)

You say to do the "right thing" in the sense that your opinion of right and wrong is legitimate and concrete. The mindset that if somebody disrespects me and therefore I may speak my mind is absolutely more logical than your idea that a person is required to ignore every comment due to the fear of being punished by the ignorant majority of people (smart people are obviously not the majority as in your case).

I appreciate you sharing your uneducated opinion backed by no evidence, but could you stay out of educated conversation if you are to continue posting nonsensical uninformative comments?

How to win friends and influence people. The call people uneducated, nonsensical and uninformative names technique.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHA!!!
That you got banned for Toxic behavior and can't even discuss it on a message board without also being toxic is telling. Further, if you can't control your childish tantrums in game to the point where you get yourself banned you have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself. Tah Tah. Enjoy your ban.

Fork xD1 votes

[deleted]

MadMad Sickness1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fork xD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hg6mTfm0,comment-id=0002000000020000,timestamp=2017-10-11T19:51:05.076+0000)

I don't remember asking for friends in my post. Also, the fact that you find criticism toxic is telling about your emotional intelligence as well as your ego. Furthermore your claim on my tantrums continues to show your faith in assumptions and misinformation. Enjoy your subjective simple minded life.

I work in a lab in one of the engineering buildings in our school. I once overheard a colleague go over to another colleagues lab and begin to yell at him because he had logged in to a computer for one of the instruments at his desk and had forgotten to log out. The tantrum was overheard through the whole building, and the colleague who was being yelled at began to yell back.

And do you want to know what happened? Nothing...

He left the building because the IT guy was gone and he couldn't get into his computer which lost him valuable time for his projects. This was also unfortunate, because time IS money.

The person who was getting yelled at began to justify himself and the one who was doing the yelling ran off in a tantrum and got nothing accomplished. However, had he been more respectful and had asked gently for corroboration instead of demanding it, i'm sure the other colleague could have asked one of his students to go unlock the computer for him. If he had been more gentle, it would have saved him a bunch of time and effort to remove the lock on his computer and it would have saved him the embarrassment.

Right now, you remind me of the guy who was throwing a tantrum. Though "educated" you are still "ignorant" of the effects of your own behavior.

Regardless of how you feel about your own misbehavior, I'm sorry to say that you entirely deserve whatever disciplinary action was taken against you. And because you may be an "adult" who you could say "knows better": thats not helping you, its only making this worse.

You should know that your behavior has repercussions, and if you don't then that just makes you an "ignorant", though "educated" individual.

Toxicity gets you nowhere, both in real life and in-game, and in every scenario very fast.

Also, I also agree with "THE DJINN" as you seem set. I will also follow him and not respond.

ModDaenrysTargaryen3 votes

learn how the real world works buddy. yes you got big words, but if a co-worker flamed you about how you did your job and called you homophobic/racist words you would take it to the HR and would not respond to your co-worker back with flame or homophobic/racism.

Tenth Leper3 votes

League of Legends is not a nation and is not bound by whatever constitutions you think it is stepping on. Also there is no need to punish them with words for attacking you since the system is already in place to punish them more impactfully with in-game restrictions.

Fork xD1 votes

Except the system relies on biased player input, faulty automated triggering, and then review lacking context. Besides those things I see your point.

Tenth Leper2 votes

You know what? While I still do not agree very much with what my limited understanding leads me to believe was your premise in your original post, I would like to apologize for making so many antagonistic posts in your thread.

It is difficult for me to come to an understanding without the aid of body language and vocal tone, but I am sorry that I (correctly or incorrectly) assumed ill intent of you.

[sg-soraka]

Kloqdq2 votes

What you say or do is completely on you.

Guy insults your wife so you punch him out. You are still arrested for assault but the defense of provocation is only going to lessen the overall punishment. What you say or do is completely held against you and it doesn't matter what the context is in the majority of cases.

Also really important to note unless you used a big trigger word like kys, you had to be a dick A LOT to actually get banned. You are just an asshole blaming the system for something you did because you can't admit to saying, yeah, I was a piece of shit there and deserve that.

This system works perfectly fine because it holds the player to account of what they say or do. Regardless of the context because if you are toxic, you are apart of the problem, almost no matter what the case is. Now there could be good reasons why but because of a inting player? No. You play the game, mute him and then get people to report him. That is how you solve the problem. Not by sinking to his level and giving him 100% what he wants.

Not posting your chat logs is just you trying to bait for support.

sanshaoye2 votes

assault is a crime, insulting people except where you can prove "hate speech" is not. totally flawed example, at least get your logic right please

Fork xD1 votes

Verbal assault is not a crime. Hate speech is much more limited in real life when compared to the teen rated game that already implements a chat filter and mute button. It is also impossible to assault somebody within the virtual reality. So edit: I agree with you.

sanshaoye1 votes

i was replying to KLOQDQ not to your original post

Fork xD2 votes

I'm sorry about that =/.

Kloqdq1 votes

It's a pretty flawed example for sure. The rest of what I say is pretty fair I would say overall. The point is still true. To Riot, everything you say or do in game is completely on you. Others actions rarely ever effect yours when determining punishment for Riot and this is just a bait post at the end of the day.

ChuShoe2 votes

logs please?

ChuShoe1 votes

LOL, downvotes because he knows he said something bad in his logs.

Fork xD1 votes

I don't downvote for no reason. Sorry your comment isn't more popular and that bugs you?

ChuShoe1 votes

Actually it does bug me, I see no reason as to why you shouldn't post your ban logs here. So when I ask for them to see if or if not your ban was justified, I can support you and say "yeah I agree" rather than just me asking for your logs and you downvoting it because I was asking for them. I don't understand why anyone else would downvote it.

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