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i dont think there should be a permanent for players for toxic

DrollerPanther··5 votes·1,385 views

imo i do not think there should be a permaban for players that are just toxic in chat, there should be something like they cant talk in the chat at all not even the 5 chats per game thing that will really make it better and you can still make money with the players that woulda been banned and not given you any income thats almost the same thing as talking them off the rift if there just toxic in chat then remove them from the chat perm and if there afk toixc then that can be a permaban please think this over [slayer-jinx-catface]

47 Comments

Anastaecia8 votes

They get 3 chances to correct themselves. IF they can't do it in that time frame, get rid of em.

fumiefan2 votes

Then they come back on another account for free and "whack-a-flamer" continues.

Joxcab7 votes

Toxic players don't deserve the privilege of playing League.

TheBoninsegna3 votes

"privilege" pls let me laugh for a lil bit.. i believe its more important to understand why they are flaming instead of putting all of them in the same bag. perma bann for behaviour is as fair as going to jail for life because u spit on the street... 6 moths restrictions should be a thing tho

Paquay3 votes

I love when people compare apples and oranges...

Timethief492 votes

I mean they both Hurt if you throw them at someone hard enough.

Joxcab4 votes

No one cares why they are flaming. There is no excuse. And your analogy is absolutely horrible and completely inaccurate.

TheBoninsegna3 votes

there is a diference between getting triggered and reported and poking other people just because i want to

Joxcab1 votes

Guess what? That's irrelevant.

sheldonbunny1 votes

{quoted}

"privilege" pls let me laugh for a lil bit.. i believe its more important to understand why they are flaming instead of putting all of them in the same bag. perma bann for behaviour is as fair as going to jail for life because u spit on the street... 6 moths restrictions should be a thing tho

They can feel free to make another account to repeat their mistakes with.

AlienPrimate1 votes

Since you brought it up, permaban for behavior is as fair as going to jail for life after going to jail for 2 weeks after going to jail overnight after being ticketed for spitting on the street. You knew that spitting on the street is bad and you were just punished for it but you keep going back to your same bad behavior.

themachamp3 votes

{quoted}

Toxic players don't deserve the privilege of playing League.

Actually, they are honored that WE play their game. Without us, Riot would be nothing.

Joxcab1 votes

mhm stay insane

themachamp1 votes

{quoted}

mhm stay insane

Yep, a business with no consumers, that's hella crazy.

fumiefan2 votes

If everyone I reported got banned this year, there'd be almost no players left.

Scarlet Roze3 votes

tbh i have to say there should not be a permban right away what if it was a 6 month then a year then a permaban?

DrollerPanther2 votes

you forget they only toxic in the chat make it so they cant chat and its solved

Paquay2 votes

But it doesn't solve anything. They tried this in the past. The toxic players were basically permamuted and instead of staying silent and playing the game, the would resort to other things to be toxic.

Permamutes don't work. We (the vast majority of the community) don't want to play with toxic players. We want to come on here to enjoy a game and be able to have fun, not listen to someone flame all game, spam ping, and run it down mid because they have personal restraint of a dog in heat.

DrollerPanther1 votes

you dont undersand i said players that only are toxic in chat and not afk or trolling and no they never made it so players cant talk in chat at all

Paquay4 votes

No, you don't understand.

Players that were only toxic in chat were the ones accumulating so many chat restrictions they were essentially permamuted.

Instead of accepting they couldn't flame in chat, they started with other forms of toxicity.

The players you are trying to protect are the players that ruined it for themselves by continuing to escalate their own toxicity.

AzureDragoon2 votes

In other words, what would happen is that the player who'd rack up hundreds/thousands of games of chat restrictions, to the point that it be very unlikely they would ever play out enough games without flaming others. They'd get in their curses and insults, and then as soon as the their chat got muted for using their allotted messages, would then turn to non-verbal means of toxic behavior, I.E. intentional feeding, AFK farming, doing actions in team fights counter-productive to helping team, trolling, etc etc.

Talï1 votes

What about a system that only allows the use of certain phrases, such as "good job" or "ward baron please", for those who exhibit toxic behavior in chat?

Paquay1 votes

That didn't work. Toxic players are toxic. Chat is their outlet. Take the chat away and they find other ways to be toxic.

It's clear you are very passionate about this, but you are making an argument to the wrong crowd. The vast majority of players here have experienced (and probably would be happy never being subjected to) toxic people flaming in chat or trolling their game.

We don't want those players continually ruining our games. If you were to ask every player in League, I would venture you was the majority would actually be all for increased punishments with quicker results. We want a game that is fun to play and we can enjoy. Few people find it enjoyable to play with players who exhibit enough negativity to hit a permaban.

Talï1 votes

So its cool for you to dedicate time and money and have that protected, yet say someone has a few bad weeks, its cool for them to lose everything?

Paquay1 votes

If you work hard and make money and buy a car and then get arrested for a DUI (even without harming anyone) you can very easily lose your car.

Should we say that since they put time and money into something that they are immune to the consequences of their actions?

DrCyanide8 votes

They tired that with infinitely stacking chat restrictions. The players didn't change, they were still problematic, and according to some accounts when they ran out of messages they'd resort to other means to show their rage.

Behaving decently​ isn't that challenging a thing to ask.

Usefully Useless2 votes

Permanent chat ban?

DrCyanide4 votes

Why bother keeping them in the community at all if they can't socially interact with others?

Usefully Useless3 votes

Some people just don't have the genetic tools to deal with it. Doesn't mean they can't function they just lack social skills.

DrCyanide4 votes

Is being decent to others really a social skill?

I know people will say things before thinking them through, usually realizing it in the last few words of the sentence, but you can't always stop typing and hit Esc to make what you typed never exist. It's easier to be decent with a keyboard than it is in person.

It's also no shame to fit in better with some communities than in others. Just because they're not a good fit for the League community doesn't mean that they'd be a bad fit for another video game or a local sports team or club.

Usefully Useless3 votes

Being decent is a moral skill. Morals aren't really a huge teaching point for kids these days, especially with the single parent - double working parent, so that may be an issue. Not what you're saying is wrong by the way. There are extremes to every case.

For MY point of view: I was toxic. Extremely toxic, and from time to time I get fed up and say something (not to the extent of what I used to) but I learned my lesson.

I came from WoW. BG / Arena 24/7. BG's were a cess pool. It was legit hilarious to see replies and conversations. But there were no penalties. It was kinda like trash talk during gym basketball. But it was just viewed differently in League. And there was no mute button in WoW at the time. Or report. Or anything for griefing lol.

Requiring people that play a video game to be decent human beings is over reaching imo. People build businesses and countries by not being decent. I'm sure there are some Riot employees that are not decent people lol.

sheldonbunny4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Usefully Useless,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ferPW8ya,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-07T01:29:25.464+0000)

Being decent is a moral skill. Morals aren't really a huge teaching point for kids these days, especially with the single parent - double working parent, so that may be an issue. Not what you're saying is wrong by the way. There are extremes to every case.

For MY point of view: I was toxic. Extremely toxic, and from time to time I get fed up and say something (not to the extent of what I used to) but I learned my lesson.

I came from WoW. BG / Arena 24/7. BG's were a cess pool. It was legit hilarious to see replies and conversations. But there were no penalties. It was kinda like trash talk during gym basketball. But it was just viewed differently in League. And there was no mute button in WoW at the time. Or report. Or anything for griefing lol.

Requiring people that play a video game to be decent human beings is over reaching imo. People build businesses and countries by not being decent. I'm sure there are some Riot employees that are not decent people lol.

As a single parent, raised by two wonderfully dysfunctional parents better off divorced than the hell they put their kids through, I call complete bs. I'm not a good person. I'm fine with not being one. However, I treat people with basic respect and kindness regardless. Weak willed and minded people, self centered and selfish people will find every excuse under the sun to act like spoiled toddlers.

Riot is allowed to create policy any way they see fit. They don't want to accept it. Enough of the community doesn't want to accept it. We all sign the agreement saying we agree to following their policy. Anyone not liking it can go elsewhere, fall in line, or deal with consequences.

It's more laughable seeing people endlessly argue over being decent to one another.

Usefully Useless1 votes

It's also laughable that you thought I was judgmental. It wasn't. It's called the latchkey generation for a reason. And the new "helicopter parenting" era. Such a vicious cycle.

Usefully Useless1 votes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid

I'd like to refer you to the "Effects on children". Since you called BS. Research is research.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Usefully Useless,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ferPW8ya,comment-id=000100010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-07T02:19:13.967+0000)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid

I'd like to refer you to the "Effects on children". Since you called BS. Research is research.

"Effects on children" is there to explain the social phenomenon or a trend, when under a certain circumstance. It's called an "effect" because it's suggestive and not compulsive/dictative. One can be influenced by their growing environment, sure, but their actions is ultimately their own doing. Because let's face it, we know the VAST majority of people don't have an anywhere perfect childhood or upbringing, and most turned out just fine. And much like most people in fact don't have a happy childhood, most don't have it that bad either, and there is very little excuses for being a piece of shit to other people tbh.

The person is correct in stating that people should take responsibility for their actions and treat others with at least basic decency; you on the other hand are saying that people are not perfect and some engage in bad things because they may or may not have a happy and perfect growing environment (which most don't) hence it's entirely okay to be a piece of shit to each other because?

No, I disagree.

Also, moral is not being not taught to children. Everyone come across that in everyday life in all corners of the world besides the absolute worst places (hell even there it has glimmers of moral from time to time), and may or may not get a couple wake-up calls in their lifetime as well. The issue is that many people choose to ignore it despite that. It really comes down to the matter of personal choice, and taking responsibility for the said choices, as far as I'm aware.

Usefully Useless1 votes

"you on the other hand are saying that people are not perfect and some engage in bad things because they may or may not have a happy and perfect growing environment (which most don't) hence it's entirely okay to be a piece of shit to each other because?"

No, it's not entirely okay. It is also not a video game's responsibility to say "Hey, we don't know why you act the way you act, or that there may be a million reasons why you are what you are, but you can't play our game because you are not a decent person when you are mad or agitated in a virtual world where you can be muted and nobody has to see a word you say".

Run it down mid, int, grief - permaban. Can't control your words? Just don't let them type.

I have PTSD. I've been permabanned on two other accounts. Literally cannot control heated moments, inside or outside of this game. So I refuse to believe that because someone says someone in a hostile situation that it makes them "not a decent human being". I HAVE to mute anyone that says something agitating, I HAVE to say what I want to type out loud to get my head straight.

Does my condition make me an asshole? Sure looks that way. Am I actually one? Nah, I've got a pretty good heart.

This is the beauty about arguments. I may have my point of view, but I'm not telling you that YOU are wrong. However, you are telling ME that I am wrong. Even though I live and breathe it every day.

Oh and before the "you should get help". Therapy and medication don't cure it. It's been 3 years and the only difference is that I actually don't isolate myself from crowds and I sleep a little better.

And that's all I've got. But now I see why people argue about politics. I've never once told anyone they were wrong. Made my argument. But it's apparently justified to "not be a decent human being" if you think someone is "not being a decent human being". GL HF

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Usefully Useless,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ferPW8ya,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-07T16:51:04.358+0000)

"you on the other hand are saying that people are not perfect and some engage in bad things because they may or may not have a happy and perfect growing environment (which most don't) hence it's entirely okay to be a piece of shit to each other because?"

No, it's not entirely okay. It is also not a video game's responsibility to say "Hey, we don't know why you act the way you act, or that there may be a million reasons why you are what you are, but you can't play our game because you are not a decent person when you are mad or agitated in a virtual world where you can be muted and nobody has to see a word you say".

Run it down mid, int, grief - permaban. Can't control your words? Just don't let them type.

The internet is not a virtual world, and even if it is, it matters just as much as the real one.

I mean, because you're talking to someone across the phone, does it suddenly makes it okay to shit-talk to them?

"Oh, you could just hang-up on them." Sure, that's indeed very true, but that still doesn't mean the act of talking shit for no reason itself is okay in the first place.

This is the same deal.

Yes, you can block and mute. But we still need some ground rules. This is the gist of the rationale.

I have PTSD. I've been permabanned on two other accounts. Literally cannot control heated moments, inside or outside of this game. So I refuse to believe that because someone says someone in a hostile situation that it makes them "not a decent human being". I HAVE to mute anyone that says something agitating, I HAVE to say what I want to type out loud to get my head straight.

Does my condition make me an asshole? Sure looks that way. Am I actually one? Nah, I've got a pretty good heart.

This is the beauty about arguments. I may have my point of view, but I'm not telling you that YOU are wrong. However, you are telling ME that I am wrong. Even though I live and breathe it every day.

Oh and before the "you should get help". Therapy and medication don't cure it. It's been 3 years and the only difference is that I actually don't isolate myself from crowds and I sleep a little better.

And that's all I've got. But now I see why people argue about politics. I've never once told anyone they were wrong. Made my argument. But it's apparently justified to "not be a decent human being" if you think someone is "not being a decent human being". GL HF

I have no idea how severe your supposed PTSD is, but unless your brain is is physically damaged or affected in some way or that the mental issues are very serious, otherwise it's nothing uncontrollable.

Hell, speaking of PTSD, I do have a case of that too, though it's incredibly minor. In essence, I got PTSD from my stress in my university work, where due to a string of failing and other things violating my ass overtime currently I would occasionally dream about scenarios such as sitting in a final examination and not knowing how to write the answers, or that I dreamed about having big assessment due and I hadn't started, only to wake up to sunlight and bird chirps and taking a couple seconds to realise that the exams are already over. My mood also swings when it comes to completing things, I have become very sensitive to the notion of failing you see. Whenever big challenges of a given task appears, I will panic and my personality would go down the drain. I could become rude, I won't listen to other's inputs, I became short-fused and sometimes violent and defensive.

Given all of that, have I ever once used that as a shield and say "meh can't help it, I'm just like that"? Maybe sometimes, but I've always tried to overcome this issue of mine. I mean just the other day I read up advises on how to listen to other's opinion during a conversation, and tried to put it into use, and did get a more dynamic talking experience than usual. And I've never been banned in League ever since I'd started playing like in 2010 or 2011.

Again, unless your case is extreme, every and anyone should have full control over themselves, and even if it is extreme, you can't just up your arms and say "welp". One should be responsible for themselves, this is true for pretty much everything, and especially true for your general behaviours. This is not shoving stuff down your throat mind you, this is the very same idea of the "you have your opinions and I have mine" you're saying just now. Because precisely that you respect others, you don't offend others, and you don't like it when offences are handed out. It's that simple and straightforward, there is nothing dogmatic or draconian in the idea of "social moral" or other buzz-phrases such as "basic human decency", it is just an extension of basic respect, which you yourself also approve of.

...........

Not to mention, Riot is a private enterprise, they have the right to choose who they want to provide service to, because they're not a public/government service. They by law literally can kick off any and everybody from their service list and block every player; it's all within their full right to do so assuming the reasoning isn't rooted in discrimination against protected groups and minorities. Most companies don't do that not because of the law restricting them to, but because it will generate negative PR and hurting their business.

In other words, when Riot says that something is okay, then that something is okay, when they say something is not okay, then it is not okay. If you don't like it, then too bad, it's just how private sector works. They are not obliged to heed your personal opinion, but the clients are to listen theirs; or else you could just find another person to deal with, just as they could just terminate the contract if they don't feel they're on the same wavelength with you. Sure companies are generally open to compromises and negotiations, but their final say still remain absolute because after all, it's their business.

So even if we ignore all of the more philosophical aspect of the discussion, there is a very real and practical reason to abide by the rule. Because either you go with it and business continue as usual with Riot, or that Riot may find it inadequate and close off the trade route. So it's also something to consider.

Usefully Useless1 votes

"I have no idea how severe your supposed PTSD is, but unless your brain is is physically damaged or affected in some way or that the mental issues are very serious, otherwise it's nothing uncontrollable.

Hell, speaking of PTSD, I do have a case of that too, though it's incredibly minor. In essence, I got PTSD from my stress in my university work, where due to a string of failing and other things violating my ass overtime currently I would occasionally dream about scenarios such as sitting in a final examination and not knowing how to write the answers, or that I dreamed about having big assessment due and I hadn't started, only to wake up to sunlight and bird chirps and taking a couple seconds to realise that the exams are already over. My mood also swings when it comes to completing things, I have become very sensitive to the notion of failing you see. Whenever big challenges of a given task appears, I will panic and my personality would go down the drain. I could become rude, I won't listen to other's inputs, I became short-fused and sometimes violent and defensive.

Given all of that, have I ever once used that as a shield and say "meh can't help it, I'm just like that"? Maybe sometimes, but I've always tried to overcome this issue of mine. I mean just the other day I read up advises on how to listen to other's opinion during a conversation, and tried to put it into use, and did get a more dynamic talking experience than usual. And I've never been banned in League ever since I'd started playing like in 2010 or 2011.

Again, unless your case is extreme, every and anyone should have full control over themselves, and even if it is extreme, you can't just up your arms and say "welp". One should be responsible for themselves, this is true for pretty much everything, and especially true for your general behaviours. This is not shoving stuff down your throat mind you, this is the very same idea of the "you have your opinions and I have mine" you're saying just now. Because precisely that you respect others, you don't offend others, and you don't like it when offences are handed out. It's that simple and straightforward, there is nothing dogmatic or draconian in the idea of "social moral" or other buzz-phrases such as "basic human decency", it is just an extension of basic respect, which you yourself also approve of.

...........

Not to mention, Riot is a private enterprise, they have the right to choose who they want to provide service to, because they're not a public/government service. They by law literally can kick off any and everybody from their service list and block every player; it's all within their full right to do so assuming the reasoning isn't rooted in discrimination against protected groups and minorities. Most companies don't do that not because of the law restricting them to, but because it will generate negative PR and hurting their business.

In other words, when Riot says that something is okay, then that something is okay, when they say something is not okay, then it is not okay. If you don't like it, then too bad, it's just how private sector works. They are not obliged to heed your personal opinion, but the clients are to listen theirs; or else you could just find another person to deal with, just as they could just terminate the contract if they don't feel they're on the same wavelength with you. Sure companies are generally open to compromises and negotiations, but their final say still remain absolute because after all, it's their business.

So even if we ignore all of the more philosophical aspect of the discussion, there is a very real and practical reason to abide by the rule. Because either you go with it and business continue as usual with Riot, or that Riot may find it inadequate and close off the trade route. So it's also something to consider."

In my specific case, I was in an explosion and was very (inches) close to death. People like to throw "PTSD" around for stressful situations but the way my doctors explained PTSD to me is this:

Your brain has a common peak and trough in which you deal with emotions - ranging from the highs (happiness) and the lows (sadness). Picture a line going through the middle as your every day, normal feelings.

When you experience a traumatic incident the brain troughs extremely high or extremely low and it may / may not return to the normal ebb and flow of a normal human being.

To relate this to my point: When you get mad you go "Ok, it's not that big of a deal, I'll let it go". My brain says "WTF OMGZ PANCAKES". It's instantaneous, I can apologize for it but the damage is done.

I'm sure not only people with PTSD have that same , let's call it "limiter". It is what it is.

By the way, one of the most appalling things I ever hear is "using it as a shield". Making an argument vs trying to tear down someone is not cool. Not cool at all. People can't see something, so it must not exist.

Legitimately, the only replies I get are of people trying to just tear my argument down. Not just make an argument for myself. These are the same people getting mad for people "Not being decent human beings" but AT THE SAME TIME are willing to get on here and bash someone and denounce an actual condition. Hypocritical.

How dare you get mad at a video game, but it's cool to poke and prod someone for having an actual existing medical condition. I literally laughed out loud. Insanity!

Time to bounce off this thread, it's hard to make valid points vs imbeciles. They drag you down and beat you with experience. GLHF

Troll Armada2 votes

The first three words are accurate.


oh okay, look, I understand the point you're trying to make, and to some extent agree, minus the racist, misogynist, homophobic stuff. People should be able to trash talk the enemy team, but folks who trash talk their own team is just wrong from a team sport perspective.

(And I won't even mention what I consider to be the cockroaches of league, those who trash talk their own team to the enemy team in all chat)

HOWEVER, that boat sailed after Riot Lyte handed out the kool-aid years ago. It's actually quite brilliant, since it enables Riot to be seen as fighting a never-ending battle with toxic chatters, while botters/boosters/stalkers run wild.

Either way, this isn't anything new now that they have been doing this full force for over three years, at what point do you finally learn what the consequences are.... ?

Usefully Useless2 votes

So let's say you own a company. You hire 500 workers. Out of those workers, 50 complain all the time and make the other employees uncomfortable, 50 of them leave halfway through their shift or never show up. You can learn to deal with the loud mouth idiots, but the show simply cannot go on if you don't show or leave early.

This is what's been lost. I don't care to punish toxic players , but punish the chronic AFKers just as much. 30 min que timers are nothing. They're probably just going to play HotS until the que pops and leave their HotS game.

DrCyanide2 votes

So let's say you own a company. You hire 500 workers. Out of those workers, 50 complain all the time and make the other employees uncomfortable, 50 of them leave halfway through their shift or never show up. You can learn to deal with the loud mouth idiots, but the show simply cannot go on if you don't show or leave early.

I think you drew the wrong conclusion to your own example.

If 50 workers are causing 450 workers to not be comfortable, you've got 450 workers being less effective (complaining about it to other workers, frustrations, etc) or looking to leave your company all together. Why put up with their crap if you don't have to?

If you've got 50 workers not showing up or leaving early, those 50 aren't as likely to upset the other 450. Yes, management will have issues with the 50 not working enough, but things will still roll along.

Both would be addressed, but for very different reasons.

Source: being in the work place and seeing both behaviors.

Usefully Useless2 votes

Let's go even further. If you could mute said workers, just for argument sake, on top of what I just said.

I've worked with both kinds. When people aren't there I'm both unhappy and I work harder. There are assholes employed and stay employed for their entire lives. Don't really know anybody that has retired while missing a consistent amount of work. Purely my opinion, but if I'm doing my job I could care if you are my friend or not, just do your job!

AleksaTeemo1 votes

Muting is not really a option.League of legends is a TEAM game,you need to communicate with your team to win.If toxic players make you and your entire team focus,why would not they be punished?

Hyperiön1 votes

That's what pings are for.

AleksaTeemo1 votes

They will most likely ignore it.

higura1 votes

we already saw what happens when you take away the chat for toxic ppl when chat restriction was first used many seasons back (back when ppl would have 1000+ games chat restriction ).

the short of it is, sense they couldn't flame in chat would toxic players just feed/ troll/ stop helping team/ afk/ ruin the game for everyone insted.

Colgate Gator1 votes

Let's agree to disagree, then.

For now, the current system stays and the toxic shitheads get banned, though.

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