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Why have good men and women lost their voices?

Twigs·11/9/2015, 6:52:42 AM·18 votes·1,442 views

Hi everyone, this will be the first time ever, posting anything on the forum. I've been playing since Season 1, on a casual level. Usually I don't find that raising ones voice helps much, and seeing how most people are met with riots and ill-wished comments, I never did this before.

However this morning I experienced something that I feel the need to share. I was in a game.. People were doing their usual shennanigens, and I survived a few close encounters in the mid-lane, call it luck if you wish, but it prompted my opponement to write following in all-chat: "You deserve to die".

Now I don't know how common you find death threats, nevertheless I know it is a clear violation of the summoner's code. How disguisted I was to find out, that people actually had no intention of reporting him. Furthermore, when I explained to them why it was a violation, quote: "It is a direct threat to my person, hence an offense." I was met with the Lucian making a slave reference instead. Unfortunately this all to well describes the problem we're facing today. People spreading toxicity, and yet people don't report them.

This thread has been a long time coming. Lately I've been met with some good moments, but none of it outweights all the bad you have to deal with. I don't know how this will be met by the community, and to a certain extent I don't care. I'm using this thread to ventilate some of the things I find wrong. Yet I am hoping that someone out there shares this view, or even to inspire someone to actually start reporting offenses she/he see, so we as a community can attempt to extinguish, this dreadful habbit people have gotten. I love this game, but I do not want to log off, kind of sad, because you're met with a tsunami of insults, which other people in your team consider random banter, as long as it isn't targetted towards them.

Also I don't know if Riot actually reads the forums, but if they do, I would love to know more about how this tribunal system really works. Speaking on my own behalf there is nothing more frustrating than finishing a game, and you're in such ill-mood that you log off for the night, and you don't even know if the person you reported actually gets punished. Is there any way you can shed some light on this?

I do like the approach to deny people, who have been punished in the tribunal, their seasonal rewards. Yet there is one major flaw in the approach, which is what I'm highlighting, or attempting to do so, in this thread. How can we truly say the tribunal is making a better community, when people don't even report obvious offenses? Unpunished offenders tend to repeat incriminating acts, if they feel they won't get punished.

Nevertheless, to all who did, thanks for taking your time to read this. You don't have to agree, you don't even have to disagree. The fact that you took a minute to read this, means a lot.

14 Comments

LegendaryLemur11/9/2015, 7:17:45 AM7 votes

You're not alone, plenty of people report anyone who behaves that way. Just mute and report, confident that they won't be around for long.

Kao Atlantis11/9/2015, 7:15:47 AM3 votes

Hello GROWLITHE LV100,

Thanks for writing such a succinct and well thought-out post. I love reading people's perspective on these things. Riot does read these boards and I am sure they will read this. I understand how frustrating things can be when you encounter toxic behaviour in the game. I have also logged out of the game after a match because someone was extremely toxic towards myself or friends that I was playing with.

As a long time player of League of Legends, I can tell you that it is becoming a lot more rare to get toxic behaviour that extreme. Riot has definitely been taking a lot of really good steps to identify and remove those players. If you look around on the boards, you will see that Riot takes death threats, racist slurs, and sexual slurs very seriously and it can actually cause people to get banned permanently without having to go through the smaller punishments first.

If you are interested in learning more about how their systems work, how far they have come from the beginning, and what they are working on to improve these kinds of things in the game, I would highly recommend checking out Lyte's MIT Talk. In the talk he discusses how they try and shape player behaviour within the game. With the amount of thought you have put into this, you may find it really interesting and reassuring. Here is the link if you are curious: http://www.media.mit.edu/video/view/lin-2015-03-12

I hope the rest of your games this week and beyond go much better.

Twigs11/9/2015, 8:34:04 AM3 votes

Hi there, I'm glad you took the time to read, what I had to say. I'm also thrilled that you took your time, to get back to me. I am currently watching the clip, that you linked. So far it is quite fascinating, seeing he is addressing pretty much everything I just experienced, and more. So I wanted to thank you for linking me the video, Kao Atlantis. I'm also glad to know I am not alone with this, LegendaryLemur, I know the approach you describe is the right way to do it, but what prompted this post was actually, that I was beginning to loose faith in the established system. Worth pointing out that I am a lot more optimistic, seeing you took the time to read and reply, and also from the clip that was linked.

(:

TBakes11/9/2015, 4:03:36 PM2 votes

Hey Growlithe Lv100!

I just wanted to pop in and let you know I share the same views. It is disheartening and kind of baffling how desensitized some people have become to hatred, violent speech, death threats, slander, profanity, etc. and do not even see these as issues. These types of behaviors actually affect my gameplay and attitude every game. I honestly do feel the effects of a positive attitude and how it translates into a higher chance of winning. However, in those instances where we do not have such a positive experience, I too would like to know that my report is actually translating into action on Riot's part (and I believe it does).

However, I would like to express that I believe this to be a societal issue, something part of the bigger picture. I don't believe the average gamer, or the average person even, is really inherently wrong or evil. However, in the modern age we have anonymity in the internet. This makes it so much easier to express your anger and project your negative feelings onto others with little to no direct consequence. For example, I doubt the majority of LoL players who are reported for threats in the game have ever made a real threat to someone's face in real life. We are also living in a time of human disconnection, which makes it so much easier for individuals to deny the humanity in others and ignore the Golden Rule ("do unto others as you would have them do unto you").

I'm sure there are plenty of people who read through this thread and just assume that we are all overly sensitive, "it's just a game", what good is a game without innocent trash talk, right? They do not even see how their actions affect others and how others' actions affect them. I'm sure the individuals who are toxic towards others also become extremely toxic towards someone who initiates toxicity towards them (if that makes sense), instead of muting and reporting like they should. It's really unfortunate that there are people who play this game and have simply accepted that toxicity and negativity are a part of it. Or that the game has somehow fostered negativity among its player, and this just simply is not true.

I do believe that these extreme cases are much less common than we think. Lyte has mentioned several times that we are more likely, psychologically, to remember more clearly an intense negative situation than a neutral or positive one. The actual percentage of occurrences is low, but with so many games happening every day, there are still more reportable situations occurring than we would prefer.

I believe in humanity. I do not think that humans are innately evil or want to be hateful towards others. But, as Kao Atlantis mentioned, the best thing we can do is be a positive source of energy in our games and try to help transmit that energy into our teammates. Praise good plays; downplay mistakes. Encourage teammates to do their best and just have fun!

summoner 31

Mortifer Arceus11/9/2015, 10:20:20 AM2 votes

You have to realize that League is the most popular game in the world now. Even though at first this game was really enjoyable community wise ANYONE can download it. I'm not saying the community is bad as a whole, it is just that as the game became more popular, more players with negative attitudes also join the community. My personal opinion would be to join a gaming community and play with people like minded [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

nerak2311/9/2015, 2:05:42 PM1 votes

OP a lot of people share your basic opinion and Riot is making many steps to help make a difference. One point I agree on with you and need to work on myself is actually using the report button for obvious offenses.

Sometimes I don't use it because the person broke the rules but I didn't see the 'horrible nasty' things like hate speech and such. But after reading so many thread about punishments I have come to realize that those unnecessary insults thrown around in games should get reported also.

The reason I have come to believe this is because those comments while on their own may not seem all that bad, what it does is encourage people to do the same thing and it becomes an endless circle.

Personally, I'd like to see active Red's explaining more on these things...similar to or being Lyte smites, or a 'Lyte light' maybe someone coming on and explain what one can do to lessen the use of the insults and avoid permma bans. At the least this would do is help someone who is on the verge of becoming a repeat offender. JMO :)

Wirius11/9/2015, 4:44:14 PM1 votes

Hey there OP. Its very easy to fall into the trap of thinking the world is a bad place or people don't care anymore when you see one bad incident and forget the other 9 instances there was no problem. The reality is about 95% of people are good people. Sometimes we make mistakes, or don't realize we're hurting another person. Admonish poor behavior, but don't let it start making you think that's the norm.

  To avoid the trap of thinking the 5% are the world, take care of the one person you can, you.  Be the good person who speaks up, like you are now.  Report when you see poor behavior.  Realize there is a system in place to handle it established by more good people.   Remember that more people want positive interactions in game than negative.  Be that reality, and your world will be surrounded by other good people who will support you.
ReQnosis11/9/2015, 7:04:26 PM1 votes

#Warning, incoming Rant that may or may not address your concerns.

~

I created this account a few months ago (this is like my 4th, over the last 4-5 years) and honestly, the problem of "Toxic" people is an interesting topic. Mainly because it's not really a black/white issue.

People will always "justify" why they're being toxic (d-bags) and feel like they're the real victim.

IE: The ones I run into that feed/troll, seem to do it because someone did something that "offends" them (You took their lane or You're playing a champion they hate or You're not playing the champion they wanted you to play, ect).

Examples of justifications for being "toxic" against other "toxic" people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjzgbZL12VI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XKjGvjY9pg

~

At the end of the day, this problem is complicated because a lot of people become toxic for different reasons and have their own justifications for doing so.

IE: This guy is feeding, ruining my game, so I should be able to tell him to "eat a bag of dicks" or to "kill himself".

It's the same problem we face with ideologies of today.

IE: Feminism (Mans disagrees with Feminist, she views his criticism as "harassment", so she feels justified in saying that we should Hashtag "KillAllMen" as well as get him put in Jail).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX37YsFJvR0

~

The problem, seems to stem from certain mindsets.

  1. People wanting to feel like a "special snowflake" thus try to act out, to get attention.
  2. People unwilling to admit they're doing something wrong.
  3. People having a "victim complex" and try to justify their actions by claiming to take the moral highground.

The question then becomes, how do you "identify" which of these mindsets those people have. Then, how to help those people realize they're being d-bags?

IE: Banning them has it's own issues, but taking away their "rewards" really doesn't really help.

This is mainly because people that have "nothing to lose" or feel like they were taken advantage of, will now feel justified in being Toxic to teach the community a lesson, because they can't get back at RIOT directly. (They worked all year to get their rewards, and because someone felt "offended". Now they've lost everything, so someone must pay for this injustice!).

Baron of Bread11/9/2015, 8:16:01 PM1 votes

Based upon your description of the event I would have assumed that when they said that they meant it as in: those "close encounters" should have killed you, but I guess I am missing something.

Parkler1411/9/2015, 9:47:10 PM1 votes

Ahri u Evelynn item 3100 2 uself

HyperZEROXL12/11/2015, 6:52:48 PM1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs] These days when I hear that I just ignore them until the end then report them. There's no need for life threatening in a game, it's just stupid...