http://i67.tinypic.com/14l0j78.png
http://i64.tinypic.com/b5jou1.png
http://i63.tinypic.com/4huwqg.png
Yall can just jump right into it. And since context/backstory is important, any questions are welcome.
zoliking9 votesFrom the logs: "If only I could be banned for being annoying"... Ahahahahahahahaaaa.... But dude, seriously, you play Janna instead of top, spend more time typing than playing, announce every time when you are muting a player and you are surprised by the ban?
BritneyFear1 votesFrom the logs: "If only I could be banned for being annoying"... Ahahahahahahahaaaa.... But dude, seriously, you play Janna instead of top, spend more time typing than playing, announce every time when you are muting a player and you are surprised by the ban?
That.... Makes no sense to me. Could you elaborate for me what you are trying to convey please? The thread is about what is considered crossing the line where a ban is justified. If you believe there is something I'm not "getting" feel free to explain it to me so I may understand what you are thinking. [slayer-jinx-wink]
zoliking3 votesThat.... Makes no sense to me. Could you elaborate for me what you are trying to convey please? The thread is about what is considered crossing the line where a ban is justified. If you believe there is something I'm not "getting" feel free to explain it to me so I may understand what you are thinking. [slayer-jinx-wink]
Well, the quote was funny because of the context, if you thought I was laughing at your misfortune, I apologize, I wasn't.
What I'm getting at with the rest:
The three add up to you being distruptive to your team's ability to win. In my mind the fist point is the most damning, in Riot's it's probably the last.
BritneyFear1 votesWell, the quote was funny because of the context, if you thought I was laughing at your misfortune, I apologize, I wasn't.
What I'm getting at with the rest:
- Pick trolling is assissting the other team.
- Spending half the time you are in the game on typing to your teammates prevents you from actually helping, assisting the other team, not to mention it provokes your teammates into doing the same.
- Telling your teammates you are muting them, serves no other purpose than to be rude and dismissive.
The three add up to you being distruptive to your team's ability to win. In my mind the fist point is the most damning, in Riot's it's probably the last.
Do you have proof I am "Pick trolling?"
Why can't there be players like me in existence who actually enjoy the game as those champions in some cases (Such as Top or mid)
I also find your view of being dismissive a bad thing rather odd.
Would it not be appropriate to not consider hateful/purely toxic comments?
Let me know how you feel about this. And thank you for continuing the conversation with me ~
zoliking1 votesDo you have proof I am "Pick trolling?"
You straight up admit to it in one of the logs.
Why can't there be players like me in existence who actually enjoy the game as those champions in some cases (Such as Top or mid)
There can, but you have to have your team's consent which will be tricky in games where you are playing with strangers. Otherwise you are hurting the team's collective chances for your own personal preference.
I also find your view of being dismissive a bad thing rather odd.
Dismissing them an not replying is ok. Being dismissive is a form of communication that makes the one doing it, for the lack of a better term, a dick. If you put your opinion out there waiting for a response from somebody would you be ok if they didn't write anything back? Would you be ok with them replying "You are a nobody, and whatever comes out of your mouth is worthless trash not even worthy for me to deal with it." The first is dismissing them, the second is an extreme example of being dismissive.
Would it not be appropriate to not consider hateful/purely toxic comments?
As I have stated I care a lot less about comments than detrimental gameplay, but Riot is very particular about how people behave in chat instead. If it was up to me the troll picking and the quantity of your communication would still be an issue, but I'd be okay with the content. Riot doesn't give a flying fuck about the troll picking, but telling players that you are muting or reporting them is something they for some reason consider unacceptable.
Let me know how you feel about this. And thank you for continuing the conversation with me ~
That's the point of a forum.
BritneyFear1 votesYou straight up admit to it in one of the logs.
Wait where? lol [sg-ahri-3] Could you reference that for me please. I legitimately do play support champions as top because its my own personal preference.
zoliking1 votesWait where? lol [sg-ahri-3] Could you reference that for me please. I legitimately do play support champions as top because its my own personal preference.
Dunno, I vaguely recall you saying you played Janna top. But if you didn't admit it in the logs, you just did here. And gameplay info gets to the people deciding on punishments regardless of chat. (They generally don't care, but at least they know about it)
BritneyFear2 votesYou said I said I was troll Picking. I said I play Janna top but im not trolling.
Are you trolling ME right now? lol [sg-miss-fortune]
zoliking1 votesYou said I said I was troll Picking. I said I play Janna top but im not trolling.
Are you trolling ME right now? lol [sg-miss-fortune]
How is Janna a top laner? Top laners are supposed to be good 1v1 and a fighting force for the team. If the jungle or support don't cover them on tankage, they are supposed to be the team's front line. Janna is a support champion who pokes and disengages, clearly not a top laner.
BritneyFear1 votesSo until you can prove to us that I actually said I was trolling in any spec. I think our conversation is over. [slayer-jinx-unamused]
zoliking1 votesSo until you can prove to us that I actually said I was trolling in any spec. I think our conversation is over. [slayer-jinx-unamused]
You said you picked Janna instead of a top laner. You were very clear on this. This in and of itself is an egregious form of trolling. What the hell are you talking about proving any further than that? [sg-lux-2]
Imperial Pandaa3 votesPlaying Off Meta is not trolling. If they are playing to win then Janna top is perfectly fine. You don't even need team's permission.
zoliking1 votes[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eYVXONML,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-08T17:42:41.251+0000)
Playing Off Meta is not trolling. If they are playing to win then Janna top is perfectly fine. You don't even need team's permission.
How nice of you to declare that.
This is a team game. Everybody is assigned a role that they need to do. Not all champions can do all the roles. You can't arbitrarily pick any champion to any role, because your team relies on you to do your part on it. If you pick a champion that you know is not a valid pick for the role, you are assisting the other team, by immediately weakening your own. You especially cannot troll pick if you are the jungler, the support or the adc, because not only do the rest of the team rely on you in a general manner, but other players' ability to their parts is directly influenced by you being able to do yours. Let me give you an analogy: if you are on a SWAT team and the guy who is supposed to cover your back on an operation announces that he finds the idea of fighting with a fly swatter funny and therefore intends to do so, you won't be likely to go along with it. Troll picking is one of the worst kinds of screwing with your team and is only acceptable if you have your team's consent. If you want to make all your choices arbitrarily without consideration for anybody or anything else, there are plenty of single player and 1v1 games out there to entertain you, but you don't belong in a team game.
Imperial Pandaa2 votesOkay, lets address you analogy first. This is a videogame, not some real world operation. If the swat member wants to do it during a drill then that is different.
Now as far as picks being to certain areas. Just no, and it is going to be changing even more in the future. It is great when the entire team builds an amazing comp. However, people are still allowed to pick what they want to. As long as they play to win. Otherwise new positions wouldn't be established. I.e. the Malz support.
TheProfezzor1 votesAs imperial said off meta picks is not considered trolling or reportable. This has been stated by Riot. Discussion for Janna pick top as trolling closed. Thanks.
zoliking1 votesAs imperial said off meta picks is not considered trolling or reportable. This has been stated by Riot. Discussion for Janna pick top as trolling closed. Thanks.
First of all, troll picking and off meta picking are not the same. Picking a champion that's viable in the position but weaker than other options for the same position is an off-meta pick and it's perfectly fine. Troll picking is when you pick some arbitrary nonsense that immediately weakens your team by not having the kit necessary to perform the duties of the role.
Second, they also said that assisting the other team is reportable. With these two contradictory guidelines in play, it makes sense to abide by the one that makes the game better.
Finally, but probably most importantly, this being Riot's playground and as such them being the final arbiters, does not make them automatically right in any question in principle. And yes, they established a heavily troll pick favoring message and set of policies. They are wrong. And they won't even bother to reconsider their faulty position until there is a shift in culture, which will never happen as long as people who are too lazy to try to analyze the questions in detail on a theoretical level just regurgitate any position without supporting it in principle. In a real life analogy: you can argue over whether the death sentence is right or wrong, it's a complicated issue with a lot of arguments on both sides. What would never be a valid part of it is: "But it is law in many places, and so it must be right. I win, boo yah. I'm smart. S-M-R-T, I mean S-M-A-R-T."
And by the way nobody other than moderators have the power to unilaterally end a discussion through any other means than to quit. So there is no need to thank me, disregarding somebody arrogantly titling themselves the winner of an argument before they even have a chance to receive the counter argument to whatever point they were so sure of is a natural response you will most likely get from anybody.
Imperial Pandaa1 votesAttaching here so reply notifications work again.
During drills, stuff happens because sometimes they aren't serious. So maybe it is also important to know what queue they are playing in.
The reason I said just no is because even Riot as come out and said they plan on making it easier for champs to go to other positions.
I agree having a balance is nice for a team. It is great when everyone fills a certain role. Some champs are flexible enough to be played other places and I won't consider it a troll pick unless there pick it out of malice. There is a case with a Soraka top. They picked it because they banned the Swain. Even though they went positive I consider it a troll because they basically griped the entire match about it. I.e. : "Bet you wish you didn't ban Swain now."
Malz was but one example of it. Admittedly most of them involve people going to support: Sion, Ornn, MF, Maokai, Nautilus way back when. Some jungle: Morgana, Zyra
Once again, yes, some are better in certain positions though. I feel, again, queue is important. I have taken Taric top and built him with an on hit build. Won lane vs a Riven and was able to 1v1 their adc. Would I do that in ranked? Not until comfortable with it so maybe after 10 more games. Have I used this theory before taken a champ somewhere? Yes Malphite Support.
Pick does not mean troll. Intent of pick does.
zoliking1 votes[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eYVXONML,comment-id=000200000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-09T00:08:29.335+0000)
Attaching here so reply notifications work again.
During drills, stuff happens because sometimes they aren't serious. So maybe it is also important to know what queue they are playing in.
The reason I said just no is because even Riot as come out and said they plan on making it easier for champs to go to other positions.
I agree having a balance is nice for a team. It is great when everyone fills a certain role. Some champs are flexible enough to be played other places and I won't consider it a troll pick unless there pick it out of malice. There is a case with a Soraka top. They picked it because they banned the Swain. Even though they went positive I consider it a troll because they basically griped the entire match about it. I.e. : "Bet you wish you didn't ban Swain now."
Malz was but one example of it. Admittedly most of them involve people going to support: Sion, Ornn, MF, Maokai, Nautilus way back when. Some jungle: Morgana, Zyra
Once again, yes, some are better in certain positions though. I feel, again, queue is important. I have taken Taric top and built him with an on hit build. Won lane vs a Riven and was able to 1v1 their adc. Would I do that in ranked? Not until comfortable with it so maybe after 10 more games. Have I used this theory before taken a champ somewhere? Yes Malphite Support.
Pick does not mean troll. Intent of pick does.
Wholelly disagreed. Intent is something you can infer from the pick. What matters is whether the chosen champion's kit has the necessary tools to do the job his position requires him to do. When you choose a champion who can't do the job, you have established intent to harm your team.
As a specific example, if you pick Malphite instead of a support, you put yourself in a position where you don't have the utility to stay relevant mid game and on, when playing with much less gold than everybody else and a significant portion of what you have is invested in your gold item. All you can do on a Malph nonsupport is look for opportunities to land ulti once it's up.
Imperial Pandaa1 votesIntent is not something you can simply infer from pick, aside from maybe "Disco Nunu". And who chooses what job a champion can or cannot do? You are telling me that Malphite can't successfully fulfill the role of support.
Passive gives a shield that scales off hp
Q inflicts a slow.
W passively boosts his armor and actively gives an aoe aa with bonus dmg.
E is an aoe that reduces attack speed of enemies hit. Which can make a difference with adc fights.
And the ult is an engage with a knockup that can set up the rest of the combo.
I have been successful vs traditional supports as it multiple times.
After reading one of your other replies, I think it is safe to say we aren't going to reach an agreement of any sort. I support off meta as not being troll unless the person specifically goes somewhere the lines of "Prepare to lose."
zoliking1 votes[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eYVXONML,comment-id=00020000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-10T01:42:00.614+0000)
Intent is not something you can simply infer from pick, aside from maybe "Disco Nunu". And who chooses what job a champion can or cannot do? You are telling me that Malphite can't successfully fulfill the role of support.
Passive gives a shield that scales off hp
Q inflicts a slow.
W passively boosts his armor and actively gives an aoe aa with bonus dmg.
E is an aoe that reduces attack speed of enemies hit. Which can make a difference with adc fights.
And the ult is an engage with a knockup that can set up the rest of the combo.
I have been successful vs traditional supports as it multiple times.
You go through that list and you still think Malphute is ok to pick instead of a support, you seem to have a problem with what a support needs to be able to do. The tiny slow on the Q is a redeeming quality, but it's just a short ranged poke that primarily does damage that depends on itemization. W has barely any utility, it certainly doesn't help to support any other champion in any way. E's cripple is somewhat useful, but it's melee ranged which limits its use in lane to barely anything. Ulti is a safe charge in, which is certainly good on a support, but it's an ulti with a relatively high cooldown and it's his only ability that makes sense on a support.
Being "successful multiple times" is very vague, but a few key things to observe here is that "multiple times" does not mean consistently, if you got 2 lane wins out of a 100 outings to bot lane with a Malph non-support you would still qualify for "successful multiple times". "Successful" is not a measure of viability, because whether you do well in lane or overall in the game is the function of a million different factors and pick viability is only one of them. And you having been "successful multiple times" is at best anecdotal evidence amounting to barely any support to the general idea that Malphite is ok to be picked instead of a support.
After reading one of your other replies, I think it is safe to say we aren't going to reach an agreement of any sort. I support off meta as not being troll unless the person specifically goes somewhere the lines of "Prepare to lose."
I'm certainly open to changing my mind if you make a compelling case, but what you have given me so far is about as convincing as if you said the sky is green because you vaguely remember percieving it green once when you were a child.
Ph03n1xb1rd2 votes"Pick trolling is assissting the other team." - This is not picked up by the automatic system, and picking off meta is not troll. "Spending half the time you are in the game on typing to your teammates prevents you from actually helping, assisting the other team, not to mention it provokes your teammates into doing the same." - Doesn't break any rules if you don't flame, or spam the same thing over and over. "Telling your teammates you are muting them, serves no other purpose than to be rude and dismissive." - It is actually an information for them, that you wont see what they write, so don't expect you buying an item or warding in a bush what they asked in chat.
You simply cant give any proper reason for the punishment.
zoliking1 votes"Pick trolling is assissting the other team." - This is not picked up by the automatic system, and picking off meta is not troll.
It's not picked up, which is a shame, because it absolutely is destructive and harmful.
"Spending half the time you are in the game on typing to your teammates prevents you from actually helping, assisting the other team, not to mention it provokes your teammates into doing the same." - Doesn't break any rules if you don't flame, or spam the same thing over and over.
Sure, most people can type and teamfight at the same time. There is no need to be concerned with teammates typing too much. My bad.
"Telling your teammates you are muting them, serves no other purpose than to be rude and dismissive." - It is actually an information for them, that you wont see what they write, so don't expect you buying an item or warding in a bush what they asked in chat.
I actually agree, this is Riot's nonsense.
You simply cant give any proper reason for the punishment.
Troll picking, typing instead of playing. Both are directly harmful to the team's chances to win. If you want to claim otherwise you have to explain how an unviable champion in a given role is just as good as a viable one, and explain how you can contribute to the team's victory while your keyboard controls drive the input box, not your abilities and your attention is on communicating non-strategic, non-tactical information.
Ph03n1xb1rd2 votesLook, in low ELO anything can happen. I once managed to beat a Nasus with Janna. Why take away the fun if he is confident? Obviously, if he FAILS miserably on that role, then it can be viewed as trolling, but if you are confident playing a strange champion on a given role, and you do okayish, that's not a problem.
WHO THE HELL SAID that he was typing in the middle of a teamfight!? He can type if he is dead, if he is running back to lane, if he is recalling. Obviously if he types INSTEAD of playing, that's trolling, BUT YOU CANT SEE it from chatlogs.
That's all, if this guy picks janna top and goes 0-6 in 10 min with 5 farm, then obviously ban him bc of troll. If he is behind with 5 farm and died 2 times to gank, then let him be. If he types in the middle of the teamfight ban him to hell, but if he writes the whole bible while recalling, who gives a fck?
zoliking1 votesLook, in low ELO anything can happen.
Right. It's each teammate's job to do what they can to make what happend favorable to the team.
I once managed to beat a Nasus with Janna.
So? That doesn't make Janna consistently viable as a top laner.
Why take away the fun if he is confident? Obviously, if he FAILS miserably on that role, then it can be viewed as trolling, but if you are confident playing a strange champion on a given role, and you do okayish, that's not a problem.
No, the outcome is completely irrelevant. If you pick an inappropriate tool to do your job that others rely on you to succeed the moment you pick it up you have done a condemnable action. Nothing that happens after that will vindicate it. The point is that if somebody troll picking, they are giving a huge advantage to the other side. Whether that advantage is used by the opponents or overcome by your team is entirely irrelevant the issue is giving it to them, not what came of that.
WHO THE HELL SAID that he was typing in the middle of a teamfight!? He can type if he is dead, if he is running back to lane, if he is recalling. Obviously if he types INSTEAD of playing, that's trolling, BUT YOU CANT SEE it from chatlogs.
If all that came from those things than he did an awful lot of dying and transitioning. Getting from fountain to lane generally gives me time to type in 1 sentence if don't accidentally make a typing error and have to go back to change it. If somebody types a lot faster, then let's say 1.5 sentences. These logs go on for pages.
That's all, if this guy picks janna top and goes 0-6 in 10 min with 5 farm, then obviously ban him bc of troll. If he is behind with 5 farm and died 2 times to gank, then let him be. If he types in the middle of the teamfight ban him to hell, but if he writes the whole bible while recalling, who gives a fck?
As I said pick trolling cannot be justified by eventual results, but sure, if he somehow found the time to type all that without compromising his play, I'll give you that.
Ph03n1xb1rd1 votes"No, the outcome is completely irrelevant. If you pick an inappropriate tool to do your job that others rely on you to succeed the moment you pick it up you have done a condemnable action. Nothing that happens after that will vindicate it. The point is that if somebody troll picking, they are giving a huge advantage to the other side. Whether that advantage is used by the opponents or overcome by your team is entirely irrelevant the issue is giving it to them, not what came of that." - If I am a Janna god, and consistently play well, then IT IS A GOOD PICK, you cant force OTPs to pick a "generally more optimal" champion, bc that's accepted by the community. If he usually plays Janna top, then he will perform with Janna better than with a Riven. In this case picking Riven would be the trollpick, since you cant use it. You cant tell that somebody trolls, just because he picked an unusual champ and later managed to carry the game. So the outcome is all what matters (your contribution to the outcome, you can troll and get carried, that doesn't count.)
Rester8 votesIt isn't the ban system that went too far, it's you that went too far.
You incite a lot of drama, lay off that enter key and just play the game next time, mute them as well.
Totally Not Jinx6 votesYou're a bully to your teammates.
Calling them children, picking on them when they're upset, threatening to report them, stating you're muting and then failing to do so, using the pet name 'honey' to infantilise either a teammate or an opponent because they're calling out your nonsense...I could go on.
Listen, I don't really think, based on your responses in this thread, that you actually care about whether or not your behaviour was punishable. The fact of the matter is, it was. You provoked your team into tilt and revelled in it based on these chat logs, and that isn't sportsmanlike at all.
BritneyFear1 votes[{quoted}](name=Totally Not Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eYVXONML,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-02-08T14:43:32.203+0000)
You're a bully to your teammates.
Calling them children, picking on them when they're upset, threatening to report them, stating you're muting and then failing to do so, using the pet name 'honey' to infantilise either a teammate or an opponent because they're calling out your nonsense...I could go on.
Listen, I don't really think, based on your responses in this thread, that you actually care about whether or not your behaviour was punishable. The fact of the matter is, it was. You provoked your team into tilt and revelled in it based on these chat logs, and that isn't sportsmanlike at all.
Thanks for your insight.
I can understand why you would think i was the bully.
But that's not the case.
I tend to be reactive towards the bullying, giving the first lick is not my forte nor my interest.
Here is a little backstory about my gameplay and why I frequently get bullied a lot.
I do have a preference in playing certain support champions in top/mid lane sometimes. And most of the times I get ridiculed and actually get threats of reports.
You say I was threatening when that's not even on or near the level of what someone threatening to report you really is.
"If you go as Janna top Im reporting you"
"She went Janna top, you know shes intenting"
"#@$@#ing Troll report her please, ill also report your .... if you report"
Nevertheless I do my best and when I do well some players reform and acknowledge my skills.
Some are still resistant and continue to repeat the same behavior post game. (At that point I'm already sending in a report and moving on to the next game)
If I do have a terrible game. The bullying will increase towards me 10x fold because I am a support champion at top or mid lane.
Because Im playing Janna top or Soraka or whoever, does that make me a person who is provoking others to start drama by champ select?
Or is it truly a honey player that has their own tastes and preference in a gameplay?
That is exactly why I created this thread. How far must we go on this penalty system based on assumptions of the players intent?
I do miss the old system where everything was investigated properly and determined by not just only what the player was saying, but the whole picture.
Continue on with your points. Please. I am quite interested to hear from a lot of sides.
Totally Not Jinx4 votesHere's the thing. It's really not important based on your chat alone whether or not someone started it. Your behaviour, towards other players, was rude and contributed to a negative environment for your entire team. Is it rude of them to nitpick your top lane choices? Sure. Are they being jerks for continuing to call it out and being toxic to you? Absolutely.
However, your responses to them are also contributing to the negativity. The fact that you did not mute them, as you said you would, and continued to backtalk them, further escalated the negativity in this one chat, alone. I don't know what other chats would be like.
Intent, while not 100% easy to interpret, is still discernible. Sending in reports is good, but it's incredibly important to not feed into the negativity otherwise you're just as culpable.
Jo0o4 votesWhat is the penalty being issued here? You're on a new account, it seems, so I assume this isn't a perma?
The abuse of the chat system it seems you're being penalized for is that you're constantly provoking drama, wielding report threats as a weapon against your own team, passive-aggressively insulting your teammates, and occasionally just directly insulting them.
League rules aren't about bad words. Using hateful slurs is a great way to get an escalated punishment, sure, but that's not all that the behavioral system cares about. When your use of chat consistently lessens the enjoyment that others can take from the game, and consistently distracts your team from playing the game, your chat privileges get restricted. If you refuse to change how you communicate after that restriction, you'll get a longer restriction, then a 14-day ban, then a permanent ban.
Assuming you haven't reached the permanent ban stage yet, the lessons you should learn from this are:
BritneyFear1 votesWhat is the penalty being issued here? You're on a new account, it seems, so I assume this isn't a perma?
The abuse of the chat system it seems you're being penalized for is that you're constantly provoking drama, wielding report threats as a weapon against your own team, passive-aggressively insulting your teammates, and occasionally just directly insulting them.
League rules aren't about bad words. Using hateful slurs is a great way to get an escalated punishment, sure, but that's not all that the behavioral system cares about. When your use of chat consistently lessens the enjoyment that others can take from the game, and consistently distracts your team from playing the game, your chat privileges get restricted. If you refuse to change how you communicate after that restriction, you'll get a longer restriction, then a 14-day ban, then a permanent ban.
Assuming you haven't reached the permanent ban stage yet, the lessons you should learn from this are:
- Stop trying to "win" arguments in the middle of a League match.
- Stop passive-aggressively or directly playing the blame game.
- Stop calling people "child" or the equivalent.
- Stop threatening people with reports. If somebody deserves a report, just do it, no need to monologue about it.
- When somebody deserves to be muted, just mute them. No need to state that you're muting them, which is a passive-aggressive provocation, and then continue to complain or argue with or without the person you're muting.
- In general, if you need this many pages to share your chat logs, you're typing too much. There's just no need for all that talk. Your use of the chat system should be for strategy and encouragement, nothing else.
Thank you for taking the time to write that out. Here is my thoughts on the matter.
As I can understand Context is very important. What you see here is all you see. I can see why you would think I'm the one provoking the drama when the drama is actually already existed. Not once in any of my games do I initiate a drama, and rather the choice of using the word "child" is a safe appropriate reaction towards the aggressor.
You also have quite the double standard when it comes to "Passive aggression. Please re-read how you presented point #6. While I don't mind nor see it as a _big deal _(<===Key Word), it contradicts on the same level as what you were preaching to me in how to treat a person.
The chat is also not being in constant use. These are 40minute games. And those responses arent happening at every single event. (Death of a Summoner, kills, successes/fails of an objective)
Regardless, me using the chat more than you would is not a ban worthy notion either. And this is hearsay since the timestamps are not present, but I'm truthfully putting it out there that isn't spam either. (Which would be ban worthy)
I do not see where I have been "Wielding report threats as a weapon". A threat would be "Do this or I will report you". Simply stating you are going to report someone is not a threat and neither is that a ban worthy notion.
Lastly simply stating I'm muting someone or even reporting should no where be considered an action to be penalized.
ModPeriscope2 votesIt really doesn't matter who starts toxicity in the game, as it only takes 1 to stop the toxicity. The length of your logs alone shows that you continued and never thought to stop.
BritneyFear1 votesCould you not say the same to the one who is actually harassing me?
Why didn't they stop despite they can obviously tell I would not falter to the level of toxicity they wanted me to be?
Why must I be punished on the same level as them when my behavior was no way near or even atrocious at all? [zombie-brand-clap]
ModPeriscope2 votesYep. You're right on that. Both players could have ended this conversation at either point. Both should be punished, since you're still subjecting 3 teammates to an unnecessary argument.
Others' actions really shouldn't concern you when it comes to chat. You are responsible for your chat, which is why my criticism is directed at you (edit: as it would be in any case).
BritneyFear1 votesSo your point is I don't have the right to defend myself in a chat 
, even if what I said was appropriate. Heck even how I said it wasn't even close to being severe.
I still don't see how this is ban worthy.
Jo0o1 votesWhat you said wasn't appropriate, and doesn't need to be severe. It was disruptive.
Come on, we've got a long and drawn out exchange above between you and I. Are you still not seeing what the issue is here? I mean, it's your third time getting punished by Riot for the same stuff, right?
BritneyFear1 votesQuite the double standard. Picking Janna top seems to be disruptive but I don't get banned for that. Hopefully.
Let me put this into real life perspective then.
You are basically telling me I should go to jail for saying "Child" to someone on a daily basis. xD
Jo0o1 votesWhat the fuck, dude.
I'm giving you as clear an explanation as I am capable of. Please show me the courtesy of not putting words in my mouth.
You're not going to "win" this argument, because there's no argument to win. You've pushed your account to the brink of a permanent suspension, and we've all told you precisely the issues with your behavior that has taken you this far. This isn't based on our personal opinions, but rather our understanding of Riot's policies. You don't get to out-argue us, return to the game in two weeks, and get back to good standing with your account. If you do not figure out a way to play well with others, you will be banned. We don't want that, but you're making it damn near impossible to help you.
BritneyFear1 votesThere are no winners or losers in this thread.
It seems you are confusing my metaphors/abstract examples as putting words in your mouth.
Honestly everything im saying on this thread could be considered provoking.
Oh gee just like saying "Child". Or "HOney" or "Muted" or "Dear" or "My Dear". . . .
If this is how a lot of people think in terms of what is appropriate and what is not, I think this paradigm of whats supposed to be a healthy community has gone too far.
So far yall have been giving me every excuse in the book for something that really isn't a big deal and you know it. lol
When will we become a community that looks at the bigger picture again?
You know the whole forest not just the individual trees.
Jo0o1 votesI understand you weren't suggesting that I literally said that, but your assumptions of what I mean are so far removed from my actual intent that I have no idea how to productively react to them. I actually pride myself in my ability to communicate efficiently and to make myself understood, so for you to have so thoroughly missed the point of what I'm saying is discouraging at best.
BritneyFear1 votesI understand you weren't suggesting that I literally said that, but your assumptions of what I mean are so far removed from my actual intent that I have no idea how to productively react to them. I actually pride myself in my ability to communicate efficiently and to make myself understood, so for you to have so thoroughly missed the point of what I'm saying is discouraging at best.
It seems I overestimated your assumption skills then. Considering how many times you've been assuming things I would of thought you would get what I was saying. xD
Jo0o1 votesSorry, I'm out. This has gone on for hours, and you've made no attempt to understand my perspective.
Change or be banned. Up to you.
BritneyFear1 votesI've made plenty and I still have the patience to try to understand your points. If you change your mind, you're free to come back. [slayer-jinx-catface]
Although since you mentioned you believe I should "change" or be banned. . . .
Let's be real. This game would be a lot happier and less toxic if players chatted more civil and appropriate like I do than the average toxic player on the game.
Banning me is never gonna solve the issue, especially since every appropriate thing I said is nothing but a reaction to the truly inappropriate and toxic behavior.
Are we banning players because of what is right and wrong or are we just banning players on a whim because we don't like what they are doing? There's a prime difference between the two.
Jo0o1 votesMaybe you have, but your efforts are more angled towards arguing against me, or disproving my points, and challenging me at every turn. This echoes the behavior that's been getting you in trouble in-game: From my first or second response in this thread, you could have just said "This is an interesting perspective, I'll have to consider it". Instead, we've got a massive cyclical discussion going on, and I'm utterly unconvinced that you've made any changes to how you're going to conduct yourself when your ban expires.
The last couple times I've been caught in a discussion this long without resolution on the subject of WHY somebody got banned, they've shown back up a month later like clockwork to complain about their perma. You've been much more polite than the people I'm thinking of, but I'm still concerned that you're keeping this discussion going more out of an interest in arguing than in an actual attempt to understand how to avoid the perma.
But please do prove me wrong. As much as I did take some pleasure in shoving "I told you so" down the throats of some other posters around here, I'd rather you not get banned for this sort of stuff.
BritneyFear1 votesMaybe you have, but your efforts are more angled towards arguing against me, or disproving my points, and challenging me at every turn. This echoes the behavior that's been getting you in trouble in-game: From my first or second response in this thread, you could have just said "This is an interesting perspective, I'll have to consider it". Instead, we've got a massive cyclical discussion going on, and I'm utterly unconvinced that you've made any changes to how you're going to conduct yourself when your ban expires.
The last couple times I've been caught in a discussion this long without resolution on the subject of WHY somebody got banned, they've shown back up a month later like clockwork to complain about their perma. You've been much more polite than the people I'm thinking of, but I'm still concerned that you're keeping this discussion going more out of an interest in arguing than in an actual attempt to understand how to avoid the perma.
But please do prove me wrong. As much as I did take some pleasure in shoving "I told you so" down the throats of some other posters around here, I'd rather you not get banned for this sort of stuff.
Huh...? When and where did I say I was doing this just to be against you against all reason?
Now that you've made this assumption you think I qualify for a ban on the forums now or some kind of penalty?
This is the point I've been trying to get across to youuuu xD
We shouldn't be banning players based on assumptions.
Also even if I WAS arguing with you just to argue, aint nothing in what I said was going too far let alone stepping the line.
Nick Morrison1 votesDear Britney You're clearly making an argument in the form of a question. Has riot gone too far? I honestly don't think so.
You argue that you're being flamed for off meta lane/champ choices, the other that you're being banned for "defending yourself." The summoners code is very clear on champ select.
"Being a good team player begins at champion select. Be open minded when considering the needs of your team. If you're the last one to pick, try to fill a niche in your team that hasn't already been filled. If everyone's picked and something stands out as a deficiency in your team composition, try asking for another player to fill the gap, or change roles to embrace that responsibility yourself. Remember, that by taking on a role you don't normally play, you'll learn more about unfamiliar champions and increase your own skill level."
So by insisting on playing Janna top, as has been clearly explained, you're NOT following the summoner's code. Riot is expanding runes/items to try to make more champs viable in more roles but if you're playing a champ with weak ap scaling mid, then you're blatantly making a decision to not fill a deficiency in team composition. Janna is extremely squishy. You WILL die every time you are ganked when you push to tower. Your text log and forum posts make no effort to explain why you believe Janna is a good choice for top lane, and the text log you posted where you mock the other team for exhausting a janna is a strong indication you're aware the choice to play Janna top is poor.
You say they started flaming, but you made a decision that reduced their odds of winning the game, and it seems you refused to justify it. You claim you're "defending yourself" from flamers, but YOU started this fight when you decided to play Janna top. You aren't just "defending yourself."
LOL is a fast paced game with little time for typing. Important stuff shows up in that text box sometimes. By filling it with your words, I don't get to see stuff like "watch out mf zed coming bot" because the box is full of you talking trash to your teammates.
Be prepared to explain your choices, politely and succinctly, if they're uncommon. I favor a doran's ring on MF, and I have to expalin constantly that she's an AD caster who uses huge amounts of mana and regenerates it very slowly.
You seem upset about is that the LOL community has declared your behavior in game inappropriate. Players of the game, not riot, decide whether you get banned. The people who chose to ban you felt you were ruining other people's games, and they'd rather not play with people who behave like you do.
If you don't want a perma ban, change your behavior. It doesn't matter how well you argue on the forum that you were behaving fine, if you continue this you will lose your account.
TL;DR: you WERE banned for being annoying. The people who reported you felt you ruined their experience, and the people who voted to ban you agreed. Are you seriously confused about why, or are you just trying to make an argument that the ban system needs some work?
BritneyFear1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nick Morrison,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eYVXONML,comment-id=00050000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2018-02-09T01:51:01.400+0000)
Snip
TLDR Version: You believe players should be banned for being annoying.
Yes Nick, your way of thinking is going too far.
[zombie-brand-facepalm]
ModPeriscope1 votesConsidering how many times you've been assuming things I would of thought you would get what I was saying. xD
This is exactly the kind of stuff in your logs that contributed to your punishment.
ModPeriscope2 votesYou might call it defending yourself, but frankly, why? 90% of the time, if someone's going to harass and insult you, they're already set in their way and won't change their mind. I've rarely seen arguments turn out positively for toxic players.
And I looked at your logs. No, they aren't severe, but they do show a pattern of negative chat that frequently involves arguing with teammates and insulting others. Every time you were "defending yourself" you were arguing further.
I don't consider solo-lane Janna to be a troll pick, but it seems like you used that pick to incite arguments.
If this is your regular chat, I can't say I'd be happy to be teammates with you. Next time, just mute, report, and move on.
Edit: It isn't about whether this is banworthy, but punishment worthy. And it is. And if it followed a chat restriction, then this was the next step.
Colgate Gator3 votesYou know there's an issue when your chat logs have to be distributed among 7 screenshots.
That being said, I saw nothing too egregious, so my take is that you spend too much time chatting and being lowkey aggressive to people (also there was more than one instance where you had to say you weren't inting). This seems more like a case that you being passive-agressive plus being overly chatty in many games and it has been escalating.
You focus too much in winning your arguments and you will bully other people, and it's important to note that chat logs only show a max of 3 games or so, and I'm willing to bet this is a common occurrence in your games.
There's no sugarcoating this subject, you have exactly one more chance, as the only escalation for your account is a perma, and while I generally don't believe in /mute all, in your case, who loves to "win arguments", it might be your best shot.
