Stop Suicide Suggestions. Please. It is NOT okay.

Carettax2·Dec 19, 2016·187 votes·7,300 views

I have encountered many users who throw phrases like "go kill yourself," or "you should think about suicide," etc. and this is NOT okay. Stop thinking that people should just ignore such harsh comments because its "just someone online." While it may not truly affect 99.99% of the population you say it to, there is that 0.01%. That 0.01% who will seriously take it into consideration. And don't you dare call them weak, because they are 100% strong in the ways that they try their hardest to brace through the difficult realities of their daily lives. It may be just that one person whom you have just killed without even thinking about your actions. Can you really live with that? Can you live with knowing that you have just unintentionally harmed someone? If you happened to say yes to this question, you need to seriously rethink your morals.

Suicide should never be taken lightly, and it makes me furious that people would even say things like this. So please stop. Stop giving people harmful suggestions and comments. I'm begging all of you. Think about what you want to say before you say it. It's not possible for you to accidentally say something, because you know what?? You have to click that enter button one more time before it goes public. Take that one extra millisecond to consider the possible consequences.

To everyone else, look out for these harsh comments and relay an important message to them saying it is not okay.

265 Comments

Tyrone LannisterDec 19, 201630 votes

I swear the only people who say this shit are 12 year olds who dont have the mental capacity to understand what their words mean. It saddens me every time i see it.

BlâckLotusDec 19, 20165 votes

i am 19 years old and i got banned for 14 days for toxicity in september.

CandoodleDec 19, 201619 votes

I have met 40 year olds that still act 12. I guess your brain has just already peaked

Prophet of DecayDec 19, 201619 votes

The first 40 years of puberty are always the hardest.

AthinaDec 19, 201617 votes

How anyone can bring themselves to use language like this absolutely baffles me. Why is it that someone would wish physical harm upon someone just because they didn't like how they played in a video game? It's disgusting. Personally, it hardly bothers me, but I know that others are different. I have seen many people come here for guidance because the things that were said to them had them distraught and sometimes on the edge of a breakdown. Helping these people is something that I have been plenty willing to do, but it isn't something that should have to be done.

I wish there was a way to better prevent this kind of behavior. Sure, the current system does a decent job of punishing people that use hate speech or death threats quickly, but nothing is being done about it in the moment outside of being muted by the player.

Here are my first thoughts on the matter: It would be nice to see a simple filter that looks for these low-tolerance words, abbreviations or phrases. These messages would not be sent to other players, but to the sender nothing would look different to them. If this filter is used, the player is automatically flagged for review, since others would not see messages that would prompt them to report. I know it isn't perfect, and could probably be worked around, but it's better than nothing.

onlydreamsnowDec 19, 20164 votes

{quoted}

How anyone can bring themselves to use language like this absolutely baffles me. Why is it that someone would wish physical harm upon someone just because they didn't like how they played in a video game? It's disgusting. Personally, it hardly bothers me, but I know that others are different. I have seen many people come here for guidance because the things that were said to them had them distraught and sometimes on the edge of a breakdown. Helping these people is something that I have been plenty willing to do, but it isn't something that should have to be done.

I wish there was a way to better prevent this kind of behavior. Sure, the current system does a decent job of punishing people that use hate speech or death threats quickly, but nothing is being done about it in the moment outside of being muted by the player.

Here are my first thoughts on the matter: It would be nice to see a simple filter that looks for these low-tolerance words, abbreviations or phrases. These messages would not be sent to other players, but to the sender nothing would look different to them. If this filter is used, the player is automatically flagged for review, since others would not see messages that would prompt them to report. I know it isn't perfect, and could probably be worked around, but it's better than nothing.

They should use "teemo" as the filter, PLEASE!!

eufleuriaDec 19, 201613 votes

Its funny when people back up the phrase and tell people to grow a thicker skin because theyre basically supporting such a thing such as self harm and the like. Although, fortunately - it is bannable offense; it doesnt change the fact there are sick people in this world who are careless with their words and think with their ass. Hate how they think it wont affect anyone, but guess what guy, hope youre ~~happy~~ being that person who ruins someone elses day/life.

Tyler1CloneDec 19, 20167 votes

As someone who was bullied and told to kill myelf most of my life I dont understand online harassment what so ever or at all. My god you can just mute them with relative ease. Most of them just want to get something out of you. If someone bullies you and trolls you its a bad idea to talk back cause thats what they want. Some also enjoy you complaining. Finally I get it some people do get offended by stuff online and take it seriously but come on

AnomanderDec 19, 201611 votes

Good thing people who use this type of phrases get banned for it.

AninLegions777Dec 19, 20167 votes

hahahaha.........hahaha.hahah.hah.......ha!

You're joking right?

KüramaDec 19, 20163 votes

I don't think he was, he was telling the truth after all.

AninLegions777Dec 19, 20163 votes

Nope

KüramaDec 19, 20164 votes

Hmm. Did you conduct a polygraph with him or a lie detector test of some sort?

ShaolinToiletDec 19, 20164 votes

People don't get banned for saying kys

AnomanderDec 19, 20164 votes

Keep telling yourself that..........

AninLegions777Dec 19, 20164 votes

Oh how naive you are. There are tons of ways to say it without triggering anything. "Ky$" "Killys" "Kyourself" "off yourself" "go end your lyfe" "K yourself tonight" There are so so so so many. You're naive to think people get banned for that.

PaladinNODec 19, 20166 votes

That's why you add the description in the report box, to make the system understand what exactly happened.

That said, it once happened to me, and I reported it with a short description and sent in a support ticket about it too. Support didn't seem to care much...

AninLegions777Dec 19, 20164 votes

Alright let me tell you this. I started playing since season 2 ending. Since that time I used the description like 200 ish times and not once did anything happen (can't tell for sure). Stopped using after I found out that the whole system was automated. Let's be honest. What company would hire staff just to read "He dun tek to tema bt he lik to fed enemi" all day? It's a waste of resources.

PaladinNODec 19, 20165 votes

Declined, a Wrenchman on EUNE, assured me that using the description box would help. Adding a description including certain words would/could (dependng on severity) trigger a manual review of the case.

If no description is added, it will be handled automatically.

However, what worries me is that once I dug deeper for information/details/specifics, he quickly shut down and went all "I can't talk about that". Which told me rather plenty on its own.

So yeah, while I do add a description (if I can't explain the problem in a sentence, it's not that big of an issue), I do have a strong feeling of the whole system being rather rotten throughout.

If saying "kys" (kill yourself) doesn't warrant an instant suspension of some sort, then the system is not acceptable.

Mr NoggenfoggerDec 19, 20163 votes

Getting banned just for saying that is not acceptable, because of how it can be taken out of context. "Im suicidal" "don't kill yourself"

PaladinNODec 19, 20164 votes

Enough to trigger a manual review I'd say then. Unless saying "i'm glad we won against a diamond player" [sic], despite the verified recognition of skill already there, is considered sufficiently offensive on its own to warrant such a response.

KüramaDec 19, 20163 votes

Are you sure?

DrahcirDec 19, 20162 votes

from what i've seen, it takes time to get banned, so somebody could go on for some time.

vOmvbrawfUDec 19, 20164 votes

I don't think I've ever been told to kill myself on this game. What are you people doing that you're having such an issue with this?

RedWeddingDec 19, 20168 votes

Honestly, I mostly get it after saying "Hello everyone!" in pre-game lobby and "Good Luck and Have Fun!" when the game first starts.

Doesn't make sense to me, either.

Dominick DestineDec 19, 20163 votes

The draconian system does it's best to regulate behavior for special snowflakes like OP.

I would once again ask Riot to change their stance on this, a draconian system is never good, the only purpose of it is to prevent natural interaction between players in favor of ultra regulated leftist/feminist policy (aka the draconian system). Don't do this, allow people to have the liberty to speak, allow people the liberty to interact as they choose. There is a mute button for a reason.

ModUlanopoDec 19, 201615 votes

Don't do this, allow people to have the liberty to speak, allow people the liberty to interact as they choose.

You haven't lost any of your ability to say whatever you please. What you are demanding is the privilege of doing so without consequence and it isn't "leftist/feminist policy" to remind you that you're not a special little snowflake entitled to that expectation. The only thing "draconian" here is your belief that you're the only one whose opinions have value.

http://imgur.com/1rpHt1k

Dominick DestineDec 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You haven't lost any of your ability to say whatever you please. What you are demanding is the privilege of doing so without consequence and it isn't "leftist/feminist policy" to remind you that you're not a special little snowflake entitled to that expectation. The only thing "draconian" here is your belief that you're the only one whose opinions have value.

Ah finally, an actual argument presented.... which will now be ripped to pieces by superior logic, hajimeruzo ;

You haven't lost any of your ability to say whatever you please. What you are demanding is the privilege of doing so without consequence

Please quote where I said "I want the privilege of saying whatever I please without consequence". You are projecting and thus, presenting a strawman argument.

No, I have no interest in whatever leftist/feminist like you consider to be the ideal enemy, my interest is only to oppose the draconian system. You see there already is a consequence for making unpopular statements, it's called the IGNORE button. Social interactions must come with social consequences, not with a draconian system to regulate behavior.

These two concepts are diametrically opposed no matter how much supporters of the draconian system, like you, insist otherwise.

to remind you that you're not a special little snowflake entitled to that expectation.

The irony is off the charts.

The people that consider themselves special snowflakes are invariably your type (Leftist/feminist). People like me , libertarian/supporters of right wing philosophy, do not consider themselves special snowflakes but rather, consider themselves as a single unit, an individual which must be treated fair and justly by authority, not special, not important.... not wanting to be treated with kid gloves or ripped apart by the draconian system.... just and equitable treatment is what is being requested but is not what is being doled out.

The only thing "draconian" here is your belief that you're the only one whose opinions have value.

Once again, lovely strawman argument.

If I were blocking out everyone else's arguments, I would not address them to begin with. In fact I relish being presented with opposing arguments because ripping them to pieces always bolsters my position. They help me to prove my point. Now there are the rare occasions when I am defeated (Ex: Ariel the Cruel, a member of these boards defeated me twice, grrr) but those occasions are very rare. Aside from those two times, I am never wrong.

I am never wrong because I never take a position that I do not absolutely know for a fact is not correct. That is how facts, logic and reason work, you don't "Take a side" , that's childish nonsense.... you view the data and come to a conclusion based on empirical evidence... and based on currently existing information, the draconian system is wrong.

Within the system itself, I implore Riot to reconsider their draconian system and make it reasonable like it once was, back in S1-S2.... prior to the draconian nature of the system was implemented. I will not violate the rules, but I will ask for the rules to be made reasonable, that is not wrong.

Everything can at all times be stated, for it will always be understood by those who are able to understand. - Eliphas Levi

VexingRavenDec 19, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eU5GrQcl,comment-id=002600010000,timestamp=2016-12-19T19:48:02.172+0000)

Ah finally, an actual argument presented.... which will now be ripped to pieces by superior logic, hajimeruzo ;

Please quote where I said "I want the privilege of saying whatever I please without consequence". You are projecting and thus, presenting a strawman argument.

No, I have no interest in whatever leftist/feminist like you consider to be the ideal enemy, my interest is only to oppose the draconian system. You see there already is a consequence for making unpopular statements, it's called the IGNORE button. Social interactions must come with social consequences, not with a draconian system to regulate behavior.

He never asked for Riot to punish people, he asked the players to stop saying it and to condemn people who do. I'm pretty sure that's the definition of social consequence and has literally nothing to do with draconian leftism. The only person injecting words here is you.

Dominick DestineDec 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He never asked for Riot to punish people

The entire point of my argument from the very beginning was to oppose the draconian system, asking Riot to reform or even remove it. You cannot backpedal in his name and pretend like that was never the issue.

The draconian system IS Riot punishing people.

he asked the players to stop saying it and to condemn people who do.

If that were all, then I simply would not care, no one would.

And that's the way it should be; YOU should not have the power to regulate the behavior of others when you can mute with a click. The draconian system is wrong and Riot should change it or remove it entirely.

VexingRavenDec 19, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eU5GrQcl,comment-id=00260001000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-19T20:03:50.024+0000)

The entire point of my argument from the very beginning was to oppose the draconian system, asking Riot to reform or even remove it. You cannot backpedal in his name and pretend like that was never the issue.

The draconian system IS Riot punishing people.

If that were all, then I simply would not care, no one would.

And that's the way it should be; YOU should not have the power to regulate the behavior of others when you can mute with a click. The draconian system is wrong and Riot should change it or remove it entirely.

So you're just ranting about an unrelated issue? I genuinely do not understand what relation a perceived "draconian system" of Riot punishing people has with asking people to not be awful human beings.

Also, did you ever play when Tribunal was around? The game is WAY more forgiving now than in the tribunal days. The tribunal was slow, but you could get banned extremely easily if you made it in.

Dominick DestineDec 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So you're just ranting

I never "rant", your accusation is unfounded.

Also, did you ever play when Tribunal was around? The game is WAY more forgiving now than in the tribunal days.

I have heard that claim before, even by a Rioter, but I played during that time period (obviously/self-evident) and people that were suspended or banned were only done so if their behavior was extreme.

I have seen permabans for what would never have even reached the tribunal since the implementation of the draconian system.

VexingRavenDec 19, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eU5GrQcl,comment-id=0026000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-19T22:51:54.648+0000) I have seen permabans for what would never have even reached the tribunal since the implementation of the draconian system.

I have a permaban and about 6 2-weeks bans on various accounts from when the tribunal was around, just from complaining about the enemy team being too strong. I haven't gotten so much as a mute in over a year. That said, my anecdotal evidence carries exactly the same weight as yours: None at all.

That said, none of this has anything at all to do with the OP. Go start a new topic. Then post the link here, I want to see you ~~get shot down~~ destroy everybody with your infallible debate skills.

Dominick DestineDec 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I have a permaban and about 6 2-weeks bans on various accounts from when the tribunal was around, just from complaining about the enemy team being too strong.

If you're going to lie, at least make your lies believable.

I was constantly in the tribunal and know for a fact you are exaggerating to a spectacular degree.

ModUlanopoDec 20, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eU5GrQcl,comment-id=002600010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-19T23:43:02.055+0000)

I was constantly in the tribunal and know for a fact you are exaggerating to a spectacular degree.

Not true. Lyte mentioned on several occasions that it was not uncommon for some toxic players to go through as many as 14 punishments before they permabanned the account. That's why the "punishment volcano" gave way to the 4-step plan we have now.

Edit: the person you replied to also mentioned that this was across multiple accounts, so there's that.

Dominick DestineDec 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not true. Lyte mentioned on several occasions that it was not uncommon for some toxic players to go through as many as 14 punishments before they permabanned the account. That's why the "punishment volcano" gave way to the 4-step plan we have now. the person you replied to also mentioned that this was across multiple accounts, so there's that.

And that's a lovely red herring you have.

Be so kind as to read my post again and see that you missed the point.

ModUlanopoDec 20, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eU5GrQcl,comment-id=00260001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-20T04:45:51.044+0000)

And that's a lovely red herring you have.

Be so kind as to read my post again and see that you missed the point.

I'm curious as to what point you think you made.

ModUlanopoDec 19, 201620 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eU5GrQcl,comment-id=002600010000,timestamp=2016-12-19T19:48:02.172+0000)

Ah finally, an actual argument presented.... which will now be ripped to pieces by superior logic, hajimeruzo ;

I see humility is not your strong suit.

Please quote where I said "I want the privilege of saying whatever I please without consequence". You are projecting and thus, presenting a strawman argument.

Incorrect. Your desire for privilege is a natural outcome of your request for Riot to dismantle the verbal toxicity system, just as saying "we should do away with the tax code" is also a statement of "I don't want to pay any taxes."

No, I have no interest in whatever leftist/feminist like you consider to be the ideal enemy, my interest is only to oppose the draconian system.

That sentence has no semantic content other than an ad hominem. You don't know my political leanings, but you attempt to reduce them to a caricature. Perhaps a class in formal debate is in order? I'm old enough that it was a requirement in my high school.

You see there already is a consequence for making unpopular statements, it's called the IGNORE button. Social interactions must come with social consequences, not with a draconian system to regulate behavior.

You contradict yourself. The MUTE button is not a social consequence. It is a defense. Possessing a defense does not make it okay to attack someone, so your argument fails on moral grounds.

The social consequence in League is shunning and exile, which cultures have employed for centuries. So, on the one hand, you demand a social consequence without understanding what one is and, on the other, you condemn the system for having a social consequence.

These two concepts are diametrically opposed no matter how much supporters of the draconian system, like you, insist otherwise.

Only when you have no clue what you're talking about.

The irony is off the charts.

Irony.

The people that consider themselves special snowflakes are invariably your type (Leftist/feminist). People like me , libertarian/supporters of right wing philosophy, do not consider themselves special snowflakes but rather, consider themselves as a single unit, an individual which must be treated fair and justly by authority, not special, not important.... not wanting to be treated with kid gloves or ripped apart by the draconian system.... just and equitable treatment is what is being requested but is not what is being doled out.

You have never been in a truly libertarian setting in your entire life. Pray that remains true.

The thing I find so amusing about the Randian dogmatists is how utterly full of shit they are. You have never spent a single day of your life not benefiting from the public good. If, suddenly, you found yourself in that perfect libertarian paradise, you would be someone else's property in no time at all because that's what libertarianism means: the strong get everything and the weak get nothing.

Once again, lovely strawman argument.

You should probably avoid using words you so clearly don't understand. You don't value opposing opinions.

If I were blocking out everyone else's arguments, I would not address them to begin with. In fact I relish being presented with opposing arguments because ripping them to pieces always bolsters my position. They help me to prove my point. Now there are the rare occasions when I am defeated (Ex: Ariel the Cruel, a member of these boards defeated me twice, grrr) but those occasions are very rare. Aside from those two times, I am never wrong.

You keep telling yourself that.

http://imgur.com/tP9Da7m

I am never wrong because I never take a position that I do not absolutely know for a fact is not correct. That is how facts, logic and reason work, you don't "Take a side" , that's childish nonsense.... you view the data and come to a conclusion based on empirical evidence... and based on currently existing information, the draconian system is wrong.

The arrogance here is astounding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Within the system itself, I implore Riot to reconsider their draconian system and make it reasonable like it once was, back in S1-S2.... prior to the draconian nature of the system was implemented. I will not violate the rules, but I will ask for the rules to be made reasonable, that is not wrong.

Good luck with that.

Dominick DestineDec 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I see humility is not your strong suit.

The irony of the above quoted is that I'm a very humble person.

But this is a place of debate, so I will speak with incision, intelligence and skill which masks my actual personality which is very jovial, very humble and very friendly.... you should ask the few people that have played matches with me what kind of person I am, you will be surprised by the responses. I kind of wish they'd chime up and point out how wrong you are but I would not ask anyone to do that against their will.

My arguments will always stand on their own merit.

Incorrect. Your desire for privilege

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yes, because being against the draconian system = privilege. That is a very good joke.

That sentence has no semantic content other than an ad hominem.

Identifying leftist/feminist dogma is not wrong, nor is it an ad hominem.

You don't know my political leanings

Nonsense.

You support the draconian system and even make baseless claims on the basis of "privilege" and emotional appeals. These are the core of leftism/feminism.

The MUTE button is not a social consequence.

That's exactly what it is.

The social consequence in League is shunning and exile

That is not a "social consequence" that is the draconian system at play.

Authority regulating behavior and punishing those that do not tow the party line is not a "social consequence", do you see why you are easily identified as a leftist/feminist? a libertarian/supporter of right wing philosophy would NEVER advocate for an authoritarian system to regulate human behavior via dogmatic imposition. That simply would not occur.

You have never been in a truly libertarian setting in your entire life.

When I was young and foolish, I too was a leftist/feminist, then when my wisdom and experience caught up with my extremely high intelligence, I came to realize that all leftism/feminism was incredibly wrong ... I felt ashamed for ever having supported such nonsensical, low intelligence dogma. Now that I know better, I oppose such nonsense.

Beyond the obvious 'The draconian system is bad' ; This is why I oppose the draconian system.

You have never spent a single day of your life not benefiting from the public good.

"The public good"? I have no interest in such fantasy nonsense.

Present some actual arguments rooted in true empiricism and fact, not "Feel-good" marxist nonsense.

If you found yourself in that perfect libertarian paradise, libertarianism means: the strong get everything and the weak get nothing.

That's not what libertarianism means, but you are somewhat close to describing a meritocracy.

I would love to live in a meritocracy rather than a communist nightmare (aka feminist/leftist ideal). Those that work hard and produce actual results must be rewarded, the lazy, parastic, hyper entitled fools that can't hack it SHOULD have nothing.

I have nothing but contempt for the communist ideal. Meritocracy ftw.

You don't value opposing opinions.

Is that a joke? if so that was very funny.

If not, you do realize that "opinions" have exactly zero value, right? what matters is the quality of the argument presented. A person that presents a good argument will earn my respect, a person that presents a terrible argument will not. It's really not that difficult to understand.

I value the enemy very much so, but it has to be an enemy with the strength of character and intelligence to find weaknesses in my arguments and strike. I don't value someone that flails wildly and "Tries to win", that's nonsense.

The arrogance here is astounding.

Once again, the irony here is that I am actually not arrogant and am in reality, very humble.

I find it very amusing.

Good luck with that.

Indeed.

This was entertaining ...and very easy as well. Your arguments had no substance to them.

ModUlanopoDec 19, 201621 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eU5GrQcl,comment-id=00260001000000010000,timestamp=2016-12-19T20:44:57.933+0000)

This was entertaining ...and very easy as well. Your arguments had no substance to them.

I feel the same way about you, except that you failed to make an argument other than "LALALALA, I'M NOT LISTENING!!!" It means you can be safely ignored as a troll. Thank you for that.

Dominick DestineDec 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I feel the same way about you

Emotions do not dictate or affect my arguments. I have no "Feelings" towards you one way or another.

Your arguments, as they stand, were refuted with logic and reason. Fairly straightforward actually.

ModUlanopoDec 20, 201614 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eU5GrQcl,comment-id=0026000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-19T22:50:33.999+0000)

Your arguments, as they stand, were refuted with logic and reason. Fairly straightforward actually.

You are more than welcome to persist in that delusion. I hope it brings you comfort.

HexaDecimelDec 20, 201610 votes

Thank you for this conversation. All he does is spam the boards talking about strawman arguments and they draconian system. Every once and a while he go off on a tangent about how awesome his plat ranking is and how anyone lower then his rank shouldn't be allowed to have opinions.

He is never able to come up with a rational point and as soon as someone points it out he resorts to saying that he will verbally destroy them. In a way I feel bad because if this is how he is in real life then he probably doesn't have many friends.

Its always nice to see someone respectfully school him in debates.

ModUlanopoDec 20, 201611 votes

Thank you for the compliment, but I don't really consider this sort of thing to be "debate." He's a bully, of sorts, and all I did was stand up to him, within the confines of civility. At the end of the day, unless this is the genesis of some introspection and change for him - which I absolutely do not expect - then this will have been a lot of noise for nothing.

BraumsterDec 21, 20162 votes

I died of laughter due to this lmao

Tyrone LannisterDec 20, 20163 votes

OMG. De fking stroyed

RedWeddingDec 20, 20163 votes

Alright, at the risk of necro-ing this obviously passionate sentiment and a few other things, please don't take people like Dominick Destine as paradigms of libertarianism (and as someone who as lurked on the boards for longer than Mr. Destine has been alive, please don't take people like Dominick seriously. Ever.) Also, please don't think that all libertarians believe the way you think they do. Sure, angry an-caps do exist, but labeling the entire group by the outlier is not good practice.

... this is bordering too close on politics. I'm going to try to bow out now while I haven't made too much of a fool of myself.

ModUlanopoDec 20, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Alright, at the risk of necro-ing this obviously passionate sentiment and a few other things, please don't take people like Dominick Destine as paradigms of libertarianism

"The thing I find so amusing about the Randian dogmatists is how utterly full of shit they are."

Reread that and marvel at the specificity of my language. :)

Though, to be fair, most of the philosophical distinctions between individual libertarians seem to vanish the moment they obtain any political sway. Government bad, rules bad, free market good. Libertarianism used to be about pragmatic government.

(and as someone who as lurked on the boards for longer than Mr. Destine has been alive, please don't take people like Dominick seriously. Ever.)

Not especially likely. Also, there's an excellent chance I'm older than you... by rather a lot, both in laps around the sun and years on the Riot forums.

Also, please don't think that all libertarians believe the way you think they do. Sure, angry an-caps do exist, but labeling the entire group by the outlier is not good practice.

The same could be said of any philosophy and, yet, we shall know them by their limping.

... this is bordering too close on politics. I'm going to try to bow out now while I haven't made too much of a fool of myself.

Naw. I have mad respect for people who honestly speak their values and beliefs.

RedWeddingDec 21, 20162 votes

Not especially likely. Also, there's an excellent chance I'm older than you... by rather a lot, both in laps around the sun and years on the Riot forums.

Debatable. Lurking since season 1/2 ish... halfway through college. I can't remember when they made the switch to the "boards," but I was around before that. Posting on the forums? Yeah, I don't post much. Hardly ever. I mean, I could get out the ruler if you want, but I don't think this comparison is really worth much to begin with.

I have you pegged at about ~14 years older than me I think, but that's not what I was originally discussing:

as someone who as lurked on the boards for longer than Mr. Destine has been alive,

longer than Mr. Destine has been alive,

Mr. Destine

Unless you want to tell us something about your alternate account, I don't think I made a comparison to you ;) Aside from that, I enjoy using hyperbole... a device Destine lends themselves to quite well (just in case I need to clarify that statement further). I would hope that the "not especially likely" would refer to you taking Destine seriously and not the rest of the statement, which was merely meant to grant a frame of reference to my opinion.

Though, to be fair, most of the philosophical distinctions between individual libertarians seem to vanish the moment they obtain any political sway

You must not have followed the libertarian party this last election much at all. Or hell, pretty much ever. I swear, we're a bunch of angry cats. You know that old adage- "a good compromise leaves everyone angry?" Yeah, that's pretty much any candidate who gets anywhere... hated by like two thirds of the party they represent. It makes me sad- if we weren't mired with infighting we'd have managed to actually get somewhere. I have SO MANY OPINIONS as to why this is, but this is hardly the place to delve deeper. The TL;DR of them though is primarily that the majority of libertarians cannot or will not compromise their beliefs for anything, and that's just not feasible/sustainable.

Alright hang on maybe I do want to ask a question of you, if you'd be kind enough to give me an opinion:

"The thing I find so amusing about the Randian dogmatists is how utterly full of shit they are."

So, Ayn Rand was on some social services at at least one point in her life, and a common theme I see levied against Rand (and people who could be called, say, Randian Dogmatists) was this fact, and also how these individuals utilize public services themselves. They are called hypocritical and short-sighted, though usually with fancier words, and generally dismissed as fools.

But I had a thought. Would it not be in character for the egoists to take welfare, social security, etc? Arguably, this is the best avenue for them. After all, it's not their fault that the government is taking goods/money from those who are producing more, and since the money is available might as well take it. Hell, they don't even have to do anything and still they are provided for. They become the problem that they attempt to show in the system, but that ends up being the only logical course for them. Silly, yes, but possibly understandable?