Toxic People who make the reports

heckin low elos·11/14/2015, 3:22:24 AM·3 votes·2,155 views

I saw this from my friends' experiences with automatic ban thing. Right now it seems like when a player is reported, only that player is looked at and not the circumstances of the game. This is a pretty bad idea.

How players "should" behave on the internet is controversial, but it would be fair to have the same morals as real life. If someone is being an asshole and trash talks you for 5 minutes, you would probably say something back if not beat the shit out of him. Unfortunately if you do that in league (say one response like "stfu") and you get reported, you will be banned and the other person won't if they didn't get reported enough.

IMO reports should be replaced with "review game for toxic" so that if you report, you can get yourself banned if you were the one who was talking shit the most / the cause of the trouble.

This would have no effect on most players who make reports on people, just the toxic ones who think everything is someone else's fault. This will reduce the amount of bullshit reports, and also will make people reflect on their own actions before condemning someone else. This is constructive and allows them to become better people. In addition, people who barely said anything will be less likely to get banned because their toxic teammates won't want to report (risking getting themselves banned) after talking shit to him.

It's natural and socially correct, the right thing to do, to not take shit from people who aren't better than you.

The victim shouldn't get expelled for fighting back just because the bully cried to the teacher louder.

31 Comments

Daen11/14/2015, 3:36:47 AM5 votes

If someone is being an asshole and trash talks you for 5 minutes, you would probably say something back if not beat the shit out of him.

Let's start here. If someone is being an asshole to you and your retaliation is beating the shit out of that person, you will be arrested for felony assault and battery if the other person reports it to the police.

It's natural and socially correct, the right thing to do, to not take shit from people who aren't better than you.

This is an extremely limited worldview, especially in modernized countries like the USA. There are lots of ways to disengage from an altercation if the other person is not physically assaulting you, the easiest of which is walking away. You also have other options like trying to calm the situation with platitudes, ignoring the person, etc.

The equivalent to this in League of Legends is the mute functionality. If someone is being toxic to you, mute that person and report him/her after the game. Problem solved.


Overall, retaliation is not the same thing as showing strength. It actually takes far more willpower and strength of character to de-escalate or remove yourself from an altercation, there is no need to show you're tough by retaliating just as strongly as the aggressor.

ModUlanopo11/14/2015, 4:49:12 AM3 votes

It's natural and socially correct, the right thing to do, to not take shit from people who aren't better than you.

What you are describing goes by another name: totalitarianism. That's where the strong do whatever they like to the weak and it never, ever works out for the weak While you may think you are personally among the strong, you are not. That much is painfully clear from your post.

Strong people lift people up, rather than pushing them down. Strong people practice compassion, generosity and sympathy. Strong people appreciate that they are part of something larger than themselves and work to expand and strengthen that community. Strong people avoid adding to chaos and toxicity.

I encourage you to choose strength.

M1CH43L11/14/2015, 3:36:26 AM2 votes

I agree with you that circumstances should be taken into consideration--and Riot used to feel the same way once upon the time. When the Tribunal was around players could see the entire in-game chat log and make a judgment call. Riot has since scrapped this idea and gone with a faulty automated punishment system. Think of it like a drone that flies above your head in every game waiting for you to screw up.

It's pretty disgusting that this company thinks this is an ethical idea rather than a human rights violation.

M1CH43L11/14/2015, 6:27:40 AM1 votes

That's a matter of opinion. A toxic player damages morale and contributes to losses in a way that is just as damaging as "trolling".

Except you can mute a toxic player and leave your poor morale undamaged. You can't mute the damage that a troll can do.

Again, that's a matter of opinion. What you perceive as feeding may simply be a bad game. Regardless, adding fuel to the fire doesn't improve your chances of winning. Now, before you try to argue otherwise, there's math that says this. "Aggressive coaching" or venting makes you lose. People know this, which is why the community has always been very firm that it's not okay to add to toxicity.

If you have no proof to back up your statements, then you have no proof. What you're saying is a matter of opinion. Do you think the coaches of professional sports teams don't yell at their players? Do you think Lebron doesn't yell at fellow players who perform poorly? I've seen him. I've seen things like this go on, and there's more at stake here than just a simple victory. There's a lot of money involved. I think these guys know what works and what doesn't. I'm also not entirely sure that "adding fuel to the fire" doesn't improve your chances of winning. How do you know that? How would anyone know that? If even one time in the history of a sport "adding fuel to the fire" (berating your teammates) was the reason for your win, then it could in fact improve your chances of winning. But we all know that this argument isn't about winning, it's about what the 'majority' wants, regardless of outcome.

When I said feeding, by the way, I gave you the wrong impression. I don't mean someone dies once or twice and you completely go off on them. But if someone dies 5 times, or 8 times, or 10 times, particularly after giving them instructions on what to do in order to not die, and they don't listen, then yeah, I think they deserve some salt. They are effectively ruining the game even if their mindset wasn't out to ruin the game in the same way that a troll's was. They still are actively contributing to a loss for your team. Even in real life, if you instruct your teammate not to keep trying for 3's because he sucks at 3's and he doesn't listen and ONLY goes for 3's, essentially costing you the game, you have a right to be angry, and it would be letting that person off too easy to just sweep your anger under the rug. People need to understand that their performance effects other players, particularly if they're unwilling to listen to advice and just continue on stubbornly.

No one's asking you to be politically correct. They're just asking you not to be a jerk. Is that really so hard to accommodate?

"Jerk" is a very ambiguous word. What makes someone a jerk? If a player on your team purposefully dies to the enemy mid-laner over and over in order to get them fed and ensure that your team loses are they being a jerk? If you cuss at them are you being a jerk?

If a jungler starts an argument with you because you're taking jungle minions every so often, because it's difficult for you to farm in your lane, is that jungler being a jerk? Are you being a jerk if you continue to take jungle minions? Are you a jerk for arguing back with him? Are you both jerks if you start cussing at each other?

What exactly is a jerk? You act like it's as simple as black and white, but it's not. I know what the term "jerk" has become, though. As the community sees it, anyone who says anything 'negative' in chat, regardless of circumstances, is a jerk. That's pretty strict, and I feel that the community at large who feels this way are actually jerks themselves. They lack empathy and understanding.

LocaButt11/14/2015, 7:11:24 AM1 votes

The proper action would be to mute and report. Certainly not the most gratifying, but adding to toxicity with more toxicity = what?

EvilDustMan11/14/2015, 4:35:18 PM1 votes

I'd report the coat hanger line, I don't really feel comfortable taking that from someone I don't know, even in jest.

Metalhead711/14/2015, 6:46:42 PM1 votes

If you play the game right but still losing this means you where a victim of a rager who has turned against you and will do anything to see you Permanent banned.

Recommendations:

  1. Go to Customer support on riot games
  2. report you're situation along with you're summoner information 3.Remember the Summoner who is mostly the rager against you and warn riot that this guy is trying to Perma Banned you
  3. Avoid Ranked games for a while until riot puts you under a protect system to detect massive reports used against you
  4. Every game you play and at first thing you notice a rager against you write his summoner name and report it to riot DO NOT USE THE REPORT SYSTEM waste of time.

Follow this to prevent a permanent banned but act quickly, This is nothing more than a plan the league of legends High Elo community implemented Under riot's nose its called taking out the trash Method, the community is so tired of Unranked and Bronze players they will do anything out of Pure revenge.

Raistlin11/14/2015, 7:25:22 PM1 votes

If you are for example a happy camper, feeding the enemy team, trolling your team, but telling jokes, and being charismatic or funny, you could actually make your teammates get banned for trashtalking towards you on /all chat, this game is just too good in aspect of toxicity, its like a drama show.

The system doesnt check if feeding was intentionall, or not(based for example on damage dealt towards other enemies or items in inventory) it also doesnt check who started the verbal abuse first nor who did it the most.

Its a counter, you win over more ,call it "Votes" and your adversary, gets banned :)

Dig it? Simply say will honor you for reporting "name" player, and he is gone in most cases.

The core problem is that average playerbase ranges from 8-16 years old and maturity is in decline on some servers more than others. Second thing is that report system is rigorous but it doesnt have any finesse, just more open to exploitation xD

LegendaryLemur11/14/2015, 4:51:51 AM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hand Slipped,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=dwULvLN6,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-14T03:22:24.940+0000)

How players "should" behave on the internet is controversial, but it would be fair to have the same morals as real life.

That's reasonable

If someone is being an asshole and trash talks you for 5 minutes, you would probably say something back if not beat the shit out of him.

Maybe if you're in international waters, or even just out in the street, this is not entirely unreasonable. But if you are inside of any institution, say a school, grocery store, church, library, really just about anywhere, this kind of retaliatory behavior is unacceptable and would most likely end up in both of you getting kicked out. Why should league of legends be any different?

The correct response in league, as in any societal establishment, is to inform those in charge of the misconduct, not to take matters into your own hands. Heck, in league you even have a mute button -- much easier than dealing with harassment in the real world.

M1CH43L11/14/2015, 6:04:56 AM1 votes

No worries! In the future, you can just copy paste people's comments and stick a > before it, like so:

Thanks.

While this is technically true, it never happens in practice. I talk constantly in every game I play, even going so far as to get frustrated with how things are going, and I've never even been warned by any of the systems in place.

Basically, what I'm getting at here is that there is a pretty clear line between general communication/frustration and toxicity. General rule: if what someone is saying is deliberately intended to demean or otherwise harm the mental state of another player, it's probably reportable.

I'm not convinced that it doesn't happen in practice because I know nothing about what actually does happen in practice. Riot is not transparent with their methods or the way their systems work and I honestly don't trust them. I think they are corrupt and aren't above doing unethical things to their players. In the past unethical behavior has been alluded to between specific Rioters and specific players but I won't bring up things from years ago, because I honestly wasn't involved and don't have all of the facts. I only know what was presented on various forums. I will say that a company whose Terms of Service state that they can terminate your account for any reason or no reason doesn't get any awards in my book. They can basically do or say whatever they want and you just have to accept that.

As for "deliberately intended to demean", you don't think "rekt" qualifies? What was their intention exactly? To give their opponent a confidence boost?

For a system designed to ensure that the majority of your community enjoys the experience, it's generally safe to cater to the majority viewpoint.

I agree. However, is the majority spending the most money on the game? Or is it the "toxic" 1%ers? I would be attempting to cater to whichever group spent the most money, but I wouldn't completely throw any other contributing groups under the bus either. I'm guessing that Riot knows what they're doing in this regard but it's difficult for me to believe that the 'majority' spend that much more than this very aggressive minority. The reason? Because aggression = passion. Passionate people usually immerse themselves into things. The passionate people also make up the majority of higher-tier players (which is still a minority of players over all) I would imagine. I don't know how you could get that high of rank in this game without caring too much about the outcomes of each game. The only thing I can think of in regards to the so-called "toxic" players not contributing much monetarily is that they realize their propensity for being banned and refuse to spend money on the game; instead creating new accounts more often. In this case, Riot is losing out by setting such severe punishments for these players.

Would you say that an angry customer is being discriminated against when he or she is asked to leave a private establishment, after multiple complaints from other patrons?

I think you're blurring the lines between discrimination and discretion, here; it is in no way discriminatory for a company to set up rules by which it expects customers to abide.

The main difference between your real-world analogy and this game is that customers in an establishment can't mute the offending patrons who are annoying them. Their only recourse IS to inform the staff of the establishment and have the offending parties removed. In League you can just mute, and BINGO, no more annoyances.

As for Riot setting up rules--that's the problem. They haven't really set any. Most people don't actually know what they really can or cannot say other than extremes. I see forum posts regarding this all the time. "Can I get banned for saying this" , "I just got banned and I don't know why" , "I can't believe I got chat restricted, all I did was say this". It's a common type of post and it's been this way for years. Riot remains ambiguous because it's easier to control people that way.

In the case of recent events, Riot actually changed the game on its rules, so to speak, in implementing this automated system. Imagine going into an establishment for years and conducting yourself in exactly the same manner over the course of those years. Sometimes you were loud and obnoxious, but most of the time you were pleasant and/or kept to yourself. Either way, the owner only had to tell you to knock it off one time in all the years you'd been going to the establishment. One day, seemingly overnight, you go into the bar and it's one of your off-days. You get into an argument with another patron in the same manner as you've done in the past. It's still not something that happens very often, but it happened this day. Instead of letting it slide, like has been the case for years, the owner all of a sudden gets his goons to throw you out on the street and tells you not to come back for a month. After the month you wander back into the establishment and proceed to be on your best behavior. You're on your best behavior for two months when out of the blue the owner comes by and tells you that they're revoking your membership status. You're no longer allowed in on Friday or Saturday nights and you no longer get 2 pints for the price of one. Seems to come out of nowhere, right? Doesn't really seem fair, right? You argue that you respect the establishment and really thought it wasn't a big deal those times that you were too boisterous/obnoxious, because the owner never really said anything. The owner informs you that he's a Nazi and wants only to drink the sweet juice of your tears. You cry in disbelief and agony. (Welcome to Riot Games).

So while I'm all for a company setting up rules and things to benefit said company, I think there are right and wrong ways to go about it; and right and wrong ways of enforcing those rules. In my opinion, Riot has largely been choosing the wrong ways, particularly as of late.