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Would Appreciate Community Responses

dbmbro··1 votes·515 views

A response email to a Rioter about a banned account:

CHAT can easily be ignored. What can't be ignored (not HARD to ignore, IMPOSSIBLE to ignore) are teammates actively engaging in behavior that prevents you from catching up or even being able to stay in lane. God forbid you point it out that you need that experience and/or gold. Riot doesn't do anything about in-game behavior outside of chat. It takes countless games ruined by intentionally feeding or botting for you all to do anything about it, if it ever actually gets done. You have a system (muting) in place to immediately take care of verbal griefing, but NOTHING in place to immediately take care of trolling or behavior griefing.

So, this is a game, which means it should be enjoyable. If my team is refusing to help me in lane, the enemy laner consistently dives the turret, the jungler only comes to lane after I've died to take lane cs, and he also smites the camp I'm killing, outside of afk'ing, because THAT'S reportable, what is a player supposed to do? The game at this point has no enjoyable aspect to it. I can't stay in lane, I can't farm jungle camps, I'm 2-3 levels behind so I get insta-killed in team fights, and I would get flamed for going to another lane to soak experience. Your behavior system forces players to stay in a game where they can't contribute to the team, and it only takes 2 players (a minority in a 5-player-per-team game) to prevent a forfeit, thus prolonging the bad experience someone may be having. So what does Riot suggest you do at that point?

So how would this community respond to this?

BTW, chat logs on the game that got me banned:

[2:26] dbmbro (Teemo): gank [2:32] dbmbro (Teemo): no summs [4:05] dbmbro (Teemo): lmao [4:12] dbmbro (Teemo): ok, then i'll just let him free farm [5:11] dbmbro (Teemo): i'm done [5:11] dbmbro (Teemo): gg [5:24] dbmbro (Teemo): thanks for the ganks top [5:36] dbmbro (Teemo): lost 2-3 waves [5:41] dbmbro (Teemo): he didn't take tp [5:43] dbmbro (Teemo): and you haven't ganked [5:48] dbmbro (Teemo): ok [7:17] dbmbro (Teemo): for? he's freezing [7:21] dbmbro (Teemo): i can't go to lane [7:23] dbmbro (Teemo): he'll kill me [7:27] dbmbro (Teemo): and you refuse to help top [7:35] dbmbro (Teemo): because i'm falling behind in xp [7:41] dbmbro (Teemo): holy shit are you really htis dense? [7:53] dbmbro (Teemo): 2 levels up now [8:00] dbmbro (Teemo): he just all ins whenever i show [8:16] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): push top [8:19] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): jungler refusing to help [8:39] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): then bitches when i take jungle camp forr xp [8:44] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): lmao [8:51] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): typical jungler of mine...only comes to lane to take farm [9:00] dbmbro (Teemo): what do you want me to do? [9:02] dbmbro (Teemo): i can't even lane top any mroe [9:18] dbmbro (Teemo): 3 levels up on em [9:31] dbmbro (Teemo): it's panth..... [9:33] dbmbro (Teemo): he q's [9:35] dbmbro (Teemo): then tower dives [10:14] dbmbro (Teemo): he's 3 levels up now, lmao [10:19] dbmbro (Teemo): and 0 help pushing lane to turret [10:26] dbmbro (Teemo): unreal [10:47] dbmbro (Teemo): yep [10:50] dbmbro (Teemo): for what? [10:55] dbmbro (Teemo): i already told you [10:58] dbmbro (Teemo): ROFL [11:03] dbmbro (Teemo): i'm explaining my situation top [11:06] dbmbro (Teemo): that's hardly toxicity [12:35] dbmbro (Teemo): veig [12:41] dbmbro (Teemo): take a look at panth's summoners [12:44] dbmbro (Teemo): he took flash and ignite [12:50] dbmbro (Teemo): and i got 0 ganks top to put him back [12:58] dbmbro (Teemo): just another trollboy [13:12] dbmbro (Teemo): he auto wins top with ignite [13:15] dbmbro (Teemo): and panth [13:41] dbmbro (Teemo): i've called his summoners [13:42] dbmbro (Teemo): every time [13:44] dbmbro (Teemo): and 0 ganks [14:00] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): gg wp top [14:05] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): jungler refusing to gank...sigh [14:09] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): and veig griefing me [14:11] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): love it [15:31] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): for? [15:33] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): lmao [15:55] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): lmao, thought this community was improving with the bans....apparently not.... [16:32] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): just wanted my win of the day.... [17:10] dbmbro (Teemo): *you['re [17:12] dbmbro (Teemo): *you're [21:18] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): LOL [24:57] dbmbro (Teemo): now i have to push out further to farm [26:05] dbmbro (Teemo): rip [27:20] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): ggwp [28:58] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): lol [29:06] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): yeh [29:13] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): that damage tho [30:26] dbmbro (Teemo): rofl [30:32] dbmbro (Teemo): this jungler [31:32] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): any of y'all grouped? [31:45] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): you play like you are [31:46] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): :-
[31:47] [All] dbmbro (Teemo): ggw p

23 Comments

Subdue7 votes

Looks to me like you played poorly and want to blame Rammus. You don't pick Teemo and expect your jungler to camp your lane. Teemo is supposed to be a lane that wins without help, leveraging mushroom coverage to safely harass and push lane. Ganking for Teemo, especially one that's behind, is a futile endeavor. Teemo bring no CC and no burst to the fight, and he's too squishy to even be a meat shield. Best case scenario is that the jungler might be able to relieve some pressure at the expense of his own farm, or in Rammus's case, a better gank elsewhere. But more than likely, one or both of you would die.

Not ganking for you was the right call by Rammus, and you're toxic as hell.

dbmbro1 votes

Haha, I actually chuckled at your last line "toxic as hell." Clearly you haven't seen any other chat logs for bans. Looks like your part of the sjw/pc culture that our society has unfortunately produced. Any sort of negativity/non-rainbows and you're triggered to all hell.

"[I] played poorly" against a panth that just spams q's early game until he gets you low enough to kill you. If he takes ignite, it's a kill lane. You gank top laners that don't have tp to put them behind, especially one's that snowball like Panth and don't have an escape....like Panth. Also, it was a Kayn jungle. Not sure where you got the "Rammus" from. Please re-think your comment and life decisions.

Edit: Sorry, not sorry, if this reply triggered you again.

Edit #2: Deleted duplicate comment.

TwoChikfilaSauce2 votes

{quoted}

Haha, I actually chuckled at your last line "toxic as hell." Clearly you haven't seen any other chat logs for bans. Looks like your part of the sjw/pc culture that our society has unfortunately produced. Any sort of negativity/non-rainbows and your triggered to all hell.

"[I] played poorly" against a panth that just spams q's early game until he gets you low enough to kill you. If he takes ignite, it's a kill lane. You gank top laners that don't have tp to put them behind, especially one's that snowball like Panth and don't have an escape....like Panth. Also, it was a Kayn jungle. Not sure where you got the "Rammus" from. Please re-think your comment and life decisions.

Edit: Sorry, not sorry, if this reply triggered you again.

Edit #2: Deleted duplicate comment.

I don't think you're toxic but then again I'm an emotionally stable person who doesn't rely on Riot to keep the mean people on the internet from hurting my feelings.

TwoChikfilaSauce1 votes

{quoted}

Looks to me like you played poorly and want to blame Rammus. You don't pick Teemo and expect your jungler to camp your lane. Teemo is supposed to be a lane that wins without help, leveraging mushroom coverage to safely harass and push lane. Ganking for Teemo, especially one that's behind, is a futile endeavor. Teemo bring no CC and no burst to the fight, and he's too squishy to even be a meat shield. Best case scenario is that the jungler might be able to relieve some pressure at the expense of his own farm, or in Rammus's case, a better gank elsewhere. But more than likely, one or both of you would die.

Not ganking for you was the right call by Rammus, and you're toxic as hell.

Lol, what? Teemo is supposed to win lane without help? Even into Panth? What are you talking about? Punishing top lane without TP should be jungle priority. What you don't do is let the Pantheon get ahead and then start murdering everyone in the game.

Subdue4 votes

{quoted}

Lol, what? Teemo is supposed to win lane without help? Even into Panth? What are you talking about? Punishing top lane without TP should be jungle priority. What you don't do is let the Pantheon get ahead and then start murdering everyone in the game.

The comment regarding ganking for Teemo is a generic comment. In this case, Teemo was counterpicked. At that point, his goal is no longer to win lane, because that's not going to happen. He should take Exhaust and play passively, even if that means only farming the melee minions and hiding in the bush to soak up EXP. Teemo's goal should instead be to break even, or lose by as little as possible. If Panth doesn't get fed early, come the 25-30 minute mark, Teemo will become more useful.

As we can see from the log, Teemo is complaining about ganks at 2:26. Chances are, Teemo had already burned his flash, and probably even given first blood at that point. The Red/Blue buff doesn't even spawn until 1:40, and Rammus likely won't even have both buffs / level 3 until 3 minutes, which is when he'll have the tools to gank.

By 5 minutes, Teemo has apparently lost 3 waves of EXP somehow, probably given up another death I'm guessing. He should have just been farming melee minions here, and sitting in a bush to soak in EXP at range. But if he's 3 waves down, that means Pantheon is probably level 5 by now, with Teemo at around level 3. How is Rammus supposed to gank that? If he does, either it will be a 1v1 with Panth, in which he will lose, or it will be a 2v1 and Panth will 1 shot Teemo and then walk away.

Not ganking Teemo is the right call by Rammus, especially given that Teemo was apparently already feeding 2 minutes into the game.

Also, I didn't say you can't gank for Teemo ever. I said you don't pick Teemo expecting the jungler to camp your lane, because you bring literally nothing to a gank. The only time a jungler should gank a Teemo lane is if the enemy jungler's position is known and the enemy laner is pushed way deep or has been harassed down to at least half health by Teemo. Otherwise, ganking is a waste of time, time which can be better spent farming or ganking elsewhere.

Edit: Also, I have no idea where I got Rammus. I could have sworn I saw it in your post. The logic remains the same though. Kayn can't 1v1 a fed panth at level 5 either.

dbmbro1 votes

Telling a jungler to "gank" and "no summs" is not complaining. Holy mother of....seriously. You've got to get out of the sheltered world you live in if you think THAT's complaining. Panth didn't back, I had tp, KAYN (again, clearly you aren't understanding what champ is the jungler here....) refused to gank saying Panth is too strong (at lvl 2-3 at 20-30% health).

Also, it was blind pick.

Another also, jungler refused to even help out when Panth continued to dive me after lvl 4-5.

And actually, I'm not wasting any more time on you when you think that calling his summs and telling to gank is "complaining." Believe it or not, you and people like you are a HUGE part of the community problem.

Subdue2 votes

{quoted}

Telling a jungler to "gank" and "no summs" is not complaining. Holy mother of....seriously. You've got to get out of the sheltered world you live in if you think THAT's complaining. Panth didn't back, I had tp, KAYN (again, clearly you aren't understanding what champ is the jungler here....) refused to gank saying Panth is too strong (at lvl 2-3 at 20-30% health).

Also, it was blind pick.

Another also, jungler refused to even help out when Panth continued to dive me after lvl 4-5.

And actually, I'm not wasting any more time on you when you think that calling his summs and telling to gank is "complaining." Believe it or not, you and people like you are a HUGE part of the community problem.

4:12] dbmbro (Teemo): ok, then i'll just let him free farm [5:11] dbmbro (Teemo): i'm done [5:11] dbmbro (Teemo): gg [5:24] dbmbro (Teemo): thanks for the ganks top

This is complaining.

Also note this is literally 5 minutes into the game. 5 minutes. The jungle has had time for 1 gank at this point, 2 at the most.

And if panth can dive you and survive at level 5, most likely without even having boots 1 yet, you're doing terribly in lane and as a jungler I wouldn't waste my time on your lane. Better shot at winning the game by helping mid or not.

You asked for community input, and I'm telling you what I, as a platinum jungler, would do if I was jungling in your game. It's not about screwing you over. It's about taking the best path to victory, and in the game you've described, that path was not at top lane with the feeder Teemo.

dbmbro1 votes

"As we can see from the log, Teemo is complaining about ganks at 2:26."

YOUR words, not mine. Jungler was top side taking blue buff and refused to gank after I tp'd back. While I give you (some) credit for not knowing that, the rest of your comment is a joke.

IF you were a "plat" jungler that wasn't carried to that elo, you would know to abuse a top laner that didn't take teleport. You get your top laner 1-2 kills ahead, he can likely handle lane, even against a counter. And like some other comments have already stated, one or two deaths is not "feeding." Again, you're a considerable part of the "toxic" community with your labeling other players. If you're so adamant about improving the community, perhaps consider uninstalling the game yourself.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

There is no set answer, this isn't a black and white question, but then again you're the person who said Teemo should win lane no matter what without the help of the jungler. You said that, right? Then you changed your mind when you found out Pantheon was the person laning against Teemo top, right? You're the same person who didn't even know who was jungling, right? Right...

Thanks for showing. It is actually a black and white question. The answer is "Teemo would never win that lane no matter how many times the jungler ganked." Other possibly valid answers would be, "Maybe 20?" Or perhaps "Maybe if the jungler just sat in Teemo's lane and played 2v1 for 20 minutes."

Anyone with an understanding of the game can read that.

{quoted}

"As we can see from the log, Teemo is complaining about ganks at 2:26."

YOUR words, not mine. Jungler was top side taking blue buff and refused to gank after I tp'd back. While I give you (some) credit for not knowing that, the rest of your comment is a joke.

IF you were a "plat" jungler that wasn't carried to that elo, you would know to abuse a top laner that didn't take teleport. You get your top laner 1-2 kills ahead, he can likely handle lane, even against a counter. And like some other comments have already stated, one or two deaths is not "feeding." Again, you're a considerable part of the "toxic" community with your labeling other players. If you're so adamant about improving the community, perhaps consider uninstalling the game yourself.

I don't need your credit. I knew exactly where you were. In fact I bet I can even guess the condition of the lane. More than likely, by the time you got back to lane, you had a pile of minions pushed right up against your tower, with your lane opponent MIA, probably walking back to lane. By the time your jungler finished blue, maybe he was back, maybe he wasn't, but by the time the jungler next caught vision of him, he likely back in lane, now an item and probably a level up on you. It's true his summoner's are probably down, but then again, so are yours.

If Kayn ganks right then and there, you'd either A) miss your big wave of minions, or B) run past your minions to try to chase Pantheon down, who again is now 1 level and 1 item ahead of both you and your jungler. Pantheon would run into a bush, and then immediately turn around when you get into range, jumping on and killing you, probably instantly.

Maybe, MAYBE, Kayn manages to secure a kill on him afterwards. It's 50/50 there, but regardless, you miss another wave of EXP, and when you get back to lane, Pantheon will be 2 levels and 2 items ahead of you.

That is how that gank would go, probably 80% of the time. And the 20% of the time that both you and your jungler manage to show amazing skill and outplay him, it wouldn't matter, because Teemo needs to be way ahead of Pantheon in order to be able to play aggressively against him. So as soon as the jungler leaves your lane, you'd be back in the same spot.

The only guy in this thread who thinks otherwise is a silver player, and he has 0 games played as a jungler. I'm done explaining this matchup to you. Sometimes the jungler decides a lane is a lost cause, and sacrifices it to win the other lanes. That's simply part of being a jungler. You don't need to win every lane to win the game, you just need to win the key lanes. The laners worth playing with are the ones who know how to play the difficult matchups, and the ones that own the results of their lanes even if they can't win it. I always honor the top laners that know this, that stick it out in a tough lane I've chosen to give up, because even though they might end up with an ugly score, they've contributed heavily to the team's win.

You can keep your delusion if you want. It doesn't matter to me. But you won't improve with your way of thinking.

TwoChikfilaSauce2 votes

{quoted}

The comment regarding ganking for Teemo is a generic comment. In this case, Teemo was counterpicked. At that point, his goal is no longer to win lane, because that's not going to happen. He should take Exhaust and play passively, even if that means only farming the melee minions and hiding in the bush to soak up EXP. Teemo's goal should instead be to break even, or lose by as little as possible. If Panth doesn't get fed early, come the 25-30 minute mark, Teemo will become more useful.

As we can see from the log, Teemo is complaining about ganks at 2:26. Chances are, Teemo had already burned his flash, and probably even given first blood at that point. The Red/Blue buff doesn't even spawn until 1:40, and Rammus likely won't even have both buffs / level 3 until 3 minutes, which is when he'll have the tools to gank.

By 5 minutes, Teemo has apparently lost 3 waves of EXP somehow, probably given up another death I'm guessing. He should have just been farming melee minions here, and sitting in a bush to soak in EXP at range. But if he's 3 waves down, that means Pantheon is probably level 5 by now, with Teemo at around level 3. How is Rammus supposed to gank that? If he does, either it will be a 1v1 with Panth, in which he will lose, or it will be a 2v1 and Panth will 1 shot Teemo and then walk away.

Not ganking Teemo is the right call by Rammus, especially given that Teemo was apparently already feeding 2 minutes into the game.

Also, I didn't say you can't gank for Teemo ever. I said you don't pick Teemo expecting the jungler to camp your lane, because you bring literally nothing to a gank. The only time a jungler should gank a Teemo lane is if the enemy jungler's position is known and the enemy laner is pushed way deep or has been harassed down to at least half health by Teemo. Otherwise, ganking is a waste of time, time which can be better spent farming or ganking elsewhere.

Edit: Also, I have no idea where I got Rammus. I could have sworn I saw it in your post. The logic remains the same though. Kayn can't 1v1 a fed panth at level 5 either.

Why did you write this wall of text? At first you said Teemo should always win lane but once I point out the information that was clearly in this thread you start talking about counter-picks. Doesn't that seem a little bit too convenient to you? Wait, now you want Teemo in top lane to take exhaust? Take what, exhaust and tp? Exhaust and flash? Are you kidding right now? Come the 30 minute mark the game is over. What bush is Teemo sitting in? Panth can clearly push the entire wave in anytime he wants and as Teemo said he was being tower dove over and over because that is just what Panth does. Calling for a gank at 2:26 because the guy has no summoners doesn't mean he is complaining. He is saying, "Hey jungler, this guy just blew both summoners, has no tp, is pre-level 6 so this would be a perfect time to gank him and set him back in lane." - 4:05 is when he responds to KAYN who probably refused to gank the lane. According to your timeline KAYN should have been able to gank. You weren't even in the game so you have no idea what the right call for KAYN was especially when you said Teemo should win lane without ganks/help and then retracted that statement when you realized, "Oh yeah, Pantheon is a counter to Teemo."

Feeding isn't dying once. Feeding isn't even dying twice. So saying he is feeding in the first 2 minutes of the game is nonsensical. No one was expecting the jungler to camp the lane they were expecting one gank early game to allow the Teemo some breathing room.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

Why did you write this wall of text? At first you said Teemo should always win lane but once I point out the information that was clearly in this thread you start talking about counter-picks. Doesn't that seem a little bit too convenient to you? Wait, now you want Teemo in top lane to take exhaust? Take what, exhaust and tp? Exhaust and flash? Are you kidding right now? Come the 30 minute mark the game is over. What bush is Teemo sitting in? Panth can clearly push the entire wave in anytime he wants and as Teemo said he was being tower dove over and over because that is just what Panth does. Calling for a gank at 2:26 because the guy has no summoners doesn't mean he is complaining. He is saying, "Hey jungler, this guy just blew both summoners, has no tp, is pre-level 6 so this would be a perfect time to gank him and set him back in lane." - 4:05 is when he responds to KAYN who probably refused to gank the lane. According to your timeline KAYN should have been able to gank. You weren't even in the game so you have no idea what the right call for KAYN was especially when you said Teemo should win lane without ganks/help and then retracted that statement when you realized, "Oh yeah, Pantheon is a counter to Teemo."

Feeding isn't dying once. Feeding isn't even dying twice. So saying he is feeding in the first 2 minutes of the game is nonsensical. No one was expecting the jungler to camp the lane they were expecting one gank early game to allow the Teemo some breathing room.

You're right it was a waste of time explaining the match up to you.

So instead, I'll just ask you a simple question. How many times does Pantheon need to get ganked before he can't bully Teemo?

TwoChikfilaSauce2 votes

{quoted}

You're right it was a waste of time explaining the match up to you.

So instead, I'll just ask you a simple question. How many times does Pantheon need to get ganked before he can't bully Teemo?

Wait, the guy who didn't even know who the jungler was and retracted statements about Teemo always winning lane is now making it seem like I need something explained to me? You're funny man.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

Wait, the guy who didn't even know who the jungler was and retracted statements about Teemo always winning lane is now making it seem like I need something explained to me? You're funny man.

I asked you a pretty simple question. How many times?

TwoChikfilaSauce2 votes

{quoted}

I asked you a pretty simple question. How many times?

No what you did was insult my intelligence and experience with this game after being corrected and then changed the subject.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

No what you did was insult my intelligence and experience with this game after being corrected and then changed the subject.

So you don't know. Thanks for clarifying.

TwoChikfilaSauce2 votes

{quoted}

So you don't know. Thanks for clarifying.

There is no set answer, this isn't a black and white question, but then again you're the person who said Teemo should win lane no matter what without the help of the jungler. You said that, right? Then you changed your mind when you found out Pantheon was the person laning against Teemo top, right? You're the same person who didn't even know who was jungling, right? Right...

This Is Your Dad1 votes

People pick teemo to win lane, and not much else. If he has to be babysat Teemo to do Teemo's 1 job, it'll be a detriment to the team later, especially since his ability to play teemo is in question. What Teemo did actually cost the game, not Rammus. Teemo chose to lose his cool and attack his own team. At that moment he desired the loss. It's a self-defeating behavior "Woe is me, guess I'll just throw and afk and feed and boo hoo."

TwoChikfilaSauce1 votes

{quoted}

People pick teemo to win lane, and not much else. If he has to be babysat Teemo to do Teemo's 1 job, it'll be a detriment to the team later, especially since his ability to play teemo is in question. What Teemo did actually cost the game, not Rammus. Teemo chose to lose his cool and attack his own team. At that moment he desired the loss. It's a self-defeating behavior "Woe is me, guess I'll just throw and afk and feed and boo hoo."

Yeah I'm sure people who pick anything but Teemo do so to lose lane. Are you serious? Yeah, telling your jungler who refuses to gank means you desired the loss. So hilarious!

This Is Your Dad2 votes

Don't bother with this guy, it's like slamming your face into a brick wall made of nails. And yes, that makes no sense.

Leaf on Bush1 votes

You can gank any lane, even Teemo. The only lane I would not gank is Nasus who farms under tower against somthing like Urgot or Darius, because Nasus is better off avoiding any fights early and you would just get raped as jungler.

FightORFlight1 votes

You're making such a big fuss over a blind pick game?

I play tons of games when kata and enemy jungler dive me 24/7 under mid tower while our jungler watches all you can do is ward so you can be well prepared, try to outskill them and minimize the damage. Jungler focused more on other lanes and thats fine... you dont always get to be camped by your jungler

Also i bet that even after 2 deaths you went on and try to poke pant, even trade with him knowing you are likely going to die

Edit: but i see your point.. pant dived you and you wanted jungler to counter that... in blind pick you rarely get junglers that are always in place where the action is (counter ganking, helping with turrets when enemy recalls, taking drake when bot recalls, countering dives etc.)

Sorin Alucard1 votes

yo, we've all been tilted by the "camped, getting no ganks, counter-picked, losing hard situation", but it was 1 game. Also, you gave into tilt and started flaming. Did you really think that when the jg wouldn't come, and your teammates started arguing with you, that you were going to get ANYWHERE with the conversation? Then if you felt like it wasn't gonnna happen, why continue the convo past requesting ganks and announcing you're not doing well? As far as I see, your communication should've ended there. You should've muted, accepted you'd lose lane, and survive that shit as best as possible. You should've started lane with a defensive item. You shouldve built defensively past that point with the sole goal of surviving, and if you couldn't (cuz panth v teemo is panth's favor) accept your loss of lane and look to how to help the team past lane phase. If the others were toxic, and you weren't, you just lost and reported them for being toxic, you wouldn't be on this board, pissed that you got called out by riot for being negative in game. You'd be on another game, learning from the last one and hopefully winning.

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