Boards›Player Behavior

Riot Stats on player behavior are wrong.

KilianShaw··3 votes·1,266 views

Its pretty apparent that the league community is falling apart. The stats on positive players are either exaggerated or taken out of context or ignoring so many variables that they are completely erroneous. League reports such a low rate of toxic players... obviously they haven't really been looking or are trying to deny the basic and obvious truth... or haven't played their own damn game. The hypocrisy is unreal. A high rank player or riot employee for example can say WHATEVER they want and play in a way that is intentionally detrimental to the team... and suffer zero consequences and don't fall into the stat because of that... even though a lot of times they are passive aggressive game ruining jerks. However, the players who may say something to them about it in a way that's less than complimentary are considered "toxic" (not many do this because most players don't bother saying anything to people who have decided to ruin the game for them). I'm about done with this game. Oh and anyone who says anything about this subject is "bullied" and shouted down and told to stop "crying". Because THAT isn't toxic or less than constructive. Even the term "toxic" is relative to the person saying it. Everyone has a different definition and RIOT doesn't exactly have a set of guidelines that define what "negativity" or Toxic" is. They don't even have any solid definitions of what teamwork or sportsmanlike conduct are. The "summoners code"? Really? No. Because there isn't a panel of justice, there isn't a fair hearing. There is an automated system that says "oh this guy pissed people off lets ban him from chat". The code is a bunch of bull and the league community has gone to crap and is only getting worse...I can even predict what most of the responses to this post will be. If anyone has the attention span to actually read it. I used to have a good attitude all the time when playing this game. Not so much anymore.

41 Comments

EvilDustMan8 votes

{quoted}

A high rank player or riot employee for example can say WHATEVER they want and play in a way that is intentionally detrimental to the team... and suffer zero consequences and don't fall into the stat because of that... even though a lot of times they are passive aggressive game ruining jerks.

Source needed.

Medúsa1 votes

tyler1? has been challenger, was diamond 2 when he was banned for toxicity

KilianShaw1 votes

{quoted}

tyler1? has been challenger, was diamond 2 when he was banned for toxicity

He was in a high profile area with a much smaller player base. Doesn't really apply here. I was referring to smurfs and such. I didn't think I honestly had to make that clear. I referring to the majority of the players in league and the "elites" who like to come slum into the lower 75% range of players to run their mouths at players trying to operate at their current level (call them bad, make fun of them, tilt them just cus, is that positive playing) ... Not the ones playing in their groups among the top few.

Hambone20134 votes

Care to source any of these claims?

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

Yeah, so don't play. I like their rules, and I hate having to listen to people like you in my games. You are toxic, you are free to disagree with that, and if you quit playing, we will ALL (including you) be happier for it. Good conclusion. Cya.

Martensitic3 votes

Its pretty apparent that the league community is falling apart

By what measurement is that "apparent"? Because, your opinion is not a measurement.

A high rank player or riot employee for example can say WHATEVER they want and play in a way that is intentionally detrimental to the team... and suffer zero consequences

Shaclone permabanned. Any other nonsense you wanna add?

a lot of times they are passive aggressive game ruining jerks.

Oh, "passive aggressive"...aka. the No.1 bullsh* accusation people bring out, when they wanna report someone, but have no real reason to do so.

I'm about done with this game.

I am sure Riot is heartbroken. Only 99.999.999 players left then. That's gonna make the shareholders wrinkle their heads for sure.

Oh and anyone who says anything about this subject is "bullied" and shouted down and told to stop "crying". Because THAT isn't toxic or less than constructive. Even the term "toxic" is relative to the person saying it.

No, but the boards are governed by different rules than the ingame chat.

No. Because there isn't a panel of justice, there isn't a fair hearing

Sunshine, this isn't a civil court. This is a service agreement between you and a company. A service agreement THAT YOU SIGNED.

They don't have to give you "a fair hearing". They don't even have to notify you. In fact, its not even your account, they own it, and can do with it as they please wheter you like that or not.

I used to have a good attitude all the time when playing this game. Not so much anymore.

Yeah, you come off as a nice and relaxed guy for sure :D

elduris3 votes

{quoted}

A high rank player or riot employee for example can say WHATEVER they want and play in a way that is intentionally detrimental to the team... and suffer zero consequences and don't fall into the stat because of that... even though a lot of times they are passive aggressive game ruining jerks.

I'd like to ask you to check out this article by The Escapist from 2011, back before Riot had today's behavioral policies. In case you don't like clicking, let me summarize for you.

A Riot Games employee has been shown the door after verbally abusing a League of Legends player and slapping him with an undeserved 30-day ban, all of which was streamed live on his Justin.tv channel.

Steve "Pendragon" Mescon, Riot's director of community relations, initially responded to the situation by acknowledging that PsyonicHero was a Riot employee and saying that an internal investigation would be made. Shortly thereafter, he released a follow-up statement saying that the rep's actions "were both inappropriate and outside the confines of Riot Games internal policy," and that he had been fired as a result.

Riot takes behavior in-game very seriously, especially when it concerns their own employees. I would be very hesitant to claim that Rioters can go around verbally abusing people in-game and suffer no consequences at all.

KilianShaw1 votes

{quoted}

I'd like to ask you to check out this article by The Escapist from 2011, back before Riot had today's behavioral policies. In case you don't like clicking, let me summarize for you.

Riot takes behavior in-game very seriously, especially when it concerns their own employees. I would be very hesitant to claim that Rioters can go around verbally abusing people in-game and suffer no consequences at all.

I don't know why I should be hesitant to express an opinion about personal experiences in forum. So basically your saying "be careful about voicing your thoughts because...." My point is that players attitudes are garbage and a lot of people pretending they aren't doing anything wrong are contributing to the problem. Including those claiming to be riot employees or having connection to riot employees. My point is mostly that I don't see improvement. In 6 years my gaming experience and the community has become worse. I also know I am far from the only person who has seen this trend. But every time its brought up RIOT throws out some lame stat about how its not true. No. Its just not reported most of the time. It seems most people who DO want to report want to do it for reasons that have nothing to do with behavior and just basic level of skill.

elduris4 votes

{quoted}

I don't know why I should be hesitant to express an opinion about personal experiences in forum. So basically your saying "be careful about voicing your thoughts

Nope, I said I would be hesitant to say that. Especially because it's not true at all. You can voice whatever opinion you want, so long as your post falls within the rules of the board. I personally talk to a bunch of Rioters on a daily basis, but if I was going around trolling games, I'd be banned just as anyone else would be. My point of linking you the article was to show you that it doesn't matter who you are or who you know, if you break the rules, you'll be punished.

My point is mostly that I don't see improvement.

I used to have a good attitude all the time when playing this game. Not so much anymore.

Maybe the reason you're not seeing improvement is because your own attitude is proliferating toxicity. A change in outlook would do you some good.

KilianShaw1 votes

{quoted}

Nope, I said I would be hesitant to say that. Especially because it's not true at all. You can voice whatever opinion you want, so long as your post falls within the rules of the board. I personally talk to a bunch of Rioters on a daily basis, but if I was going around trolling games, I'd be banned just as anyone else would be. My point of linking you the article was to show you that it doesn't matter who you are or who you know, if you break the rules, you'll be punished.

Maybe the reason you're not seeing improvement is because your own attitude is proliferating toxicity. A change in outlook would do you some good.

lmao typical response I see these days "Im not toxic, YOU are" Thanks for the insight bud. Maybe you should try opening your mind before accusing someone of being toxic just because you don't agree with them.

elduris4 votes

{quoted}

lmao typical response I see these days "Im not toxic, YOU are" Thanks for the insight bud. Maybe you should try opening your mind before accusing someone of being toxic just because you don't agree with them.

Not calling you toxic, just suggesting ways you can see some improvement. If you have a bad attitude toward your teammates, it's not helping the situation at all and in some cases, can make things worse.

Ad Vitam Aeterna1 votes

The mods deleted that other guys thread, here's direct proof that riot support doesn't want or care about people submitting reports to them

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player

"Reporting a player through the in-game system is the only way to ensure that such a case will face potential punishment; reports sent to Player Support will not count against a player."

EvilDustMan4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ad Vitam Aeterna,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=cfhlaocz,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T23:54:17.376+0000)

The mods deleted that other guys thread, here's direct proof that riot support doesn't want or care about people submitting reports to them

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player

"Reporting a player through the in-game system is the only way to ensure that such a case will face potential punishment; reports sent to Player Support will not count against a player."

A) Riot support doesn't moderate the forums. B) Because people without both sides of the story may attempt witch hunts to go after the person. Rather than have someone be wrongly accosted by internet mob justice, they don't allow naming and shaming at all.

Ad Vitam Aeterna1 votes

A) I never stated they did. I said the mods, aka the mods of these boards. B) I never stated I did or didn't agree with the other guys thread being removed, and I'm well aware why it was removed. Don't make assumptions that I don't. Apparently you go around posting on these boards simply for points, otherwise there would be zero reason you'd be posting right now.

KilianShaw1 votes

{quoted}

Not calling you toxic, just suggesting ways you can see some improvement. If you have a bad attitude toward your teammates, it's not helping the situation at all and in some cases, can make things worse.

I generally don't. I have a pretty clean slate. I'm saying I have a good attitude towards my teammates just to watch them act like complete jerks to people who even try to go out of their way to be nice to them.

DrCyanide1 votes

If that's consistently the case, then I suspect you've got a case of what you type not coming across like you intend. Happens a lot with written communication. You could probably test if it's you or them by not saying anything (or as little as possible) for ~20 games and see if things generally seem better.

ph1234k2 votes

Toxic

KilianShaw2 votes

And this is about what I expected. What "source" would you have me quote. That's a laughable request. Source requested? For what? How? Besides my own personal experiences and observations and the observations of many different players I talk to and associate with there really isn't a source. How could there be? You want a source? Do a survey. Find out who thinks the League community is generally not toxic. How about you give me a source and show me where it clearly defines the definitions of the things you can be reported for or can be considered toxic about. I challenged THEM to show a source. I challenged you to show me how in these vaguely defined definitions and rules that no one seems to follow can generate accurate statistics in any possible fashion about the general toxicity of the community. ESPECIALLY when the people defining the definition of toxic is anyone who is being told something they don't want to hear. My point is, RIOT is wrong about the positive factor of the community. Its more childish and toxic and full of trolls than ever. If anything the comments left have proven that point.

AeroWaffle6 votes

Um.

How do you suggest Riot show a source? They are the source.

You're the one challenging their data, with nothing but your personal experiences.

My own personal experiences tell me that trolls are extremely rare. I only get them once every dozen games or so. Someone being rude is more common, but I still only get them every 5 games or so. And since there's 9 other players per game, that would be roughly 1/45.

Hambone20131 votes

Same here. Most people are just fine in my experience.

LexxiBunny4201 votes

now add up the amount of players on our server...

AeroWaffle5 votes

I gave my personal experience to essentially counter OP's point. 1 person's experience is a horrible sample size. 100 people would be a bad sample size for League of legends.

Which is why the only proof someone is going to get for the general behavior of its users is from Riot themselves. Since they have all the users to draw data from.

KilianShaw1 votes

{quoted}

I gave my personal experience to essentially counter OP's point. 1 person's experience is a horrible sample size. 100 people would be a bad sample size for League of legends.

Which is why the only proof someone is going to get for the general behavior of its users is from Riot themselves. Since they have all the users to draw data from.

Excpet every player that has a bad experience doesn't report. Most negativity goes unreported... and things that aren't negativity get reported all the time. SO how can riot really accurately tally it up? The majority of players aren't in the high end of the playing field. Your personal experiences are probably not typical for the majority of lower functioning players. Im drawing on 6 years of experience and associations in the game and observing how the community has gotten worse. I may not be able to have access to all the data my friend but I'm not about to ignore what Ive seen which is why I went from agreeing with the RIOT stat to slowly disagreeing with it over the last 2 or 3 years.

AeroWaffle4 votes

Excpet every player that has a bad experience doesn't report. Most negativity goes unreported

And you know this... how? I personally make sure to report negativity.

and things that aren't negativity get reported all the time

If this were the case people would be getting the, "You've been reported a lot recently" warning much more often.

Your personal experiences are probably not typical for the majority of lower functioning players. Im drawing on 6 years of experience and associations in the game and observing how the community has gotten worse.

I joined this game before Xin was released. So >6 years ago.

scazzman2 votes

{quoted}

If this were the case people would be getting the, "You've been reported a lot recently" warning much more often.

riot eliminated this warning. because of 2 reasons

  1. false reports would trigger it. causing people to panic.
  2. legit toxic players would get the popup. and then "counter report" everyone in the lobby
AeroWaffle1 votes

Ah. My mistake then.

KilianShaw1 votes

{quoted}

And you know this... how? I personally make sure to report negativity.

If this were the case people would be getting the, "You've been reported a lot recently" warning much more often.

I joined this game before Xin was released. So >6 years ago.

And you're defending the positive demeanor of the League community now vs what it was? Well. Ok then.

AeroWaffle1 votes

As a game attracts a wider audience, it will subsequently attract a wider array of people with varying morals. Back in 2010, League wasn't exactly the powerhouse that it was now.

So while it's true that the behavior is worse now than it was then, it's to be expected with a growing game.

However, it's my opinion that the average behavior in games has gotten better since Riot started taking a more firm stance against poor behavior (about a 1 1/2 years ago). It was pretty damn bad when people believed that they could verbally harass someone with little chance of reports doing anything quickly (and they were right, since reports were manually reviewed before the Tribunal and before the automated system).

Pantheon Forever4 votes

https://img.memecdn.com/the-art-of-trolling_o_521164.jpg

Pantheon Forever4 votes

http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/am0Q2Mv_700b.jpg

Pantheon Forever2 votes

http://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/how-to-troll1.jpeg

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR5 votes

{quoted}Besides my own personal experiences and observations and the observations of many different players I talk to and associate with there really isn't a source.

Well that's kind of the problem. Anecdotal evidence really isn't evidence.

LexxiBunny4201 votes

how are you supposed to aquire evidence on this? really? THIS is counterproductive lol

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR2 votes

You could, for example, do a randomized survey of a couple hundred players and check how many of them display toxic behavior. Or you could check how many players are punished versus how many players the game has and compare the two to find a ratio. Ya know, kinda like what Riot does.

EvilDustMan2 votes

{quoted}

And this is about what I expected. What "source" would you have me quote. That's a laughable request. Source requested? For what? How? Besides my own personal experiences and observations and the observations of many different players I talk to and associate with there really isn't a source. How could there be? You want a source? Do a survey. Find out who thinks the League community is generally not toxic. How about you give me a source and show me where it clearly defines the definitions of the things you can be reported for or can be considered toxic about. I challenged THEM to show a source. I challenged you to show me how in these vaguely defined definitions and rules that no one seems to follow can generate accurate statistics in any possible fashion about the general toxicity of the community. ESPECIALLY when the people defining the definition of toxic is anyone who is being told something they don't want to hear. My point is, RIOT is wrong about the positive factor of the community. Its more childish and toxic and full of trolls than ever. If anything the comments left have proven that point.

Your source is flawed. You have too small a sampling size(you play a small number of games compared to all the games played), your sample doesn't cover the spectrum(you are only counting games in your ELO and region), and confirmation bias(you remember toxic people more than games where nothing happened).

Riot has access to tons of data. Do some cases go unreported? Probably. Do some cases not get caught by the system? Probably. But not so much as you assert.

LexxiBunny4202 votes

i fully aggree, please see my recent post/poll about toxic players and a possible solution to the problem!!!

KilianShaw1 votes

Lol URLA? You call that specific when it comes to defining what is toxic? I was making the point that RIOT is grossly underestimating the toxic players in this community and that their "facts" about it were erroneous and wrong... I also explained that my OPINION was unsourced and anecdotal in a later comment as "source" for this is going to be impossible to find as there has been no research. Thank you all so much for proving that point. I appreciate your remarks and concerns but I have personally experienced attitudes from people at least claiming to be riot employees that were less than professional. If they do take it seriously then maybe they should take reports of people claiming that they work for them just as seriously.

KilianShaw1 votes

To summarize. I personally believe the data is bull and taken out of context. Also as a long time player Ive seen the community turn sour. I dont think the current system of "reporting" works and the honor system doesn't really do anything to promote good behavior. I hate when a person in my team says they are going to "report" or demands a report in all chat..... like really? That action and request in and of itself is divisive, negative and in my opinion toxic. Even if that is the ONLY thing that player says. That crap is inflammatory. Its a direct threat to someones gaming access or chat usually given because the player involved isn't doing what the other players want and in no violation of what solid rules are outlined. Do I believe there is corruption among RIOT employees? Well yeah, because I'm not stupid or naive. There's no such thing as a perfect system. Or perfect professionalism. I'm ok with that. It's expected. What I really am saying is negativity and toxicity has NOT gotten better despite any stat to the contrary. Im making the claim that RIOTS stat about positive players ignores a ton of variables. Otherwise when I play 3000 games in a season, I wont be seeing one or two asshats in every single one I play.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

That action and request in and of itself is divisive, negative and in my opinion toxic.

Apparently you and Riot agree.

KilianShaw1 votes

Honestly i believe this sort of explains everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxAabW7JfTQ

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