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I am respectfully disappointed with Player Behavior Discipline

CaseCrazy··7 votes·998 views
League of Legends Match History

Let me start by saying I have been a long time player of League of Legends since Beta and have enjoyed playing the game Off and On over the years. I have lead many a player into Riots loving arms out of love for the game and a want to expand it's family. However today I have experienced an offence by the Moderation department. After a already stressful game playing Yasuo into Zed. A quick snowball formed and I was being dived behind my turret by the Zed player, who went on unpunished by our jungler "Malzahar". Which I simply dismissed during the game since I didn't want to be negative or toxic in anyway. Especially since I knew I was the one feeding. After verbal abuse from my teams Corki and Malzahar, obviously being the target for feeding (Which in a counter lane I'm sure most of you have experienced). I was starting another game with my 2 friends from the previous match when I was hit with a 14 day suspension (not even 2 minutes later). In which they showcased the one game and claimed extensive review. to solidify this offense. Here is some pictures of what is claimed to be proof of my apparent feeding. I ask that we begin to question what we can do about a system like this that punishes players that attempt to improve the community . I can understand that feeding should be a punishable offense. But what do we deem feeding and what we deem just poor luck and inherent skill differences. [(http://imgur.com/a/akbje)]

Respectfully yours, Casecrazy

25 Comments

themachamp4 votes

Lol at 2 minute "extensive review" XD

Earlstoke3 votes

I think the issue isn't the feed but the intention. Getting stomped is different than intentionally increasing the strength of the opponent by feeding them kills and ultimately gold. Looking at the heatmap you provided the vast majority of deaths from your team are in the midlane behind the safety of turrets. This indicates to me the lack of intention to feed and more just an inherent disadvantage in gold/skill.

I think the timeframe is lame frankly. 2 minutes after a report is issued means that it was simply an automated ban and with only one case to site does not constitute a 2 week ban. It's a shame when good players or at least the non toxic players in any situation are the ones who feel the brunt of and disciplinary decision.

Is there any way to overturn or appeal a ban like this?

Jubbinaut5 votes

{quoted}

I think the timeframe is lame frankly. 2 minutes after a report is issued means that it was simply an automated ban and with only one case to site does not constitute a 2 week ban.

Just because the Reform Card only cites one game doesn't mean that there are no other games in the case.

Earlstoke2 votes

That's fine, but should the person being punished be shown for what exactly?

Lets for one second assume that a person who is truly deserving of a ban doesn't realize they are doing something punishable and all they are presented with is a single game in which they legitimately tried and failed (not a bannable offense). How are they supposed to take anything away from that punishment?

On the flipside being presented with a laundry list of bannable offenses over a period of time no matter how wide or narrow gives legitimacy to the system. If this were how it always worked I could 100% get behind the system, if it worked like this offenders are faced with their actions and allowed to make the choice to fix them in future games after their ban or not and face all the same or graver consequences.

However what we're presented with is a report system in which someone gets reported, for a legitimate reason or a not so legitimate reason, (We've all had that jerk on our team that /all chats Report this "insert champion name here" for feed.) and after an extensive 2 minute review the ban hammer drops.

It's a flawed system, and in this case, I believe a perfectly good natured player is suffering the brunt of it's flaws.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

That's fine, but should the person being punished be shown for what exactly?

Keeping in mind that the same system handles all Reform Cards, how many individual games do you think should be put in the Reform Card? All of them? Some of them? If some, how many? How do you decide which ones? If all, what happens when the list of instances is overwhelmingly long?

Lets for one second assume that a person who is truly deserving of a ban doesn't realize they are doing something punishable and all they are presented with is a single game in which they legitimately tried and failed (not a bannable offense). How are they supposed to take anything away from that punishment?

That's basically the entire purpose of this board.

On the flipside being presented with a laundry list of bannable offenses over a period of time no matter how wide or narrow gives legitimacy to the system. If this were how it always worked I could 100% get behind the system, if it worked like this offenders are faced with their actions and allowed to make the choice to fix them in future games after their ban or not and face all the same or graver consequences.

Only inasmuch as they choose to see it. And even then it only matters inasmuch as they are willing to recognize that there's a problem.

However what we're presented with is a report system in which someone gets reported, for a legitimate reason or a not so legitimate reason, (We've all had that jerk on our team that /all chats Report this "insert champion name here" for feed.) and after an extensive 2 minute review the ban hammer drops.

You're assuming that illegitimate reports trigger punishments. Since the systems are specifically intended to prevent that as much as possible, I don't think it's safe to consider it a given.

It's a flawed system, and in this case, I believe a perfectly good natured player is suffering the brunt of it's flaws.

If you think averaging more than 1 death every 2 minutes isn't intentional feeding - or at the very least, gross negligence - I don't really know what to say.

Earlstoke1 votes

{quoted}

If you think averaging more than 1 death every 2 minutes isn't intentional feeding - or at the very least, gross negligence - I don't really know what to say.

I am not in any way implying that the average deaths per minute are defendable here. He had an awful game. My argument is not particularly about the game in question. It's about the system that allows for an otherwise perfectly positive player, to be harshly punished over apparently one report.

Think about it the next time you have a 0-X-0 game, because you will, we all do at some point.

TrulyBland2 votes

{quoted}

I am not in any way implying that the average deaths per minute are defendable here. He had an awful game. My argument is not particularly about the game in question. It's about the system that allows for an otherwise perfectly positive player, to be harshly punished over apparently one report.

Think about it the next time you have a 0-X-0 game, because you will, we all do at some point.

You're jumping to conclusions, though. The system doesn't only use KDA to determine feeders. You are assuming right off the bat that there were no more obvious tells that we have no access to. Previous games similar to that; actual movement patterns; possible admission in chat. We have basically no information. Sure, a healthy dose of scepticism isn't a bad idea when it comes to justice systems... but you make it sound like a fact that the system is flawed.

Earlstoke1 votes

It does seem to me that it is. If his account was flagged for other offenses then the message could have given him more information regarding them.

I myself tend to veer as far away from toxicity in game as possible and try to uphold a fairly positive standard of attitude and play, so I've never dealt with being reported, but I know that if I were to be banned I would like to know exactly what caused it. That's all I am really saying.

According to the information provided I believe this ban to be unwarranted.

TLDR Give me a laundry list of my offenses

TrulyBland3 votes

{quoted}

It does seem to me that it is. If his account was flagged for other offenses then the message could have given him more information regarding them.

I myself tend to veer as far away from toxicity in game as possible and try to uphold a fairly positive standard of attitude and play, so I've never dealt with being reported, but I know that if I were to be banned I would like to know exactly what caused it. That's all I am really saying.

According to the information provided I believe this ban to be unwarranted.

TLDR Give me a laundry list of my offenses

Regarding other offenses, that's kind of a fair point. Still, the point stands that this game may have been significantly more clear than it might seem to us. And why they don't list the exact stats that made them consider it feeding presumably has two primary reasons:

Some of the stats that lead to flagging the game are probably extremely mathy... and even involve other games. For example Riot has already been pretty clear that for flagging itself they use the players' overall average stats across all games, depending on gamemode, depending on champion, depending on role, etc. etc. Apart from the fact that this might be a bit too much to put into one simple "you were banned"-message, I don't even know how you would properly communicate these things, assuming that the banned person might not actually know all that much about statistics.

Secondly, the more they give away about the exact circumstances that lead to the ban, the easier it is to circumvent... I remember a time where trolls used to openly and happily announce that they're intentionally feeding. Along came Tribunal and banned pretty much all of these. Until the trolls simply stopped admitting what they're doing in chat. The same would happen here if Riot were to reveal their newest methods for identifying feeders.

CaseCrazy1 votes

Basically I had two of my friends in the game that is being flagged as me being a feeder neither one of those players see that game in any way as me intentionally feeding. I said maybe three things in chat over the entirety of the game and none of those could be seen as toxic. In a overwhelming toxic chat pool.

Honestly after being affected like this by the tribunal I see in the same respect as the Salem Witch trials. I understand I had a poor game, lets hit me with a 2 week ban on my account to rub some salt on that burn. At the very least if they wanted to communicate the message more clearly in their 2 minute overwhelming judge on whether or not I constituted a ban. they could list me average stats on yasuo and compare them to the game and give me the difference. Or hell open a dialogue with one of the players who was neutral and ask questions regarding the match or even one of those who did report me. Then I would feel better about the decision. But rather I'm hit with the above set of pictures which were done in such a lazy fashion that I don't feel like they earn their paycheck every month (assuming it's not a robot).

Earlstoke1 votes

{quoted}

Secondly, the more they give away about the exact circumstances that lead to the ban, the easier it is to circumvent... I remember a time where trolls used to openly and happily announce that they're intentionally feeding. Along came Tribunal and banned pretty much all of these. Until the trolls simply stopped admitting what they're doing in chat. The same would happen here if Riot were to reveal their newest methods for identifying feeders.

There's something we can agree upon, I will concede that point to you.

But I feel strongly about this particular case because I know the person banned in question. I know that he is a good member of our community from personal experience. This point I have left out until now simply because it held no relevance to my arguments prior. I know that he SUCKS with Yasuo and is trying to improve it, and I know that it was a normal blind pick game in which he was faced with a champion he does not do well against in general. I also know he was playing with a good friend of mine who is a diamond player. He and I play a lot of normal games together in between ranked seasons so the MMR for that que is significantly higher than that of the banned player. This brings the matchups for him in solo lanes up in difficulty. He is silver 5, used to playing in that skill range. When he plays with us he's more likely to play against high gold to low diamond. I know that the color of your border does not determine how good you are, but it does represent things like games played and almost always directly correlates to game knowledge. He was 100% outclassed and as a less skilled player than his lane opponent did what he could to mitigate damage.

I wasn't in the game to say for certain but I can more or less guarantee that he got red in his eyes and just tried to outplay the Zed and failed when he was already behind. I can say this because I know that this is how my friend plays. He likely started trying to jungle and play more passively too long after Zed had complete control of his lane and himself. This could have been dealt with by his team shifting to help him but I imagine he was left to his own devices to lay in the bed he made. FF@20 move on, but he was reported, which is fine to do. But if that is how the game panned out, and again I wasn't there to 100% guarantee it, though I'm sure that's how it went. That isn't intentional feeding. It's a player on one end being outclassed, outplayed, outlaned, and unhelped.

He does not underperform like this often and this was his one awful game for the month. To be banned of the back of that sucks, I don't care who you are.

Jubbinaut3 votes

You didn't really address my questions.

{quoted}

I am not in any way implying that the average deaths per minute are defendable here. He had an awful game. My argument is not particularly about the game in question. It's about the system that allows for an otherwise perfectly positive player, to be harshly punished over apparently one report.

The system's always been tuned that way, even under the Tribunal. It takes multiple (valid) reports to build a case, but it only takes one game of sufficient toxicity to warrant punishment.

As for the severity of punishment, that's down more to necessity than anything else. 2-week bans are pretty much the lowest relevant punishment on the scale. Of course, there's also the fact that intentional feeding is considered especially heinous, thus warranting skipping up the scale.

Think about it the next time you have a 0-X-0 game, because you will, we all do at some point.

I think about it all the time - I basically live on these boards, so you can imagine I spend a lot of time considering the functions of these systems.

But I'm not worried about it, because I don't intentionally feed. And since that's what the systems are intended to detect, it's extremely unlikely that my behavior would be recognized as such - that is, unlikely to the point of being effectively impossible.

Jubbinaut3 votes

Three deaths in just over 4 minutes - which means you started giving kills almost as soon as you and your lane opponent ran into each other. In fact, at no point during the game do you manage to do better than 1 death per 2 minutes.

I can't lie: that doesn't look like trying to me.

CaseCrazy1 votes

First off, you can not be punished for simply trying in a game. My line of thinking in the match was that my level 1 beats Zeds level 1. So I went all in at the right moment I had almost lethal damage done to zed he flashed barely within tower range and I took 1 too many steps towards him and was killed in the trade which started the snowball. So I'm not trying because I wasn't successful? Was I not trying when my jungler refused to do anything about it and simply farmed for 20 minutes in our jungle making toxic comments. Was I not trying when I attempted to jungle to stay out of lane to avoid dieing to an obvious severe threat, only to be hunted in said jungle by the entire enemy team. I had full wards in that jungle and since they were so far ahead and my team lacked any ability to stop them they stayed in their respective lanes and didn't help. Would trying constitute me afking and not attempting to help at all. If that's the defensive line of thinking you have towards the boards simply because you don't like change. I don't think your help is warranted.

PIMPSMOOTH2 votes

Regardless of how eloquently written the OP is, 0-13-0 is intentional feeding period.

When you get counter picked you know it in champion select, so that doesn't stop you from opting to play safe in lane. Sure, maybe you tried to all in and/or got ganked once, twice, a third time and none of them panned out in a kill and you fell behind 0-3.

But 0-13-0 just shows me that you never considered to try a new strategy, never even bothered to try and roam to get yourself a kill elsewhere on the map or get a teammate an advantage so they could carry the game.

What you're selling in the OP, I ain't buying. That scoreline is inexcusable for a 23 minute match.

themachamp2 votes

{quoted}

Regardless of how eloquently written the OP is, 0-13-0 is intentional feeding period.

When you get counter picked you know it in champion select, so that doesn't stop you from opting to play safe in lane. Sure, maybe you tried to all in and/or got ganked once, twice, a third time and none of them panned out in a kill and you fell behind 0-3.

But 0-13-0 just shows me that you never considered to try a new strategy, never even bothered to try and roam to get yourself a kill elsewhere on the map or get a teammate an advantage so they could carry the game.

What you're selling in the OP, I ain't buying. That scoreline is inexcusable for a 23 minute match.

You can play "safe" and still die alot....esp with a zed that can tower div e with his ult and get out for basically free.

PIMPSMOOTH1 votes

{quoted}

You can play "safe" and still die alot....esp with a zed that can tower div e with his ult and get out for basically free.

Obviously. After the 5th time that happens it's time for a new approach, yes? Perhaps roam bot where you know a Karma lane is pushing and going to over extend and there's an ally Alistar waiting to summoner 4 > headbutt >pulv?

Nah, let's stay mid and rinse, repeat, feed to the tune of 0-13-0 over the course of 23 minutes.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

themachamp1 votes

{quoted}

Obviously. After the 5th time that happens it's time for a new approach, yes? Perhaps roam bot where you know a Karma lane is pushing and going to over extend and there's an ally Alistar waiting to summoner 4 > headbutt >pulv?

Nah, let's stay mid and rinse, repeat, feed to the tune of 0-13-0 over the course of 23 minutes.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

lol this is low level solo Q. He would prob get blamed for leaving mid and letting zed have free towers. xD If people want to report you they will, for anything. Idk about his chat but 2 weeks for 1 game is pretty harsh =/

also, for all we know.....zed may have been a smurf shrug

PIMPSMOOTH1 votes

{quoted}

lol this is low level solo Q. He would prob get blamed for leaving mid and letting zed have free towers. xD If people want to report you they will, for anything. Idk about his chat but 2 weeks for 1 game is pretty harsh =/

He's Silver 5, it' s not Bronze 5. Well.........lol.

I'd be surprised if Riot gave him 2 weeks for a first offense such as this as someone else mentioned.

The Whamboozler4 votes

HALF this. Looking at your score is sure as hell looks like feeding. Is it possible to have such an unlucky game that you go 0/11/0? Yeah. But damn dude, not even an assist? If I'd seen that score without seeing the game itself and someone told me you were trolling/feeding, I'd believe them.

That said... a 2 week ban from ONE game of reports seems unduly harsh. There have to be some priors here to get you banned that badly over one awful game. Unless you've been a massive jerk to people in chat in the past or something they should have given you a warning AT BEST. A two week ban seems like overkill.

JARmates1 votes

{quoted}

HALF this. Looking at your score is sure as hell looks like feeding. Is it possible to have such an unlucky game that you go 0/11/0? Yeah. But damn dude, not even an assist? If I'd seen that score without seeing the game itself and someone told me you were trolling/feeding, I'd believe them.

That said... a 2 week ban from ONE game of reports seems unduly harsh. There have to be some priors here to get you banned that badly over one awful game. Unless you've been a massive jerk to people in chat in the past or something they should have given you a warning AT BEST. A two week ban seems like overkill.

If I did troll I would still get more kills and assist than this. This is beyond trolling or in this case a really bad player.

CaseCrazy1 votes

If you look at my heat map and my score you'll see that I attempted to safely jungle I was warding, and all my deaths are at river or behind. I was being killed in my own warded jungle because if Zed saw me it was instant full combo death. there wasn't much my team could do after Zed became 4-0. I do not blame anyone for my own mistakes but I think after I'm that far behind in the game with a champion that performs subpar from behind, that it becomes a team problem when there is no protection at all. I do have a history playing for years on this account. that prior consists of a short stint in which I was having connection problems and was put in low priority que. Should these two things be correlated? Also, this was a normal game. A game in which most people use to practice champs. I don't claim to be a yasuo main. I was attempting a champion that I don't have much experience with.

Sarutobi1 votes

I agree with a lot of the people commenting on here. Going 0-13 and not even getting any type of assist just seems sketchy. I mean it's really hard to believe you weren't feeding since its 0-13. This means you took zero chances of changing up your play style. Like others have said you could have roam. Or early game play safe under tower. What I don't understand is why it's a two week ban. This means you were more than likely ban before?

Earlstoke1 votes

Casecrazy has not been banned before.

Lew1 votes

The bans for intentional feeding can be for just 1-2 games and are only 2 weeks or a permaban.

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