Flaming should be allowed.

Report this Ahri·Sep 29, 2018·5 votes·3,504 views

Just a thought. Why should Riot be moral police? This is the internet and it's a freakin' video game. Let people say and write whatever they want with no repercussions, no bans no chat restrictions or anything dumb like that. Just look at CSGO, they've mastered it. Don't try to force people to have a positive behavior. Even if you have a bad day, you're not allowed to be yourself "you must act accordingly to our overly protective rules". Besides that, you punish people who lack impulse control and/or have anger issues and such. However, there might be a business strategy involved here. They usually ban people who have spent money on league and typically, most passionate poeple are the ones who usually flames so Riot knows that those will eventually comeback if they get perma banned and then they'll spend even more money on skins and such. And don't get me started on how easy it is to get punished for being "toxic". You can't even critize someone anymore without the risk of getting punished. I know that Riot are thin skinned and they want to protect people's feelings but it's not realistic at all. You can sneeze and someone will get offended. However, racism and such shouldn't be allowed. I think this is a compelling argument to remove this crappy system.

97 Comments

DuskDaUmbreonSep 29, 201816 votes

Why should people have to deal with others being jackasses, though?

What good does that bring to the system?

BoatwhistleSep 29, 20181 votes

Needless control of people gives me stress though, already am disinterested in life and then everywhere I turn people want to coerce/conform me into behaviors that makes theirs more enjoyable to them in their own ways however much they can get away with. I like kindness too but restricting freedom is the highest form of cruelty.

EvilDustManSep 29, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Needless control of people gives me stress though, already am disinterested in life and then everywhere I turn people want to coerce/conform me into behaviors that makes theirs more enjoyable to them in their own ways however much they can get away with. I like kindness too but restricting freedom is the highest form of cruelty.

You have a freedom of speech. But not freedom from consequences. You can act like an ass. But we'll treat you like an ass.

BoatwhistleSep 29, 20181 votes

I am an anarchist, this is a business... legislation/government policy is irrelevant to both me and here. Something being a freedom means it is free of repercussion under an authority within their power, this does not exist in league for speech. Societally imposed "punishments" like being mean to mean people are consequences but its not the kind that can be given any regard by the one receiving them, its not forced onto them... its done passively.
I am extremely anti authoritarian it cant be helped. I am also extremely kind but you will never know amongst league platforms as everyone is boxed into a degree of etiquette. Sorry if I am guilty of wrong thought.

EvilDustManSep 29, 20186 votes

{quoted}

I am an anarchist, this is a business... legislation/government policy is irrelevant to both me and here. Something being a freedom means it is free of repercussion under an authority within their power, this does not exist in league for speech. Societally imposed "punishments" like being mean to mean people are consequences but its not the kind that can be given any regard by the one receiving them, its not forced onto them... its done passively.
I am extremely anti authoritarian it cant be helped. I am also extremely kind but you will never know amongst league platforms as everyone is boxed into a degree of etiquette. Sorry if I am guilty of wrong thought.

Anarchy or not, actions will always have consequences. Let's say it's something else. Half court basketball or a tabletop RPG. If you act like an asshole, those people will ask you to leave. Then tell you to leave.

Riot isn't just asking to leave if you act like an ass. Everyone is. The majority of players don't want to deal with it.

If you don't want consequences for your actions, leave human society.

BoatwhistleSep 29, 20181 votes

I don't act like an ass, this issue isn't personal... I just hold sympathy for those losing accounts over the weakness of others to have some empathy for their stress, mute them, and get on with it. I have honor 5, I haven't been banned, I am nothing but constructive in game. Again this isn't personal.

TrulyBlandSep 29, 20182 votes

Where is the flamer's empathy for a player who also may have had a really bad day and is now trying to distract themselves? More importantly: If lack of empathy entitles you to dump your stress on others, why would anybody try to show empathy? It's clearly easier to just dump your own stress on somebody else. And if somebody flames you, just flame back. May the bigger flamer vent the most stress.

Not that this would actually work. Eventually both parties would be more stressed out than before and nobody gets to actually enjoy the game. This is pretty much the prisoner's dilemma. Without authority to skew the results there is basically no reason not to go for the selfish route that ultimately leads to everybody being worse off. Especially if there is already enough evidence that a lot of people are taking the selfish route.

BoatwhistleSep 29, 20181 votes

I never said the initial aggressor is devoid of fault, I merely suggest the one on the receiving end of a such a mild ordeal rise above and ignore it. Its so easy I do it all the time in all parts of my life, is practically just existing. Their failure to do so is their fault and its saddening this is treated as being the better of two evils. I agree, most people being as they are sucks.

Imperial PandaaSep 29, 20185 votes

Then you are welcome to create your own business and set the rules for it. If you want Anarchy, then people may still feel as if you are wanting to coerce or conform them for such.

For more proof you could actually just consider Marijuana in the States. Some States it is legal to smoke. Some you can also grow. Others you may only be able to get it in oil form. The point being no matter where you go in life, there will always be rules that you either need to follow or risk consequences.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20182 votes

You should have the freedom to express your opinion and if the person on the other end doesn't like it, he could always use the mute button.

Umbral RegentSep 29, 20187 votes

...and if the person on the other end doesn't like it, he could always use the mute button.

And the report button. They're both there for similar reasons - to stop someone from continually breaking the rules and being assholes to others.

Also...

I know that Riot are thin skinned...

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the people who complain about punishments and repercussions for breaking the rules are the ones who have thin skin? Because they flip their shit that they're not allowed to attack and harass other people?

Just sayin'.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the people who complain about punishments and repercussions for breaking the rules are the ones who have thin skin? Because they flip their shit that they're not allowed to attack and harass other people?

You seem to underestimate how easy it is for you do get punished for "negativity". I mean criticism is typically negative I find, even constructive criticism. And you can report someone for being "negative". You don't find that to be over the top?

ModWulf HelhammerSep 29, 20184 votes

And you are vastly underestimating how incredibly easy it is to not get punished for toxicity in the slightest.

######edit: grammar

Umbral RegentSep 29, 20182 votes

~~Not to be a bother, but I think you may have meant "underestimating". I apologize if that is what you meant, but, I figure given the context that there may be a slight grammatical error.~~

ModWulf HelhammerSep 29, 20183 votes

You saw nothing

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Umbral RegentSep 29, 20183 votes

Lips = sealed.

zPOOPzSep 29, 20181 votes

I saw things that cannot be unseen!!!

Umbral RegentSep 29, 20184 votes

Like AvantelWings said - it's incredibly easy to not get punished. If it were really so easy to get punished, I'd've gotten punished ages ago, yet here I'm sitting on a clean slate.

Constructive criticism is a delicate thing to manage, especially in a game of League, where you have to focus on a lot of shit all at once.

As for reporting someone for being negative...No, I don't find that to be over-the-top. 'Cause reports for general negativity (negative attitude, passive-aggressive remarks, defeatist attitude, etc.) only push players by a small margin towards a punishment. It takes a lot of consistent negativity to result in a 10-game CR from a clean slate, and negativity only really detracts from the game, so I find it fairly reasonable that it's a reportable offense, given all that I know of the system.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

As for reporting someone for being negative...No, I don't find that to be over-the-top. 'Cause reports for general negativity (negative attitude, passive-aggressive remarks, defeatist attitude, etc.) only push players by a small margin towards a punishment. It takes a lot of consistent negativity to result in a 10-game CR from a clean slate, and negativity only really detracts from the game, so I find it fairly reasonable that it's a reportable offense, given all that I know of the system.

You are essentially reporting someone for being human. We all have different methods on how we approach tricky situations, and different attitudes as well.

Umbral RegentSep 29, 20186 votes

Except they can be human without spilling their shit into the game. They can be human without dragging other players down into the pit with them.

Griping, moaning, complaining, trying to make others forfeit with you and share your defeatist attitude (and I say this all figuratively, mind) doesn't help anything, and that extends doubly-so to the more direct and deliberate offenses like harassment, verbal abuse, etc.

People can gripe or moan or complain or yell IRL, at their computer screen, and have a better effect personally and on their team than if they spent the whole game whining about "Ornn OP" or anything like that.

It's fine to have different approaches, but when those approaches involve miring other people in your dissatisfaction and sapping at team morale, it's time to find another approach.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

It's fine to have different approaches, but when those approaches involve miring other people in your dissatisfaction and sapping at team morale, it's time to find another approach

Team morale would mean anything if we were playing ranked team with proper communication tools. It's basically a free-for-all in lower elos who just happens to be on the same team.

If you knew anything about humans you'd know that plenty of us are unable to adapt our attitudes and such to different situations. And it's not something you easily can change.

Umbral RegentSep 29, 20184 votes

Team morale would mean anything if we were playing ranked team with proper communication tools. It's basically a free-for-all in lower elos who just happens to be on the same team.

As long as it's a team game, team morale is going to be a sizeable factor in how things play out. If a team believes they can win, they're more likely to actually win than if they believed that the match was pointless and that loss was/is inevitable.

Having low morale and believing that something is going to be a loss will just result in self-fulfilling prophecies most of the time, so why bring your team down and make it harder to win when you could instead uplift and rally them?

If you knew anything about humans you'd know that plenty of us are unable to adapt our attitudes and such to different situations. And it's not something you easily can change.

I know enough about humans to know that that's a flat-out lie. Humans can adapt easily, they just need a reason to adapt.

Sometimes that reason has to be necessity of teamwork, other times it's the knowledge that you'll be punished if you don't change. The core factor in anyone's ability (or lack thereof) to change is their willingness to do so. All people are capable of changing, and most of them do when necessity demands. Only a scant few remain set in their ways and adamant against changing.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

Having low morale and believing that something is going to be a loss will just result in self-fulfilling prophecies most of the time, so why bring your team down and make it harder to win when you could instead uplift and rally them?

It's psychological, for me at least. The less hope I have, the less disappointed I am when I lose the game. I just state my opinion (why we should forfeit and why the game is lost) and whether or not their morale goes down, thats up to them.

I know enough about humans to know that that's a flat-out lie. Humans can adapt easily, they just need a reason to adapt. Sometimes that reason has to be necessity of teamwork, other times it's the knowledge that you'll be punished if you don't change. The core factor in anyone's ability (or lack thereof) to change is their willingness to do so. All people are capable of changing, and most of them do when necessity demands. Only a scant few remain set in their ways and adamant against changing.

They don't actually change their behavior/attitude though. They are just pretending and they are given a reason to pretend. For example, toxic people are given a reason not to be toxic but it doesn't actually change their behavior in any way. They are just pretending that they have.

Umbral RegentSep 29, 20182 votes

It's psychological, for me at least. The less hope I have, the less disappointed I am when I lose the game. I just state my opinion (why we should forfeit and why the game is lost) and whether or not their morale goes down, thats up to them.

No hope (or less hope, technically) is no way to live, but I digress.

As AeroWaffle mentioned in their comment string with you, you can suggest a Surrender Vote by actually initiating it, but trying to coerce or compel your team to side with you and push the surrender vote is unneeded negativity.

They don't actually change their behavior/attitude though. They are just pretending and they are given a reason to pretend. For example, toxic people are given a reason not to be toxic but it doesn't actually change their behavior in any way. They are just pretending that they have.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was speaking to the Voice of Humankind. Do you speak for everyone, or just yourself?

I don't see much reason in continuing this discussion if you're gonna act like you know everything and that anything that contradicts what you say is wrong.

HonourThreshxDSep 30, 20181 votes

[deleted]

EvilDustManSep 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

[DELETED CONTENT REMOVED - ULANOPO]

Historically, manliness was equated with killing people for insults, so a man never did it unless it was damn serious

Zombie GerbilSep 29, 201810 votes

Compelling? Far from it. This is why we have the system. To keep people like yourself from ruining it.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

This is why we have the system. To keep people like yourself from ruining it.

How come? Do you accuse me of being toxic? and if I was, wouldn't "the system" have punished me yet?

Zombie GerbilSep 29, 20182 votes

Yet. Keyword. Also, you're 30. This is likely your 4th or more account.

If you're confident that the system isn't an issue, then why mention it? It'd be the least of your worries, but since you're posting about it to be removed... maybe you're not as confident as you make it out to be.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

I want to be able to express my opinion and be able to critize players to an extend without being punished for it.

also, you're 30

What?

Zombie GerbilSep 29, 20181 votes

Well, good thing the system doesn't bend to your standards. Regardless of what you think or do, you only bend to Riot's policy. Or find a new game.

"What" what? Oh, you lose track of what account you're on that you forgot level you are currently?

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

Regardless of what you think or do, you only bend to Riot's policy. Or find a new game.

Hence why I suggested to change said policy, I don't expect it to be inplemented but I just expressed my opinion.

"What" what? Oh, you lose track of what account you're on that you forgot level you are currently?

No, I was just unsure what you meant by simple writing "30". You seem very upset at the thought of me having another account.

Zombie GerbilSep 29, 20182 votes

Good thing no one else does. So that idea is shut down. Moving on.

Upset? No, you're just reacting to my comment negatively because I am aware that it's a fact. I have no real relevant feeling except being aware that I am not surprised by the fact that you are using multiple accounts because it shows you can't handle one account due to your toxicity. I also find it amusing anyone would that has one account.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

Upset? No, you're just reacting to my comment negatively because I am aware that it's a fact.

Then why would you mention it twice?

have no real relevant feeling except being aware that I am not surprised by the fact that you are using multiple accounts because it shows you can't handle one account due to your toxicity. I also find it amusing anyone would that has one account.

Does it? Or are you just making stupid assumptions? There are other reasons people have multiple accounts.

Good thing no one else does. So that idea is shut down. Moving on.

Feel free to move on, nobody is forcing you to comment on this thread.

R107 GamesSep 29, 20182 votes

its.. not a good idea to argue with that guy lol, just check his post history, he is dead set on his opinions and you cant ever change it, give up now

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

Yep I've noticed that.

AeroWaffleSep 29, 20189 votes

The same sentiment can be used the other way around, why should Riot let people be assholes in their game?

It just drives away customers and makes a bad image for the game.

You think that flaming should be allowed but still draw a line at racism and other forms of bigotry. It goes to show that you don't truly believe that Riot should take a completely hands-off approach and let people say whatever they want.

You just want Riot to draw the line at the same place as you, not remove the line completely.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

It just drives away customers and makes a bad image for the game.

Do you know what drives away customers? When you punish them for being slighty negative.

I just think that Riot spend way too much resources to eliminate toxicity and toxic players when their own game is clearly falling apart, they are declining in players. And being overly sensitive doesn't help either, I doubt that you can even critize a player anymore. I don't even want to try and see if I get punished or not.

AeroWaffleSep 29, 20184 votes

The amount of people actually punished by the system is low according to Riot. It believe it was something like only 14% of players have ever been hit by the first punishment, with decreasing percents at each step until only 0.004% of people have been perma-banned. (fudged the numbers, but not the trend).

Compared to the number of games that these people influence with their poor behavior it's extremely low. It's a necessary evil. If you're only making the game a worse place with your behavior alone you either need to tone it down or leave. It's that simple.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

If you're only making the game a worse place with your behavior alone you either need to tone it down or leave. It's that simple.

But you can't tell players how their behavior should be. I have a behavior considered to be negative by many people, I don't get a lot of honors. I usually want to forfeit if I can clearly see where the game is heading and I don't hesitate. I usually give up if I go 0/2 for example sometimes even if I die once. Not to the point where I troll but to a point where I tell myself that we're going to lose the game and that's it's wasting my time when I could go into another game. Also, I tend to be more disappointed after a loss if I have a positive attitude. So according to you and Riot, I should be punished for having said attitude?

AeroWaffleSep 29, 20184 votes

Depends if you only give up attitude-wise or if you also transfer that defeatist attitude through to the communication or gameplay. Nothing is preventing or punishing you for having a defeatist mindset. Only when you force that on other people at the expense of their enjoyment.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

Depends if you only give up attitude wise or if you also transfer that defeatist attitude through to the communication or gameplay. Nothing is preventing or punishing you for having a defeatist mindset. Only when you force that on other people at the expense of their enjoyment.

Well you have the option to report someone for having "negative behavior" whatever that means. Other players will surely find my attitude and behavior negative and then it's up to Riot to determine if I should be punished or not.

AeroWaffleSep 29, 20183 votes

They have nothing to report if you don't impose your defeatist attitude through chat or gameplay.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

Do you consider suggesting forfeit is "imposing" my attitude on others?

AeroWaffleSep 29, 20183 votes

You can suggest forfeiting by starting a forfeit vote. If that fails that should be it, don't pressure them to forfeit through chat.

ModPeriscopeSep 29, 20188 votes

They usually ban people who have spent money on league and typically,

The amount of money spent has no bearing on whether or not you get punished.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

The amount of money spent has no bearing on whether or not you get punished.

You don't know that, they might have a hidden agenda.

ModPeriscopeSep 29, 20186 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/p68b1QWG-my-account-is-banned-500-in-riot-points-and-hours-of-my-life-dedicated-to-your-company-for?comment=00030001

I mean, it wouldn't make sense to protect or ban certain players for money, right?

If you spend a lot of money and get banned, are you really likely to get another account and buy more content? Or how about the other way around. If I'm consistently spending money, wouldn't it be more beneficial to keep me, regardless of my behavior?

Simple fact is, they don't retain toxic players, because that reduces whether people want to sit down and play the game, which would reduce how much we'd spend on it.

Report this AhriSep 29, 20181 votes

Well the playerbase is declining and Riot has never been tougher against toxicity. Why do they waste their resources on stupid stuff like this instead of trying to fix the real issues League has at the moment.

DrCyanideSep 29, 20184 votes

Riot has been pretty much the same stance on toxicity for the last 4 years. The player base decline is in the last 2 years. The two aren't connected.