Boards›Player Behavior

Its life, deal with it?

iknowisuckSORRY··2 votes·974 views

I just had the worst league experience that might make me quit for good from this game, Jungler that did well but apparently just had the desire to ruin my lane over and over again:

  1. Comes, Does a stupid dive dies, I was angry at this because i had my lane won, Very ahead in cs. Now we were even. I did tell him to not do that again.

2.Comes again pushes my lane, takes my farm 1 v 1s my enemy laner dies and when i ask why, He says thats life, some people are aholes just deal with it.

From that moment on every time he comes top he just comes to take my farm and because his champ has good wave clear he actually takes the farm, If i do anything he is there to last hit it and tells me that he enjoys it and that there is nothing i could do about it, No one in my team says anything and my report i know that it counts for jack shit.

No i cant deal with it, Because i try hard to get ahead and win my lane and if someone comes and intentionally ruins it for me, Its not something that i can just leave it be.

30 Comments

DeathBurst2 votes

I hope you reported him. But he's right, some people are assholes, deal with it. Mainly by not reacting, because that's what they want, and by reporting him in the end.

Arcane Azmadi1 votes

Exactly. The way to "deal with it" is to get him removed from the game.

Now if only Riot were good enough to actually do this...

DeathBurst2 votes

They do. I regularly receive pop-up to tell me that someone I reported has been punished.

Arcane Azmadi1 votes

I thought they removed that feature? At least, I HOPE they removed that feature, because I don't think I've gotten one of those pop-ups in a year or more, and I'd HATE to think that some of the scum I've reported have been allowed to continue playing after the bullshit they pulled.

But then again, I play on OCE, and Riot OCE completely suck. They literally cannot do ANYTHING right.

DeathBurst1 votes

I received 2 in a row not 1 month ago, so it's definitely still there. Keep in mind that it's only the last report that receives a pop-up, not all the persons who reported a punished player, and I had long periods of time without receiving any.

LordGeovanni1 votes

must be nice in eu

DeathBurst1 votes

Well, I just got another one tonight ^^'

Not sure it's a good thing though, because I had an awful game with people trash-talking each other to hell. Reported them in the end, and while I was in the queue for the next match, I got the infamous pop-up.

LordGeovanni1 votes

ive been on this game for 5 years im only sure ive seen one of those once if it has happened again twice is the maximum

HI FRlEND2 votes

LoL is the perfect place for trolls because you cant leave. any other game if someone is running around like an idiot and messing up the game, you can just leave. in LoL you are stuck with them for 20 mins. and the trolls love it.

Totalwanabe1 votes

simple solution practice last hitting.

iknowisuckSORRY2 votes

{quoted}

simple solution practice last hitting.

Are you for real?

xXI3ADI3OYXx1 votes

some people dont realise their opinion isnt worth 2 cents...if ur the one doing all the work just to see your kill stolen then thats just one greedy scum. he had no reason being there period. thats y i always call lane first, most time so far i didnt get any complications other than the random newbie not knowing or its a possible bot who dont answer back when told.

Scary Door1 votes

If we had an actual tribunal/peer review of what is going on in more games then perhaps players, such as the one you described, would be removed. Sadly, we are left with an automated system that only targets key words, phrases and/or attempts to detect excessive intentional feeding.

Passive-aggressive behavior and various other toxic maneuvers are unable to be punished by a machine. Until the Tribunal returns, which will likely be never, this type of behavior will continue. The only thing you can hope for is that this guy will eventually slip up, say a few magic words and get punished by the automated system.

DeathBurst4 votes

You severely misunderstand how machine learning works. It can detect far more subtle things than what you think. It just needs enough data to learn first, but with a game such as LoL with millions of games everyday, that's not really an issue.

A Tribunal would be nice for a few corner cases, but the automated system is already pretty good.

Scary Door1 votes

{quoted}

You severely misunderstand how machine learning works. It can detect far more subtle things than what you think. It just needs enough data to learn first, but with a game such as LoL with millions of games everyday, that's not really an issue.

A Tribunal would be nice for a few corner cases, but the automated system is already pretty good.

Defend the system all you like. There are ways around it and only the dumbest of the dumb get caught.

The system has yet to punish people for passive-aggressive behavior or other infractions that are certainly reportable but not detectable per se. Examples...

  1. Following a jungler around and stealing their camps or just outright stealing jungle camps on the opposite side of jungle... I've witnessed this a few times in the last month---sure it's not every game and it may not be the most common occurrence, but it happens.

  2. Someone gives up first blood, a teammate types "good job", "gj", etc. Relatively benign, but still asshole behavior.

  3. "gg ez" -- One of my friends insists upon typing "gg ez" after every game, doesn't say much else but he's one of those competitive douchebags that loves to rub it in. Never punished. Been doing it for at least a year. This is one that your vaunted machine learning process should have ironed out by now.

  4. Usage of ulternate spellings, changing characters to insult other players. "Yew Shure r a st00p1d ph4gg0t, K|11 Urzelf Yew w0r7h13zz s4ck 0f sh|t." Still gets the message across. A human would recognize that on sight, machine learning.. not so much. "but", you say, "how often do people do that?" Answer: All the time. Sure, not to the exaggerated extent I just showed, but they do it.

One of the appealing things about League when I started playing in August 2011 was the Tribunal system and the fact that your peers decided what was acceptable behavior for the community. Sure, there were toxic people back then, but far fewer than now and they were dealt with far more abruptly---with a few exceptions.

DeathBurst2 votes

There are ways around it and only the dumbest of the dumb get caught.

Machine learning is not just string processing and checking if you said a few bad words or known-in-advance sentences... It's taking a whole lot of cases known to be problematic (through reports), and automatically finding the similarities between them to learn what is the problem in those cases. Then you can look at a new game and decide if there is the same problem in it. There isn't a fixed set of stuff the system can detect, it can adapt dynamically if players start to report different things.

You're never punished for one single game, though. Seeing the same behavior exhibited by different persons a few times in the same month proves nothing. And people still have to do something bad BEFORE being punished, you can't just guess they will be bad in the future and remove them beforehand. So even if the system was perfect, or even if there was a Tribunal, there would still be games with flamers and ragers.

  1. If they actively follow the jungler, that's dumb easy to detect. If they "steal" on the other side of the map, a bit harder, 'cause laners can have good reasons to do the same, but if they are doing it on purpose all game long, that's not too hard either.

  2. Easily detectable, just not serious enough to be punishable for just that.

  3. Same thing, you even admit it yourself, it's damn easy to detect. If your "friend" has not been punished yet, it's not a problem of detection, it's just that it's not considered serious enough.

  4. Alternate spelling is not a problem, especially if people do it often, as you claim it. As I told in my first post, machine learning is pretty powerful, it just needs enough examples to understand what's the problem. But something as straightforward as alternate spelling is, once again, damn easy. You can detect that "st00p1d" is an insult just the same way that you detect "stupid" is an insult to begin with.

Sure, there were toxic people back then, but far fewer than now and they were dealt with far more abruptly

Riot said that's not true. I never played when the Tribunal was active, but as far as I am concerned, negativity and toxicity have decreased since I started playing. There could be plenty of reasons for that outside of just toxicity decreasing in general, that would make my experience not representative, but still... I tend to believe Riot, 'cause from what I can see, I have no reason not to.

LordGeovanni1 votes

gg = good game if you say anything else about the game instead of gg you are pretty much labled as toxic when a good game is an opinion not a greeting
ez = if you beleive the game was easy its your right to express so people who want to get insulted by every little thing would do well to invest in a therapist

DeathBurst2 votes

That's not good sportsmanship, and I personally report it as "unsportsmanlike". The "Summoner Code" says that you have to be "Humble in Victory, Gracious in Defeat". Saying "gg ez" isn't exactly that.

Now it's your right to disagree and to honor those players or just do nothing at all. But if enough people think and do like me, the system will start to recognize it and punish it. And I think a Red said a few months ago that it was already the case. (Not sure, though, don't quote me on that.)

LordGeovanni1 votes

if the game was easy and you say it was easy how is that unsportsman like. 'Calling it like it is' is just that 'calling it like it is. if you feel like you need to get hurt over that thats you. its not like any one is saying get gud scrub. that would be unsportsman like how you feel the game was for you isnt an insult on people insulting people is an insult on people.

DeathBurst1 votes

There is a difference between being unsportsmanlike and being insulting.

Saying the game was easy, even if it's true, it's arrogant and not "humble in victory".

But in the end, say what you want, and I'll do what I want, and everyone will be happy. Just don't be too surprised if the system penalize you one day.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Arrogance is announcing being better than some one when you have no evidence not pointing out something that already happened

DeathBurst1 votes

What you describe is definitely arrogance, but that's not the only meaning of the word.

I just checked in the Collins to be sure, since I'm not a native speaker, and at "arrogant", you also find, beside the meaning you proposed, "overbearingly proud", or "acting in an unpleasant way because one believes he's more important than others". That's definitely fitting to the situation at hand.

More importantly, even if arrogance wasn't precisely the right word, you should realize how and why this is not a nice and pleasant behavior, and you shouldn't resort to technicalities to argue your point of view. Despite the saying, being technically correct is not the best kind of correct, especially when human relations are concerned.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Human relations based on feelings are deeply flawed because not everyone feels at the same intensity. What one person may not even bat an eye at another may find enough to kill a person. Which is why things are judged based on fact and what things mean rather than what one party or the other may feel.

DeathBurst1 votes

Human relations based on feelings are deeply flawed

So what, we should all behaves like robots? Good luck convincing the whole society about it.

Which is why things are judged based on fact and what things mean rather than what one party or the other may feel.

Have you heard about mitigating circumstances? About defamation? Do you know you can be punished for insulting someone? There are plenty of cases where the intent and the feelings of the involved parties are taken into account, even in official trials. And even more in day to day life. Things are not black and white.

ModPrandine1 votes

{quoted}

gg = good game if you say anything else about the game instead of gg you are pretty much labled as toxic when a good game is an opinion not a greeting

GG by itself won't get you punished. It's been my experience that the people who claim that they were banned for saying "gg" were in fact actually punished for being verbally abusive jerks in the chat and just happened to have included a "gg" in there somewhere.

ez = if you beleive the game was easy its your right to express so people who want to get insulted by every little thing would do well to invest in a therapist

While that is true that is is your right to express your feelings (in a respectful manner I might add) saying ez or ggez is still considered unsportsmanlike.

HI FRlEND1 votes

you severely overestimate machine learning. their is no way for a computer program to judge intent. and that is what you need to catch trolls.

DeathBurst4 votes

I'm a computer scientist, not working directly on machine learning myself, but I have a fair background about it. You don't need to judge intent to catch trolls, the judging part is made by people who report. The computer only need to recognize that the intent is the same in the game it's reviewing as in that old game which was flagged by reports.

And modern automated methods are great at recognizing patterns. Again, they don't need to understand what the patterns mean, they just need to detect and match them.

HI FRlEND2 votes

might work if the reports were any kind of reliable way to judge. but i bet there are 10 false reports on people just having bad games for each actual intentional feeder. i wonder what that is doing to the machine learning?

DeathBurst2 votes

Yeah, that's a good question, and that could be a problem, but there are solutions around it. For instance, bootstrapping the system with some replays manually reviewed by specialists, or tell to the system to use 3 categories: feeder/bad game/unsure, and periodically review games flagged as unsure, change them to the right category, and then the system can use them to improve so there can be less and less of them as time passes by.

And as I said previously, I have a fair background, but I'm no expert, these are just 2 generic and easy as hell solutions to this kind of problem. There are people whose job it is to think about that all day every day, and who can probably find a much more elegant solution in the specific context of League. You should trust that people are competent at their job, before trying to find all the potential problems.

HI FRlEND1 votes

well as an occasional intentional feeder myself i have some insight into the flaws in the system. i have intentionally fed dozens of times and have never yet been punished for it.

if they do catch me someday i will not be angry but will tip my hat to them for a job well done. but so far their machine learning seems not up to the task.

i am sure they are thinking about it all day though. and maybe one of these days they will come up with something that actually works. i will trust in that.

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