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Need to talk with Keyru, or other Rioter involved in Player Behavior/Discussion

Doctor Riffinn··4 votes·1,483 views

Please don't say "Create a support ticket."

I've been through that ringer too many times, it does not work.

I would like to be in contact with a Rioter who has been active on the forums. @Keyru please respond.

EDIT 2: There are certain parts of this chat log that, since there are no timestamps or messages from other people, seem like they are related, and therefore negative, but they actually aren't.

Example:

Doctor Riffinn: well, game's already over unfortunately. Doctor Riffinn: because you one trick gp. Doctor Riffinn: not zed xD

It looks like I said "The game is already over unfortunately, because you one trick GP, not zed xD"

When in reality, Zed had told me that he wasn't trolling and he was being sarcastic, so my response was "Well the game is already over unfortunately." Then he said that he thought the enemy Syndra was scripting because she was dodging all of his Q's. To which my response was "Because you one trick GP, not zed xD" (Our zed had previously stated that he was a GP one trick, and was angry that our top laner had taken GP.) So I was simply saying that he one tricks GP, not Zed, so it doesn't mean someone is scripting if they can dodge his abilities on an off champion. There are a few more instances like this, if you find a sequence of messages that seem negative, please ask about them and I will tell you whether or not they were related or separated. Context DOES matter. Especially because some messages I was responding to something in all chat, or was responding to a joke with a joke.

EDIT: I've been asked to post the chat logs. I'm also posting a link to a tweet where I've uploaded a 1 minute video showing me reviewing the Player Report Card, just for proof of the validity. I don't know how else to put a video link on here, I'm not trying to promote my twitter or anything.

https://twitter.com/RiffinnTwitch/status/818118983098519557

The link to the chat log is in the tweet, but here's the chat log alone:

Game 1 Doctor Riffinn: yes Doctor Riffinn: I do. Doctor Riffinn: strong pls Doctor Riffinn: Yes I do. Doctor Riffinn: i need the clear speed to not be unusually slow Doctor Riffinn: all junglers should be leashed. Doctor Riffinn: I did. Doctor Riffinn: im going to say this now, and never again Doctor Riffinn: listen to my pings. Don't ping me. If you do that, we should win. Doctor Riffinn: why Doctor Riffinn: You're gangplank Doctor Riffinn: you're going to get ganked. Doctor Riffinn: Why would you afk Doctor Riffinn: yes Doctor Riffinn: YOU'RE GANGPLANK Doctor Riffinn: YOU'RE GOING TO GET GANKED Doctor Riffinn: How could I Doctor Riffinn: I cant. Doctor Riffinn: or Doctor Riffinn: because it's khazix Doctor Riffinn: and he's an extremely op jungler. Doctor Riffinn: so Doctor Riffinn: learn to play alone then. Doctor Riffinn: i dont understand people who play adc or things like gp Doctor Riffinn: and then get angry when they get camped. Doctor Riffinn: you literally asked for it. Doctor Riffinn: If you pick gangplank Doctor Riffinn: you will get camped Doctor Riffinn: and dove Doctor Riffinn: repeatedly. Doctor Riffinn: lol what. Doctor Riffinn: you're yasuo, you can't have fun xD Doctor Riffinn: also Doctor Riffinn: anyone think shyvana is a useless jungler? Doctor Riffinn: i dont think he did... Doctor Riffinn: oh i thought you meant gp was just a one trick champ in general. Doctor Riffinn: Which is true Doctor Riffinn: if you dont one trick gp Doctor Riffinn: dont play him Doctor Riffinn: lol Doctor Riffinn: well gg, please make sure to report zed and gp. Gp rage quitting and zed has said in chat that he's trolling. Doctor Riffinn: no one scripts in this elo. Doctor Riffinn: and syndra scripts are worthless lol Doctor Riffinn: "just cause i've been trolling don't mean I aint" Doctor Riffinn: i mean Doctor Riffinn: it kinda seems like you are low key. Doctor Riffinn: you think someone is scripting in silver. Doctor Riffinn: well, game's already over unfortunately. Doctor Riffinn: because you one trick gp. Doctor Riffinn: not zed xD Doctor Riffinn: welp Doctor Riffinn: anyone else want to kill themselves? Doctor Riffinn: I mean Doctor Riffinn: you're right gp Doctor Riffinn: it's just Doctor Riffinn: a gigantic portion of it Doctor Riffinn: is you. Doctor Riffinn: like you're not 100% Doctor Riffinn: more like 80% Doctor Riffinn: yep, that's how the game works. Doctor Riffinn: if someone afk's at the start Doctor Riffinn: someone with more deaths than them Doctor Riffinn: is more at fault. Doctor Riffinn: :) Doctor Riffinn: gangplank didn't you say Doctor Riffinn: you're learning gp? Doctor Riffinn: learning a champion in ranked Doctor Riffinn: is trolling Doctor Riffinn: yeah ok open mid Doctor Riffinn: yes you're right that's technically true xD Doctor Riffinn: nice philosophical cop out Doctor Riffinn: lol... You have no kills or assists Doctor Riffinn: tells me that im at least attempting to contribute. Doctor Riffinn: you are not. Doctor Riffinn: Also you literally spamming in all chat Doctor Riffinn: that you're tilted and afk. Doctor Riffinn: blitz Doctor Riffinn: please just open mid Doctor Riffinn: unfortunate game. Doctor Riffinn: no it's not. Doctor Riffinn: ? Doctor Riffinn: No it's not. Doctor Riffinn: ??? Doctor Riffinn: You realize that Doctor Riffinn: like a hundred games a day Doctor Riffinn: are open mid in high elo Doctor Riffinn: that's an extremely common occurrence Doctor Riffinn: yeah.. and anyone that reports that is just a jerk Doctor Riffinn: so Doctor Riffinn: you're claiming that OTHER people Doctor Riffinn: should be reported Doctor Riffinn: when you literally raqe quit your lane Doctor Riffinn: and then you come back and say that because we want to end the game Doctor Riffinn: that you trolled Doctor Riffinn: we're reportable xD Doctor Riffinn: Get this guys lol Doctor Riffinn: gp says Doctor Riffinn: that since he rage quit lane, and therefore we want to just move on Doctor Riffinn: he's now coming back, and saying that we're giving up and should be reported xD Doctor Riffinn: Is this like Doctor Riffinn: just a skill check? Doctor Riffinn: xD Doctor Riffinn: " Doctor Riffinn: lol Doctor Riffinn: anything is reportable dude. Doctor Riffinn: literally anything. Doctor Riffinn: anything that your team doesn't like Doctor Riffinn: is reportable Doctor Riffinn: if you make someone upset in any way Doctor Riffinn: that's reportable. Doctor Riffinn: That is literally the standard Doctor Riffinn: ?? Doctor Riffinn: no, it actually is. Doctor Riffinn: it 100% is reportable and riot has gone on record saying that they will uphold a punishment Doctor Riffinn: based on that. Doctor Riffinn: I can show you email records Doctor Riffinn: hard proof. Doctor Riffinn: There ARE no lines Doctor Riffinn: that's the point. Doctor Riffinn: gg

85 Comments

Jo0o4 votes

Rioters do occasionally respond to these PB&M forum threads, but usually only when they're proving a liar wrong or otherwise weighing in on a topic that feels important for them to participate in.

If you want to catch a Rioter, you should probably say what your issue actually is in the opening post so that they know.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

My issue is an account suspension that was unwarranted. If I create a support ticket, I will get a (most likely) a bot that sends me a very generic message that essentially says "You were reported and you were punished. We are upholding the punishment." Regardless of the fact that the chat logs are not toxic, harassment, or anything report worthy. I've tried it before in other instances, it took me at best 3 days to get into contact with 1 real person who would even give the SLIGHTEST explanation of the decision.

I want all interaction with Riot Support from here on out to be publicly visible, so that if anything unfair or unwarranted occurs, it's not only seen by myself.

Ambient Snow3 votes

In other words, you were toxic you got suspended you felt it was in fair. And now you want to become a forum idol by having a riot member basically call you out and prove you wrong because you were toxic and deserved the suspension.

K...

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

That's an assumption, and negative way of looking at the situation. In other words, I was NOT toxic, I got reported by 1 person (who the rest of the team reported) and that 1 report from 1 game caused a 2 week suspension.

"That's not how it works, you get chat restricted first."

Correct. This was quite literally my first game off of a chat restriction. I understand that the system is essentially "Watching me" more closely (which is wrong in itself but that's a different conversation), but that doesn't mean that a false report should be treated as a truthful one. I "served my time" with a chat restriction, I shouldn't be punished again without doing anything wrong again.

Did I speak? Yes. Was I toxic? No.

There was a rage quitter/afk in my game, who harassed me specifically. i did not insult him, or rage at him, but I did speak to him. Speaking isn't against the rules, so I should be allowed to speak with him. He blamed me for the game, and for his afking. And he reported me. He was the only one who reported me. I added everyone else on my team on my smurf and all of them agreed that I didn't do anything wrong or toxic that game. I also didn't have any ISSUE with anyone else that game and they had zero reason to report me.

The "14 Day Suspension" pop up that happens when you log in again showed literally ONLY that game. No other game. I've copied those chat logs into a google doc, and recorded video of the report card to prove there was only 1 game involved, and I'm not falsifying anything.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

Did I speak? Yes. Was I toxic? No.

Would you mind posting those logs here? We certainly can't change it, but we can help determine what negative behavior resulted in the punishment if there is any. Players frequently think they aren't being negative when they are in some way, such as threatening to report.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

I will post them, I'll edit the original post.

One thing though: "Threatening to report" is negative, such as a player saying "If you don't group mid, I'm reporting you for inting."

However, saying that you are going to report someone in an extremely obvious case isn't toxic, and should not be punishable. Example: If someone rage quits their lane, and flames in all chat, quite literally stating that he is afking because of whatever reason, me saying in all chat "Please report him for afking, thanks" Isn't being negative.

LostFr0st1 votes

It only takes one report to trigger the system. More reports are unnecessary.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

Well, then that 1 report should always be first reviewed to see if it's valid before issuing any punishment based off of it.

I know there's a system of essentially, if someone falsely reports others all the time, their reports will be largely ignored, but that doesn't mean someone can report falsely but not do it very often.

LostFr0st2 votes

If I sent 9 reports of 4=7 it's just going to read all 9 and say false, false, false... etc. It doesn't matter how many false or positive ones are sent for the same game, it's the same game. What's in the logs is what matters, people are punished based on content.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

I don't know if that can be possibly true, seeing as how the system is automated.

LostFr0st2 votes

The rioter that designed the system told people so on the boards. If you want I can dig it up.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

It may very well be true that the game is simply flagged, and 1 report for 1 game is the same as 9 reports for 1 game. (I mean that's utter horse shit if that's how it works, but whatever.)

But that doesn't have anything to do with the validity of those reports. I've read somewhere that a human being is always directly involved with any PERMANENT Suspensions, but that doesn't apply to chat bans, or 2 week suspensions. Which lead to permanent suspensions. And if you contest a permanent suspension, the response is always "Well this wasn't an isolated incident, you had a 2 week ban and 2 chat restrictions to serve as warning." Even if the trigger for the permaban was illegitimate.

Meaning that, if you consistently talk a lot in game, no matter whether or not what you say is right or wrong, you will eventually become an intersection of false reports and the system's math, and then the final decision of PermaBan is upheld by previously false automated decisions.

It's kind of like a life insurance agency poisoning you and then denying you coverage because "you have a pre-existing condition."

Obviously a bit of a silly example but... the point is there.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

I've read somewhere that a human being is always directly involved with any PERMANENT Suspensions

This isn't the case with the Instant Feedback System.

Even if the trigger for the permaban was illegitimate.

No, if your punishment was an error they will remove it. I looked at the logs you provided, and you were consistently negative throughout the entire match. If you just came off a chat restriction it doesn't look like you learned anything from it, which is why you've been temporarily banned.

I have a lot of Riot resources if you want to learn more about how reports and the IFS works, though usually people that think the system is broken have no interest in doing so;

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/reports-how-do-they-work

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/unobngtr-how-player-behavior-penalties-affect-hextech-crafting?comment=00000000000000010001000200000000000000000001

http://boards.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/announcements/L65wrRYe-player-behaviour-faq-updated-for-instant-feedback

*Edit for punishment tier

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

Being a little negative sometimes is not going to get anyone punished, Riot understands that everyone is like that sometimes. It's people that are constantly creating a negative environment for the other players that's an issue.

"Negative" is absolutely the correct term here. I do not think you are intentionally trying to ruin the game for other people and being "toxic", but acting this way in a majority of your games builds up a case against you that shows the community as a whole does not want to put up with it.

Did you not question your prior punishments? When you received a chat restriction you should've come here and figured out what the problem was instead of ignoring it.

You're saying if I'm not optimistic about a game, I should be punished

Don't put words in my mouth, I don't appreciate it. It's not about not being positive, it's about consistently being negative. Most players hardly chat at all, if you find that you're frequently calling out your teammates after a mistake or threatening people with reports, I recommend not using chat; keep it to useful and/or positive communication only.

*Edit for punishment tier

ModUlanopo2 votes

There's also the fact that, even had they only sent him one game log due to space reasons, Player Support could easily have brought up other games. They might not have done so and he should request them.

ModUlanopo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Riffinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=XF65EMdW,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000007,timestamp=2017-01-08T21:26:50.310+0000)

I have the right to be negative. If I'm not toxic, I have the right to everything else.

I'll grant you this. It's your definition of non-toxic that is causing the problem.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

Your definition of toxic equates to negativity. They are one and the same to you.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

Also, sending in 9 reports of 4=7 COULD in fact get someone in trouble. What "reads" the reports and doles out punishments is an automated system, that simply finds the common denominator in games where a report was issued, and the chat logs involved.

Meaning, in a completely theoretical instance, if you reported someone and said 4=7 in the report note every time, and they spoke in a similar way every time, that puts them in line for a punishment potentially.

Now, just you as one person sending in a troll report won't ever do anything. But think of how many millions of people play league, just on one server. Think of the portion of people who report falsely, whether just trolling with "4=7" or simply reporting someone they didn't like. Think of people, like myself, who talk a lot in game, and many people find "Annoying" even though nothing I'm saying is toxic. Being "Annoying" isn't banworthy, and you can't legitimately report someone simply because you didn't want them to talk. If WHAT they say isn't objectionable, they are allowed to say it. If you don't want to hear it, you can mute them, but players are allowed to freely use chat if they avoid objectionable content. There isn't a clause of "if someone on your team finds you personally annoying, you're required to stop talking or you will be banned."

Now think of how often those 2 things intersect. Troll/False reports, and players that are simply vocal in game, and therefore a bigger target.

The system punishes those intersections, because it sees the common denominator that eventually develops of "Player speaks a lot in game" and "Player gets reported". I'm sure there are more factors involved that just how frequently you speak, but an automated system can not accurately assess "Negativity" "Toxicity" or any varying degrees thereof. It's based on math, not morals.

LostFr0st1 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm] c'mon man... don't take the 4=7 literally... It's a machine learning system, so it 'gets smarter' as it reviews cases. They also perform random manual checks on cases the system did to make sure it's working accurately.

Many millions of reports over many years were used to make and calibrate the system, and it's based off of the collective beliefs and codes of the players in NA. It also changes as the players send in reports of what is and isn't acceptable once it validates a report. It's not a code of conduct Riot pulled out of nowhere.

If someone put 4=7 in the report comments it wouldn't do jack squat. The comments are there so that in cases that are harder to find (such as botting, scripting, or inting) can be more easily detected. That way they know what to fine-tune the scan for; checking the game for that and then seeing of the report was false or not.

Talking isn't reportable, neither is being annoying. Going against the summoner's code IS reportable. Being neutral isn't. It's in the EULA everyone agrees to when they make an account and every patch thereafter. What's in the chat logs you posted is repeated verbal harassment of teammates, and griefing (wanting to ff 'cause not winning then accusing teammates of being 'just silver' since they don't ff for you) not 'just talking.' Source: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/kpFglvEY-24-game-chat-restriction-for-what-exactly-well-played-riot-well-played?comment=0011

Doctor Riffinn2 votes

That's a long way to say "The Summoners Code is based off of Mob Rule"

The majority of players are awful. So the system is awful because it's based off of the players reports. Simple as that.

There is absolutely no harassment in the chat logs, please show what you think is "Harassing" anyone. And there is no griefing either. I am allowed to want to surrender because we had an afk and therefore were losing. And I never accused them of being "just silver" when they didn't ff. I just checked, the phrase "just silver" is literally not there.

I think you need to analyze what you think "harassment" is.

Seems like people believe "If you said something to someone that they didn't want to hear, you're harassing them." And that's an entitled and immature approach to the situation.

Harassment is defined as "aggressive pressure or intimidation."

You show me even ONE example of anything aggressively pressuring, or intimidating.

Asking for a surrender is not aggressive, saying that someone should be reported because they intentionally ruined the game is not intimidating.

Doctor Riffinn: blitz Doctor Riffinn: please just open mid Doctor Riffinn: unfortunate game.

Tell me how that ^ is aggressive at all? How is it even pressuring? Is it intimidating? Saying please? Saying that the game was simply unfortunate?

Negativity is a part of life. You can not be both truthful and positive all the time.

If GP rage quits and afk's in base, any statement addressing that WILL BE NEGATIVE. It was a negative action. The difference in whether or not it's "Toxic" is to what extent it was negative.

"Fuck you asshole, kill yourself, im reporting you for fucking afking you bitch"

is an extreme extent of negativity. I would say it's report worthy.

Doctor Riffinn: lol... You have no kills or assists Doctor Riffinn: tells me that im at least attempting to contribute. Doctor Riffinn: you are not. Doctor Riffinn: Also you literally spamming in all chat Doctor Riffinn: that you're tilted and afk.

Is possibly the most polite form of negativity possible. It's stating a fact. That fact is negative, because he took a negative action. But I am adding zero negativity to the situation, I'm simply stating the situation. That should NOT be report worthy at all.

And I know, the typical response to this situation is:

"Well if someone is being negative, just mute them and don't talk to them."

But do you not see the ethical problem inherent in that statement?

Someone ELSE is abusing chat, so I am no longer ALLOWED to use chat, which I did NOT abuse.

It's quite literally saying "If you acknowledge someone else's wrongdoing, you may as well have done it yourself."

Why on earth should MY ability to chat be taken away when SOMEONE ELSE did something wrong? And that decision is based upon the opinion of the very person who committed the wrong doing? What kind of twisted logic is that?

LostFr0st2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Riffinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=XF65EMdW,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-08T17:49:45.639+0000)

That's a long way to say "The Summoners Code is based off of Mob Rule"

The majority of players are awful. So the system is awful because it's based off of the players reports. Simple as that.

Right, it's 'awful' because you got punished, sounds legit. Most people haven't even seen a chat restriction before, so your statement is blatantly untrue.

There is absolutely no harassment in the chat logs, please show what you think is "Harassing" anyone. And there is no griefing either. I am allowed to want to surrender because we had an afk and therefore were losing. And I never accused them of being "just silver" when they didn't ff. I just checked, the phrase "just silver" is literally not there.

oh really?

Doctor Riffinn: im going to say this now, and never again Doctor Riffinn: listen to my pings. Don't ping me. If you do that, we should win. [] Doctor Riffinn: no one scripts in this elo. Doctor Riffinn: and syndra scripts are worthless lol Doctor Riffinn: "just cause i've been trolling don't mean I aint" Doctor Riffinn: i mean Doctor Riffinn: it kinda seems like you are low key. Doctor Riffinn: you think someone is scripting in silver.

^ what's this then?

I think you need to analyze what you think "harassment" is.

Seems like people believe "If you said something to someone that they didn't want to hear, you're harassing them." And that's an entitled and immature approach to the situation.

Harassment is defined as "aggressive pressure or intimidation."

You show me even ONE example of anything aggressively pressuring, or intimidating.

good: harassment (either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/harassment

and proof:

Game 1 [] Doctor Riffinn: You're gangplank Doctor Riffinn: you're going to get ganked. Doctor Riffinn: Why would you afk Doctor Riffinn: yes Doctor Riffinn: YOU'RE GANGPLANK Doctor Riffinn: YOU'RE GOING TO GET GANKED [] Doctor Riffinn: so Doctor Riffinn: learn to play alone then. Doctor Riffinn: i dont understand people who play adc or things like gp Doctor Riffinn: and then get angry when they get camped. Doctor Riffinn: you literally asked for it. Doctor Riffinn: If you pick gangplank Doctor Riffinn: you will get camped Doctor Riffinn: and dove Doctor Riffinn: repeatedly. [] Doctor Riffinn: oh i thought you meant gp was just a one trick champ in general. Doctor Riffinn: Which is true Doctor Riffinn: if you dont one trick gp Doctor Riffinn: dont play him Doctor Riffinn: lol Doctor Riffinn: well gg, please make sure to report zed and gp. Gp rage quitting and zed has said in chat that he's trolling. [] Doctor Riffinn: well, game's already over unfortunately. Doctor Riffinn: because you one trick gp. Doctor Riffinn: not zed xD [] Doctor Riffinn: I mean Doctor Riffinn: you're right gp Doctor Riffinn: it's just Doctor Riffinn: a gigantic portion of it Doctor Riffinn: is you. Doctor Riffinn: like you're not 100% Doctor Riffinn: more like 80% [] Doctor Riffinn: gangplank didn't you say Doctor Riffinn: you're learning gp? Doctor Riffinn: learning a champion in ranked Doctor Riffinn: is trolling []

And I know, the typical response to this situation is:

"Well if someone is being negative, just mute them and don't talk to them."

But do you not see the ethical problem inherent in that statement?

Someone ELSE is abusing chat, so I am no longer ALLOWED to use chat, which I did NOT abuse.

You are allowed to chat. You aren't allowed to act like a cheese grater on other people's eyes in chat by being constantly negative.

Your move.

Doctor Riffinn2 votes

I like the format of your response. Legit.

So lets get down to business.

  1. "Awful" is, admittedly an opinion, pure and simple. However, it is well documented that the general consensus among League players is that the community is VERY bad. That's not me being salty, that's something that has been around for a long longer than I've been playing. You can't pretend it doesn't exist, or that it's completely untrue.

Also, your statement of "most people haven't even seen a chat restriction before" is completely without foundation. Riot's "statistics" on the matter are... at best questionable. It's kind of odd how they say basically NO ONE ever get punished, but yet there's a massive, active forum filled with people who have.

My personal belief is that Lyte set the statistics up, that they are not true, and they're part of a movement that tries to mentally manipulate the playerbase. it's not as crazy conspiracy theorist "tin foil hat" as it sounds. People are social beings, if someone believes that no one else does what they are doing, they are more likely to stop that behavior. Whether or not it's actually TRUE. Which sounds EXACTLY like something Lyte would do. Dude was practically obsessed with trying to get inside the heads of the playerbase and figure out a way to make them act how he thought was best.

  1. I said that no one scripts in silver. because pretty much no one does lol. Mainly because: If you're scripting, you're likely no longer in silver! Furthermore, this doesn't support your claim that I accused my team of being "just silver because they didn't want to ff". This statement had zero relation to surrendering the game whatsoever, and was also not insulting anyone by calling them silver or "just silver". I said there aren't really scripters in silver. Because there aren't. Nice try though, false equivocation is usually pretty easy to get away with. But I do try to pay attention.

  2. Your definition of harassment is both incorrect due to context as well as it being incomplete. If you follow the link you provided, the actual FULL definition is:

"n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious. Such activities may be the basis for a lawsuit if due to discrimination based on race or sex, a violation on the statutory limitations on collection agencies, involve revenge by an ex-spouse, or be shown to be a form of blackmail ("I'll stop bothering you, if you'll go to bed with me"). The victim may file a petition for a "stay away" (restraining) order, intended to prevent contact by the offensive party. A systematic pattern of harassment by an employee against another worker may subject the employer to a lawsuit for failure to protect the worker. (See: harass, sexual harassment)"

Which, you conveniently left out the "including threats and demands" of which there are none in my chat logs, so my actions don't qualify, as well as the purposes "including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious." Which, again, none of which are present in my logs.

"But wait!" you say "Don't be ridiculous! Clearly that full definition can't apply to a VIDEO GAME, you know what I mean!"

You're right, that definition CANT be applied in this situation. because that definition is a very specific definition for legal purposes. And League of legends doesn't operate within the legal realm (the TOS takes care of that), nor am I levying a legal response to this punishment. So the definition is completely invalid. The CLOSEST you could get using your definition to something relevant to this discussion would be to "merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious".

And there is nothing in the chat logs that could possibly be construed as something that would make the GP fearful or anxious. Nor do I gain sadistic pleasure from it, nor did I intend to with anything I said.

FURTHERMORE, on the exact same page, there are MORE definitions of Harassment, which I'll address just to be thorough.

"1 the offence in England of using threatening or abusive or insulting words within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be harassed thereby: Public Order Act 1986."

obviously not relevant, but I didn't threaten anyone or insult or abuse them.

"2 conduct which may require a person to be given legal protection in terms of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. For these purposes harassment is not defined but it includes causing the person alarm or distress. "

Again, clearly not relevant as it's specifically pertaining to English law, but just for the spirit of the debate, obviously nothing I said would give reason to desire legal protection, and nothing I said would cause the gangplank alarm or distress. Distress is not the same thing as irritation or anger. Distress HAPPENS to you, Anger you feel TOWARDS something, it's a differently motivated emotion.

Basically, don't even try to pretend that I in any way was harassing people in these logs. I wasn't. You had to take a definition from a ridiculous and contextually irrelevant source and THEN cut the majority of it off to even come close to equating it to my actions. If you have to actively TRY to make someone look guilty, they most likely aren't.

  1. And finally, I love this quote:

"You aren't allowed to act like a cheese grater on other people's eyes in chat by being constantly negative. Your move."

What this boils down to is: You aren't allowed to irritate me, and I find you irritating so I'm going to falsely accuse you of harassment.

And then you try to validate that opinion by equating what you find distasteful as "being constantly negative" Which I've addressed elsewhere in this thread as completely subjective and in no way a measurable standard for behavior or punishment.

And THEN you end with "Your Move" which is a snarky way of saying you think you've put me in my place by providing "proof" that I'm in the wrong. You ended your statement about how you aren't allowed to be negative, by insulting me and then subtly gloating about your perceived point proven.

Which, you know, is very negative.

ModUlanopo2 votes

Just an FYI, Lyte started the project that led to the IFS. Hew just wasn't there when it was completed.

Doctor Riffinn2 votes

I wasn't permanently banned.

I understand what I did. But I have the fucking right to do it. It was not wrong. I did nothing wrong. This is not up for discussion, the sky is blue, gravity will make you fall, and I have the right to exercise my fucking freedom of speech. If it doesn't cross a line, I get to say it. That's how rights work.

You not liking it is LITERALLY THE POINT.

THE ENTIRE POINT.

The ultimate goal of literally everything that I do in league. All of it. Every moment. Is to nonstop, tirelessly, obsessively, zealously work until league is back to being fucking human again.

Everyone has the right to speak their mind. There are a few lines you can't cross.

Everything else is fair game.

If you don't like it, no one cares.

If you're upset, get over it.

If you're not having fun because someone was super mean, please god leave. This isn't for children.

Fucking new age kids show up years after the rest of us and tell us that we're not welcome. Jesus christ. Go make a tumblr, go read a bible, go do whatever it is that makes you think that life is about being nice and life cares how you feel, go pretend that your opinions and positions on a situation make any difference.

Life doesn't care. Doesn't care about you, and it doesn't care about me. It doesn't care about anyone. So stop stepping on my fucking toes.

I've spent way too much money on this game. I'm not going to have it fucking gated behind some wall of "You must sell your soul and spend every waking moment lying your ass off to random strangers who hold your account ransom."

I've been flamed at, screamed at, trolled, demeaned, and generally made to fucking hate my life by people in this game. I deserve fucking recompense. Everyone does.

This game literally made me toxic. I don't think I had ever yelled at anyone online before playing League. Not even once. I used to play Halo and CoD nonstop, never argued or fought with anyone. Played Starcraft, TF2, CSGO, the whole damn shebang.

Wasn't until this game that I ever once felt legitimate anger over a game that lasted for longer than the game itself.

And now I'm just expected to let it go and walk away lol. I've spent hundreds, easily close to 2 thousand dollars on this shitty game. And I get nothing for it?

Yeah. Nope. I can't deal with that one. So I'm going to continue what I've been doing for the past 3 years. I'm going to continue making posts, and literally do anything I can possibly think of until this system is changed and I get some fucking justice. I have the right to speak. You do not have the right to silence me.

5 years. Double digit accounts lost. I deserve something in return. I don't deserve to hear your whiney bullshit about your feelings. In what world does anyone actually give a shit about the other people in their game. It's just a nonstop excercise in anxiety of "please god, please please god, please let these people be just slightly less idiotic." And you sit there tense as shit, just waiting. waiting for the inevitable time where SOMEONE on your team is going to make sure that no matter what, you don't have any fun this game. And then you're going to get blamed for it. And you're going to get yelled at and no matter what, it will never stop. Reports wont stop it. The tribunal won't stop it. Nothing will ever. Ever. Ever. stop it.

And you're supposed to move on xD

Fucking move on. On. On to what? What exactly? The next game?

Oh joy, oh happy day, another episode of Deal or No Deal where you spend 40 minutes pressing the button and the only 2 choices are "Incredibly difficult victory, an astounding exercise in patience and pretending like you don't hate the 4 people you're playing with to the depths of your soul" and "Welp, you've just wasted 40 minutes of your life because someone thought they were too good to take simple directions, so all of your efforts meant literally nothing. And also, here's some taunting from the enemy team calling you garbage and trash and to kill yourself. Thanks for playing, if you say anything against this, fuck off you're banned."

This community is shit. Every part of it. Anyone who says differently is just lying to themselves.

I'd like to just play a game without having to worry about other people's feelings and emotions, thank you very much. is that too much to ask? Why else would I play a video game. Because going out and about interacting with my fellow man is just such a delight? No, it's because Video games are not SUPPOSED to have the same rules as real life. You know why you should be able to spit and swear and curse and yell in game? Because you can't anywhere else. That's what they're for. It's an escape. It's something you can't get in reality, so you go to fantasy. And now you're trying to take that away too. You just hate anyone who doesn't think just like you. You call them toxic but you want them to suffer.

This game CREATES TOXICITY. And then punishes you for being the victim of its fucking mental ponzi scheme.

Riot created a fantastic game, baited the whole world in, crowded out all competition so no other game like it could succeed, and then they started waterboarding their players.

Well I'm tired of it. I'm tired of being fucking tortured for paying their god damn bills.

LostFr0st2 votes

Then change or /mute all. Unbind your enter key. Anything. Just stop before the perma comes, because that's where this behaviour will lead you. I'm glad you came here before the perma. I'm really glad. That means there's a chance to salvage this. It's good.

Yes, the game is competitive and stuff gets heated, that's what makes it fun. However, it doesn't give you the right to put your teammates in the dirt. The game is for kids and up. I'm not part of this 'new gen,' and I'm pretty convinced by now that we're around the same age. So lead by example and mentor them instead of flaming.

Why bother talking to people you don't want to talk to in game? Lead your llama/kitten teammates with casual pings. Just /mute all and chillax to the sweet sound of "an ally has been slain." Accept it, just let go...Karthus

Deep Terror Nami4 votes

{quoted}

That being said, there are two other points I want to touch on:

  • Automated Responses -- We do have some automated responses, but they are extremely limited in scope. The opening line in the automated response clarifies immediately that it is an automated response, and if you would like a human response, you can simply reply back to the ticket. Otherwise, all of our tickets are handled by a real-life human, which is why these kinds of mistakes do happen.
  • Copy/paste Responses -- There is no way to sugar coat this, so I'll just tell it to you straight: We do use macros in many of our responses. There are two main reasons why we do this:
  • On average, we get thousands of new tickets every single day (in NA alone), not counting the tickets that take multiple responses back and forth that get added on to this. Our goal is to make sure you get a full resolution within 24 hours of you submitting a ticket, and to hit this mark, our agents need to respond quickly. These macros are reviewed constantly to make sure that they resolve the vast majority of issues that you all have, and if it doesn't, we re-write it.
  • When answering tickets, we tend to see the same type of issue or question over and over again. Even if we customized every single response, an agent tends to get very efficient at explaining what the issue is and how to solve it. Over time, the variance between every response gets less as less as we tend to figure out what works and doesn't work and soon you end up with pre-written responses. We can absolutely make a push to ensure every response is unique, but then we encounter a trade-off: More customized response or faster response time? We have surveyed thousands of players about this, and faster response time wins out almost every single time.

A lot of information to throw at everyone, but I want to be as transparent as I can. If you have any follow-up questions, reply back and I'll do my best to answer them!

Jo0o1 votes

So, post the chat logs and let the community weigh in on them. If we agree with you that they're not worthy of punishment, we'll upvote your thread and improve your odds of getting a human Rioter's attention. If we disagree with you and tell you that they WERE worthy of punishment, well, you'll know that you don't have a leg to stand on even if you DO get a human Rioter's attention.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

I will be posting the logs shortly (after I reply to this comment), but I'd say that something can be right even if multiple people think it's wrong, and vice versa. While I agree that upvoting would help my case (very good point, kind of stupid of me to not think of that immediately), just because a few people on this forum think something is negative doesn't mean it actually is. Or at least negative worthy of a punishment.

Especially because... no offense, but there tends to be only 2 types of people on these forums: Angry people who are complaining (and usually wrong. "I should be able to call my teammate a fucking loser") and people who are incredibly over sensitive to perceived negativity, and take literally anything that's not pointedly positive as a legitimate reason for punishment.

I don't see much in the way of middle of the road rationality around here. Just being honest with my experience reading the forums.

ModUlanopo2 votes

people who are incredibly over sensitive to perceived negativity, and take literally anything that's not pointedly positive as a legitimate reason for punishment.

Are you familiar with "Demosthenes' Hierarchy of Exclusion" from the Ender's Game series? For all that it was made up for a sci-fi novel, it can actually be helpful in understanding our perspective on people who are different from us. It basically goes like this:

UTLANNING - People who are pretty much like us, but live somewhere else. We don't really have any problems coexisting with them or understanding them. If you're an American, think Canadians or British.

RAMAN - People who are different from us, but we can understand. Relations can often be complicated and misunderstandings are common. Think Japanese, Israeli or Egyptian.

VARELSE - OSC uses this to mean the enemy with whom there can be no peace, but I tend to define it as those we define as implacable enemies. In the international relations example, this would be Iranians and North Koreans.

How does this apply here? When people make statements like the one I quoted, they restrict the possibility of meaningful dialogue by defining the position of their opposition in a confrontational and dismissive way. "Incredibly oversensitive" could just as easily be turned around to "kiddies who think the anonymity of the internet gives them free licence to be a jerk." I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see that as helpful if it were applied to you.

Further, when you reduce people to a caricature, you lose the ability to communicate with them. You move them from raman to varelse, which alters your ability to coexist with them. It poisons your rhetoric.

If you want the board to work for you - as compared to people just telling you your ban was warranted - then you're going to have to adopt a less dismissive tone with regard to the people who might have different priorities and values. Their opinions and perspectives are just as valid as yours.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

I'm not intensely familiar but I've heard of it before.

While I agree with your statement, there are some points I'd like to address.

  1. My statement was entirely subjective. As in, this is my experience, what I have personally seen. it didn't imply that EVERYONE involved was ABSOLUTELY like that, or accuse them of such. It was a preface to try and avoid that extreme.

  2. You're correct, I wouldn't appreciate it if i was reduced to a similar caricature, but I believe that I am, which is precisely the issue with the report system. Everyone has had bad experiences with truly awful and toxic players. The "Kill yourself %%%got" types who go out of their way to intentionally ruin a game or to make you as miserable as possible. But there is a big big gray area between "Perfect Angel of a player" and "Hyper toxic assholes" that the 99.99 percent of players fall into, whether they think so or not. The issue is, most people come to a forum like this and analyze a post, and their internal determining process is essentially "If this person is any darker gray than I am, they are guilty". It's not based on objective "Did this person violate the rules (which is the problem with having such a lack of objective rules). It's based on how people view others outside themself, which is in all cases, inherently biased. So people are naturally inclined to condemn a person more than they are to pardon them. People's first inclination is "I would never be like that, I would never do something THAT bad", so anyone that measures any form of Gray is automatically condemned as "Toxic". It's a form of self indulgence and the driving force behind "Witch Hunting". And the entire system is based off of this.

  3. I don't mean to come off as dismissive, as if I don't care about the opinions of others. I do care about opinions, but I also distinguish that they are just that: Opinions. Not facts. Your opinion and perspective on the TOS may be just as valid as my own, but that doesn't equate to being accurate. At some point, objective truth becomes relevant, and no matter how much someone's opinion goes against it, if I have not broken the TOS, then that opinion is irrelevant to the matter at hand (of the punishement issued.)

It comes down to the same issue that plagues the us government and hate groups across the world. Does your belief in something, your opinion, equate to a right to deny someone else access to THEIR opinion? If I religiously believe that homosexuality is wrong, does that mean it IS? Does that mean gay people should be disallowed their freedom? If I believe someone is toxic, does it mean that they WERE? Does it mean they should be punished just because I think they should be?

The answer has always been simple: Your opinions and perspectives are valid so far as they don't infringe on the opinions and perspectives of someone elses. You are allowed to act until your action would prevent someone else's action.

I'm allowed to believe that homosexuality is a sin all day long, but I am NOT allowed to use that to stop them from acting on their own beliefs (that it's perfectly okay).

You are allowed to believe that any form of negativity, anything that you don't want to hear or is annoying, is banworthy and reportable, but at the point in time that your belief contradicts the actual facts, your opinion does not justify an actual punishment. Toxicity and Harassment are not subjective, and they're not beholden to opinion. I respect others opinions, but that doesn't mean I respect their belief that their opinions are just as valid as objective facts.

Because the objective facts are that I did nothing that would ever be considered harassment, or as another commenter so eloquently put it, "acting in a manner that is deliberately intended to disrupt the gaming experience".

ModUlanopo2 votes

I was pretty much with you until this point:

Because the objective facts are that I did nothing that would ever be considered harassment, or as another commenter so eloquently put it, "acting in a manner that is deliberately intended to disrupt the gaming experience".

You're blending subjective and objective. "Subjective" in respect to other people's opinions on what is and is not banworthy. "Objective" in not meeting your subjective criteria with regard to what constitutes harassment. I think you can see the conflict there.

I think the problem with your argument starts a couple of paragraphs earlier:

I'm allowed to believe that homosexuality is a sin all day long, but I am NOT allowed to use that to stop them from acting on their own beliefs (that it's perfectly okay).

You're conflating moral, legal and just in a poor analogy. If it's okay with you, I would rather use a different analogy to save time and potential miscommunication.

Riot is effectively the proprietor of a golf course. As such, they have the right to refuse service within the confines of law and ordinance. If you got into a shouting match on the course, they would be well within their right to force you to leave. If you acted out badly enough or on enough occasions, they could cancel your membership. It's even established case law that they can cancel any lifetime memberships or permanent upgrades.

Okay, so that's legal. Now for moral. Does Riot have the moral authority to censor players through punishment? I think the answer is pretty clearly yes. Not only does toxic behavior damage their business, but they also control public platforms. I think the more interesting question here is why Riot should be obligated to tolerate behavior that damages their business and reputation.

Further, shunning and banishment have long been deemed appropriate responses to people who can't meet cultural expectations. League is a purely voluntary activity - more so than most because you don't have to pay anything to play - so you are always capable of going elsewhere for your entertainment needs.

Finally, is Riot fair in how they administer punishment? I think they try really hard and do a better job than most, especially because the IFS is based on community feedback and reports. I am not familiar with any other game companies that use data gleaned from their players. That makes the system especially fair in my mind.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

I would ask that you read the other comments where I have truly OBJECTIVELY shown what is and is not harassment. There are definitions for these sorts of things. My opinion means nothing, but that's why I don't rely on it.

Also, I just went through and proved I was in compliance with both the Terms of Use and the Summoners Code in another comment. Very thoroughly.

And yes, I agree, bad analogy in terms of miscommunication, but I don't believe it's poor in terms of similarity. This is indeed a confliction of legality (the Terms of Use) and morality (what is "toxic", what should be reportable?). Although I would like to point out (and i meant to earlier) that I do not personally hold any negative opinions towards the LGBTQ community, it's simply a topic I default to because of how often I debate it with my very conservative family.

  1. I'm aware that legally speaking, Riot can literally do anything. The TOU outlines out extremely thoroughly that there is no situation ever conceived of that Riot would ever be forced to do something or disallowed to do something in a legal sense.

However, you say that Riot "pretty clearly" has the moral authority to censor players through punishment. I would totally disagree. Riot isn't a moral authority at all. Period. And while I believe certain cases of censorship to be moral, a blank check of "You have the moral authority to censor as you see fit" is utterly false.

If the question is "Why should they tolerate toxic behavior that damages their business" The next question should be "Then why has the problem only gotten worse?" Because regardless of the statistics they provide. About themselves lol. But regardless of that, the problem hasn't gotten any better in over 5 years. I've been here. In fact I would argue it's gotten worse. The only thing that has changed is that Riot keeps TELLING people that the problem is going away. It's not. They're just very good at manipulating their public image, and shutting down truthful criticism, never letting it see the light of day. It's why the only bans that ever get overturned are for Pro players, or streamers, or for the rare case of something like Adelaide Skyhart, where an unusual amount of public attention is given to it. They're not trying to do what's right, or even uphold their own policies, they only uphold their own policies if millions of people are watching to see if they do. And usually, they aren't watching. They're too busy watching LCS, or a stream.

It's foolish to think that's an accident.

  1. "shunning and banishment have long been deemed appropriate responses to people who can't meet cultural expectations."

Since when? last i checked westboro baptist church had their right to be offensive and awful upheld in the supreme court. Last I heard, Donald Trump was elected president. Last I saw, the most popular shows on TV are the ones focused solely on specifically acting outside of cultural expectations. TMZ, Jackass, pretty much everything on MTV, Hoarders, My Strange Addiction, etc etc.

There's also a lot to be said about the false mentality behind "It's free to play so you don't HAVE to pay money, so you're not ENTITLED to anything if you pay for it"

It's been well established that the Free to Play model is objectively more profitable more consistently than a pay to own model. There's also a lot to be said for putting players in the position of "You don't HAVE to pay for anything, but the game will be much less fun for you if you don't" Like having to grind for runes (or buying an ip boost) having to grind for champs (or buying them), and having to grind for rune pages (or buying them). You don't TECHNICALLY need them but jesus christ you're fucked without a prayer if you don't have them. And you would have to spend an unimaginable amount of time to spend literally nothing and have access to the same game as someone who simply payed for it.

It's not exactly fair for Riot to pretend like they actually offer a legit free to play game. because they really aren't and everyone knows it.

And as fairness goes, the community being involved in the process is the problem itself. Just like I explained earlier, it's all about shades of gray and everyone thinks they are less gray than the next person. It's basing punishment off of a major flaw in the human condition, completely guaranteeing that it will never be truly fair.

Also, other games basically have like, half a paragraph at most about behavior. It essentially says "Don't be racist or bigoted in any way, we reserve the right to ban you for whatever reason" and if you actually want to report someone, you usually have to take a screenshot and go to a website or email someone. It's actually like, a process. Which means if it's not a legit report, you're most likely not going to take the time to do it.

Without the feeling of power over others and entitlement that comes with the report system, people stop being so sensitive, or they get used to using the mute feature. So people stop raging in chat as much all together, because there's no point raging to no one. So you end up with a much less toxic community by simply refusing to acknowledge the toxicity's effect. This is the reason that NO OTHER GAME has as horrid of a community problem as league does, and NO OTHER GAME has taken this approach to fixing it.

Riot says "Don't feed the trolls" and then Riot themselves feed the trolls more than any one person ever could in a lifetime. They gave them agency, they made them feel impactful.

And then they compounded the problem by creating a culture of witch hunting where formerly positive players are now ACTIVELY LOOKING for people to report.

You can't say this isn't true, it's evidenced over and over again every single day, every single match.

The system is broken and harmful to the community of the game we love. We've got to stand up and demand it be fixed, or it will only get worse.

ModUlanopo1 votes

"I'm right because I say I'm right" is not only terrible argumentation, it won't get you anywhere.

Let me be perfectly clear. Your beliefs and perspectives are incompatible with the League community and it isn't weakness for the community to have those standards.

You don't TECHNICALLY need them but jesus christ you're fucked without a prayer if you don't have them.

Wrong. I may have spent more than a grand on this game (which is nothing compared to what I spent on WoW) and purchased exactly one champion with RP (gift card from friend in the early days). I'm within eight champions of having them all.

Without the feeling of power over others and entitlement that comes with the report system, people stop being so sensitive, or they get used to using the mute feature.

This is such utter nonsense. As in, completely ridiculous, entitled crap. Lots of other games have reporting systems. In WoW, for example, I got a suspension - my one and only - for calling someone a douchebag in a private tell, this being someone who was griefing me by killing all the quest mobs in the area and deliberately tagging them when I went to attack.

I'm not going to spend my time answering the rest of the post. There are things wrong with the system, but none of them are the things you're complaining about.

Doctor Riffinn2 votes

So, it boils down to: I haven't violated the EULA, I haven't violated any rules technically, but at the end of the day, the community not liking me is a valid reason to ban me?

It's not weakness. It's just blatant stupidity. It's the absolute degradation of justice, to call it weak would be an insult to weakness.

It's nauseating.

Doctor Riffinn2 votes

"Everyone's view is just as valid as yours! Except, your view isn't valid at all. You're not welcome."

Saying my beliefs and perspectives are incompatible with the League community is saying that the League community's beliefs and perspectives are incompatible with reality.

And news flash: I'm just as much a part of the community as you are. I have just as much right to determine what's allowed and disallowed as you are.

I just don't drink the koolaid.

ModUlanopo1 votes

You absolutely violated the EULA.

V. CODE OF CONDUCT While using the Software and playing the Game, you agree to comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. You also agree to comply with certain additional rules that govern your use of the Game (the “Code of Conduct”). The Code of Conduct is not meant to be exhaustive, and Riot Games reserves the right to modify this Code of Conduct at any time, as well as take any appropriate disciplinary measures including Account termination and deletion to protect the integrity and spirit of the Game, regardless of whether a specific behavior is listed here as prohibited. In addition to this Code of Conduct, please see the Summoner’s Code for additional guidance on exemplary game-play behavior. The following are examples of behavior that warrant disciplinary measures:

C. Harassing, stalking, or threatening any other users in the Game;

E. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including, but not limited to, language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;

That you disagree with Riot's definition of "harassing" is entirely irrelevant.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

This is literally a fucking hive mind. This is literally a miniature dytopia. I feel like I'm reading a novel. This... this is unreal. I can't believe you actually believe this.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

One last thing:

Your opinion on the report system will always come down to your worldview. Are people inherently good with a few bad apples? Or are people inherently bad with a few good examples?

I feel like you believe the former. I think a lot of people WANT to believe the former. So it's easy to demonize anyone who shows even a slight bit of propensity towards being a "bad apple".

I believe that most people are shitty. Just humans as a species are shitty. Especially in groups. A person can be good, but People? People are scared, stupid, and cruel.

And People control this system. So this system is fundamentally broken.

If you have faith in people, you won't see the system is broken.

But when people turn on you for not believing in them, the system breaks right in front of you. The system breaks you.

And I don't deserve it.

ModUlanopo2 votes

And I don't deserve it.

Maybe you do, maybe you don't. I'm not the judge of that.

I feel that the rest of this is basically arguing that the system is broken because the system "failed" you.

I feel like you believe the former.

That's not in any way accurate. I used to manage group homes for developmentally challenged adults. For a long time, my job was to go into homes on an emergency basis where the previous provider had had their license revoked. As you can imagine, the state doesn't pull your license for nothing. I bathed in human misery and cruelty for more than a decade and when I realized my worldview had started to be most like the main character from House, I found something else to do.

So, I would say I have a pretty finely tuned perspective on what lurks within the human soul. If I am optimistic, it is because I find despair counterproductive. Well, that and I'm more than arrogant enough to believe I can make a difference.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

Funny, i've always felt House was an example of the best type of person. Not something to be avoided. I would be so lucky to even come close.

PotatoGainz3 votes

I was the Zed in the game, all bull shit aside and looking completly unbiased. if 1 person is gonna get banned (for nothing i might add) ban everyone in the game. that game was hard lost at the start, everyone including my self lost lane. Gp rage quit then started talking about thats reportable. When gp left i built Ga, then said open mid and pretty much afked waiting for the 4v5 to end. everyone was toxic or at least arguing about the gp. i mean ive seen these things happen all the time in stompy games. i dont get why akali is banned and not gp lol. akali didnt say anything ban worthy

i dont know how to link screen shots but hey i was in game, this dude isnt my bud or anything. he shouldnt be banned

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

Please don't say "Create a support ticket."

I've been through that ringer too many times, it does not work.

They always respond, and it's not hard to get the ticket sent to Keyru if the subject is relevant to her. Did you not like the answer(s) PS gave you or do you think they didn't understand your ticket?

Doctor Riffinn2 votes

It takes over a full day to get a response, and the response is clearly automated. I asked for Keyru specifically because I've seen her being active on the forums and therefore I know that A: She's a real person, and B: Cares about issues related to Player Behavior/Modification.

Specifically, I found a post where she mentioned a system being worked on that would allow for ban/punishment reviews, so that tells me that the issue matters to her. It tells me that she doesn't want to simply uphold any decision made by the system just because exceptions are bad for their model.

ModUlanopo2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Riffinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=XF65EMdW,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-01-08T16:21:12.825+0000)

** It takes over a full day to get a response,** and the response is clearly automated. I asked for Keyru specifically because I've seen her being active on the forums and therefore I know that A: She's a real person, and B: Cares about issues related to Player Behavior/Modification.

(emphasis mine)

This is not a reasonable expectation and the response is not automated. The response is often boilerplate language because of the tens of thousands of nearly identical requests that come to Player Support.

It's also a Sunday, dude. Rest assured your request has been passed along and try to have some patience.

Specifically, I found a post where she mentioned a system being worked on that would allow for ban/punishment reviews, so that tells me that the issue matters to her. It tells me that she doesn't want to simply uphold any decision made by the system just because exceptions are bad for their model.

As I mention below, none of the Rioters are required to post on the boards. In fact, last I heard, they have to take the time to go through a training program before their accounts are authorized to post in red, This is partially because the boards are not an official communication platform for many topics (this would be why they have all the other tabs at the top of the page) and partially because there are any number of player behavior issues that cannot be resolved through the boards.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

I already addressed this in another comment but, basically: Yeah I know you can't judge someone well just by what they post for their job. I understand the responses are sort of copy paste, but it IS a reasonable expectation for them to analyze each situation individually. maybe they all get replied to with the same words, but they shouldn't be viewed as all the same when there are WILD differences.

Might as well just go "Alright ban reviews 1-500 in my inbox will be upheld, send this message. Ban reviews 501-504 will be repealed." without even reading them.

ModUlanopo2 votes

I think what happens is that, most of the time, the Player Support processor looks at the chat logs, sees the things that got the person banned and replies accordingly, which comes across as automated.

What I think they should do is cull a couple of choice quotes out of the logs and append them to the response, which should help people understand that their ban was justified and given a proper review.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

Agreed. Can you pull a couple of choice quotes out of the logs I was provided that would constitute "Harassment, Griefing, Toxicity" or anything else banworthy? Because I don't think they exist.

ModUlanopo2 votes

I'm not a Riot employee. I'm an Arbiter, which is a volunteer on the PB&M boards.

Much as I don't want to fall back on "create a support ticket", that's really what you should do. Ask for specifics.

If you want my take on what I can see of your chat logs, you need only ask.

Doctor Riffinn1 votes

well I do want your take on whether or not this punishment was legitimate. That's why I asked you for it xD

ModUlanopo2 votes

I think it absolutely was legitimate, even without seeing any of the other logs. As someone who speaks fluent sarcasm, I'm perfectly aware of how easy it is to be an ass to someone without being vulgar or profane.

I also use the "theater standard". If two people get into it in a theater, I don't care what they are arguing about. I just want them gone so I can get back to the movie. Similarly, if I were in that game, I would not have bothered asking you to stop, mostly because that has rarely been a viable strategy in my experience.

I would have done what I tell everyone to do in these situations: MUTE, REPORT, MOVE ON.

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votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes