Low Elo Hell

HurtSquad·May 1, 2016·2 votes·813 views

I am in low elo, I'm not complaining that I am here and I know I need to get better as a player. My problem is the system in general, I know a lot of bronze and silver players that do not belong there but can't climb do to afks, intentional feeding, and so on. I just had one last game and I guarantee nothing will be done about it because it never is. As a jg main I choose which lanes to gank/help. If you are losing lane but two other lanes are winning, I have to make the decision to help the losing lane or continue to help feed our other lanes. IF A JG DOES NOT HELP YOU, DO NOT INTENTIONALLY FEED. Rito you need to actually punish players for this because it happens a lot in low elo. Its getting to the point where I don't even want to play.

26 Comments

Gimpy89May 1, 20163 votes

"I know a lot of bronze and silver players that do not belong there but can't climb do to afks" -this has been mathematically disproven. LAW of large numbers + 5/9 chance the feeder/afk is on the enemy team.

Malix FarwinMay 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"I know a lot of bronze and silver players that do not belong there but can't climb do to afks" -this has been mathematically disproven. LAW of large numbers + 5/9 chance the feeder/afk is on the enemy team.

May have been true last season but as a solo player you have less impact then you did before and if you go with a team of good people it will carry you to where you don't belong. Basically even if you suck just get carried by some good people and you will climb. If you are good already find about 2 more people and you will climb. No matter what the situation you probably will not climb if you are solo. Need mroe example you can take a look at the solo streamers who are ranked less then they were last year just because they play solo. Funny seeing master/challenger streamers last year stuck in diamond on losing streaks lol.

HurtSquadMay 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VfAqcgLi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-01T20:39:52.909+0000)

May have been true last season but as a solo player you have less impact then you did before and if you go with a team of good people it will carry you to where you don't belong. Basically even if you suck just get carried by some good people and you will climb. If you are good already find about 2 more people and you will climb. No matter what the situation you probably will not climb if you are solo. Need mroe example you can take a look at the solo streamers who are ranked less then they were last year just because they play solo. Funny seeing master/challenger streamers last year stuck in diamond on losing streaks lol.

this is 100% true

TrulyBlandMay 1, 20163 votes

Fun fact: Mathematical laws work independantly on what Season League of Legends is currently in. All that can change is the noise, or in other words how many games are needed for the law of big numbers to "kick in".

Systematical error (like possibly not adjusting MMR of premades properly) might happen... but that's not what OP said. OP mentioned specifically that people can't climb due to afks, intentional feeding "and so on".

Gimpy89May 2, 20161 votes

exactly this^.

"Systematical error (like possibly not adjusting MMR of pre-mades properly)" The amount this will displace you from your "true rank" depends on how many people in your elo are on when you normally que. If you play at bronze-plat at peak time the system will probably give you even premades (2/2/1 v 2/2/1 and 3/2 v 3/2 ect) for 95-99% of your games due to a large player pool. However diamond+ players playing at non-peak times will often see uneven premades so they actually have to be significantly better/worse to compensate for uneven premades (game cant make even premades due to a small player pool).

I feel this is why people are saying challenger streamers are stuck in elo hell and cant climb, but this effect is so much smaller for us normal players.

aj502 OneillMay 1, 20161 votes

That's an odd equation...How would this "law of large numbers" assure the feeder/afk is on the enemy team instead of your's?

I think you just made that one up

TrulyBlandMay 1, 20163 votes

It doesn't. What it does is assure that if you play enough games, the enemy teams of all your games have had more afks/feeders than your teams (provided you're not an afk/feeder)

aj502 OneillMay 1, 20161 votes

I dunno man.

I'd think it's pretty much 50/50 either you get the troll or they do...

It's just the sheer amount of players that are either ragers/trolls/feeders/ or just not that good that will keep you from climbing solo queue if you are not FAR superior in play.

I mean 1 loss will set you back 3 wins here...And like I stated, you are BOUND to get those players on your team that you or anyone else simply cannot carry....And even if you do that time, you'll get another (or more) that you can't, and those team losses will make it so you can't climb alone.

Just by the sheer amount, or "numbers" of those players down here.

TrulyBlandMay 1, 20162 votes

But that's the thing... it's not 50/50. There are 4 random people on your team, but 5 on the enemy's. If every game has exactly one feeder/troll (simpler maths this way) that would mean the chance on each game is 4/9 that he'll be on your team, and 5/9 that he'll be on your team.

In the short run, chance might screw you over, and you might get a larger amount of trolls than the enemy teams you encounter. But what the law of big numbers says is essentially, that the larger the sample size, the closer you will get to the expected distribution. In this case, that 4/9 of trolls are on your team, and 5/9 of trolls are on the enemy team.

Edit: Let's take a look at one game: The chance that you're getting screwed over (more than 1/2 of the trolls so far) is obviously 4/9. Pretty high.

Let's take a look at two games: chance of getting screwed over is 4/9*4/9 = 2/81

10 games: Slightly more complicated... you'd need to get at least 6/10 trolls. That would correspond to a chance of [ 10*9*8*7 / (4*3*2*1) ] * 4/9^6 * 5/9^4 => about 15.4% (I'd walk you through the maths to get the first big bracket... but I'm honestly a bit sleepy.) And the chance to stray this far off the expected distribution goes further down the larger the sample size of games.

EL HAMSTEROMay 1, 20162 votes

there are 4 players on your team. there are 5 on the other team. 56% of the trolls and feeders will be on the other team. it is fact.

aj502 OneillMay 1, 20161 votes

Ah, ok...I get it...

Now only if that 1 loss didn't set you back 2-3 wins...

TrulyBlandMay 1, 20162 votes

It doesn't. It might in the short run, regarding LP. But the MMR change is going to be the same as one loss. And MMR is what defines where you'll be placed in the long run.

Gimpy89May 1, 20161 votes

Ayyy at least one person gets it.

Kei143May 1, 20161 votes

it doesn't. it just assures that they are on both sides equally.

Gimpy89May 1, 20161 votes

I said assuming you are never afk.

if you afk at the same rate as everyone else then yes its 50/50, but then you cant really blame afks since you are one.

Gimpy89May 1, 20161 votes

The amount of people that don't know basic math is depressing. The law of large numbers states that the mean of a large number of trials/samples converges to the expected value. An individual game is completely irrelevant. If you play enough games 5/9 of the afks will be on the enemy team and 4/9 of them will be on your team assuming you never afk. But if you have never heard of the LLN you probably don't even know what statistics is and the only thing that makes sense to you is anecdote.

aj502 OneillMay 1, 20161 votes

1st off, that is not "basic math".

2nd off, you'd get popped in the jaw talking in your self righteous condescending tone like that, kid.

Get over yourself, you ain't better than anyone else, even if your mommy tells you so.

If you feel like being a depressed emo, be my guest, but you don't need to talk down to anyone because of it, got it?

Have some fucking respect for people.

Gimpy89May 1, 20161 votes

You are right it isn't even math it is basic common sense. You shouldn't run your mouth and say things are made up when you have no idea what you are talking about. It is sad and frankly embarrassing that there are 1st graders with a better understanding of math and science than adults. I am not the public education system its not my job to make you feel good about yourself. If you are being an idiot I will call it out.

I also don't need my mom I have a degree and IEEE publications.

aj502 OneillMay 1, 20161 votes

Well, again...Laws of averages are not "basic math", but you know that, right?

Next, if you are such the "highly intelligent" person you claiming, why start off with such a condescending sentence like "The amount of people that don't know basic math is depressing."?

I mean, if you ARE "depressed" by such a (false, as told, it is NOT "basic math") premise, then you indeed should seek some help.

Now, in this reply, you say you are "sad".... Are you truly "sad" and "depressed"? I might think with your obvious tendancy to "put people down on the internet" that this is the cause of some personal issue... Ugly? Self loathing? Lost your job? Wife left you?

Hell man, you cannot tell me acting like you are better than anyone else, especially here, REALLY makes you feel better...It simp[lay cannot...It's just an outlet to vent your personal issues.

Because if you DIDN'T have some sort of self doubt, there's no way you would have acted all high and mighty with your opening - you would have simply left it out and did the rest of your reply and no one would have thought anything of it, other than a "Ah, ok...Thanks man...I got it.".

Your so-called "degree and IEEE publications" has certainly not helped you with whatever problems you have, perhaps try a different avenue?

Gimpy89May 1, 20161 votes

Keep telling yourself that its not basic math and that this straw--man with all these issues is true. What ever you need to cope. Middle school stats is just really advanced and its not your fault. Basic math is just + - * /. I guess all equations are advanced too since you don't even know what an equation is and called my statement an equation incorrectly.

your logic: i don't get it so it isn't basic : he is upsetting me so i need to make a straw man with all these problems to feel better

Might be a coping mechanism.

I find it annoying when people pretend they know what they are talking about when they literally have no understanding what-so-ever about the subject they are talking about. That is it. You implied you knew what you were talking about by saying i was making shit up so im criticizing your ignorance on a subject you are pretending to have some grasp on when you dont. You are the type of person that argues with people just to hear the sound of your own voice.

There are plenty of subjects i have no experience in and know nothing about, but i don't go around telling people with some experience in them that they are wrong just to be contradictory. It is like a bronze 5 going to a pro stream and telling the guy how to build.

aj502 OneillMay 1, 20161 votes

Now you don't even know what "straw man" means...Do you just hear these neat-o phrases and say them for the hell of it?

But I digress...Back on YOUR major issue of depression...

You say: "Basic math is just + - * /" Well, ya need more than that to formulate averages, right? I mean, it's all of the above combined, but still not "basic"...

Or is it? Algebra, calculus, trigonometry, etc...ALL use "+ - * /"

Are THOSE "basic math"?

My bad if my friendly little jab saying "you making this up" caused you so much discontent...It certainly wasn't meant as harmful... I know, good ole text doesn't always convey the lighhthearted-ness but still, I wouldn't think one would take it like I was suggesting anally raping your mother...

My bad for not putting ":P" afterwards...Perhaps had I did, you wouldn't be so sad and depressed. Sorry man.

Issues indeed...Perhaps you need a big bottle of "Lighten up Frances"?

Then maybe you'll realize that not everything that doesn't agree with you 100% isn't mean as some sort of mean spirited shot at your manhood.

I find it annoying when people pretend they know what they are talking about when they literally have no understanding what-so-ever about the subject they are talking about.

Ironic statement is ironic :D

Gimpy89May 2, 20161 votes

Straw-man: "informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent" -wiki

You create a fake persona with all these life problems to make the argument that i have a bunch of life problems when we are not talking about personal lives. You see the word depressing and intentionally take it completely out of context to make this an argument about emotional/psychological state when it is not. It is a straw-man by definition.

Algebra, calculus, trigonometry, etc...ALL use "+ - * /" Are THOSE "basic math"?

"Middle school stats is just really advanced and its not your fault. Basic math is just + - * /." => this was sarcasm. GJ refuting a sarcastic point. You forgot to show that middle school stats isn't advanced and that equations are not advanced though so only 1/3 points.

2)another straw-man where you take a sarcastic comment as an actual point and refute it. NICE!

Considering the fact that all respectable universities have Algebra, calculus, trigonometry as a general education requirement for ALL majors. Yea they are basic. Not as basic as LLN though. Yes advanced math does use +-*/ though. Again GJ disproving a sarcastic comment.

aj502 OneillMay 2, 20161 votes

Wait... "Informal fallacies"??? "Fake persona"?? ""Life problems"???

What the fuck are you on about now???

If you DIDN'T want anyone to think you were depressed, then why the hell would you SAY you were??

Look here, Chumley, if ya wanna be sad, mad, up, down about anything, be my guest...But don't SAY you are, then act like someone shoved a roll of hot barbed wire up your ass when they mention it.

You DON'T wanna be taken the wrong way? Then say what ya mean.

I'll not even hit on the "basic to who..?. 1st you say 1st graders, now you mention Universities..." part...You're just spinning out of control like a frothing mental midget...

For god's sake, get the fuck back on your medication. I'd hate to suggest you actually did something wrong in game, you'd prolly make Tyler1 look like a creampuff.

Gimpy89May 2, 20161 votes

"Wait... "Informal fallacies"??? "Fake persona"?? ""Life problems"???

What the fuck are you on about now???"

You didn't seem to understand how you were using a straw-man argument so i thought i could explain it to you. I should have known that trying to explain anything to you would be a waste of time.

You are either to stupid to talk to or are just trolling for the sake of it and I'm starting to think its the latter. Either way talking to you is about as pointless as playing chess with a chicken or trying to explain rotating to a bronze 5 and this is a waste of my time.

Also literally the only thing i said about depression in all of this was "The amount of people that don't know basic math is depressing." I am not the subject of this sentence. It doesn't mean i am depressed. I refuse to believe that you don't know how a sentence works so i am assuming you are just trolling by pretending to be an idiot.

If i said "Kacytron is annoying" does it mean i am annoyed? no because i'm not the subject in the sentence. It means that annoying is a trait of kacytron.

If i say "its sad when JG's forget smite" does this mean i am sad? no because im not the subject of the sentence.

You are so delusional.

Ill let you have the last comment to say some more non-sense or whatever you need to do to convince yourself you won.

Also don't worry you will never see me in any game of LoL 1703 mmr is never matched with 940 and i actually get better every season instead of blaming a fictitious elo hell to make myself feel better.

aj502 OneillMay 2, 20161 votes

"Also literally the only thing i said about depression in all of this was "The amount of people that don't know basic math is depressing."

Well, glad you decided to get back onto one point, such as it is, instead of menstrating randon quips about irrelevant topics.

So by this one statement you made, and you "examples", who is one to think is "depressed"?

Did someone tell you they were depressed about it (lack of "basic math") and you are anonymously conveying THEIR "depression"?? Did the mathematician gods tell you their "depression" in an epiphany? Is it your overall decree that everyone, excluding you, be "depressed" about it?

I mean, you said "it" is "drepressing". Well, Mensa, "depressing" to whom then?

Certainly not I.

Riddle us this answer, wise one.

Either that, or don't act like a condescending asshole to start off your reply.

EL HAMSTEROMay 1, 20162 votes

there are 4 potential trolls or afks on your team. there are 5 on the other team. over time you will Definitely get less trolls and afks on your team than there are on the other team.