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anyone else notice that the tribunal is completely useless and only punishes the victims?

Rancid Reaver··2 votes·1,251 views

3 people on my team openly admitted to keeping me from catching up to my laner by taxing my lane and keeping me from getting gold these players did not get penalized (but i did for telling them to get out my lane)(may have swore at them a couple times but what do you expect) and for now on im just gonna do my best not to reply but bad game or not this should not be fucking happening over and over and the people never get punished its the victims that get punishment.

once again requesting a fix to the tribunal it has been down for maintenance for well over 3 months (thats pathetic!)

i hate bothering you guys with this petty stuff but this is ridiculous i have shit like this happen to me almost every other game #1 reason im still in bronze is because you guys dont ban people that are 1.) racist 2.) trying to piss off their own team 3.) trolling the game 4.) harassing their teamates 5.) griefing or intentionally feeding otherwise leaving the enemy team a free game... so please lets get that tribunal fixed.

i have reported north of 100 people for saying or spamming the word (n*gger) in chat more than half didnt get banned isnt there like a simple line right there i might be wrong but if you say that word in front of me you better hope cops are around(this is not a threat just an example)... i also think its time to do a purge of your current tribunal group if all these reasons arent enough to get people banned ive gotten penalized just for replying to people (multiple times with video evidance) who are freaking out on me and these guys would be allowed to get away with murder if left up to the current people that are running it i am litterally begging you guys to fix your reporting system.... GLHF

STOP BANNING THE VICTIMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!@!@!!!!11

27 Comments

Desolas Arterius4 votes

Okay so, few things:

1: The Tribunal has been down for years. It was a pretty faulty system, and was replaced with the Instant Feedback System that we use now. The Tribunal wont be back until sometime after the LCU goes live, but even then it'll be drastically different and improved.

2: Toxic people is not the reason you're in Bronze. I'm mean this sincerely. Don't let others hold you back when you can improve. Look towards yourself and see what you're doing wrong. Regardless if there is a troll or toxic player in your team, you can still climb so long as your individual skill is above theirs. If you blame other's attitude for the reason you're in Bronze, then you really need to take a look at yourself and find out the real reason as to why you can't climb. Don't skirt responsibility; only you can better yourself.

3: IFS does not punish victims. In fact, the new system has a very little error rate when it comes to punishing toxic players. Mostly because the IFS allows for players to Reform and prevent themselves from getting banned if they're willing to change their behavior.

4: People are not getting away with anything. If you are reporting as much as you say you are, then I guarantee you that those toxic players will be punished. It may not be immediate, but it does happen. The thing is, you wont know when and how they'll get punished. Perhaps this was their first infraction? Maybe their first punishment? The system works in tiers, so maybe some of them just received chat bans or a suspension. You don't know this, so don't think that they are getting away with it.

Also, gameplay trolling is much harder to detect quickly than behavioral, so usually trolling takes a few more reports before punishment is dealt. It does happen, trust me, just not as quickly as toxic behavior gets punished since that looks for words and certain phrasing. It's easier to spot a toxic player than it is a troll, so remember that when reporting.

But still, always report the ones who deserve it, and continue improving yourself so you can be the best you can be.

I hope that helped.

ZippoBolter2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Desolas Arterius,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RvtLmGoQ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-11-22T17:09:42.114+0000)

Okay so, few things:

1: The Tribunal has been down for years. It was a pretty faulty system, and was replaced with the Instant Feedback System that we use now. The Tribunal wont be back until sometime after the LCU goes live, but even then it'll be drastically different and improved.

2: Toxic people is not the reason you're in Bronze. I'm mean this sincerely. Don't let others hold you back when you can improve. Look towards yourself and see what you're doing wrong. Regardless if there is a troll or toxic player in your team, you can still climb so long as your individual skill is above theirs. If you blame other's attitude for the reason you're in Bronze, then you really need to take a look at yourself and find out the real reason as to why you can't climb. Don't skirt responsibility; only you can better yourself.

3: IFS does not punish victims. In fact, the new system has a very little error rate when it comes to punishing toxic players. Mostly because the IFS allows for players to Reform and prevent themselves from getting banned if they're willing to change their behavior.

4: People are not getting away with anything. If you are reporting as much as you say you are, then I guarantee you that those toxic players will be punished. It may not be immediate, but it does happen. The thing is, you wont know when and how they'll get punished. Perhaps this was their first infraction? Maybe their first punishment? The system works in tiers, so maybe some of them just received chat bans or a suspension. You don't know this, so don't think that they are getting away with it.

Also, gameplay trolling is much harder to detect quickly than behavioral, so usually trolling takes a few more reports before punishment is dealt. It does happen, trust me, just not as quickly as toxic behavior gets punished since that looks for words and certain phrasing. It's easier to spot a toxic player than it is a troll, so remember that when reporting.

But still, always report the ones who deserve it, and continue improving yourself so you can be the best you can be.

I hope that helped.

IFS hands out permanent bans on a whim with no prior punishment, the new system does not encourage reforming. There are many toxic players who escape without punishment and many "victims" aka players who retaliate with their own toxicity out of anger of how poorly they are treated, these players are more likely to receive punishment for some ungodly reason

Desolas Arterius2 votes

It doesn't hand out permanent bans for behavioral issues on a whim. The only time a permanent ban is issued out without prior punishments is when the behavior is severe enough to warrant a skip in the punishment tiers, which usually involves excessive amounts of hate speech. But even then that's like a tiny percentage, so it does not happen often.

If you're talking about other permanent bans, those occur due to security, illegal software use, and financial issues. Those are not handled by the IFS.

The system does encourage reforming because when it is your first time being punished (after receiving multiple, legitimate reports for the same issue) you will receive your first punishment of a 10 game chat restriction. At that point, you have two options: continue the behavior and receive more severe punishments for your behavior, or change your attitude positively and never get banned/punished anymore. When this does happen, a player receives what is called a "reform card" which is to help show them what part of their text/attitude was deemed negative by the community and Riot.

These "victims" you mention are not entirely victims really. It's unfortunate, but the second a player lowers themselves to such an attitude, they are just as faulty as the ones instigating it. This is why Riot, and the community, consistently tell players to Mute, Report, and Move on. There is absolutely no reason to retaliate, it solves nothing and fixes nothing. There is no "He Started it" defense when it comes to your attitude. They are not more likely to receive punishment compared to the other, the only reason they do is because the "troll" trying to bait that attitude out will report them, whereas the original victim will refuse to report and continue flaming.

How on earth can anyone expect change if they don't want to work towards it? Flaming a troll, who wants you to do that, doesn't stop toxicity. It adds to it. It disrupts the game for the other players as well, and doesn't fix anything. So why do it? A single report is all it takes. So if a toxic troll is causing an issue, just mute and report. They'll get punished if they continue this behavior, so there's no reason for anyone to act the same.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

well put i honestly was just going to ignore his comment because i wouldnt know how to word it altho im not sure about the perma bans part as i dont know anyone that has been actually banned from the game

HexaDecimel4 votes

Riot actually has a very low false positive rate. I have only seen two or three instances where a punishment was handed down in error and Riot was always willing to fix the issue when it was brought to their attention.

I have reported a lot of people as well. Sometimes I get a message saying they got punished, other times I don't and I understand that either they aren't normally like that or they will eventually get theirs.

Riot is generally very quick to perma ban extreme cases of racism, sexism, and death threats. The problem is that too many people don't seem to understand that getting into a verbal contest with another player is not acceptable. You aren't defending yourself or another player, you are just fanning the flames. If you see an issue politely ask that they stop or offer some helpful advice and if it isn't accepted then mute and report. That's literally all you have to do. If players are getting banned then its not because they are victims.

Overall I think the reporting system works pretty well. The players choose what is reportable, we choose whether or not we want to report, and the system offers leeway for players that have an occasional off game. Things like chat are easy for the system to catch so naturally you will see more of those punishments handed out. Stuff like trolling through gameplay and builds is a little harder but Riot is constantly working to improve the system and I have seen an increase in player bans due to trolling. And they actually have a pretty good record catching third party programs and account sharing. As with everything it isn't perfect, it is a net, some things will slip through, but a majority is caught.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

you make a fair point nothing in this world is perfect, this whole post was because i got chat-banned for telling 3 members of my team to stop taxing my lane and intentionally keeping me from getting gold exp ect to be able to fight my laner (with some choice words of course) but i feel that if they are antagonizing and trying to get my reaction they should be the ones punished not me

HexaDecimel1 votes

I won't deny that would be frustrating. And I would have likely asked them to stop. If they didn't I probably would yell at my computer, it would put me in a pretty bad mood.

But we need to make a clear distinction here, I can yelling anything I want at my computer, but once I put that in chat its my fault now to and I share the blame.

Also it is important to realize that when you get a chat restriction, it probably isn't just from one game. The way the system works is it records behavior patterns. Players will get reported, false reports will get thrown out, but just because you get a valid report doesn't mean you will instantly be punished. Riot stated that there is some leeway, they recognize that players will every once and a while have a bad game. Somewhat consistent toxic behavior, even if it is relatively minor, will eventually add up and the system will trigger a punishment.

And the same goes for your teammates, if they are creating a negative environment for you and trolling then of course you should report them. Don't fight or argue with them, don't ask for reports, just mute and report. And the say system that gave you leeway will do the same for them. Maybe they never act that way normally, maybe its just a bad day. But if they do it often then they will get a punishment eventually. I understand that sometimes its difficult to stop yourself from saying anything, its difficult to not just give up and afk, or feed in an attempt to make the game go faster. But that just puts you in the same boat as everyone else that will eventually get punished.

TLDR - Don't allow others to control you, don't let them get you banned. Make sure you stay in the right, and report the heathens that ruin this game. Let us all pray for a swift hammer of justice.

Frink3 votes

There hasn't been a "Tribunal" for years now.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

well maybe they just need to remove the tribunal and may as well remove the reporting system because even when i actually tried to win games havent really tried in like a year but even then you can do great 7 out of 10 games but lose them all to teamates trolling intent feeding ect. its stupid and then i get the chat ban because i replied to the people that were cussing me out calling me all kinds of shit taxing griefing... the report system is useless and if there isnt a tribunal maybe take down the pages saying thet there still is one thats just down for maintenance

HexaDecimel2 votes

They did remove the Tribunal.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

http://tribunal.na.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/maintenance.html http://na.leagueoflegends.com/legal/tribunal say what

HexaDecimel1 votes

What I meant was they stopped using the Tribunal, they replaced it with the current automated system. And that link you posted that states its down for maintenance has been that way for over 3 years.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

yeah i dont know i was just super salty the other night... i know why i got a chat ban all i had to do was not reply but i have a defensive state of mind so i instantly tried to defend myself when people verbally attacked me

HexaDecimel1 votes

You can't think of it as defense. I understand that words can hurt, they dig deep, they frustrate, and can bring up other things that you may be dealing with in life. But responding to hateful people in a hateful manner isn't defending yourself.

They can't physically harm you, the only power they hold over you is the power you give them.

When I get players salty at me it sucks, and I will normally give a quick explanation of my situation. But if it doesn't stop them then I force myself not to respond. I need to separate myself from the situation and look at things objectively. It would feel good to vent, argue, and criticize that player. It would feel good to call them trash and get others to support me. It would feel good to know they got reported and banned. But nothing will workout for me if I go that direction.

Literally the only solution and way to protect yourself to ignore and report. Refusing to respond to a troll frustrates the hell out of them. They want to ruin your day, they want to get you banned, they want to make you lose. Try to stay positive in chat, or don't use it at all, don't give up until the end, then report the hell out of them after the game and include notes to better help Riot.

Croiss2 votes

Just had a game not to long ago with this shitty 4man premade Syndra who kept telling me to "get aids and die" basically and flamed me whole game with said premade. Can't wait to see that message, even though the system probably wont do anything. Just hoping that it will.

Rancid Reaver2 votes

yeah i have gotten problems like this alot too people think its fun to ruin the game for other people

EvilDustMan2 votes

What do you think pouring out hate and bile is going to do to fix the situation?

Rancid Reaver1 votes

who is pooring out hate

Z Statistic2 votes

There are no 'victims' in a chat altercation. This kind of thinking is asinine. If you'll be more polite, you'll probably have better success at the game and improving yourself. Blowing up people does nothing because it just makes it harder to work together and win.

I'm kind of curious though. The past few years have shown a marketed decrease in the number of complaints for bans handed out to crass individuals who just don't give a fuck. But I'm starting to see a trend where now the busybodies are getting banned because they have their head up their ass. The system is cannibalizing itself. I'm not sure whether to be happy that everything is playing out how I predicted or sad that everything is playing out how I predicted.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

the victim in what im saying is the guy getting attacked by 3 members of his team for his first mistake and that ruining the rest of his game because they cant just calm down, shut their mouths and play dont sit here and try to act like there is never a victim and trust me after a comment like this one if you arent banned the ones with their heads up their asses arent getting banned enough

GLHF!!

Z Statistic3 votes

Lol.

Yes. I'm going to be banned for saying you're being melodramatic with wordchoice. Brilliant.

No, there isn't a victim. You are 100% responsible for your own emotional reaction. And even if you weren't, what is the bodycount of insulting people in League of Legends? How many casualties? How many people are punched in the face by words over the internet?

None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

They are not a victim. Labeling them victims is an insult to people who are actual victims of actual crimes.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

i didnt say you were gonna get banned might want to re-read that

Z Statistic1 votes

{quoted} dont sit here and try to act like there is never a victim and trust me after a comment like this one if you arent banned the ones with their heads up their asses arent getting banned enough

GLHF!!

If you were just using the hypothetical 'you', I'd suggest being more clear.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

once again did not say you were going to get bannedi said if you arent banned people with their heads up their asses arent getting banned you litterally just quoted it..............................................................................

Z Statistic1 votes

Ah, I see.

You're not telling me that I was going to get banned. You were simply saying that if I was not banned for my comment, then that means the people with their heads up their asses aren't getting banned enough.

You're not saying I'm going to be banned. You're saying that I'm a fucking asshole who should be banned.

Gotcha. That's a completely nuanced perspective that radically changes the direction and focus of the response onto something more positive.

midnight oil241 votes

You shouldn't have sworn at them. You need to be polite when telling them to GTFO, or try taxing their lanes in return. If they can take from yours, surely it's only fair to take from theirs.

Also, you're not be in bronze just for having bad teammates. You might need to get better as well. Saying that it's your teammates fault isn't a solution to your problem.

Rancid Reaver1 votes

i can use improvement there is no doubt about that, and i know i shouldnt react but this kind of stuff happens almost every game and the people keep coming back and doing the same things over and over ive climbed out of bronze before s2 was my highest but lately they seem to be doing this more and more often and if its not me being targetted its some other poor soul

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