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14 Day suspension; Am I in the wrong?

zero fks given··5 votes·1,732 views

Hello Summoners. My account got 14 day suspended today while doing some last minute grinding to diamond to see if I could make it, and of course there's no chance of that now. I feel as though this ban was unnecessary, as well as being additionally upsetting due to me no longer being eligible for end-of-season rewards. At the end of the day, my end request is to at least reacquire these rewards. Ironically, I was also Honor 5.

Here is a picture of my suspension notice (I said a total of 9 lines all in which you can see) and a picture of the end game stats (I am Morgana):

https://imgur.com/ZYUXuIG https://imgur.com/ZWzHI9a

The gist of the game involved Cho'Ghath and J4 spam pinging me and what I assume to be bm-ing me in their foreign language. At some point they started a surrender vote, to which I asked if I should ff (me being the deciding vote), as shown in the chat logs. However, I didn't because our support wanted to carry on. In addition, I believed we still had a chance.

Obviously the main contention will be the use of "%%%%%%%%%%%" and perhaps also "Cho just suicide". I'm sorry for falling to the level of these players and using the phrase "%%%%%%%%%%%", but I hardly feel this suspension was necessary given the context of the game at large. "Cho just suicide" was simply me commenting on Cho'Ghath doing what looked like an honest act of feeding, NOT me advocating any sort of real life implications you might be thinking of. I come from an asian background myself so my English is not always perfect. The correct phrase should've been "Cho just suicided". Again, I apologize for using both these phrases.

I have never been restricted, banned, or suspended before and do not consider myself to be a toxic player.

I hope I can at the very least retain my end of season rewards, as losing them this late in the season especially is very frustrating. If relevant, I also sent in a riot support ticket on this, although I suspect nothing to come of it. So, am I in the wrong and do I not deserve the end-of-season rewards?

35 Comments

bwuk zero pb5 votes

For an avid League of Legends who has apparently received zero prior punishments beforehand within the entirety of Season 7, does this not seem a bit too overboard and/or extreme? First of all, yes, the whole '%%%%%%%%%%%' remark was obviously not the smartest thing to say, but it's definitely not the most racist 'remark' or 'insult' you could throw at a person(s) of Chinese descent. Regardless, I'm by no means trying to excuse this 'behavior' I only personally feel as if this punishment isn't exactly justified. It almost seems as if the very FEW of the things being said in this chatlog are truly being misunderstood.

I can feel for this players situation. I understand what they're trying to say. It's not only very frustrating to have to deal with 2 players who are speaking in Chinese all game to each other (In North America, also a duo, completely ignoring and flaming the rest of their team), being extremely toxic and repeatedly getting themselves killed and blaming it on anyone but themselves. Sure, was it wrong to say '%%%%%%%%%%%', - YES. Subsequently, does this truly, in all honesty deserve a 14 day ban? For a player to lose their season rewards and lose the last bit of little time they would have had to climb to Diamond? A player that has NEVER been punished beforehand in the past season(s)? In my HUMBLE opinion, fuck no.

If a Rioter wants to prove otherwise that 'zero fks given' has been toxic and punished in the past, feel free to provide proof otherwise the first punishment, as more reasonable as it sounds, should (in my opinion) scale to a 25 chat restriction and if said behavior continues (although this behavior wasn't no where near as bad as most of the 'toxic' things people say / act on this game, not even remotely close) then move to a 14 day / permanent ban.

It may come off as if 'zero fks given' is blatantly stating 'cho just suicide' as an insult or hate speech to Cho'Gath, but it's really not the case - I've watched the replay of this game and the Cho'Gath was suiciding in the most obvious ways. This Cho'Gath was clearly trying to throw the game because he was upset that he wasn't doing too well. It could almost come off as if they were just trolling and didn't truly care whether they won or lost, resulting in a negative game experience for the rest of the players involved in this match. (the only player who tried not to die and play to the best he/she could was everyone BUT the Cho'Gath and J4)

Regardless, I don't think zero fks given was directly saying '%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%' to the apparent Chinese duo, it was more so that they were flooding the chat with their foreign language that only a minority will be able to decipher. (Why can't they just use mics? Instead, keep their language that the majority of people on North American servers will not understand - out of the chat

tl;dr

zero fks given said '%%%%%%%%%%%' to a toxic Chinese duo zero fks given said 'cho just suicide' as a way of saying - the player is intentionally feeding / not caring to win. Player actually meant to say 'Cho just suicided', forgot the suicide(D) and ends up sounding like a toxic phrase. System may have picked it up as player using this as an insult -> suicide threats / hate speech scales into 14 day / permanent ban.

But, if '%%%%%%%%%%%' truly deserves a 14 day ban, then by any means, it's your game but I think chat restrictions for this and repeated behavior should result in a ban afterwards. Any co

Anyway, this should really be looked into by a Riot employee and at the very least, give the player their season rewards back. I've seen so much worse, this chat log doesn't even hit the bottom of the barrel of 'toxic'. It's sad to see that this will go ignored. @Riot, your anti-toxicity automated system is flawed and quite honestly - bullshit.

zero fks given3 votes

I agree. It was wrong to say what I said and I apologize. I'd actually be fine with the 14 day ban and even to an extent agree that It was deserved. However, to lose my rewards that I worked for, as well as my honor and a chance at getting diamond for the first time (I was plat 1 with around 30 LP). Especially coming from someone who had honor 5 basically since the honor system came out. I said a total of 9 lines that entire game, one line only being worthy of punishment. I don't think it compares to all the harrassment, pings, and comments that came from the people that reported me during that game. Chat restriction sounds more reasonable.

In addition, you are correct in saying they were flooding the chat with their foreign language. As much as I hate to say it, they started spamming their pings at me when they die and continue talking whatever possible nonsense in their language, and my immaturity and frustration got the best of me, you can also say I was instigated. After I realized what I said I muted them to prevent further offensive remarks. @Riot

Just to throw it out there, one of the players on my team said "Go back to your own server". Which I believe was far more discriminative and racist, & He was not penalized.

Thank you for understanding Bwuk <3!

ModThe Djinn4 votes

The second line you typed is considered to be racist language, and is subject to a zero tolerance policy, to my knowledge.

zero fks given2 votes

I understand that. I made this post not to justify what I said, but given how insolent they acted towards me, and the game, I feel that my single offensive remark I made doesn't justify the deprivation of the rewards I earned including the honor I had. The 14 day ban - Fine.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=zero fks given,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RtQOERgy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-05T17:33:37.019+0000)

I understand that. I made this post not to justify what I said, but given how insolent they acted towards me, and the game, I feel that my single offensive remark I made doesn't justify the deprivation of the rewards I earned including the honor I had. The 14 day ban - Fine.

All punishments of any level result in a drop to Honor 0. All 14-day bans after 8/22/2017 (as announced multiple times since then) result in a loss of all season rewards. In this case the single remark does, unfortunately, justify that loss, as the criteria was clearly laid out and the offending comment is a zero-tolerance statement that earns an immediate 14-day ban.

You are entitled to disagree, as that is your own opinion, but the answer to the question you asked ("So, am I in the wrong and do I not deserve the end-of-season rewards?") is, as per Riot's policy, "Yes, you are in the wrong and you do not deserve end-of-season rewards."

zero fks given1 votes

If you agree with that then that is you, and I understand. However, keep in mind Riot has removed account suspensions/restrictions before, after punishing them for offensive behavior far worse than my own.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=zero fks given,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RtQOERgy,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-05T18:16:19.097+0000)

If you agree with that then that is you, and I understand. However, keep in mind Riot has removed account suspensions/restrictions before, after punishing them for offensive behavior far worse than mine.

I have never seen a suspension lifted for violation of a zero-tolerance policy (save in one or two instances where players were holding games hostage unless people said those phrases), but I'd be interested in seeing an example if you have one!

zero fks given1 votes

If DDOS, cheating, and having a constant record of toxicity, verbal abuse and harassment is able to be lifted, ( AKA C9 JENSEN who has done all of this ) can't one single remark with 2 words be lifted?

ModThe Djinn3 votes

He received the ability to play again, but I do not believe he got any accounts restored -- that is the difference between an account ban and a personal ban. The latter means you're not welcome on ANY account, the former just means you've lost one account.

Players who get personal bans revoked do not regain any of their previous accounts.

zero fks given1 votes

My point was, Riot still gave him a chance, and what he had done is out of proportion if you ask me. The miniscule offense I made doesn't amount to the punishment I had received.

In all honestly, I just think the 25 chat restriction Bwuk recommended is more reasonable than the deprivation of all my rewards along with a 14 day ban, and chance at diamond. I was incongruous, and the punishment does not deem sensible.

If you want to be adament and say that despite my sportsmanlike, positive, mostly calm attitude I have kept through season 7, I deserve this ban for slipping up once this entire year, saying 2 words towards people who were obviously upset, flaming me, treated me worse, intentionally feeding, then by all means sir you're entitled to that.

Now I don't believe what I said should go unpunishment and is immature for sure, but given the situation, I feel that Bwuk is correct in saying that the penalty is extreme.

I'm not a toxic player, and I don't even swear.

I'm just a casual streamer feel free to follow everyone Twitch.tv/riceybunny ^^

Modi1 votes

I have only seen one example of a suspended individual being given a reduced remaining time on their punishment sentence. They have never, as far as I have ever seen, removed any punishment tier that was justly applied. Just because they reduce the sentence's remaining time (clemency) does not mean that they removed the punishment tier (pardon).

zero fks given1 votes

I don't think it should be pardoned either. I can see where the 14 day ban comes from, but to lose everything else because of this, does not serve justice in my opinion. Especially since the duo that reported me were the flamers themselves.

Modi1 votes

Being able to get rewards would be a pardon:

2: the excusing of an offense without exacting a penalty

If you are punished (14 day suspension), then allowed to evade the consequences of said punishment (able to receive end of season rewards), that is a pardon, by definition.

zero fks given1 votes

Okay this helps me further prove my point. Thank you ^^

I was referring to the entirety of the punishment altogether, should not be pardoned. Also the 14 day suspension is in fact, in itself, an independent punishment as well. The result of me saying 2 words "%%%%%%%%%%%" (this is the offense) is followed by a 14 day suspension (this is the penalty). I'm not 'excusing the offense without penalty' which is the definition of pardon you gave me. A penalty is STILL being enforced. The consequence of this penalty (because it is the end of the season) is the deprivation of rewards which I feel in the case SHOULD be excused. In short, "a punishment should certainly be enforced, (like Bwuk mentoned 25 chat restriction, which is more reasonable given the situation) but the punishment should not be as extreme as the one that was given as a whole."

And in all honesty, if Riot was to 'pardon' something, I have no doubt in my mind it would be discrete, which is why you nor I wouldn't know.

CooL Ice Tea1 votes

(like Bwuk mentoned 25 chat restriction, which is more reasonable given the situation)

this is the only thing that triggers me a bit to be honest. You are quoting a guy which has 3 total posts on these boards (first one 2 days old).

You are on these boards for 17 hours now.

People which argue with you here are reading the same stuff over and over for years. Because we are interested in knowledge about the system and the game itself. We saw it all, every story if fake or not and we (without any change about the outcome) judged about enough cases to have a feeling about it.

You are quoting a guy which is brand new on boards instead of trusting some people with long time experience. This is the best system which they can come up with. Maybe you were thinking about punishment options the last day, there are people which do this since a decade since it's their job.

zero fks given2 votes

Okay.

Firstly, I'd like to say I am sorry that you are provoked. However, This this is irrelevant in my opinion. Someone can read these same things over and over through the years, just like your experienced individuals and have things to say, but not post it. It might not be the case for Bwuk, but whether or not it is or isn't is not relevant. I can quote anyone that I feel makes sense to me, whether he is a veteran posting on the boards or not. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It didn't have to be Bwuk, if anyone said something I felt made sense to me, I would point it out. The fact you mention this is rather frivolous to me.

Modi1 votes

I'm sorry that you don't feel that the punishment fits the behavior, but that is how it is. You broke the rules, you were punished. Riot sees hate speech as an egregious offence, hence the more severe punishment. That is where the disconnect here, a difference of opinion. Unfortunately, that is how the rules and punishments are applied, and I doubt there is any recourse for you at this point, but feel free to continue to follow up on your support ticket making your case there. They are the ones that could possibly help you.

zero fks given3 votes

I'm glad you understood my first point.

Thanks Modi, everything you said is pretty much known too. Additionally, if you agree with Riot that the offense suits the punishment, then that is your opinion as well. Furthermore, If I am going to be punished for one line out of the nine lines I sent that game, the ones that acted out (far worse than myself) should be punished as well. If they are petty enough to report me for one line, then I feel that they should be suspensed and denied their rewards too. Do you at least agree that both parties should be punished? I do, so that's why I sent a ticket. Also if you read my entire post, I said myself I suspect nothing to come out of it. I don't think I'll get my rewards honestly, because Riot thinks too highly of their system, but it doesn't hurt to try. Moreover, if Riot wants to serve justice in this case, and punish everyone who acts out, they definitely should see how toxic these individuals were, and take the necessary actions. A few of you seem to be standing by the point "you acted out therefore you were punished, and it was deserved". I only now wish I was able to screenshot the game and chat. I have offended them with one line, they have offended me in multiple lines and pings, as well as ruining the game for all other individuals on their team by giving up and griefing. Even the support and adc agreed they were likely trolling. If my offense deserves the punishment received, then their offense should be punished more severely, or at LEAST equal to mine. Fortunately, I think this is where Riot would agree.

Thanks Modi~ ^^

bwuk zero pb2 votes

edit

Ambient Snow3 votes

Kind of have to agree with Zero on this one. Fair for the banning with out justifications on both ends If he got banned for this one thing he said Then shouldn't the other party get banned to if their Remarks were negative in their own language.

This is one of the most unfaiir situations i can think of on both ends because if you can't understand what they are saying in a different language, then really you can't report them just because they speak differently and unless you are going to google translate every time they send a Chat, and setting yourself up to get reported for afking constantly you're really in a no win situation.

Now granted zero deserved the ban " Sorry Zero it was racist." But still

Shouldn't the other players who were speaking in the different language shouldn't they also get reviewed and banned as well if they were truly being toxic to this player as well?

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mamma Prishe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RtQOERgy,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-11-05T17:49:51.450+0000)Shouldn't the other players who were speaking in the different language shouldn't they also get reviewed and banned as well if they were truly being toxic to this player as well?

Players are not always alerted if their reports contribute to a punishment (usually only if their report was the LAST before a punishment, and that message can easily go to one of the other players in that game who reported them). It is rather silly for us to attempt to guess at the punishments another player received.

The thing to keep in mind here is that each player has his or her own independent track down the punishment system, and, if reported, the system will look at their behavior and apply the appropriate punishment. Something that causes a ban for one player may not necessarily cause the same punishment for another, as they may be at a different point on the punishment track.

Ambient Snow2 votes

Yea but my point here is, how do you even report that, I can't sit there and report every one who speaks a different language just cause i think they are trash talking me.. And vise versa for other players in the same situation.

In Zero's case we're only guessing if Zero Reported them or not, not sure if he did or didn't but i mean in situations like this where they obviously were a Duo queue and reported Zero for it. In return shouldn't that same report bounce backwards. and reviewed on both sides?

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mamma Prishe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RtQOERgy,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-05T17:59:46.895+0000)In Zero's case we're only guessing if Zero Reported them or not, not sure if he did or didn't but i mean in situations like this where they obviously were a Duo queue and reported Zero for it. In return shouldn't that same report bounce backwards. and reviewed on both sides?

I don't believe it should, no. The way the system works is that it learns the community's opinions from behaviors that are reported, and doing this would end up flagging a lot of games falsely, and that might skew data.

Ambient Snow1 votes

Ah wait you're right, I some times forget you guys use a bot that Chat filters key words form a chat log once its flagged. I forget its not the old Tribunal where people actually read the reports.

Dunno, the system seems kinda un fair in that retro spec i suppose cause unless you get a bunch of reports just for the simple fact some one didn't speak English on a English server.

any who thanks for the info !

ModThe Djinn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mamma Prishe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RtQOERgy,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-05T18:14:53.115+0000)Ah wait you're right, I some times forget you guys use a bot that Chat filters key words form a chat log once its flagged.

That's not exactly how it works, to my knowledge. The system is a bit more sophisticated than that, and can tell the difference between, say, cursing in general or cursing AT someone.

Dunno, the system seems kinda un fair in that retro spec i suppose cause unless you get a bunch of reports just for the simple fact some one didn't speak English on a English server.

If you think they're saying something offensive, report it. The system DOES know other languages. :P

zero fks given1 votes

I did not report them because quite honestly I did not care at the time. I just figured "another toxic duo blaming everyone else but themselves, I hope I don't see them ever again in future games" muted them, then moved on. In addition, having a bad game is not report worthy. I'm usually really understanding as well. If someone is getting upset during a game and say a few bad things, I'm sure most of us all felt angry over this game at some point and as a result, have said unkind things. It just happens. The times I had reported others, I have gotten instant feedback report I want to say, on almost every report I have ever sent out.

Anyhow, I sent a ticket to riot with my report, awaiting their reply.

zero fks given1 votes

They were a duo and they only decided to report me when I didn't participate in a team fight that they had started.

GrandPappyLuigi1 votes

I don't see anything wrong my dude, I have to deal with kids like that every game.. It's ridiculous. They fed and honestly they deserve to be flamed and banned. Anything can be considered a racial remark to anybody now a days so. What can you do? shrug

zero fks given1 votes

They don't deserved to be flamed, but suspended yes. It should be a two-way street if you ask me.

GrandPappyLuigi2 votes

lol okay so take this as an example, you're at McDonalds, a person is yelling at the cashier for the fries being cold or something along those lines, it's not the cashiers fault his food was messed up or cold. that person is in the wrong and deserves to get shit talked back because the cashier did nothing wrong. this guy did nothing wrong so why should he get in trouble for dealing with the problem?

zero fks given1 votes

Lol you're silly, thanks though.

EvilDustMan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=zero fks given,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RtQOERgy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-11-05T17:59:05.971+0000)

They don't deserved to be flamed, but suspended yes. It should be a two-way street if you ask me.

It is a two way street. Both parties deserve to be punished, and if you reported them, likely were.

zero fks given1 votes

I did not report them because I did not think it was significant at the time. Also reporting people isn't exactly what crosses my mind post game (honoring someone does!). Moreover, I've gotten to the habit of just q'ing up for the next game and moving on. Is it my fault for not reporting them at the time? - yes.

However, this situation still should be looked into. You can also say that the ticket I sent to riot, is a report as well.

You also might be one those individuals who are like "Oh now you report them", but of course! Post-game I don't report EVERY single person I felt was negative. If Riot believes we need to report every person who makes even a single line that is a negative, I guess I'm just more understanding than Riot. We all have bad games, get frustrated, and thus might say one or two offensive things. And as mentioned before, it just didn't cross my mind. I feel as though I grew numb to players like this unfortunately. However, given their personality and pettiest, if they are going to report me for 1 out of the 9 lines I sent all game, then all I ask now is for Riot to look into the 50 offensive lines and misuse of pings that they spammed.

If it really is a 2 way street like you said they should expect a penalty soon because I did send out a ticket to riot.

Thank you EvilDustMan ^^

nerak231 votes

They fed and honestly they deserve to be flamed and banned.

No they Don't !!

OP-- Don't fall for it. Some posters are giving bad advice to encourage others to get punished more.

P.S. I'm not saying that is the intent of Grand pappy though, just a bit of advice, Riot punishes players for what they do only, not for what others do in the same game.

zero fks given1 votes

Hello, for anyone that was curious, Riot was unable to do anything about my suspension, as they think very highly of their automated system. With that being said, the first rioter that helped me said he is "Not going to validate any behavior" that game. He was not going to look into the game and see all players that acted out. Keep in mind, one of the reasons they give for submitting a ticket is "Report negative attitude, giving up and griefing". To my surprise, I sent out another ticket and the rioter this time was able to tell me he will look into the game and take the necessary actions, but cannot disclose anything. This on the other hand, makes more sense given it is an option to 'report negative behavior'. So in short, one rioter refused my request to look into the game and ignored my report, whereas another rioter was able to do so. Also the rioter that helped me the second ticket, quote on quote stated,

"Know that we don't just single one person out- we look through a game and take action on all players that misbehave."

If this is true, I find it rather odd that the riot employee that initially responded to my first ticket was unable to do exactly what the second rioter is doing. The first rioter refused to "look through the game and take action on all players that mishaved". Anyways, all is good now. I can only hope that the ones that flamed me the entire game and reported me, were also suspended and denied their rewards, after all, it's only fair.

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