Boards›Player Behavior

The Punishment System

Soul Burns··4 votes·1,384 views

Dear Riot I played this game during season 4, over 2k games and i noticed how fucked up the punishment system works, I had 2 accounts and both of them high platnium and had over $100+ worth of skin purchased and both was perma banned due to me being " toxic " and I'm not saying that to show off or anything, im just saying that to let you know that I have some background knowledge of this game. The purpose of me writing this to you was for this complaint " Why do you guys never punish the players for feeding and trolling on purpose but never say anything on the chat while banning the ones that is trying to call out the troll/feeder ones and get reported then deemed as toxic to the community." Like why do you guys doesn't remove the actual root of the game toxicity but rather removing the one that is trying to speak up. That is something I never understand, you guys doesn't respect the player enough to hear out their opinion, because deep down i know that I'm not toxic, but when i see players that doesn't want to cooperate or just straight up feeding on purpose, that is something that i have to speak up on, and once I do, " BAM" perma banned to the face, and the funny thing is, banning a non- toxic player that is trying to speak up isn't going to make the game or community any less better, the real problem is still out there and you have done nothing to prevent it from happening; And I know, I know, some people have their bad games and some doesn't and i respect that, but I have played league for more than 2 season so I can tell the difference between straight up trolling on purpose or having a bad day, we all had one at some point. Right now, I'm on the same situation as "videogamesdunkey" where he mad a video about quitting league of legend because he talk shit to someone that is trolling on his ranked game and I completely agreed with him,you talk shit about somebody that is ruining your league experience and you get banned for trying to speak up, like do you know how fucked up that is? This game is known for its toxic community and you can see why.

67 Comments

ModWulf Helhammer8 votes

You posted the Dunkey video as an argument against the behavior system?

Excuse me...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

EvilDustMan8 votes

Red flag. Dunkey video. Penalty.

Dunkey's argument was that it was okay for someone to tell another person they are worthless and deserve to be gunned down as long as he felt they were feeding.

This is pretty flawed.

Itankyou2 votes

Dunky is a pleb, he wasn't even entertaining.

Atleast Tyler 1 is entertaining. He deserved his ban though

Riots system is fine.

zacktootall3 votes

fortunately dunky had jokes the only joke tyler had was his fan base

HexaDecimel3 votes

http://i63.tinypic.com/2uhnuyc.gif

LostFr0st5 votes

They do ban the trolls and feeders though. They just don't often come to the forums to ask to be unbanned since they know what they did. Raging at someone who is feeding/playing bad won't get them to play better. That's just something people need to understand. If you post the chat logs, the community can pick out the bits that were ban-able.

zacktootall1 votes

ok so words are banable but actions are a hell of a lot less banable? oh sorry i said hell am i going to get banned now. when it comes to a game you most of the time do not get the baby treatment. should we start banning character cuz they say bad words or mean phrases to you? how about that game over screen that is one meen son of a bitch we should remove that from all the games that have it for basically saying "you fucking suck" to your face. why the hell would we care what a person says in a video game when the video game itself says you suck when you see a defeat screen toxicity is one part of what makes the back bone of any video game, why? cuz it is a basic nature of a human to be angry, to take in, and to dish out pain. we are human we make video games this is why games are like this. so the day toxicity leaves humanity is the day the human race dies.

EvilDustMan3 votes

{quoted}

ok so words are banable but actions are a hell of a lot less banable? oh sorry i said hell am i going to get banned now. when it comes to a game you most of the time do not get the baby treatment. should we start banning character cuz they say bad words or mean phrases to you? how about that game over screen that is one meen son of a bitch we should remove that from all the games that have it for basically saying "you fucking suck" to your face. why the hell would we care what a person says in a video game when the video game itself says you suck when you see a defeat screen toxicity is one part of what makes the back bone of any video game, why? cuz it is a basic nature of a human to be angry, to take in, and to dish out pain. we are human we make video games this is why games are like this. so the day toxicity leaves humanity is the day the human race dies.

No, but you should be capable of reacting in a reasonable manner instead of spewing vomit and bile and hate.

BLACKLlVESMATTER1 votes

{quoted}

No, but you should be capable of reacting in a reasonable manner instead of spewing vomit and bile and hate.

Thank you, this poster have said it all. I do not understand, why is it so hard to understand, if you cant say nice things dont say it. Its RIOTS game RIOTS laws and rules. No one is forcing the player to play the game.

I relia miss you1 votes

Lol this coming from "Black Lives Matter." Umm how about you change your summoner name or just not post such hypocrisy here. Every recent BLM video has been racist bigotry against whites because they can't understand not to say nice things. Yet here you are on league asking for nice words.

zacktootall1 votes

ill allow your smack talk in game but not on the boards that is someone's name, their identity. your going to mock that here where the only thing you can do is use words then get out or be nicer.

zacktootall1 votes

so the punishment should be harder on useless words instead of feeding?

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

so the punishment should be harder on useless words instead of feeding?

They would both get punished.

zacktootall1 votes

would being the key word here. are? nope. and are you saying they should be of evenly punished? sorry if i take a punch more seriously then being told i'm a bitch.

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

would being the key word here. are? nope. and are you saying they should be of evenly punished? sorry if i take a punch more seriously then being told i'm a bitch.

You are right. Feeders are more heavily punished by the system. And feeding isn't throwing a punch.

zacktootall1 votes

but feeders are not getting punished nearly as bad as someone dropping the word fuck in chat. you get the point tho right? feeding is the action just like throwing a punch is a action

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

but feeders are not getting punished nearly as bad as someone dropping the word fuck in chat. you get the point tho right? feeding is the action just like throwing a punch is a action

You think they don't. But they do. It isn't as visible because more people complain about their chats. But people come here all the time to complain about their chat bans. It is likely there are fewer feeders than toxicity bans.

zacktootall1 votes

Ok so this may sound general that is because it is i'm having similar chats with 3 other people. this is starting to be tough mostly because one of you keeps going off the topic slightly and i'm not going to name who, if your smart you will know who you are.

my opinion on this topic is that yes toxicity is a problem but the thing that truly kills this game at least for me is the trolling except chat trolling, because i could give less of a damn what your calling me in chat.

anyway the other thing that i found and this is completely support by the video in the post is that most (not all i'll give you that but most) the toxicity in games is because someone was trolled or is being trolled.

sure every once in a while you get that person that just wants to see the world burn via chat but in the video dunky was provoked by the moron feeding his heart out to the enemy.

now i don't know about you but if i get punched in the face i'm going to be pissed and i'm going to have a few choice words to say (and if you don't then i respect man, balls of steel) and to that one person that said feeding and punching are two different yes yes they are but what do both have in common they are actions.

rounding it all out here if there was anyway to try to put a dent in to stomping out toxicity it is not in hitting it head on but finding where a good majority of it comes from and stopping that. that would be a better way to go about this instead of continuously banning those who if the troll wasn't there would otherwise been scott free

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

Ok so this may sound general that is because it is i'm having similar chats with 3 other people. this is starting to be tough mostly because one of you keeps going off the topic slightly and i'm not going to name who, if your smart you will know who you are.

my opinion on this topic is that yes toxicity is a problem but the thing that truly kills this game at least for me is the trolling except chat trolling, because i could give less of a damn what your calling me in chat.

anyway the other thing that i found and this is completely support by the video in the post is that most (not all i'll give you that but most) the toxicity in games is because someone was trolled or is being trolled.

sure every once in a while you get that person that just wants to see the world burn via chat but in the video dunky was provoked by the moron feeding his heart out to the enemy.

now i don't know about you but if i get punched in the face i'm going to be pissed and i'm going to have a few choice words to say (and if you don't then i respect man, balls of steel) and to that one person that said feeding and punching are two different yes yes they are but what do both have in common they are actions.

rounding it all out here if there was anyway to try to put a dent in to stomping out toxicity it is not in hitting it head on but finding where a good majority of it comes from and stopping that. that would be a better way to go about this instead of continuously banning those who if the troll wasn't there would otherwise been scott free

Your reply implies there are not systems in place to catch feeding and trolling and punish those things. There are.

Furthermore, your reply doesn't take into account that your rage towards this individual is exactly what they want. Think about it. Someone trolling Dunkey WANTS Dunkey to lay into him. So he'll do it more. If Dunkey muted him and just tried to play and didn't mention the guy in his video, he wouldn't have gotten the five minutes of fame he wanted.

Okay, you get mad. But you have to recognize that just spewing out your anger makes things worse. You are actively making things worse by engaging.

zacktootall1 votes

well then i'm damned if i do and damned if i don't then cuz you nor i can mute feeding but if everyone just turned away then there is nothing done about it so you mean to tell me to not even try to understand the troll's ideals cuz i'm sure as hell going to try to dissuade him from doing it more

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

well then i'm damned if i do and damned if i don't then cuz you nor i can mute feeding but if everyone just turned away then there is nothing done about it so you mean to tell me to not even try to understand the troll's ideals cuz i'm sure as hell going to try to dissuade him from doing it more

And you really think flaming him is going to make him stop?

zacktootall1 votes

well do you really think doing nothing is going to do the same thing? because that is what i'm seeing you say

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

well do you really think doing nothing is going to do the same thing? because that is what i'm seeing you say

Negativity begets negativity.

Doing nothing / being positive at least has the CHANCE of defusing the situation. Therefore, logically, it is the best option.

zacktootall1 votes

you act like they troll out of anger yet more often then not it is cuz they are "bored" and want to get banned to either have a reason to no longer play or become smurfs witch oh hey look at that more toxicity

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

you act like they troll out of anger yet more often then not it is cuz they are "bored" and want to get banned to either have a reason to no longer play or become smurfs witch oh hey look at that more toxicity

I didn't say they troll out of anger, I'm saying they troll to get a reaction out of you. Your anger is what they want.

zacktootall1 votes

that doesn't mean that they will stop when they don't get the reaction they want another one where damned if you do damned if you don't

LostFr0st2 votes

No, it's that actions are just harder to catch. Words are clean-cut and can be copy-pasted. For actions you need to carefully study character movement during the game which requires deeper inspection. Not everyone buys 6 tears. The new system to detect player-bots was one such system, and it caught a couple new players by accident last week. They've since used those cases to refine the system. Riot has come a long way and still has far to go on punishing behaviour issues.

zacktootall1 votes

but they still haven't gotten to the point that we all have gotten to way back in elementary school words do not matter and this is league of legends not league of babys riot needs to stop trying to protect us from words and start from actions

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

Words don't matter is just something you say to comfort someone after the fact. It doesn't excuse the garbage that was said in the first place. It didn't in elementary school and it doesn't now.

zacktootall1 votes

yes but just like garbage you have to deal with it welcome to life where dealing with it is all you can do

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

Muting and reporting is dealing with it. That kind of thing isn't possible in every aspect of life, but in many it is.

You can't stop all of it from happening because you can never preempt it, but you can remove the people doing it and improve things in the long term.

zacktootall1 votes

yes but muting and reporting is not going to stop them from intentionally feeding or other types of trolling. harsher punishment on an action then on a word would change that. that is the system needed yet has not been implemented

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

Both intentional feeding and trolling are 2 step to permaban. The issue is that they are much harder to determine.

Words have defined meanings so it is much easier to judge. Actions don't. Most trolling is just doing something at an inappropriate time. It isn't about what they are doing, it is about interpreting the intentions behind the actions. They are already punishable, and more severe than non hate speech chat offenses. They just require manual reviews and are hard to definitively determine.

zacktootall1 votes

Ok so this may sound general that is because it is i'm having similar chats with 3 other people. this is starting to be tough mostly because one of you keeps going off the topic slightly and i'm not going to name who, if your smart you will know who you are.

my opinion on this topic is that yes toxicity is a problem but the thing that truly kills this game at least for me is the trolling except chat trolling, because i could give less of a damn what your calling me in chat.

anyway the other thing that i found and this is completely support by the video in the post is that most (not all i'll give you that but most) the toxicity in games is because someone was trolled or is being trolled.

sure every once in a while you get that person that just wants to see the world burn via chat but in the video dunky was provoked by the moron feeding his heart out to the enemy.

now i don't know about you but if i get punched in the face i'm going to be pissed and i'm going to have a few choice words to say (and if you don't then i respect man, balls of steel) and to that one person that said feeding and punching are two different yes yes they are but what do both have in common they are actions.

rounding it all out here if there was anyway to try to put a dent in to stomping out toxicity it is not in hitting it head on but finding where a good majority of it comes from and stopping that. that would be a better way to go about this instead of continuously banning those who if the troll wasn't there would otherwise been scott free

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

{quoted}

my opinion on this topic is that yes toxicity is a problem but the thing that truly kills this game at least for me is the trolling except chat trolling, because i could give less of a damn what your calling me in chat.

Thats fine to think that, but you have to understand that you are just 1 opinion of millions. While I would agree that trolling is somewhat worse. The toxic people simply make the game unenjoyable. They are just people I have no interest in being around. Rarely is the toxicity that I see directed towards me. Toxic people are just pests buzzing around your head. Sure toxicity is easier to deal with in the moment, but at the end of a game with a troll or a toxic person, I'm thinking the same thing--I wish I hadn't played that game.

anyway the other thing that i found and this is completely support by the video in the post is that most (not all i'll give you that but most) the toxicity in games is because someone was trolled or is being trolled.

Some toxicity is the result of trolling sure. But not all. In my experience not even most or even much. I have played something like 8000 games and have seen like maybe 10 trolls total. I have see 100s if not thousands of toxic people. Though, tbh, not that many recently. Trolling is rare. Most of the people raging at "trolls" are really raging at people who are doing things like playing poorly(losing, not intentional feeding), differences of opinions on things like champion choice/builds, and disagreement of strategy.

sure every once in a while you get that person that just wants to see the world burn via chat but in the video dunky was provoked by the moron feeding his heart out to the enemy.

It's been a while but that whole story has been skewed to shit. If I

now i don't know about you but if i get punched in the face i'm going to be pissed and i'm going to have a few choice words to say (and if you don't then i respect man, balls of steel) and to that one person that said feeding and punching are two different yes yes they are but what do both have in common they are actions.

Your "few choice words" are useless and unwelcome here. There is nothing to be accomplished by venting your frustration at people. All you are doing is moving your frustration to everyone else in the game. If someone punches you then punching them back has a reasonable chance of stopping them. If someone is intentionally feeding, raging at them does not have any meaningful chances of stopping them.

rounding it all out here if there was any way to try to put a dent in to stomping out toxicity it is not in hitting it head on but finding where a good majority of it comes from and stopping that. that would be a better way to go about this instead of continuously banning those who if the troll wasn't there would otherwise been scott free

They have made a massive dent in toxicity. It still exists, sure. And probably always will. But it is massively better. People just don't realize the impact they have on the attitudes of those in their games. The impact even simple things like a polite greeting can change everyone's attitude. By the same token, people jumping on each other can have a swift negative impact.

It's a vicious cycle. The rage feeds the trolls. If no one ever responded to them most would just get bored and move on. But that doesn't happen because there are people lined up around the block to give them exactly what they want. By retaliating the only thing you do is make yourself a part of a huge problem, toxicity.

Sure, the bear is a problem, but so is the guy who keeps poking it.

Toxicity is all downside, no upside.

zacktootall1 votes

you are unfortunately impossible to talk too because it is easy to see you don't read everything and you must be one of the luckiest people in the world for playing over 8000 games and not running into at least a 4th of those in trolls go buy a loto ticket. and if there was a massive dent then why do we still see so much of it? and what do you expect me to do be an idiot and say it is perfectly fine to do what the fuck those trolls are doing and continue to lose games no fucking thank you

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

It's not luck. People affect the attitudes of those around them. I am respectful, I compromise where I can. It is a team game and that means working with other people. Not just other people doing what you want. People still see a lot of it because they are triggering it in those around them with their own negative attitudes.

But even if you had a troll in every single game. The answer to how to respond to them is the same. Mute/ignore them, play the game as best you can, and report them at the end. You don't have to be fine with it, but you do have to put up with it for the rest of the game. Your rage isn't going to stop them. It just makes things worse for everyone involved.

Reporting is the one and only thing that is capable of improving the troll situation. Raging feeds the trolls and makes you another problem that needs to be dealt with and that is going to detract from efforts to tackle trolls as well.

zacktootall1 votes

ok you just proved that trolls add more toxicity second you are lucky cuz you haven't run into anybody with the kind of attitude that doesn't mesh with your own. and so you hope and that because you mute them they will stop? then if they don't you report and hope that riot deals with them? you think that basically doing nothing is the best solution? reporting maybe the only way we can do it but it is not the only way we will do it or at least not until this "system" gets better by a lot.

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

No one ever argued that trolls don't add toxicity. Obviously they do. Its not luck. I run into all kinds of people with attitudes that don't mesh with mine. But I can interact and work with people that don't fit with my normal playstyle or attitude.

Muting is not going to stop them. It is just to keep them distracting you more than is necessary. Personally I almost never mute people. I can ignore them just fine. Id rather leave the chat open in case they ever have something useful to say. Muting isn't about stopping them. If someone has decided to ruin the game. There is nothing to stop them. The game is over when someone decides to troll. Everything after that is just damage control.

Doing nothing and reporting at the end of the game is the best solution. Everything other than "mute/ignore them, play the game out the best you can, and report at the end" has no practical chance of improving the situation and is almost guaranteed to make it worse.

LostFr0st1 votes

It's not the words that the system detects, it's the context too. Just because one person is raised somewhere where the language filter and racial slur filter is more lax it doesn't mean the rest of the server should have to listen to it. The report system is litterally adjusted based on what WE say is unnacceptable. If all of us stopped reporting "ggez" or "ur scrubs" then it would probably fly right under the system's radar completely. WE made the list; Riot just compiled it.

zacktootall1 votes

but the words we use is not what we are talking about here. its words vs. actions that we are talking about the system that should be punishing bad actions but is instead punishing bad words and contexts (if you going to be like that)

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

but they still haven't gotten to the point that we all have gotten to way back in elementary school words do not matter and this is league of legends not league of babys riot needs to stop trying to protect us from words and start from actions

^We are talking about words AND actions. Yes, it's indeed possible to punish both; we don't have to pick.

So, they do punish BOTH but words are easier to detect accurately and prove with solid evidence (the logs they show the offender when they punish). They keep improving the troll detection system as well but humans and trolls adapt and change their methods, so the system needs to adapt too (which it does).

zacktootall1 votes

Ok so this may sound general that is because it is i'm having similar chats with 3 other people. this is starting to be tough mostly because one of you keeps going off the topic slightly and i'm not going to name who, if your smart you will know who you are.

my opinion on this topic is that yes toxicity is a problem but the thing that truly kills this game at least for me is the trolling except chat trolling, because i could give less of a damn what your calling me in chat.

anyway the other thing that i found and this is completely support by the video in the post is that most (not all i'll give you that but most) the toxicity in games is because someone was trolled or is being trolled.

sure every once in a while you get that person that just wants to see the world burn via chat but in the video dunky was provoked by the moron feeding his heart out to the enemy.

now i don't know about you but if i get punched in the face i'm going to be pissed and i'm going to have a few choice words to say (and if you don't then i respect man, balls of steel) and to that one person that said feeding and punching are two different yes yes they are but what do both have in common they are actions.

rounding it all out here if there was anyway to try to put a dent in to stomping out toxicity it is not in hitting it head on but finding where a good majority of it comes from and stopping that. that would be a better way to go about this instead of continuously banning those who if the troll wasn't there would otherwise been scott free

LostFr0st1 votes

What we really need to solve this would be a breakdown of what people get banned for.

People who get banned for chat post on the boards. People who get banned for actions just don't. They know what they did and that the community won't back them up. Not sure how much better I can word this.

There's a big difference between harassing a feeding teammate and responding to one that is following you around in the jungle or duo-miding. The second one is trolling for sure, the other one is a grey case.

The action ban-screening probably takes more time than the verbal one, so they get more games in before they are banned. You also have to take into account that bans happen in waves too and that even if the person is banned the damage is already done. It's not like Riot can just remove people from the game (the one game they are currently trolling in) if they are suspected of trolling. They always have to review it first and then act on it, so no feedback to the hurt person/team.

As a side note, Dunkey didn't get banned right after the Malphite game. If you look up the riot comments regarding his ban you'll find it stated that in the game he got banned for there wasn't even a Malphite. Dunkey was banned after consistently harassing other players out of 'fun' and I'm pretty sure 'meatwadsprite' only got to the 14-day ban stage (not perma) and at that point Dunkey decided to announce that he would no longer make League content his focus.

zacktootall1 votes

all i'm hearing from this is that the system does work needs a lot of improvements. this is going to be a hell hole of a game for one hell of a long time then. and are you seriously trying to say the guy in the video was not intentionally feeding? cuz i saw him go deep under tower with out minions so....

LostFr0st1 votes

No, I'm saying that wasn't the game that got him banned though it says so in the vid. 'that Malphite' was also not in every one of Dunkey's games (obviously) so he didn't get the 14 day ban from only raging at feeders.

zacktootall1 votes

ok i get it. the part where you said "There's a big difference between harassing a feeding teammate... The second one is trolling for sure, the other one is a grey case." is what i was talking about tho

LostFr0st1 votes

I gotchu. So what do you suggest Riot do about it then? They still haven't reinstated the part of the tribunal where we can help them directly to look at the grey cases (other than reporting) yet so idk.

zacktootall1 votes

well they should take this stuff more seriously and start focusing on making things like the tribunal to get these sort of things under control then they should push out something that will handle these problems better then the current problem solving thing cuz it is needed

LostFr0st1 votes

They do take it seriously, but they already told us that they need the new client first for the tribunal (if/when they bring it back). The latest improvements to the punishment system were for catching the leveling bots (which must have been a ton of work) so they're probably looking at improving something else now. They're handling one at a time, it's like whack-a-mole though.

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