If my jungler forgets smite, there should be something that stops champion select.

PromiseImBronze·Apr 5, 2018·12 votes·1,949 views

I don't understand why it's okay that a ranked game starts when one team doesn't have a smite. The game should recognize that the jungler is either alt+tabbed or not paying attention. I can't count how many times my entire team has full tilted and I've lost LP due to someone forgetting smite. This person then proceeds to report our whole team for flaming and tilting when they actually threw the game because they weren't properly paying attention in champion select, even after we typed multiple times in the chat that they were forgetting smite.

41 Comments

ChermorgApr 5, 201810 votes

The issue here is that it is a slippery slope. Jungle may almost universally take smite now, but what happens when someone finds a very viable strategy that doesn't use smite? What happens when Riot next says "ok now ADC must take heal" or "top must have teleport".

While smite is almost universally taken, it is not mandatory and Riot does not and will not enforce a meta - regardless of how universal it is.

VonyaloApr 5, 20181 votes

but what happens when someone finds a very viable strategy that doesn't use smite?

Riot fixes that? People found out that it's better to sacrifice attack speed and get tabis on adc - and they got nerfed :\

Umbral RegentApr 5, 20184 votes

He said "viable", not "used more than necessary". It's one thing for a build to be viable - say, taking Ignite instead of Smite on a Champion with strong innate sustain in the Jungle - but it's another thing altogether when an item is being used for more than its intended purposes.

Ninja Tabi on bottom laners would be okay - if it didn't cause problems or uninteresting gameplay. 'Cause, wouldn't it be fun if you decided one day to play bottom lane, and went up against a Caitlyn ADC who started with a Doran's Shield, rushed Ninja Tabi, was running Fleet Footwork + Overheal, and had a healing Support like Sona/Soraka?

Granted, it's unlikely to happen, but when you have people stacking defensive mechanics on what should be an offensive champion/role, to the point where there's not really much counterplay available except "all in and hope you win", the game becomes less fun.

And, bear in mind, I don't know if that's a potential angle Riot sees it from, but, still, from a player's perspective, it makes a ton of sense to nerf unduly safe builds/tactics.

Which - again, I have to reiterate, my example is a bit of an edge case, since most of the stuff I mentioned has been recently nerfed in defensive value and I genuinely know fuck-all about safe bottom lane builds, but I'm willing to wager that it's a plausible tactic that I'd genuinely hate to go against.

heroikcApr 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Riot fixes that? People found out that it's better to sacrifice attack speed and get tabis on adc - and they got nerfed :\

THere were some marksman who built Sterak's too, but they changed the item as melee only.

130xApr 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The issue here is that it is a slippery slope. Jungle may almost universally take smite now, but what happens when someone finds a very viable strategy that doesn't use smite? What happens when Riot next says "ok now ADC must take heal" or "top must have teleport".

While smite is almost universally taken, it is not mandatory and Riot does not and will not enforce a meta - regardless of how universal it is.

Riot will ban them Chermorg, we both know this. Even I myself have been punished for although doing well, simply too many reports for not following the meta.

Risen29Apr 5, 20186 votes

{quoted}

The issue here is that it is a slippery slope. Jungle may almost universally take smite now, but what happens when someone finds a very viable strategy that doesn't use smite? What happens when Riot next says "ok now ADC must take heal" or "top must have teleport".

While smite is almost universally taken, it is not mandatory and Riot does not and will not enforce a meta - regardless of how universal it is.

It's not viable, and never could be viable, for the simple reason that you need a jungle item to get full experience from jungle camps.

IF they removed the requirement of having a jungle item to get bonus experience from the jungle, THEN you might see plenty of legitimate junglers without smite.

It also wouldn't completely screw over the junglers who forget smite. Because right now it's a complete death sentence for the team. Not having a smite can be worked around. Even lacking the extra help of a jungle item is doable for some champions. But what completely screws you over is always being behind in levels, despite your clear speed, never able to compete.

If you're smurfing on a bronze account I'm sure you could still make it work, but against a competent team of equal skill it's a death sentence.

Ph03n1xdustApr 6, 20181 votes

Funny you try to argue with this guy, who mindlessly defends everything what Rito does.

But at least you made good points!

MarothennanApr 5, 20181 votes

You get way less xp from camps, you lose a TON of sustain while clearing camps and you can't secure objectives. It will NEVER be viable unless these 3 things change. Unless you want to play river shen ofc

OleandervineApr 5, 20183 votes

Not taking Smite will never be viable because Junglers require the jungle items for a large portion of their XP gain. Due to how pivotal and necessary Smite is to how junglers can even function in the game, there needs to be something in place to give them Smite - or at the very least Riot can actually do the right thing and bind the jungler items to the ROLE and not SMITE.

I am going to stress this again -** there will never be a viable alternative to taking Smite so long as Jungler XP is bound to the jungle items.**

Troll for TrumpApr 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The issue here is that it is a slippery slope. Jungle may almost universally take smite now, but what happens when someone finds a very viable strategy that doesn't use smite? What happens when Riot next says "ok now ADC must take heal" or "top must have teleport".

While smite is almost universally taken, it is not mandatory and Riot does not and will not enforce a meta - regardless of how universal it is.

That would be plausible if Riot didn't actively discourage it on account of Smite items

TheLegendaddyApr 7, 20181 votes

Here's an idea...make it so you can change your masteries or sum spells during load screen or before you leave base in game. tadaaaaaaaa I make the mistake of grabbing wrong runes all the time or i forget to change my summoner spells after going through CHAMP SELECT PROCESS OH I DON'T KNOW 3 - 4x BEFORE A GAME GOING THROUGH. So i can understand the annoyance

A Plastic BottleJun 13, 20181 votes

it does enforce the meta because i just played a game where i forgot smite and i got reduced exp didnt get lvl 2 from killing blue

130xApr 5, 20185 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand why it's okay that a ranked game starts when one team doesn't have a smite. The game should recognize that the jungler is either alt+tabbed or not paying attention. I can't count how many times my entire team has full tilted and I've lost LP due to someone forgetting smite. This person then proceeds to report our whole team for flaming and tilting when they actually threw the game because they weren't properly paying attention in champion select, even after we typed multiple times in the chat that they were forgetting smite.

I agree, jungle is impossible without having smite. This is due to decreased jg mobs and exp dependant on the item that can only be purchased with smite.

What would work the best imo, would be to give only the jg role, only when he doesnt get smite, one more option before he leaves the well for the first time to trade for smite. That way it wouldnt be forced, could not be used for advantages, and would simply serve as a fall back in case some one simply forgot to change the spell. I have been thrown from role to role in a few games and simply forgot to get it in the past myself. Noticing it in the load in screen, knowing it was an insta loss. :(

Umbral RegentApr 5, 20182 votes

...jungle is impossible without having smite.

Actually, Jungling without Smite is perfectly possible, it just puts you at an early disadvantage to not have Smite/Jungle items.

I've seen an Udyr forget Smite and still wreck face - more than that, I've seen a Kha'Zix, of all Champions, forget smite and still go on a full-blown killing spree despite the early disadvantage.

It may be impossible for you to Jungle without Smite (and I know it'd certainly be hell for me to try), but there are definitely people out there with the skill to do it.

JhynxApr 5, 20182 votes

Those are champs like udyr and kha who have enough jungle clear and strength to still get kills

A LOT of other champs dont.

HalcyonDwellerApr 5, 20182 votes

To be honest, when I see the enemy team has no smite, I drop deep wards and invade to smite steal their buffs away from them.

It's a dick move, but hey, strategy right?

Going smiteless is a huge disadvantage unless you have someone like Cho, Kalista, Twitch or Nunu to secure neutral monsters late game.

Umbral RegentApr 5, 20182 votes

To be honest, when I see the enemy team has no smite, I drop deep wards and invade to smite steal their buffs away from them.

It's a dick move, but hey, strategy right?

Yeah. Thankfully, the realm of strategy is pretty well-divorced from that of honor. If you can cripple your foes and seize advantages in the same turn -, heh. No reason not to.

Going smiteless is a huge disadvantage unless you have someone like Cho, Kalista, Twitch or Nunu to secure neutral monsters late game.

Agreed. While I only see things in the micro-scale (ability to fight and make a personal impact on the game), I should never forget the macro impact it has (ability to take objectives and make a non-personal impact). I could probably go on here, there, and yon about it, but, for the sake of not digressing too far out of the realm of Player Behavior, all I can rightly say is this;

There are a whole host of possibilities and variables to consider in a given match, but altogether, everyone can agree that it's much, much better overall that Smite is taken.

HalcyonDwellerApr 5, 20182 votes

Fair points, I'm with you all the way. +1

Lux OPApr 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RHfjhAN6,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-04-05T13:40:02.291+0000)

Actually, Jungling without Smite is perfectly possible, it just puts you at an early disadvantage to not have Smite/Jungle items.

I've seen an Udyr forget Smite and still wreck face - more than that, I've seen a Kha'Zix, of all Champions, forget smite and still go on a full-blown killing spree despite the early disadvantage.

It may be impossible for you to Jungle without Smite (and I know it'd certainly be hell for me to try), but there are definitely people out there with the skill to do it.

Jungling without Smite means not being able to take/secure objectives like rift, dragon, or baron. For a strategy to be viable, it can't be be giving away game-changing buffs that are integral to competitive play. If people want to jungle without smite they should choose the Blind Pick game mode. You can basically do anything in Blind Pick except int/afk. Not taking Smite in draft/ranked is trolling simply because of how critical it is for securing or challenging buffs and objectives- elements of the game that your team are familiar with and can structure their play around. If the enemy jungler sees you don't have Smite, he's going to gank you at red buff or ask his lane to do it for him, and he's going to go hyper-aggro on your lanes because he knows you're at least a level or two behind. It just gives a huge disadvantage in so many ways. Yes, people can win without smite, but it leaves a hole in competitive play

HalcyonDwellerApr 5, 20185 votes

Simplest solution is to just automatically set someone who's assigned jungle to have smite in their spells by default. If they actually want to play smiteless then they're free to switch, but at least this way it would never happen on accident.

Telephone BoothApr 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Simplest solution is to just automatically set someone who's assigned jungle to have smite in their spells by default. If they actually want to play smiteless then they're free to switch, but at least this way it would never happen on accident.

Man... you're a smart one. The intent pick idea, where you pick something similar to the champ you want to play, and now this... you're an idea man! Lol

HalcyonDwellerApr 7, 20181 votes

Thanks? I appreciate your appreciation, provided that you are being genuine.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Telephone BoothApr 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Thanks? I appreciate your appreciation, provided that you are being genuine.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Lol I know, hard to believe it's just a random compliment. But that's all it is xD

HalcyonDwellerApr 7, 20181 votes

Lol thank you then, sorry for qualifying my response at first. Just used to people being different around here.

AJStarhikerApr 7, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Simplest solution is to just automatically set someone who's assigned jungle to have smite in their spells by default. If they actually want to play smiteless then they're free to switch, but at least this way it would never happen on accident.

Why limit it to just jungle? Let us assign prefered spells to each role. As you point out, it wouldn't be locked in but, especially for someone who rotates positions and champions, it would be a very nice QoL change.

HalcyonDwellerApr 7, 20181 votes

OwO WANT!

Seriously you just took my moderately useful idea and dialed it up to 11 :D I didn't know I wanted this until you suggested it but now... like holy shit. Yes!

VenompawApr 5, 20184 votes

it is not viable to jungle without smite. The best recourse is Duo top (which is a viable strategy.)

BattalionApr 5, 20183 votes

That's an overreaction, however I would like the game, at the 10 second mark, to give a pop-up warning that their summoner spell selection does not contain the key summoner for their role.

Support: Exhaust ADC: Heal Mid: who cares Jungle: Smite Top: TP

Liquid Poro Apr 5, 20183 votes

I don't take exhaust often but ignite if your aggressive

Kei143Apr 5, 20182 votes

They just need to make it customizable.

Customizable default summoner spells per lane, that is assigned to game modes.

Liquid Poro Apr 6, 20181 votes

Of course.

deathgod5Apr 5, 20183 votes

Alternatively, they could also make it so that smite is selected by default for junglers on their non-flash key.

HalcyonDwellerApr 5, 20182 votes

I think this is the best solution, it's simple and still gives the player the opportunity to switch spells afterwards if they prefer to play smiteless. This has the best chance of preventing unhappy accidents.

EschetonApr 5, 20182 votes

You can easily duo top or duo jungle for first clear to get them on their feet.

MarothennanApr 5, 20181 votes

You think forgetting smite is bad? I had a Tryndamere jungle who picked ignite instead of smite INTENTIONALLY Needless to say we lost...

TotalwanabeApr 5, 20181 votes

If my jungler forgets smite, there should be something that stops champion select. Yes there is something it's called leave the queue if you don't like smiteless jungler.

BrothaApr 5, 20181 votes

As a jungle main who has had his fair share of smite mistakes I approve this. As is I simply force a remake and take the LP loss so my allies do not have to.