Kill Stealing Truths

Azitu MuerteLuna·Nov 13, 2016·6 votes·2,194 views

Listen, read, comprehend. Kill stealing is a real term used to describe real events. This is a team based game. If you steal kills from your adc and you're the support that's not good. If you go to aid your adc in killing someone and the adc dies, you are not kill stealing. In fact they might not have been able to get the kill or the assist at all if it weren't for you. Kill Stealing is a bad thing when you go out of your way to do it. It causes the adc or carry to lose money and consequently lose the match for the team even if you are a carry of sorts.

However if you are helping a lane who got ganked and would be dying otherwise or does and then that person wants to get rageful just tell em Kill Secured and watch them get so mad they start dying and lose the game for the team.

Seriously. Get a better attitude about teamwork fundamentals and maybe LoL will have a community worth playing with.

28 Comments

ZelorxonNov 13, 20163 votes

PSA: LEAGUE OF LEGENDS IS NOT CALL OF DUTY, KILL STEAL IS NOT A CONCEPT THAT APPLIES IN LEAGUE OF LEGENDS.

TrulyBlandNov 13, 20162 votes

Wasting ressources and bad teamplay are, though. And this is what OP is talking about.

ZelorxonNov 13, 20161 votes

Not at all, if i'm a support and i'm getting fed i can buy items faster, go roam to other lanes, put behind the enemy while the adc farms, i had dozens of games where my support had 2-3 kills and i was 7/0 as braum, i carried those games withoyt even breaking a sweat, what matters is that you remove the enemy from the map, this way you can manipulate the wave to your advantage and go for ebjectives with your opponent unable to contest (OMG RITO PLZ NO COUTNERAPLAY NADC NEFR RENGAR NERF BAR DEWORK OP OP REPORT NERF!). Kills are not there to make your pee pee feel bigger, kills are there to make you win.

This is when you stop being a burden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43IlSomhiC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSQWcHIl5oc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XYUCsioJBQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQz3yU5tzJ0

TrulyBlandNov 13, 20161 votes

Kills are not there to make your pee pee feel bigger, kills are there to make you win.

Exactly. So why is it so important that you get them? I mean, OP specifically said: "Kill Stealing is a bad thing when you go out of your way to do it." This isn't about you getting a kill during a fight. It's about intentionally snatching the lasthit on the kill.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 13, 20161 votes

if the enemy dies and both get gold from the kill... and the adc (lets assume bot lane with support) gets to free farm and gain cs lead in addition to the asst gold and the experience advantage then its fine. the enemy died they lose gold/experience / farm and lane control. as the adc who got their kill stolen you still get the experience , gold and cs lead and still pull out ahead...

the important thing is to win the game and stop crying over KDA

TrulyBlandNov 13, 20161 votes

But that's just the exact reason why intentional kill steals are so bad. If you try to intentionally get the last hit, you have to hold back some kind of reliable damage, be it a nuke or an autoattack. And in that case there are two (and a half) options: A) The kill was not 100% secure yet, in which case you risked the enemy getting away, for the sake of getting the lasthit. B) The kill was 100% secure, in which case you can actually "donate" the kill if you believe the other participants can use the last hit gold better than you, which for some support/adc combinations is absolutely the case.

As far as I am concerned "kill steal" is a misnomer for a certain type of shortsighted ego-driven decision. Not all "kill steals" are like that, of course... but some certainly are.

ZelorxonNov 13, 20161 votes

In this case i agree completely, but again, this is a thought born from people who want to "look good" instead of being useful, in this case it can even be dangerous, i got killed so many times because the support didn't dished out the damage and i got killed for 10 hp

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 13, 20161 votes

how does my statement advocate kill steals are bad ? im a lil confused by your reply

TrulyBlandNov 13, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Qg7PY7ri,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-13T16:53:02.281+0000)

how does my statement advocate kill steals are bad ? im a lil confused by your reply

The very last part:

the important thing is to win the game and stop crying over KDA

A certain type of kill steal harms the chance to win the game. For example wasting high cd spells only for the sake of getting the kill, without making the kill more secure.

But possibly even more important: Your argument starts with this:

if the enemy dies

And that's the issue. If you hold back a spell intentionally, again, only for the sake of getting the kill, you are lowering your chance of actually bringing home the kill.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 13, 20161 votes

but if you get the kill you gain the advantage and can get a cs lead, experience and be able to take objectives by KILL SECURING

if i flash in and ult as a sona in bot lane and i secure a kill getting away and that leads to us taking bot turret and rotating to drag over me using my ult and flash then ill take it cuz that long cd of flash and my ult being down not only got a kill (giving asst gold to adc/jungler) we got turret (objective / map control team gold) then we take a drag ( effective gold by stats, gold for the jungler or who ever last hits it) and takes that objective from the enemy ( denial of stats and gold to enemy player/team ) then it is completely worth

TrulyBlandNov 13, 20162 votes

"Some cats are grey." "Nope, look at this one, it's white." "Yeah, but... there exist cats that are grey." "Nope, look, another white one."

This is our conversation right now.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 13, 20161 votes

i never stated kill stealing is bad ... you have

i stated with more the one point where KILL SECURING is always worth

TrulyBlandNov 13, 20161 votes

Yes, but not all kill steals are kill securing. Some are actively endangering the chance to get the kill, while others are made on kills that are objectively 100% safe.

Exchange "not all kill steals are kill securing" with "not all cats are white" and you get the previous analogy to the conversation we are having.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 13, 20161 votes

they are all cats regardless of the color and the are all kills and securing them

TrulyBlandNov 13, 20161 votes

They are all kills, not all of them are securing them. If somebody has Mordekaiser ult, four ignites, Malzahar E on them, has a guaranteed headshot from Caitlyn heading towards them while being surpressed by Warwick R and Malza R (without having QSS) while being below 100 HP and without allies to shield/heal them and you flash ult to get the kill, you are not securing anything. You are wasting cds that could be used more effectively and efficiently.

ZelorxonNov 13, 20161 votes

Personally speaking, any gold that isn't on me is wasted, so i would rather have it on me so i can do something instead of seeing it sitting there without being used.

(Besides that, i always give the kill when needed, and i'm good enough to secure it even if you are about to let it go, i have no problem CSing, both in lane and in jungle, so i take the kill only when i need a quick powerspike so i can get the job done, or when i realize giving it to you is a really bad idea.) Also, if you weren't clueless, you would realize that even 10 kills, at full gold value are like 3000 gold, at the end of the game you have around 20.000 gold, do the math and realize what you're saying. (I did it for you, it's around 15% of your gold income.)

But i guess that's the common logic between those who last aim is to actually improve and win the game.

TrulyBlandNov 13, 20161 votes

Personally speaking, any gold that isn't on me is wasted

I'd argue not trusting your teammates is a bad attitude to have... but it's still a mindest that I don't mind in regards to "kill steals". You are trying to improve your chance to win, rather than trying to establish yourself as the alpha-player with the most kills. We could go on and argue about whether this is the right way to do that, but as long winning is your ultimate goal, I have no problem with it.

As for the math around your gold: I generally agree. But it is a bit more complicated than that. More gold helps you gain even more gold. So the gold you get from an early kill, will be responsible for way more than just 1.5% of your gold, as that gold will have allowed you to buy more items, making more kills, having an easier time last hitting, etc.

Late game kill gold is just the cherry on top of the long death timer. But early kill gold really can help a champion spike ahead.

Der LindwurmFeb 8, 20183 votes

Kills belong to the team. No, you shouldn't go out of your way to snatch a kill for yourself, especially on an enemy who's clearly about to die anyway and you could be using your abilities to engage and contain more enemies. But, if things get really crazy and no one can afford to hold anything back, there's no sense getting upset about the fact that someone other than you got the kill.

ZenDaDemonFeb 8, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Der Lindwurm,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Qg7PY7ri,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-02-08T07:01:40.970+0000)

Kills belong to the team. No, you shouldn't go out of your way to snatch a kill for yourself, especially on an enemy who's clearly about to die anyway and you could be using your abilities to engage and contain more enemies. But, if things get really crazy and no one can afford to hold anything back, there's no sense getting upset about the fact that someone other than you got the kill.

Well the only reason i inserted my two cents was just had a match i was malzahar vs veigar and i had comboed him and he was guarenteed to die my lux support came from bot to e him and steal the kill which it wasnt the kill that angered me its the fact i made myself vulnerable by having everything on cd because of her yes i would still be cd if she hadnt taken it but the prize for the risk would have been greater

woodvsmurphNov 13, 20162 votes

You should probably be more specific about how it was "going out of their way" to ks. Ex: you had 1 auto left on enemy and were clearly going to land it, but your support flash ignite autos to steal it. That would be ks of the bad kind. Or, you were dueling lvl 3 in your bot lane 2v2 and both adc's were about to die. You probably could have landed killing auto on enemy adc, but your support landed a stun/flay/hook and auto to finish off the adc before you landed your final spell/auto. This is not ks. Similarly, enemy bot is fleeing to tower with 1 hit from dead. You are in range to flash auto and your support is too. You both flash auto, but support lands auto first and gets the kill. This is not ks. You should actually be happy with the support in those situations -- they were trying to save your life in "ks scenario 2" and they were trying to secure the kill while saving you from having to burn flash (which you may need to escape a gank later) by flashing to get the kill so you could still keep flash up. Thus in the 2nd and 3rd scenarios, the support is actually being a good support. Also, you have to realize depending on your elo/rank that most supports are treated like shit or at best ignored and unrecognized (when they play amazing and get their teammates fed or save their asses at cost of the support's life) most games. And if they are not ignored for that, they are flamed. Ex: jungler or mid makes stupid invade... support sacrifices him/herself to save them; support called noob/idiot feeder. Support expertly harasses enemy bot and sets up nice engage onto them 2v2 and lands his adc a kill where all adc had to do was land a point-n-click spell and a few autos. Support does this a few times and adc starts thinking they are a god while never thanking their support. Support pings fed enemy mid or jungle is coming to gank after they are both half hp pushing enemy tower due to winning said 2v2. Either: support backs off while adc ignores and dies, then flames support; or support stays, saves stupid adc who refused to back to safety in time and support dies to save stupid adc and support gets flamed. When supports get games like that all the time, yeah many of them will ks even when they wouldn't have to. Put yourself in their tier 2 mobi boots for a bit and try to imagine life from their perspective.

ph1234kNov 13, 20161 votes

As an ADC main (although I am trying to switch to a Mid main for this upcoming season), I rarely ever see actual kill steals. That is not to say my supports don't end up getting kills, but I don't see them going out of their way to do it. It is usually just necessity or accident which I expect in my elo anyways.

Stealing all the kills from the ADC can definitely make the game a bit harder however the vast majority of the time this doesn't happen and the kills that I don't get do not hinder me in performing my duties.

I have had the odd game where we have a Braum who got 8 kills in lane while I got 1 but again, this is not common

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 13, 20161 votes

people want to be able to 1 vs 1 everything regardless of their champ/build they all are worried about their personal KDA and how it PROVES THEY CARRIED (not) and THEY WANT TO GET THEIR S+ cuz they feel that if they dont they are getting cheated

Azitu MuerteLunaNov 13, 20161 votes

True. Unfortunately for them it is a team game and that person is less likely to be successful. Additionally if they are that good to be able to 1v5 a team and get their S it would behoove them to operate as a team at that level so they can continue to be S+ or whatever they want. In the end there is always more than just one person on the field.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoNov 13, 20161 votes

yet i win games getting A- and B for grades... sometimes the game is just a shitfest and your not gonna have a good kda for whatever reasons but that don t mean you cant win...

i dont play for the grade

DemothHymsideNov 13, 20161 votes

I once got super fed as Sona, mainly because my ADC couldn't follow up on anything I was doing, and would allow super low health enemies to retreat, so eventually I would flash Q for the kills he wouldn't get.

By mid game, I killed a mid lane Kat with an AA, Q, power chord AA, and helped our top lane get super fed. We won by a landslide despite our ADC bitching that I didn't get him fed.

Kei143Nov 13, 20161 votes

if my adc can't CA well, and positions horribly most the time, I'm more inclined to take the kill as support. Esp when I'm playing a kill support like zyra.

LetsGoJoeMyBroNov 14, 20161 votes

I mean if they're just standing right next to you waiting to last hit every single time, then you should report them for feeding. But if they don't mean to like on accident then let it slide.

ZenDaDemonFeb 8, 20181 votes

I see this is an old thread but to be fair if someone intentionally takes the kills and then trolls the team by not split pushing team fighting or in general being useful u cannot say that the assist gold helps its the equivalent of giving someone a sandwich on a single slice of bread when they havent eaten all day and you yourself Hiding all the rest of the food in the house even though ur not hungry