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Banned for two weeks for reasons Riot can't prove.

JediPadawanWPD··2 votes·854 views

So about a week ago or something I was banned for apparently being toxic but in the chat logs i was given the only toxic thing i had said was "ur brain dead my friend". And basically i took it to riot asking why I was banned and not just given a chat suspension is thats all i said that was toxic. After three tickets, because they kept closing them after not answering me, I decided to just stop it as I as getting no where. But in these they had flip flopped three times why i was banned. in the first ticket Jenny711 said i was banned for being toxic. Then in the second ticket Broken Blade told me I was banned for telling repeating what someone said, which was "%%%%%%" and "%%%got" as that is what i was called by the oriana adc, and asking the enemy team to report the oriana who called me a %%%%%% and %%%got. That was apparently why i was banned in the second ticket. So i provided them with an analogy, which i actually think was in the first ticket, I basically said if i was being robbed on the street and after it happened i ran down the road and asked someone to call the police, they wouldnt arrest me for telling that guy what happened and to call the police. They would arrest the guy who robbed me which is essentially what happened here. I was being harassed, told the enemy team what i was called and to report her. Never said ONE toxic thing back to the oriana. And after i had told her that she roughly just said "Im not here to argue i get what ur saying but were still banning you." which made no sense to me as I was being banned for no reason in my opinion. Like i said, i understood a chat suspension or something but not two whole weeks for that. Afterwords i opened a THIRD ticket as i looked in the terms of use and found that NO WHERE in there did it say i could not ask one player to report another one. What i did was not harassment because i had muted the Oriana when she called me a %%%%%% and %%%got and i never once said a rude racist homophobic or anything back to her. In the third ticket i provided evidence of other players telling the enemy team to report a player and riot employee The Orphan just said how that had nothing to do with me. He then gave me chat logs where i said "ur brain dead my friend", which i do agree deserved a chat suspension, but then just gave me chat logs of me being passive aggressive? Which I dont know how that is reportable. So first i was banned for being toxic, which i proved the wrong saying the only toxic thing i said was "ur brain dead" which does not deserve a two week ban. Then i was banned for asking to report the Oriana, which i once again proved them wrong as it says no where in their terms of use that i can not ask for reports. Then finally I was supposedly banned for being passive aggressive, which means we can report people for being passive aggressive lol. But AGAIN does being passive aggressive really deserve two weeks of a ban? I understand i did wrong things in these two games. And i would have 100% understood a chat suspension but a two whole week ban for saying "ur brain dead my friend" even though i was called a %%%%%% and %%%got and told to fuck off? Makes absolutely 0 sense to me. At all. I was also told that private messages are a different thing and there is no way to ban them or something from it. So basically guys if we just dont talk to someone all game we can report them for, asking a player to be reported, being passive aggressive, or just being toxic. Then after game we can add them and tell them they are worthless shit bags but because its in private messages Riot cant do anything LOL. Thank you for taking the time to read this and I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter, -JediPadawanWPD

Links to the three tickets in order first to third https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/30189824 https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/30223532 https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/30251446

31 Comments

Deep Terror Nami7 votes

Using hate speech is the reason you were escalated multiple punishment tiers at once. There's no tolerance for that sort of language whether you were using it to insult people or trying to get someone else reported for it.

76770164DEL14 votes

[deleted]

ModThe Djinn5 votes

{quoted}

That's moral applesauce. There is a world of difference between calling someone a "fggot" maliciously, and saying "That person called me a fggot". Failing to distinguish between the two is inexcusable; it's Orwellian- "you said the word, it doesn't matter the context, your state of mind- you are a hateful person, and must be banned!"

But, in a world where you can say "this person used a homosexual slur against me" and avoid the word altogether? A zero-tolerance policy is sometimes appropriate when there are such easy workarounds.

76770164DEL13 votes

[deleted]

This Is Your Dad2 votes

I agree with both The Djinn and Opteris here. The fact of the matter is it's a whole lot more complicated than either side can explain in one paragraph. I agree that the intent should matter, because many people who mean well but are manipulated into looking like the bad guy due to emotional instability or lack of social skills are subjected to punishments by the savvy and suave con men of the world. Something like this, where intent was clearly not malicious but was reported anyway, is nothing more than him taking the bait.

One example I like to use is: I own a bike. I set my bike down but do not lock it up. Someone steals my bike. I report my bike stolen, and am told that it was my fault for leaving it unlocked. There is both a fallacy and a logical statement in this: The thief should be at fault for stealing my bike. I should be more careful about my possessions/rights. It really isn't something that can be settled in one paragraph.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PBkIu6Nn,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-14T22:18:44.716+0000) I agree with both The Djinn and Opteris here.

I mean, to some extent so do I. I don't think the two cases are equivalent -- but I'd probably fall on the lines of a 7 to 14-day ban for simply repeating them, to reinforce the unacceptable nature of the words, and a PERMANENT ban on the first offense for using them to toss slurs at another player. The offenses are definitely not of the same magnitude, but if you don't punish both you'll find people finding ways to skirt ever closer to the line you now have set that there are SOME cases where those are okay.

What do you do if someone claims to just be repeating what a teammate said, but no teammate said it, for example? It gets complex FAST.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

That reminds me of another thing. Some people tell the enemy team to report their teammates and tell lies. "So and so called me a -insert profanity here-" please report. They never said those things. That's where the automated system fails... Behavior is not as calculable as it seems.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PBkIu6Nn,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-14T22:32:26.220+0000)

That reminds me of another thing. Some people tell the enemy team to report their teammates and tell lies. "So and so called me a -insert profanity here-" please report. They never said those things. That's where the automated system fails... Behavior is not as calculable as it seems.

Yep. And this is why I'm not really in favor of saying toxic vocabulary is "okay" in certain instances. People start finding ways to use those "acceptable" instances to troll or abuse other players. It's unfortunate.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

The fact that there is a system in place inherently leads to loopholes. Those that exploit loopholes are voracious and demented in their integrity, but have mastered the art of appearance. The only weapon against such evil is that of self-control. You must exert more control over yourself than another person can. As long as you look at it as controlling yourself/being controlled, you can stave off some of the "righteous anger" you may feel towards those that prod you so.

Chønklord2 votes

Um, the IFS wouldn't ban someone who never said a toxic thing...

Just because someone says "omg anti teemo called me a f%%%ot, report him", doesn't mean you would be banned, if you never said it to begin with.

If anything, that person typing a bannable word is the one more likely to be permabanned for saying it and for lying about it.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

I actually never meant to imply that the IFS would ban that person without evidence. What I meant when I said the automated system fails is that it fails to understand whether or not there is validity in the statements. So if someone called me a name or if they didn't, it wouldn't matter in the context of you repeating it back. I do see that there is a lack of clarity, I was following my own thoughts and did not appropriately explain myself when I made that leap. My apologies.

Chønklord1 votes

Still not following you.

The IFS can only punish a player for what that player has directly typed into chat, nothing more nothing less.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

Right, but what I was getting at is: Player 1: You %^&$ Player 2: Report Player 1 for calling me a %^&$

Results: Player 1 banned Player 2 banned

Chønklord1 votes

Ah, yes. gotcha.

I'm of the opinion that Riot has not done enough to make players aware of the IFS and how it functions.

While I am completely fine with a "zero tolerance policy", I am not fine with players being punished for lack of understanding of the reporting system due to failure on the Riot's part to make it explicitly understood -- regardless of context.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

I agree that Riot has not made the rules clear enough. You have to remember that there are varying age groups playing the game, of varying intelligence, emotional maturity, patience and understanding. The rules are there for any person to read, but like any binding agreement, no one reads them. It is the unfortunate problem with making every act of life a binding 300 page contract. People can't be expected to peruse everything they sign. Life has become paperwork, which is an unfortunate problem, as it has actually resulted in less informed people, rather than the other way around.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

Reports trigger a review of the game.

If nothing punishable is found in the review, it is discarded.

There isn't really any reason to ask for reports anyways. Doing so is pretty much just a form of harassment for no actual gain.

76770164DEL11 votes

[deleted]

This Is Your Dad1 votes

There were two parts to the bike analogy. I was just explaining both of them.

76770164DEL11 votes

[deleted]

This Is Your Dad2 votes

I upvoted you for your contribution. Don't let up and downvotes sway your opinion.

JediPadawanWPD1 votes

I understand that, As i actually said in the tickets which you cant see (sorry about that), but what im trying to get across to riot is did i truly deserve a two week ban for saying those words in a non-harassment non-rude way? I was called a "ngger" and a fggot" and told to "fck off" and I said no rude thing back, all i did was mute him and then say in all chat "This oriana just called me a N-- and a F-- please report her". I never said one rude thing at all but i got a whole two week ban? And like I said, I understood why i got the ban 100% but in no way do i think it should have been two weeks.

ModThe Djinn6 votes

We can't actually see your tickets. You'll have to copy/paste the text if you want us to read them.

That said, Deep Terror Nami already explained the situation.

JediPadawanWPD1 votes

Ya i apologize for that, I guess just take my word lmao I would post screenshots but im just kinda done with the situation

Kei1432 votes

you can try to get them to forward you to a behavioral specialist to review the account again as you were repeating what was being said.

No guarantees it would work though.

OnlyYouCanHearMe2 votes

{quoted} So i provided them with an analogy, which i actually think was in the first ticket, I basically said if i was being robbed on the street and after it happened i ran down the road and asked someone to call the police, they wouldnt arrest me for telling that guy what happened and to call the police. They would arrest the guy who robbed me which is essentially what happened here. I was being harassed, told the enemy team what i was called and to report her.

Here's something to think about with your analogy. When you reach the person that you are going to ask to call the police, are you going to pull a gun/knife on them and say "The guy robbed me just like this! Call the police!" Of course not. You don't have to show that man exactly how you were robbed before asking for his help. That's between you and the police.

And in the case of reporting someone, you don't have to tell the enemy team exactly what was said. That's between you and Riot. It's not necessary to ever ask for anyone else to report someone for you, but if you feel the need to do so, it's sufficient to say "Please report Player X for hate speech in team chat, thank you." You don't have to repeat the exact words. You shouldn't ever repeat them.

JediPadawanWPD1 votes

This is whats wrong with what you are saying though. Youre saying that in order for my analogy to work i would need to pull a knife on the guy and then tell him call the police but thats just not what happened. I didnt go "HEY YOU NGGERS GO REPORT THAT FGGOT ORIANA CAUSE SHE JUST CALLED ME NGGER AND FGGOT" No lol I literally said "Oriana called me ngger and faggot please report her" I was calm, never said a rude thing at all. My analogy still works haha

GreatWhiteNorth1 votes

This isn't a court of law.

Downvoting.

JediPadawanWPD1 votes

Just want you to know Riot Orphan actually told me to come here and tell the community what i thought, lmao

RuFiot1 votes

How the fk it got down voted and why the fk you think he should get punished, what is wrong with people here, wow just wow

JediPadawanWPD1 votes

So you guys. I understand where A LOT of you are coming from saying that i shouldnt have said the words I said just said "Please report oriana" of course i get that. But look at it this way. If i was to ask in all chat "Please report Oriana" they would go "Whys that?" and I cant just say "Thats between me and Riot sorry" they just simply wouldnt ban her lol. I had to give context for the reason of why i wanted her banned. And like alot of people say I shouldnt have said the word Ngger or fggot and i get that but i really personally dont think that deserved two weeks? When just two or so weeks ago in a game i had i was told to hang myself and then my friend played with him a day later showing that he wasnt banned when telling me those things. I dont know i just really honestly dont get it? And maybe im just babbling on and sounding like a broken record player but my point still stands in thinking that i should not have been banned for two weeks.

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