Boards›Player Behavior

INT FEEDERS

Oprebeach·Jan 17, 2018·2 votes·729 views

Ok this is getting out of hand RIOT, the INT feeding is becoming way to much these days especially seeing it now in placement games. Literally just had a NASUS top die 13 times in 20mins. He was standing in top lane letting the enemy kill him over and over. I don't believe for a second no dev has come up with some sort of program that can detect this shit. PUBG for instance that has a program that literally can count the movement speed in game for players based on normal movement and hacking movement and will ban cheaters. There's got to be a program that can detect deaths on someone die over and over in a matter of seconds. Something that will end the game and not count against especially while I'm in my placements. I know have a loss against me on my 5 game in after a 4 game winning streak in my placements that's going to be counted against me. All the money in the world and it's an ESPORTS game and I can't believe one second that there hasn't been programs built to end this crap. As a player serious learning trying to move up this is becoming more and more of an issue over the last season. There's got to be red flags when the shit is going on in placements. Like why would you INT FEED in your own placement game, makes no sense other than you want everyone else to suffer because you fail to want to really play and move up the ladder. I'd appreciate if a dev or somebody got back to me on this I'm highly upset, almost to the point as to why even try anymore in my placements. Call me cry baby or whatever you want I'm just saying what most of you are thinking. What is the point in placements and ranking and a ladder system, if you can't control the feeders and trolls? How is one suppose to take it serious knowing there a 50/50 chance my next game has a int feeder in it. Something has to give Riot, way to big of a community of money compared to BRAND new games to not have programs in place for this.

22 Comments

zPOOPzJan 17, 20181 votes

so....no real suggestion? No algorithm to offer? No peudo codes for Rito to check out?

deathgod5Jan 17, 20181 votes

Well mostly because of this : https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/FrILlWp7-14-day-ban-because-playing-nunu-support-with-smite-is-stealing-other-peoples-roles

This is the most upvoted case on the player behavior and moderation boards. It is about a nunu player that played nunu support with smite and spend the entire early game in the jungle stealing enemy buffs. It was not that he was trying to lose, it was that it is very frustrating to play with him and that both his score and visible participation were terrible.

When they banned him however, it caused a shitstorm on both the boards and youtube(search nunu ban if you are interested). They were already kind of upset when it happend to a singed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3C4-pnMiGc ) earlier but this was just purely restricting peoples options.

After this thing blew over and they calmed everybody down they are more careful with who they ban because a false positive could cause them so much trouble.

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

Yeah, and people don't care about this kind of fraud in video games enough, or have enough money to pay lawyers, so nothing is done to keep Riot in check about this. Get better at... oh wait, I mean just do what Riot and the Toxic "community" of Leaguers tell you to do or we got that ass, and that account you don't own, but...pay money into...but somehow the stuff you purchased isn't real, and you only rent things with it....hmmm....

Draven

deathgod5Jan 17, 20181 votes

It's called a permanent lease, you can do the same thing with apartments it's perfectly legal. I have made a more detailed answer to that before:

{quoted}

again they have the full right to ban you because you do not buy anything in this game it clearly states that in 2.1/2.2 of their tos:

2.1. How can my account be suspended or terminated? (If you break the rules, Demacian Justice will be visited upon your account!)

Three different people/entities can suspend or terminate your account:

2.1.1. You. You may terminate or suspend your account at any time by contacting us at [email protected].

2.1.2. Us.We may terminate or suspend your account if we determine, in our sole discretion, that:

(a) you have violated any part of this Agreement;

(b) we have stopped offering the Riot Services in your region; or

(c) doing so would be in the best interests of our community, the Riot Services, or the rights of a third party.

We may make such determinations, among other ways, by using automated systems and machine learning tools.

And to get around you claiming you bought it and therefore have protection they added this in 4.3

You don't own anything because they actually grant you a semi permanent lease for the money you spend. By banning you they stop the lease.

So yes, if they really had a mmr ban system it would just be way easier to ban you and completely legal.

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

When you lease something to someone, you actually give up rights to it.

There are laws that govern what rights you give up, if you create a permanent lease, that implies permanent access, ceerrect, Georgie?

Now we know each other.

[zombie-brand-clap]

deathgod5Jan 17, 20181 votes

No that is what called buying. A permanent lease implies that you can use it for as long as I can give/want to give you access to it.

For example If I permanently allow you access to my car I can still prohibit you If you drunk drive or if I want to. They cover this here:

4.3. Do I “own” the Virtual Goods I unlock? (No. What you “unlock” is not the virtual good itself, but rather, a qualified right to access it in the Game.)

You have no ownership or other property interest in any of the Virtual Goods you unlock, regardless of whether you acquired access to those Virtual Goods using Riot Points, Blue Essence or Hextech Crafting. Virtual Goods have no monetary value. You can’t redeem them for cash. You can’t obtain any refunds for purchasing Riot Points or Virtual Goods, except as expressly permitted by us. You can find our current content refund policy here.

We have the right to delete, alter, move, remove, or transfer any and all Game Content—including Virtual Goods—in whole or in part, at any time and for any reason or no reason, with or without notice to you, and with no liability of any kind to you. We don’t provide or guarantee, and expressly disclaim, any value, cash or otherwise, attributed to any data residing on servers we operate or control, including any Game Content attributed to your account. The sale or transfer of your right to access certain Virtual Goods, Blue Essence, Riot Points or Hextech Items may only be conducted via services approved of or provided by us, if any.

you are allowed access to these parts for as long as they want to give it to you. And even if you somehow allow your self access back to your account they could still deny you access to all game modes since you didn't pay for access to summoners rift / twisted treeline / etc. Legally you have no leg to stand on.

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

You just wrote permanent lease, now you’re changing it?

Are you a lawyer?

Why are you defending a big company, and very poorly I might add? Does Riot pay you in RP to say these things you know very little about?

Did you even read what I wrote?

Again, if the lease is permanent or if the goods are purchased, bought whatever, then you have what is called a reasonable expectation to get what you pay for, so Riot gives up rights to my account and my purchases products and RP because of state law that governs business transactions. They can’t arbitrarily shut down their servers to close off everything to the players, nor can they deny me access for any reason.

If they do, they must answer for it. Money is involved, they know this, and no one does anything about it because it’s not worth the lawyer fees to pursue most cases.

Riot won’t ban or deny access to people for no reason, they aren’t stupid, but they will do what they think they can get away with.

People like you, who gush and make comments about topics you clearly know very little about probably get paid, and are the reason companies can get away with so much of this garbage.

deathgod5Jan 17, 20181 votes

They didn't change the lease they put in in there that they could do this. THEY ALREADY WROTE IT IN TO PREVENT LAWSUITS.

You have no ownership or other property interest in any of the Virtual Goods you unlock, regardless of whether you acquired access to those Virtual Goods using Riot Points, Blue Essence or Hextech Crafting. Virtual Goods have no monetary value. You can’t redeem them for cash. You can’t obtain any refunds for purchasing Riot Points or Virtual Goods, except as expressly permitted by us. You can find our current content refund policy here.

It's called a lease term and it is perfectly legal.

And if you are going to claim that I know nothing I have been on these boards and can acutally still quote lawyers that did comment on the boards while you source nothing. Don't accuse me of things while you know about the same.

{quoted}

I work in insurance law, not contract law or IP law, so I'm certainly not an expert. But I can make some useful points.

There is some disagreement as to whether an EULA constitutes a contract (like your cell phone service contract) or is purely a license (like buying retail software with a license for one computer). The majority of any EULA is just terms of use for the license. Disputes tend to arise when sections of an EULA take on contract-like qualities but claim to be terms of use.

For instance, let's say a 13 year old goes to Office Depot and buys a box copy of Adobe Photoshop. He goes home and installs the software, clicking through all of the license agreement prompts. That is not a contract, and his status as a minor does not mean he cannot be held liable for violating the license agreement. In other words, he can't upload Photoshop to pirate bay and then claim the terms did not apply to him because he is a minor. On installation, the kid agreed not to pirate the software, but IP theft is a law that is enforceable whether he agreed to the terms or not.

On the other hand, a contract is an agreement to do a thing not required by law. Your cell phone is a contract because you are agreeing to pay in the future, so a contract is necessary for that agreement to be enforced. If you look at MMO subscription packages, they are a monthly transaction with no commitment to pay in the future. Every year-long subscription is paid in full up front so it is considered a transaction, not a contractual obligation.

EULAs get hairy when they contain things like binding arbitration and hold-harmless clauses. Those sorts of clauses are almost never enforceable outside of contract law, so there is an argument to be made that an EULA is a contract. But then there are questions of severability and governing law to further muddy the waters.

The answer to your question is that buying things in League of Legends is not a contract. Buying things in the cash shop is essentially like my first example of the kid going to the store and buying a box of software. It is a 1-time transaction for a license to use certain content within the game service. The service itself is separate from content licensing, so I don't believe one has anything to do with the other.

TL;DR: If the parent authorized the transactions, there's no problem with your scenario and Riot does not owe anyone any money. If the purchases were unauthorized, the credit card company would probably try to negotiate with Riot.

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

All this says is this guy isn’t an expert on the subject and gave his opinion, and furthermore it doesn’t address what I said, it just means it’s open to interpretation and further examination.

The account, the game, the RP, and the skins all being separate doesn’t mean Riot isn’t responsible for a reasonable expectation to maintain and deliver their products people pay for. Right?

Riot has terms and agreements to cover their butt and protect itself from lawsuits, but that doesn’t make them invincible if they do something they shouldn’t be, and I doubt we will See this ever go to court because there is no money in it, and no one cares enough.

I’m just telling you hypothetically, they could be caught out if taken to civil court over perma bans, but I don’t think it will happen.

I think Riot should stop perma banning people for their own protection, because they can’t ban anyone, just accounts, which is literally stealing.

A note on owning unlocked things, and them not having monetary value, that is false.

The RP is purchased with money, so it has monetary value, and they are held to a standard of conduct to do reasonable business with people.

They have this portion to protect from abuse, understandable.

If they charged money for the game, then people would have to be given access to it, unless it required a subscription like WoW, then you have to pay to play. Since its free, they can't stop you from playing. Since you pay for things, you get to keep the things you pay for in the form of keeping your account.

The only reason you think this is not the case, is because you probably work for Riot as a thread comment poster, and you have not seen anyone go up against Riot successfully in court.

That is fine man, but you should actually try addressing some of these points on your own, I'd like to know really how this can be refuted, because the Lawyer you quoted didn't say anything about this.

deathgod5Jan 17, 20181 votes

Fine fair enough, I am just saying that I think they have every piece of legal defense they need and can argue that they can ban it.

I just did it without saying things like this:

People like you, who gush and make comments about topics you clearly know very little about probably get paid, and are the reason companies can get away with so much of this garbage.

please don't assume people don't do their research, especially when I was not talking bs.

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

It's not about doing research, its about the context and content of what is written.

I won't jab at you then, I'm glad you want to engage on a topic like this, it helps further understanding of such a topic.

Notice, Riot will likely say nothing about this in any legal capacity, which is smart, and they know they have a reasonable practice most of the time, which protects them.

The whole, "We give you plenty of chances before we perma ban you," is why they mostly get away with it.

People feel guilty like they did something illegal, so Riot can just freeze their account permanently, but I guarantee you this, if it was going to be too much trouble and money, they would just reinstate an account over fighting it in court, then continue business as usual.

On one hand I'm saying, Riot is not that bad, but on another hand, its not perfect and stated how I would change things.

deathgod5Jan 18, 20181 votes

I agree with you that this all goes to easy, I think they should(especially for light cases where there is no death threats etc) continue to give out ever increasing 2 weak bans. I hope they change but at the same time I aware that they won't. They are happy with the current season because they are effectively getting rid of people they don't want in their point of view.

DBS RonovonJan 18, 20181 votes

The more people play the game and spend money, the better for Riot. No matter who says what, saying things on the internet is a fundamental problem Riot doesn’t intend on fixing.

I would sacrifice having in game chat if they removed perma bans completely.

If they don’t want Toxic people typing mean stuff, don’t allow an in game chat at all. Problem solved.

There should be a disclaimer saying, “Be prepared to be called every mean sexist, racist, whatever slur you can think of, because this you are entering into the most toxic online game community in the world. The internet hates you, so grow some thick skin, and deal with it.”

People prefer to punish other players in game by trolling and out of game by reporting, and the ones who report get to have a chance to get the other person a long time out or gag.

The trolls last for only one game, but since the reporting party is on the so called side of justice, they don’t get put on time out, but if you really examine it, being removed from a game (especially if you’ve paid real money) is WAY WORSE than anything anyone can say to you or any feeding, it’s one game.

Maybe people should think about this sometimes, and see how big of trolls they are for demanding behavior bans.

When you think about it, it’s so F’d up.

kevin heals youJan 17, 20181 votes

if you are serious about learning and giving better you shouldn't give into so many negative emotions but instead focus everything on improvement. 1 game is nothing in the grand scheme of things and not stopping you from ranking up.

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

Yes 1 game is 1 of many where this happens based on the hidden rank system or player experience modifications known as MMR. If you lose a bunch and for some reason wonder why, take a look at your wins, and then remember that Riot will put you against other people who are really good and above your actual rank just to make sure the numbers are against you, and that you will likely lose. This helps people to stay in their elo by showing them they can't win too much, because people from higher divisions will beat their ass.

Don't worry, the hidden MMR ranking system has got your back my friend, if you are losing way too many games, the MMR system will calculate this and put you on dream teams which are such one sided matches against the same trash they paired you off with when you were on that hotstreak, and you'll be sailing fly high winning again! RIGHT?! Great?!

So just make sure you stay at 50% or less win rate, which means don't advance or win a lot, which means stay in the same spot, because no matter what, Riot will modify your MMR/ secret rank to hurt or help you so you keep playing.

GG buddy, welcome to non competitive gaming.

Draven

kevin heals youJan 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OAAjZngh,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-01-17T14:08:30.879+0000)

Yes 1 game is 1 of many where this happens based on the hidden rank system or player experience modifications known as MMR. If you lose a bunch and for some reason wonder why, take a look at your wins, and then remember that Riot will put you against other people who are really good and above your actual rank just to make sure the numbers are against you, and that you will likely lose. This helps people to stay in their elo by showing them they can't win too much, because people from higher divisions will beat their ass.

Don't worry, the hidden MMR ranking system has got your back my friend, if you are losing way too many games, the MMR system will calculate this and put you on dream teams which are such one sided matches against the same trash they paired you off with when you were on that hotstreak, and you'll be sailing fly high winning again! RIGHT?! Great?!

So just make sure you stay at 50% or less win rate, which means don't advance or win a lot, which means stay in the same spot, because no matter what, Riot will modify your MMR/ secret rank to hurt or help you so you keep playing.

GG buddy, welcome to non competitive gaming.

if you get better you rank up. if you stay the same rank its because your not correcting your mistakes, the match making is absolutely perfect

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

100% wrong.

I lost a bunch of games just to prove this point to myself, and guess what, after hitting Bronze 4 from B1 at the start of the season, and when completing my pre determined 4 wins and 6 losses permission to progress games...

(Not calling them placements because my rank was already determined lower than what it was last season)

I noticed they bumped me down in rank like they do every year, and fixed the system so I would get 4/6 W/L like I did last year too.

So to get to my point I was losing and losing and losing, then I played Lucian jungle, and got a dream team and we won no contest, with Lucian jungle.

So a champ I never play, who isn't a jungle champ, is somehow me learning from all my mistakes, and overcoming another team?

Please explain how you even think this is about correcting mistakes and not MMR rating fudging the numbers in or out of favor with the player depending on if they win or lose a lot.

Draven

kevin heals youJan 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OAAjZngh,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-17T14:19:21.685+0000)

100% wrong.

I lost a bunch of games just to prove this point to myself, and guess what, after hitting Bronze 4 from B1 at the start of the season, and when completing my pre determined 4 wins and 6 losses permission to progress games...

(Not calling them placements because my rank was already determined lower than what it was last season)

I noticed they bumped me down in rank like they do every year, and fixed the system so I would get 4/6 W/L like I did last year too.

So to get to my point I was losing and losing and losing, then I played Lucian jungle, and got a dream team and we won no contest, with Lucian jungle.

So a champ I never play, who isn't a jungle champ, is somehow me learning from all my mistakes, and overcoming another team?

Please explain how you even think this is about correcting mistakes and not MMR rating fudging the numbers in or out of favor with the player depending on if they win or lose a lot.

stop blaming the system, if you get better you will rank up period. the game where you went lucian jungle your team hard carried you. you did 7k damage the rest of your team did 25k 15k 30k 26k you had no impact on that game and a support thresh almost did as much damage as you.

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

Thats how it is though. I play good, lose, play good lose, play bad lose, play bad win, play bad again, win, play good, win, play good, lose, play good, lose, play good, lose, play bad again win.

This system teaches nothing, is not even similar to the LCS, and gives you free wins, and puts you on teams that give away free wins.

Why should you tell me to stop blaming the system?

What are you really saying to me?

kevin heals youJan 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OAAjZngh,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-17T14:32:22.623+0000)

Thats how it is though. I play good, lose, play good lose, play bad lose, play bad win, play bad again, win, play good, win, play good, lose, play good, lose, play good, lose, play bad again win.

This system teaches nothing, is not even similar to the LCS, and gives you free wins, and puts you on teams that give away free wins.

Why should you tell me to stop blaming the system?

What are you really saying to me?

focus on improvement watch streams guides look up builds. you have so much potential to get infinitely better but if you blame something else instead of yourself you are wasting time that you could be using to gain knowledge and get better at the game.

DBS RonovonJan 17, 20181 votes

Good point!

The system is still not competitive and dishonest.

OprebeachJan 18, 20181 votes

I'm so confused lol my post just went like all over the place. I'm not blaming the system or MMR and I get it 1 win lalala all that stuff. None of you I don't think except the last comment addressed what I was talking about. I get the MMR system and everything like that, not blaming it. My whole thing is I know RIOT and ESPORTS have the money to create programs that will actually make this game more competitive. The answer to come out and say just simply play better and keep trying to get better doesn't fix the fact of constant, constant, CONSTANTTTTTT INT Feeders. The problem has grown and is continuously becoming worse and you're all full of crap no offense if you don't believe so. All I'm simply asking is for a equal shot at competiveness, that's it. Create programs that will complete stop people from INT Feeding or at least instantly stop games and not count them against you, it can't be hard to do because there are many other games out there hints PUBG with a lot less money that has created such efforts. I appreciate all the responses not sure where the whole lawyer comments and leasing came into play but thank you. I'm actually trying to generate enough talk and articles that I actually get RIOT to explain why. Who knows if this will happen but they talk about competitive play and how they want to see new faces and new challengers, does anyone not feel it a bit odd year after year the same people the same names keep coming across the playing field, the same challengers? I do I find it very odd indeed and you cant sit here and tell me after 7 seasons that people are getting better than such as some challengers. Hell I'd be willing to put my JG skills up with some plats or diamonds even JG and I know I have a short champion pool I'm still learning. But I'm that confident in my play style and what I've watched and learned over the years I can compete and I've only been playing a little over two years now. Just saying RIOT take a look, you talk about growing and growing but yet your top leader boards don't change and havn't changed in years hmmm, just a thought. Thank you all.

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