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"reform timer" being based on time, not games played is a terrible thing

fourthashura··1 votes·748 views

TL;DR the way system works right now it punishes way more people who are simply tilted for various reasons and are decent members of the community in the 99% of the games than the ones who are intentionaly toxic (technicaly it could even be possible to tilt a ton of people into getting banned and get away with that)

I got a 14 day ban a month ago and after that time I tried hard to not flame anyone. I play a lot everyday and today about 120 games after the last ban I got banned because of two games in which I was flamed by 2 or 3 people and I talked back because I was tilted myself (It wasn't anything extremally offensive: I just pointed out how they're blaming me for everything, spamming missing ping and "respawning in" every time I died while they were having a terrible game themselves) I understood that I was being toxic after the second restriction and started trying to stop that (my 14 day ban was literaly from 2 games in row in which I was losing my 1/0 series for the third or so time in a row)

I just find it ridiculous how I played almost 700 games this season but all the ones where I was toxic and got restricted/banned were 10 in total, everyone has a bad day sometimes...

Im not sure if that's true, but I heard somewhere that you get lowered one rank in banning system every 6 months, so if I were playing on average 1 game a day then I would never get anything more than 5 game restriction and would that mean that I'm less of a toxic player? No, I would still be ''toxic'' once in 100 games or so...

23 Comments

AeroWaffle5 votes

It is based more on games played than time. We've had cases where someone gets a punishment, takes a long-term break (several months), comes back only to have just as poor of behavior, and is assigned the next punishment tier.

Just because the system only shows you a few chat logs doesn't mean that those were the only ones that contributed to the punishment. You could have been on the edge for a very long time and those two games are what pushed it over the line.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

It's actually primarily a function of games played with good behavior and, if you're reported occasionally but not sufficiently to merit another ban, can take more or less time. The 6-months estimate is simply based on what people have seen given the normal playing habits of the people in question. If you're a very active player it would well be much shorter.

The important thing is that this decreases down by a rank each time -- at a 14-day ban, even a decrease still puts you in the 25 game chat restriction tier. Thus, behavior that would normally escalate you immediately to a 14-day ban could permanently ban you even then.

fourthashura: but better jack off to drawings under turre fourthashura: but these %%%gots in my team are tilting me fourthashura: getting same inting %%%got two times in row fourthashura: what a retard fourthashura: nothing, go fuck yourself fourthashura: braindead fourthashura: u lost it because u are retarded fourthashura: he can watch this to see u being a retard who is pushing and cant play his champion at all?

This is nothing but insults and hate speech. The word censored by the board filter is especially bad, and usually merits a 14-day ban in and of itself.

With previous punishments INCLUDING a 14-day ban on your account, it's reasonable to see why the system would escalate this to a permanent ban even from the 25-game chat restriction tier (assuming you had managed to drop to that level).

fourthashura1 votes

Then how is it possible that there are only 0.006% people getting permabanned if on average every three or so games someone just in my team says that, tells others to kill themselves or some other stuff considered heavily offensive? Also I don't understand why is this word worse than any other insult? Its homophobic meaning has been gone for some time

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}Then how is it possible that there are only 0.006% people getting permabanned if on average every three or so games someone just in my team says that, tells others to kill themselves or some other stuff considered heavily offensive?

Because League's playerbase is enormous, certain MMRs probably contain more toxicity than others, and many of them probably correct that behavior after a warning ban. Also, to some extent, toxicity breeds toxicity: players who tend to engage toxic players instead of ignoring them often prompt escalating toxic behavior.

My own experience, for example, is that I encounter a player saying things like that less than one out of every ten games, and probably less than one out of every thirty. I can't honestly recall the last time I got someone telling another player in my game to harm themselves.

Its homophobic meaning has been gone for some time

In some groups, perhaps (although the meaning still exists -- they've just repurposed the word). Culturally? No. The third Google link is still that term's pejorative slang usage. You don't know who you're playing with, or what words they consider offensive, so it's common courtesy to avoid those that have been historically charged with prejudice and derogatory meanings.

I'd also point out that if you're using the word as an insult, then the pejorative meaning still exists. Otherwise it wouldn't be a word you use TO insult someone.

fourthashura1 votes

Maybe that's how it looks on NA server (never played there) but I played on every rank from bronze to diamond and that is how it is like there on nordic. Obviously it's less common on normals and especialy ARAMs but thats the difference of 1 in 5 instead of 1 in 3

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe that's how it looks on NA server (never played there) but I played on every rank from bronze to diamond and that is how it is like there on nordic

Then there is always a chance that EUNE has a greater percentage of toxic players. I'm not privy to those statistics, so I can't comment.

It could also be that something in your behavior is worsening the situation, since that's the only consistent element. But, again, I don't have the knowledge to make that call one way or another.

fourthashura1 votes

are 3 games consistent? Was it ever confirmed by anyone from riot that the penalty comes from the bigger amonut of games that it is said in the message? Because I'm pretty sure that every single time I ever got restricted it was always because of 2/3 games that were played the same day and mostly even one after another (sometimes from the day before)

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}Was it ever confirmed by anyone from riot that the penalty comes from the bigger amonut of games that it is said in the message?

Certain behavior (including use of hate speech) can trigger off of just 1-2 instances. In general, however, behavioral punishments come from a combination of total amount of games reported and the timeframe you were reported in. If you're reported in 100% of games for a 6+ game streak, for example, you may get punished for the incredibly high rate -- you should have known you were getting angry and taken a break. If you're only lightly toxic once out of every 20 games, however, you're likely to be fine -- even if you've been reported 20 times over those 400 odd games. Someone who is reported 5 times out of 20 games is in a MUCH worse position, despite the lower total number. So the answer is that yes, there are often more games than shown (almost always in the case of normal progression through the punishment tiers), but certain behavior can escalate the swiftness and cause punishments from only a game or two.

In THIS particular case, it doesn't really matter if there were more games or not though -- these games have hate speech and direct insults, and the account in question had already reached at 14-day ban. You should have realized, by this point, that this behavior is not acceptable.

fourthashura1 votes

Don't you understand my point? I'm not saying my behavior was fine, I'm saying that I am not a notorious flamer and I got banned only because I got people flaming me in TWO games in a row and because I reacted to them these two times. And I simply don't deserve being put in the same bracket as some people who posted at this forum about how they got a 14 day ban and right after it ended they flamed again and they cry how it is unfair that they got perma'd ''without having time to reform''

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

Don't you understand my point? I'm not saying my behavior was fine, I'm saying that I am not a notorious flamer and I got banned only because I got people flaming me in TWO games in a row and because I reacted to them these two times.

No, I get that it wasn't a frequent occurrence for you. It just, sadly, doesn't make a difference in this case.

My point was that the number is somewhat immaterial here, because the WAY you reacted to them is in a manner that Riot has a zero-tolerance policy towards, and results in escalated punishments.

The fact that both punishments can eventually end up in a permanent ban doesn't mean the two are necessarily exactly comparable.

fourthashura1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NkdUhv9p,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T18:49:13.550+0000)

My point was that the number is somewhat immaterial here, because the WAY you reacted to them is in a manner that Riot has a zero-tolerance policy towards, and results in escalated punishments.

And that is the entire problem with the way it works, I stopped reporting people myself after noticing that only ones that are getting banned are the ones that are simply tilted at the moment and they most likely also flamed in the last game or two

The system doesn't work against people who are toxic, it works against people who are simply tilted and have a bad day or even worse bad luck and got some people who made them tilted with their behavior: just like with the famous dunkey case

fourthashura1 votes

Compare it to the ''real'' situation: every day you meet some new people and part of them kicks you in the nuts, you can kick someone like once a week and never go to jail for that, but if one day you get two people who kicked you really hard and it was the day your dog died, gf left you and you lost your job and you kick them both you go to jail. Doesn't matter how many people you meet and how many kick you every day, you can kick as much as you want as long as you do that once a week.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

You're not terribly familiar with the law... if someone ran up and kicked you you could very well get them in trouble. If they kicked you, and caused lasting damage, now we're talking settlements, reparations, medical fees (if your country's like that)... you can go all over town on their ass in that case.

A better comparison would be you live in the same apartment building as someone. You will never notice them, they will barely register on your radar and senses, until one day they whip around as you two cross each other out of the elevator, and they say, "What the !@$# is your dumb !@##ing problem, you dumb!@#$ piece of !@#$ing !@#$-biting !@#$?" (censor because, over the top profanity)

You're gonna lock their face into your memory for a long time on that, probably. You're both gonna remember that one, because the interaction broke the norm (silence)-- in fact, if they one day came out and similarly said, "Oh my goodness, I see you go to work six days a week. You're incredible. Keep at it; you'll come out on top one day, even if it seems really hard and hopeless now. Don't even stop pushing forward." You'll remember that, too-- again, it breaks the norm. This is psychology stuff~! It's like if I tell you right now you should pay extra special attention because the word pink is going to show up in your coming week a lot, and also, you'll see a lot of green cars and trucks! This isn't actually true-- but if we attach a motive to the thought process, all of a sudden your brain will start to fill in the blanks... and next thing? You're really weirded out by how often you hear the word 'pink' in a day.

I want you to realize the bans aren't about you. The bans are about everyone else who's ever had a situation like that go really sour, because it only takes one for them; you'd be happy to tilt through sixteen games calling everyone every which name, and yet you have no idea how that affects them. That could have been their sixteenth with tilting garbo who treat everyone like they're pawns made to boost their KDA and rank.

The way you refer to your own jungle getting counter-jungled and how nobody helped you (even though it's your role) and the ease with which you put down your teammates seems more like you're interested in having them stomp a game for you, rather than pushing more toward a win. You're placing a lot of onus of the game's success on them, which is funny considering how good and worth the pampering you think yourself to be. Were your worth so obvious, would it not come up in gameplay?

It's not ever okay. Shitting on your teammates is always the wrong answer. I don't know why you'd ever think it's okay. Either they're that bad at the game and need pointers, tips and experience with the game in order to progress-- not that I'd expect League's garbage community to even consider any of that-- or they're tilting, inting or trolling or otherwise throwing the match, and feeding into their little attention complex only makes it worse. It doesn't matter if you're tilting. Just because you're having a bad day, you can fuck up someone else's? Because that's pretty much a case of 'grow up, kid.'

fourthashura1 votes

I really wonder why isn't it possible to view other players messages in the reform card: in the game you are reffering to I was the one who was treated ''like a pawn made to boost KDA and rank" despite having to play at an disadvantage of getting counterjungled (and obviously you can say that it's my fault that I didn't cover the top side when starting and mid side not mid laners fault who was afk for a minute after going to lane). Also I was the only person trying to win the game having best stats and highest kill part while flamed by everyone else for their own mistakes (it was diamond/high plat mmr btw). If you read the chat logs in the game carefully you can tell that every single ''bad'' thing I said was the asnwer to something: the asnwer to people talking trash about me all the time: the only time I was the one saying anything first was when I called xayah ''blind'' because he didn't run back despite seeing enemy with ward and me pinging (well maybe he didn't listen to pings because I was the only one using it for its intended usage not for tilting factor)

KORGtuners1 votes

You don't know who you're playing with, or what words they consider offensive, so it's common courtesy to avoid those that have been historically charged with prejudice and derogatory meanings.

You get the same thing Riot got. [zombie-brand-facepalm] Facepalm baby.

The real common courtesy would be politely asking someone to stop using offensive language. Using the mute button would also be common courtesy. However, people like you skip common courtesy. People like you go straight to "permanently remove this player from the game".

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}The real common courtesy would be politely asking someone to stop using offensive language. Using the mute button would also be common courtesy. However, people like you skip common courtesy. People like you go straight to "permanently remove this player from the game".

Actually, I do tend to ask someone to stop their behavior as a first step. If they don't, then I will indeed report them. If they do and it's not obviously egregious and obviously intended to offend, then I almost always let them off.

You'll see I'm also in favor of the 14-day ban as a warning rather than an immediate removal from the community, as that provides a chance to reform their behavior.

So...yeah. I think you're thinking I'm a little more uncompromising than I am. <3

KORGtuners1 votes

So...yeah. I think you're thinking I'm a little more uncompromising than I am. <3

Much compromise. If you don't change your ways I am going to report you. If you do change your ways I still might report you.

What do you do if a bird is annoying you with it's song?

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}What do you do if a bird is annoying you with it's song?

Bird songs very rarely involve racial slurs, encouragement to commit self-harm, or insults directed at my person or at my friends, so I tend to be okay with them. :)

KORGtuners1 votes

Oh, you speak bird! Which dialect?

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

Oh, you speak bird! Which dialect?

Mainly Robin and Sparrow, although I know enough Street Pigeon to get by.

RallerenP1 votes

It's a mix of both.

If you play no games the 'timer' will never go down.

It's also possible that in some of the 120 games you played after your 14-day you were negative, but not enough for a punishment, and the one game you did get punished for was just the last drop to trigger a punishment.

fourthashura1 votes

I might as well copy the chat logs there:

Game 1 fourthashura: u cant fourthashura: i also have ufo corki from the same season 1 event fourthashura: greato fourthashura: he fucking started on my wraiths fourthashura: my god fourthashura: yeah and u cant stop him? fourthashura: yeah fourthashura: what fourthashura: how the fuck did u die fourthashura: lvl 6 vs lvl 4 xD fourthashura: diamond elo letting enemy jungler START in allied jungle fourthashura: and i have no blue fourthashura: xD fourthashura: i actually dont fourthashura: im adc main fourthashura: if u fucking went there fourthashura: he would give up on doing that fourthashura: but better jack off to drawings under turre fourthashura: whatever, just surr at 15 fourthashura: i knew the game was lost at 2nd minute fourthashura: it was a waste, i didnt even need that fourthashura: but these %%%gots in my team are tilting me fourthashura: when xayah and tahm just keep feeding graves more and more fourthashura: no wards fourthashura: and keep pushing and then wonder why they die fourthashura: xD fourthashura: go there and die fourthashura: good call tahm fourthashura: build from the release fourthashura: also blind fourthashura: and dead fourthashura: xayah does literaly 0 dmg Game 2 fourthashura: all thanks to this guy who suicided in my lane fourthashura: love it fourthashura: quality ranked experience fourthashura: getting same inting %%%got two times in row fourthashura: oh come on fourthashura: afk in team fourthashura: xd fourthashura: full hp is 60%? fourthashura: xD fourthashura: lets group fourthashura: dont waste baron fourthashura: no crit fourthashura: i fucking hate it fourthashura: getting a crit with 80% chance on shiv proc is so important fourthashura: 1/0 promo? fourthashura: oups Game 3 fourthashura: i was in fucking base fourthashura: and coming fourthashura: but u died fourthashura: when i was there fourthashura: so i went back to farming fourthashura: my god fourthashura: what a retard fourthashura: nothing, go fuck yourself fourthashura: blaming the jungler as always for your mistakes fourthashura: tali also had 20% hp fourthashura: im the fucking nasus of jungle fourthashura: well she has no ult now fourthashura: blaming me for being far to agresive and getting punished for that fourthashura: like i can do shit when theyre all pushing, maybe except swain fourthashura: braindead fourthashura: xD fourthashura: u lost it because u are retarded fourthashura: he can watch this to see u being a retard who is pushing and cant play his champion at all? fourthashura: we can win late fourthashura: yeah we wont fourthashura: seju has a 45% winrate until 35th minute, same for kog fourthashura: tali knocked him out of my W fourthashura: def and farm fourthashura: i guess fourthashura: if we arent surring fourthashura: my fucking god fourthashura: yeah they have lategame, we dont fourthashura: like u got solokilled by ziggss back in the top tribush fourthashura: you go there fourthashura: xD

Were these games really "extremely inflammatory and offensive"? As for the game nr 2 I got the same guy two times in row and someone talked about my last game in match history being 2/7 or something so I answered with the first line, then next 3 were because he flashed before minnions spawned and one about int is because he went afk

Ebrawl1 votes

Forthashura bro this is relatable I was getting reformed and one "bad game" got me perma banned. yet I wasn't being that toxic while my TEEMO support and Karthus int and troll their asss offf

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