Ban System Proposal

Flicked·Jan 24, 2020·2 votes·2,220 views

I'm going to make this short. I wasn't going to post, but it was suggested that I do so.

Proposal: Riot's report/ban policy is too strict

Reasoning: A) No chat is 100% neutral. You cannot have chat without it being a bit negative, just as you cannot have chat without it being a bit positive. When it turns negative and people start talking a lot (regardless of language), some may see it as an inconvenience, but that is the condition of any chat box and should be expected. This is currently a bannable offense. B) You can ban players all you want, but it is easy to brush off bans as meaningless as a computer somewhere else makes a judgement about you, followed by an impersonal support agent that wasn't there. Many players who get banned will ignore it until they can't, and then make a new account. If enough people tell them to stop their behavior, they may realize it won't be worth their time. C) There are many games that do not have such harsh policies regarding chat, and they are doing just fine.

Proposed solution: Cut back ban requirements to those who are saying racist, really disgusting things, or things of this nature.

21 Comments

GatekeeperTDSJan 25, 20205 votes

A) No chat is 100% neutral. You cannot have chat without it being a bit negative, just as you cannot have chat without it being a bit positive. When it turns negative and people start talking a lot (regardless of language), some may see it as an inconvenience, but that is the condition of any chat box and should be expected. This is currently a bannable offense.

A little bit of negativity is not going to get anyone punished.

Taking negativity to the point where it derails the game for others is where the problem lies.

B) You can ban players all you want, but it is easy to brush off bans as meaningless as a computer somewhere else makes a judgement about you, followed by an impersonal support agent that wasn't there. Many players who get banned will ignore it until they can't, and then make a new account. If enough people tell them to stop their behavior, they may realize it won't be worth their time.

Proof? Not everyone who gets banned makes new accounts. Even if they do, maybe they'll think twice about getting that one banned.

C) There are many games that do not have such harsh policies regarding chat, and they are doing just fine.

Irrelevant. Those games aren't League, and no, a lot of them are not doing fine.

FlickedJan 25, 20202 votes

What derails a game is entirely subjective and if people cannot handle others talking back and forth, then they need to have accountability for themselves.

Just as a small sample pool, you can take a look at the streamers who won't stop getting bans and making accounts. They are not the only ones.

It is not irrelevant at all. It wouldn't make sense to mention them if they were the same. They are proof of concept that their system works. I played various multiplayer online games my entire life before coming to league of legends and it was very rare, maybe once or twice a year, that I had an issue worth reporting.

and edit to add: companies like blizzard, ea, etc. you may or may not have an opinion about them but I'd hardly say they're not fine.

Arcade LuluJan 24, 20203 votes

I mean, it's not really that strict

Enough toxicity in the chat? You get a 10 game chat restriction You continue with toxicity after that? 25 game chat restriction You still continue? 14 day ban and a warning about this being your last chance You still refuse to reform? Perma ban because riot is done dealing with you, you clearly don't want to reform

Hate speech etc instantly goes to a 14 day ban, which is good Same with game play related offenses

I don't really understand your solution. Are you saying that people who don't use hate speech etc should never get banned, or?

GatekeeperTDSJan 25, 20201 votes

No, he's saying only egregious offenders should be banned. Those who are toxic as fuck but don't use hate speech should get to stay and ruin games for everyone else.

Arcade LuluJan 25, 20201 votes

That's literally what i just said....

"Are you saying that people who don't use hate speech etc should never get banned, or?"

GatekeeperTDSJan 25, 20201 votes

I read it fast and I'm tired, ok. :(

General Esdeath Jan 25, 20202 votes

"too strict"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENNEvqHWwAIDS6M.jpg:large

Silly NeekoJan 25, 20201 votes

A) true. Chat can not be neutral. However, those not being completely toxic etc are the people who generally do not have any problems with the punishments. The problem is in the people BEING toxic. They could care less that they are telling someone to uninstall because they are so bad that WHATEVER the heck their brain came up with..... they have a problem that they have no self control and they were caught being an ass and told to knock it off. So instead of taking a deep breath.... what do they do? Go into another game all pissed off! Does not matter if it is players, champions, the map itself, heck people might even blame the frog that jumps off the edge of the map for feeding the enemy team and needs to be reported. The players KNOW they are being toxic because this is a 13+ years of age game. 13+ means you SHOULD have a clue what common sense is, and how to learn from the warnings.

B) banning an account may not be a permanent solution. People will insist on buying accounts to be jerks and they will get account after account banned. Explain to me.... just what gives anyone the right to judge someone else by doing the same exact thing those people are to other players even? What banning the account does is that it makes people need to actually CHOOSE to start over to be an ass. It sucks, but if people would stop getting pissed off at them and mute them, then they would stop getting the laughs. They would move on if they kept getting their accounts banned, them using hundreds of dollars or whatever currency and getting nobody flaming and only reporting them? That would solve the problem. It will never happen, but that is the problem. So yes, we the players are the solution. Not through flaming the trolls and making them laugh their butts off as they are drunk and high off their ass, but by ignoring them.

C) name some games. If you know of the games, name them. Fortnite? I hear that is dieing seeing as i hear it is becoming common for people to report eachother when you disagree with a death and you get your account banned. Overwatch? Could be doing better.... it is a paid game which means it has less traffic, and it is going down hill from what I hear even if it is a good game. All the other First Person Shooter games? They are doing fine because they are new. Call of Duty is an example of that. Halo as well. Sure people are still playing, but their hype dies down fairly quick and then it is a slow decline with occasional bursts.

In short, i think your idea is half thought about, and sounds quite a bit like you just want a reason to reappeal your ban. What you need to do is put more thought into the suggestion, and come up with a more thought out idea.

Just my opinion seeing as its on public forums asking for opinions.

FlickedJan 25, 20201 votes

You put thought into this. But no, I haven't gotten a ban in a very long time and I couldn't care less. But when I see other people get banned for talking. Not using bad language or anything. It's upsetting. I have thought about this quite a bit. I will also tell you that peer pressure is a thing, and at least in my experience, in this game where peer pressure is heavily discouraged with bans, the player base is more toxic than in other games. Whether they express that in harsh language, or by inting, afking, what have you. And yes, you named some decent game examples for me. But the chat has absolutely nothing to do with their popularity. The market is so saturated with games, plus a multitude of reasons why they die down a bit. That could be a forum post in itself.

Silly NeekoJan 25, 20201 votes

When you see other people saying they have been banned etc.... have you seen their chat logs? The chat logs tell the true story. There has been maybe 1 or 2 people that after seeing their chat logs I could find only minor things that I did agree should not have been resulting in a ban and referenced them to the support team while helping them come up with a properly worded, and thought out appeal. What happened after that? I have no clue. It is out of my hands trying to help someone same as it is out of my hands after i send in a report.

Peer pressure? So just because all the cool kids are drinking bleach and eating tide pods that means you should? If nothing else then because they dared you to? You hear about that quite often about kids doing that. Bunch of sheep being willfully lead off a cliff. Me personally i find it odd as hell that people manage to actually get more than a chat restriction from time to time. I will admit I am not always the nicest person, I do tend yo banter and make snide remarks from time to time, it happens. However over the course of my 7ish+ years of playing and over 8000 games I have only had 2 chat restrictions. 1 was within my first year, and the second was roughly 5-6 years later and I understood exactly what i did wrong and stopped doing it. Hence, common sense and ability to learn. The reason the game is made for ages 13+ who are SUPPOSED to be mature. If you can tell me you have seen more afks, rage quitters, flamers, 4 man trolls, duo trolls, pissed off, drunk off their ass, high as a kite, horrible players, etc than I have.... then you should already have a clue what I am talking about.

Trust me also when I say, me personally I would much prefer having a horrible player who is nice to play with over even a great player who is toxic as hell. Reason why? Horrible players can learn. I am often helping people learn. I am so full of random knowledge about this game with various interactions it is not even funny. Anything i do not know, i know easily how to find. No, this is not saying I am the greatest player, my mechanics kinda suck from time to time. However if someone has a question.... I generally have an answer. Which is one of the reasons why when i play on a smurf to learn some champs I do not normally play, I can pick up on them fairly quick and often times i have helped out other players learning various interactions in the process. Even the enemy team.

Yes, I am lengthy in my posts etc. If i am in a reply to a post, it is because I am assuming you are competant enough to read and understand what is being said, which is a compliment that is not extended to quite a bit of the boards. Your idea just will not fix anything. It will also keep those toxic people from having to conciously choose to continue being toxic. People need to learn how to own up to their mistakes.

FlickedJan 25, 20201 votes

Yes, and they will not own up to them if no one pressures them to do so. I am not saying you have to, but a person shouldn't be punished for it. Also, peer pressure to eat tide pods is not the same as peer pressure to stop trolling and being a terrible person. You are rather vehement and colorful in the things you say, but let's try to stick to the points at hand. And yes, I do see all the horrible chat logs. But as you yourself admitted, there are bans for people who shouldn't be. Also, what does any of this have to do with the skill of a player? I couldn't care less if someone is feeding or what not. I really do believe my solution, or some variant thereof, which I will pointedly state no one has come up with so far, will improve the problem. This is because instead of banning players who tell them to stop, people won't be afraid to tell them anymore and pretty soon they're going to be overwhelmed with the poor choice of their decisions. And for the people who are clearly in it trolling for the long haul that couldn't care less about other's opinions? Those people are going to be around no matter what, no matter what game you're playing, ban or no ban. This way at least people who might be convinced to change will do so, and people who talk too much won't be banned for being a mild inconvenience.

Silly NeekoJan 25, 20201 votes

That is not trying to "peer pressure" anyone. That sounds like witch hunting and stoning. Feel free to look those two outdated and often even more harmful tactics of people "issuing their own justice." Hell, i have seen one person delusional enough to believe that... and No i do not agree with the beginning of this either... there was a junger who had their hovered pick banned by an ally because it was a bit off meta. So they picked soraka and took off smite and said that they would run it down all game unless someone dodged. The team did not dodge and so they went in and ran it down. Then, they were shocked they got banned because they were just doing what they said they were going to do and wanted it appealed.

The people, including the one who banned the champ probably started flaming that person. The person felt like they were being trolled so they were only trolling to punish the other person. Who is right? Nobody in that situation.

Peer pressure does not exist how people think it does. It is not some magical force that makes people do what you want if you have enough people who say something.

Not to get religious but there is one quote that works great in this situation.... "may he who has not sinned cast the first stone." Why should You or I be the ones who gets to choose who is guilty and say who is wrong? Someone does have to.... but why should we? We do not own the game. We do not manage the game. We can give suggestions, but at the end of the day, we the players should NOT be allowed to cast judgement, even if it is just "an eye for an eye" because thats a good way to leave the whole world blind.

As for the skill of the player? People complain about the skill of the player literally all the time. Ive played with actually new players on new accounts and people seem to think it is ok to flame and be toxic to them as they are less experienced than them. It is rediculous. Especially in normals. THAT is why i brought up player skill. Because an inexperienced player will be flamed for just being in the same game as "the great and powerful gods of league" that choose to flame them.

As for the people that are SOMETIMES banned wrongly (which is 99% not the case id venture to guess)... they are allowed to appeal the punishment and will often get it cleared up.

The talk of my own experience is to say that I am no stranger to the stuff and if i can play for this long and not get more than the first tier of chat restrictions, others should not get banned because they neglect learning what they did wrong and try fixing it.

Edit: I changed some wording around in the first paragraph for understandability and fixed some fat fingering issues with some words.

FlickedJan 25, 20201 votes

You're referring to flamers. The people that get mad at the decisions others make? For real, I'm not defending them, and saying that I am is incorrect. Don't conflate someone telling them to stop as witch hunting.

And just because peer pressure isn't a magical cure all doesn't mean it can't be a force for good. Again, it doesn't have to be 100% to be a viable solution and saying that it does is ridiculous. No solution is 100%. And telling me that only a company should hold the power to take a stand against those that bully others, is really fighting against the right of a person to have their own voice, and blindly accepting the opinion of some other random person the same as you and me.

And again, you're talking about flaming others for skill. These people are flamers. I still think for the most part people shouldn't take everything so personally, but if the flamers do get into it, a ban can be expected. I don't know why you keep repeating that like I don't agree with you. But you're talking about the offending party, and I'm talking about the one that's telling them to stop. And it's these people that are getting banned.

You think it's a witch hunt, but they don't even have to curse, and the system is beyond the point of lunacy because if you just type too much for Riot's taste at that point, you're banned for being "derailing". Because people can't handle others talking. I really think people should be accountable for themselves. If they can't handle the chat being used a lot, then they should be honest and take steps to fix that instead of reporting anyone they find irritating. Irritating shouldn't equal offensive, or require a punishment. What I'm getting at is this whole thing has become a witch hunt against every slightest inconvenience. The people who want to sit on their high horse and punish literally everyone they don't like makes them just as culpable as the flamers that are doing real damage. Everyone is busy blaming the flamers, but they're also blaming so many other people that are hardly toxic.

As someone in this thread already mentioned, "Idk what you mean by you can't have chat without negativity or positivity," and they make their case as if people should only ever use short sentence fragments in league for communication. And quite frankly, that's nuts. If you're going to have a chat box, you'd better expect people will use it, because they will and they do. That is what people are doing. That is what they are getting banned for, and yeah I have a problem with it. You can keep referencing that you specifically have only gotten banned twice and if you can learn from it so can others. And I agree that they should, but that's based on the whole assumption that they deserve to be banned in the first place, and I think there are too many over sensitive cases where they don't.

That's my position, I've made it clear, and at this point you're repeating yourself. This was a sound discussion, but I don't want to go around in circles.

Silly NeekoJan 25, 20201 votes

That is why you are not understanding what I am saying. Allow me to clear you up on your confusion.

As you can tell, I am very talkative. This is also in game. The ONLY times I have been CHAT RESTRICTED (not banned) was because first time I was being rude to others. Second time, I was very mildly harrassing someone who was harrassing me. The second time was for about 20 minutes, and we did win eventually. Both me and them got punished.

Minor things? No punishment. So anyone telling you that minor things caused their punishment is lieing to you. Like i said, 2 chat logs at most that I do not believe that they did anything really wrong.... one of them was that the chat log did look like they were only asking what something meant.... it was a zero tolerance word they asked about. They still did something wrong, just it was a misunderstanding.

I have told people to knock it off and stop trolling and flaming and have not been punished. Many times. Maybe I am just lucky? I do not think so. So the reason why it would be a witch hunt is if you were condoning things beyond just "knock it off".

So problem is either non existant (very very rare cases which are often solved with a support ticket) or you are trying to incite witch hunting which would be a bigger problem. Which is why it sounds like we are going in circles.

FlickedJan 25, 20201 votes

No, you are repeatedly ignoring what I say and substituting your own reality where you don't believe anyone has ever gotten banned for talking too much. And the level to which people are persecutory against others here gives me no hope for the future. If it's like this in games, it's no wonder why the world is going mad. I'm sorry you feel so harshly towards others. I just wanted to believe in a world where people didn't just use logical fallacies to bolster their arguments and throw hate from holier-than-thou positions all the time. You can continue to argue, but I'm out.

Silly NeekoJan 25, 20201 votes

I mean you can try to be the "savior of the world" all you want, but the fact is, the problem you are talking about is pretty much non existant. Please, feel free to show me a chat log. ANY chat log. That proves your point that just "talking too much" gets you punished.

Hell, it is almost funny when someone tries hard to keep chat logs out of their main post.... sounding so "sweet and innocent. They have no clue why they got an instant 14 day ban when they havent gotten a punishment before."

Then you ask for chat logs and they are going "f you (insert person)" "go neck yourself" "uninstall you waste of space" etc.

So you want to wonder why the world is going mad in your opinion? It is because people want to do anything they want with no consequences, and say whatever they want with no consequences.

I can back up my point. Any problem of your point is generally resolved pretty quick by the support team.

Tele IIJan 25, 20201 votes

So saying things like "lets go dragon", "play safe until 6", "top flash down, ready for gank", and other strategic calls arent neutral to you? Idk what you mean by you cant have chat without negativity or positivity. Theres no middle ground in your world? I understand that realistically you wont have it, because people are people and they will choose to be negative or positive if they want. But that doesnt mean chat cant be without negativity. Besides, not all negativity is punished. Im often negative in chat, saying things like "i suck" "shit im getting fucking owned", and ive never been punished. Its when you start being negative towards others that it starts ruining the experience for people and Riot takes notice because theyre trying to improve the experience for the general playerbase.

FlickedJan 25, 20201 votes

nice stealth edit

Tele IIJan 25, 20201 votes

{quoted}

nice stealth edit

Oh dude its a PROBLEM. Every single post I hit Post, and then read it again, add to it, edit here n there, read again, add some more. Its bad lol. Even now im doing it. You'd think I would do all this before posting it but noooo. Anyway, any thoughts? Agree or disagree? (With my other post, not this one lol)

DrunkenSheepzJan 25, 20201 votes

Think what he means is "we're only human" and apparently speaking at all makes us in the wrong...nobody really looks at the clips of gameplay unless its a gameplay issue, and a toxic lux got me chatbanned after she fed lane, practically sympathized at the start of gameplay then shat on me for not saving her when she fucked up...i felt sorry for their kai'sa...i mean the first game yeah i did go overboard i said hitler in the mix of the chat and thats a nono but don't lump me in with the second game that definately was not my fault. See I'm not against the bannings but must they put the second game that was innocent as one of my faults?...Maybe theyre just crackin down on people for the very fact its start of season and they really don't want any jerks goin around in ranked causin a ruckus...we've nothing to blame but ourselves at this point so I'm pretty sure we should all just stop fussing and start being adults...

UpgradesJan 26, 20201 votes

How is it strict when it takes quite a bit for you to even get punished, unless you have a super severe game of toxicity, and not only that, it gives you 4 chances. Unless ofc you say some pretty egregious things.