When reports are made

ElusiveSniper·Jan 30, 2017·1 votes·906 views

I think player reports should be able to be made before game start because their are a lot of times where the people are toxic in chat before the game and you want to dodge because you know they will be a problem during the game... but if you dodge you lose LP and they don't get reported so it is turns out to be a lose/lose situation for the players behaving... they lose LP if they dodge, and they lose LP if they attempt to play... (I know its not a for sure lose if they end up playing its not garunteed) but why should players be subjected to toxic players for 45 minutes... when its most likely going to be a loss.

43 Comments

Magical PlayerJan 30, 20171 votes

Prove a loss is 100% going to happen by someone saying something negative in pregame lobby

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

Read the post

Magical PlayerJan 30, 20172 votes

Read my comment

I said PROVE A LOSS IS 100%

Reporting prior to a game occuring is calling the cops because you smell a dank smell in your apartments it could be weed or it could be some cultural food or hell it could be mold growth in your bathroom But hey we judged it to be weed, prior to us actually looking for the cause

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

Re-read the post.... I never claimed it was 100% your comment is moot since I didn't say it was 100% why would I prove its 100% if I never said it? That does not make any sense... and I am not reporting them for causing me a loss. I am reporting them for being toxic in chat. I dodge out of fear of losing and wasting 45 minutes of my time. Toxicity is reportable.

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

My point is that I don't like wasting 45 minutes of my time in a game where theirs high chances its going to be a loss due to toxicity, so just like most players in every ELO instead we choose to dodge and take the LP loss without the player getting reported "FOR TOXICITY".

SarutobiJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

My point is that I don't like wasting 45 minutes of my time in a game where theirs high chances its going to be a loss due to toxicity, so just like most players in every ELO instead we choose to dodge and take the LP loss without the player getting reported "FOR TOXICITY".

but thats under the impression the people will report only for toxicity. like i said before what's stopping someone from false reporting either for going off meta, not liking your team comp, or the enemies team comp. you basically report for anything and to an extent have it validated, but the fact of the matter you are not only getting a free report, but also a dodge. you basically want to get free dodges when you see fit.

Ive had people be toxic in pre-game chat but once the game started they played seriously. now that doesnt happen all the time, but its hard to tell who is going to take the game seriously until they are actually in the game and by then it's already too late!

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

Reporting before the game doesn't stop someone from false reporting. False reporting will happen before and after the game.

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

(sorry didn't get a full reply and its not about someone playing serious or not, its about someone being toxic, or racist in pre-game chat that causes a bad environment)

SarutobiJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Reporting before the game doesn't stop someone from false reporting. False reporting will happen before and after the game.

true, but when you get the incentive of getting a free dodge out of it people will false report even more!

SkencerJan 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Ly7GE3R2,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-30T03:23:55.545+0000)

Read my comment

I said PROVE A LOSS IS 100%

Reporting prior to a game occuring is calling the cops because you smell a dank smell in your apartments it could be weed or it could be some cultural food or hell it could be mold growth in your bathroom But hey we judged it to be weed, prior to us actually looking for the cause

Actually his idea has merit. Our Aatrox said in chat for us all to dodge because he intended to feed the whole game. And shockingly enough.... he did. Now not everyone will do that and his idea isn't perfect but I'd love the ability to see another play cussing us out in pre-game or telling everyone that they're gonna feed and troll and being able to say "I believe you" and simply have our team ban him and remake the lobby. I get it, I've had those very people turn around and play well and we win but it's always stressful and if the game is going to be stressful then there's no reason to play it. It wouldn't be perfect but you can't deny that it has merit. Also it's more like calling the cops because you hear the drunk neighbor yell "I'm going to kill you you fucking whore". Not always gonna follow through on that, but I'd rather call it in and not have the occurrence where they follow through.

Magical PlayerJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Actually his idea has merit. Our Aatrox said in chat for us all to dodge because he intended to feed the whole game. And shockingly enough.... he did. Now not everyone will do that and his idea isn't perfect but I'd love the ability to see another play cussing us out in pre-game or telling everyone that they're gonna feed and troll and being able to say "I believe you" and simply have our team ban him and remake the lobby. I get it, I've had those very people turn around and play well and we win but it's always stressful and if the game is going to be stressful then there's no reason to play it. It wouldn't be perfect but you can't deny that it has merit. Also it's more like calling the cops because you hear the drunk neighbor yell "I'm going to kill you you fucking whore". Not always gonna follow through on that, but I'd rather call it in and not have the occurrence where they follow through.

To be straight with you, if you hear a drunk yelling IM GOING TO KILL YOU, call the cops. However comparing that situation to league, where people can only type, the situation is more aligned to how I put it. You smell dank shit, you call cops, dank shit could be anything but weed. If you feel a game is unwinnable in lobby you as a player have the right to dodge, we have a system in place already that accepts a players choice. If we install a system where people can force dodges for free, then no game will occur

In addition if you call the cops, and cops find nothing. You'll be left with a bill to pay for their services. Prank calling 911 is no joke, and costs alot of money depending on where you live.

SkencerJan 30, 20171 votes

But you're ignoring the possibilities of promo's. You're right if you want a small penalty on your account you can indeed dodge. but it does absolutely no good if you're dodging a match because of a troll, only to count as a loss due to it being a promo. Given that I normally get two matches every promo where someone does something like this...... it basically is the main reason that I never climb the ladder.

Magical PlayerJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But you're ignoring the possibilities of promo's. You're right if you want a small penalty on your account you can indeed dodge. but it does absolutely no good if you're dodging a match because of a troll, only to count as a loss due to it being a promo. Given that I normally get two matches every promo where someone does something like this...... it basically is the main reason that I never climb the ladder.

You weigh your options and decide for yourself as to a good reason to dodge is. I have rarely experience trolling in any large capacity I've played across several mmr's this season, hundreds of games in bronze/silver/gold(on smurfs) I ran into 3 games I had to dodge because a person claimed something along these lines. Im not saying the possibility doesn't exist im saying it has such a low rate of appearing it shouldnt be factored into the system.

SkencerJan 30, 20171 votes

I desperately wish I had your luck here. I can rarely ever play solo queue anymore because it seems like every other game has a troll of some sort. Sometimes they are just annoying but I'd say that at minimum 25% of my games have someone that is specifically trying to ruin them. And admittedly if I'm not in promos then I'd probably just dodge them but I tend to be in a perpetual state of promo (rarely rank up but never more than 2 games away) xD

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

I wish I had his luck as well I have had bad luck lately too its so sad

SarutobiJan 30, 20171 votes

I do kinda agree with Magical. You basically want them to be punished without actually doing anything. With that said though breaking the rules is breaking the rules, but still i can see this being abused by reporting people who go off meta, or for something false, and you basically get a free dodge because of it.

I mean to put it into terms relevant to league it would be like reporting someone who has the Pick intent of a champion that doesnt normally go into that role and reporting them for troll. This would be wrong because you have no idea how they are going to play and already making a false claim that they will be bad thus setting up a negative environment!

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

Toxicity is punishable, and so is racism.

SarutobiJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Toxicity is punishable, and so is racism.

When did i say it wasn't? i agree with you, but again this doesnt change the fact that you want a free report, and a free dodge for any reason. thats the problem. I agree if someone is toxic they not only deserve a report, but punished as well. But what is stopping someone from falsely reporting someone or any other reason than toxicity?

Ive seen people call out toxicity because they werent given their role/champion and the teammate who did get that role refused to trade roles. that could mean they were toxic, but if your example was in place it wouldnt matter you could still report and dodge the game all because someone didnt get their role. you need to look at it from all angles.

This can work in theory. but judging by how the community is i highly doubt it would work as intended and thus leaving people to abuse it.

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

"you want them to be punished without actually doing anything" is what you wrote which was why I made my response of "toxicity is punishable" and if we are able to freely report people and get them banned before the game, then you can do so after the game... that is on riot not us for banning players who didn't do anything.... It should be within their capability to go over reports that does not fall under our responsibility and if they are falsely banning people due to false reports then I am sure that is happening after the game as well. (I also speak on behalf of the players who are truly reporting players for misbehavior) Not claiming that false reports cant happen, but its another incident of where I think it could happen just as much after the game as before the game.

Magical PlayerJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

"you want them to be punished without actually doing anything" is what you wrote which was why I made my response of "toxicity is punishable" and if we are able to freely report people and get them banned before the game, then you can do so after the game... that is on riot not us for banning players who didn't do anything.... It should be within their capability to go over reports that does not fall under our responsibility and if they are falsely banning people due to false reports then I am sure that is happening after the game as well. (I also speak on behalf of the players who are truly reporting players for misbehavior) Not claiming that false reports cant happen, but its another incident of where I think it could happen just as much after the game as before the game.

Them typing out words, and them performing actions is different By adding additional reporting options would do what? Flag a game for review? but wait the game didnt occur, so we flagged what?

The system works because it flags games, if we limit the scope to pregame lobby only we'd see 3 lines of text from a person.

I also want to note, you are not in any position to speak for others. I report people who break tos and it is my belief that pregame lobby is not enough to warrant a punishment.

I'm past the point of talking about false reports, im talking about lack of support behind reports 3 lines of text does nothing towards developing a case againist a person. Now if they're going off the wall doing 40-100 lines of text in pre game lobby sure, it becomes viable. These cases are rare, most lobbies are silent with little to nothing said. Adding a feature for the once in a million games, is almost pointless and would result in more false reporting period.

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

And if riot is punishing for 3 lines of text then that would be on them. At least we got to report someone for toxicity.

Magical PlayerJan 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And if riot is punishing for 3 lines of text then that would be on them. At least we got to report someone for toxicity. Punished for a history. not just this one game

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

Correct they are punished for a history and not just one game ^ that would not be 3 lines of text. But, if they are banning for 3 lines of text it would be on them.

Magical PlayerJan 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Correct they are punished for a history and not just one game ^ that would not be 3 lines of text. But, if they are banning for 3 lines of text it would be on them.

Inside 1 game, you can be punished for %%% in 1 line of text in another game you could go on a rampage of 50 lines of toxicity and be punished there

both games build a history agonist a person, riot wants to only punish those who consistently show toxic attitudes

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

Incorrect... you are punished for a series of reports. But, I do not understand your point?

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

(And, I have tons of room to talk, I am a player with an opinion. You can not take that away sorry.)

Magical PlayerJan 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

(And, I have tons of room to talk, I am a player with an opinion. You can not take that away sorry.)

You claimed you're speaking for others... (I also speak on behalf of the players who are truly reporting players for misbehavior) Im telling you that in fact you are not speaking for others.... You can only speak for yourself unless you have been chosen to represent a group of people Which in this case nobody elected you, unless you wanna be a self elected representative You have an opinion, i never said you didnt. My statement is your opinion is not what the majority think

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

And, I am speaking behalf of others my friends that I play league with those are other people.

SarutobiJan 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

"you want them to be punished without actually doing anything" is what you wrote which was why I made my response of "toxicity is punishable" and if we are able to freely report people and get them banned before the game, then you can do so after the game... that is on riot not us for banning players who didn't do anything.... It should be within their capability to go over reports that does not fall under our responsibility and if they are falsely banning people due to false reports then I am sure that is happening after the game as well. (I also speak on behalf of the players who are truly reporting players for misbehavior) Not claiming that false reports cant happen, but its another incident of where I think it could happen just as much after the game as before the game.

Yes but you are missing the point im trying to make. We all know Toxicity is punishable. But what about people who lie? you idea assumes everyone who uses it will use it properly, and in this type of world that is never the case. You will have people abusing the system just as they do in real life, that suffers little to no punishment.

The way your idea works seems like its the Instant Feedback just used before the match instead of after. At least when it happens after the match it can back track with how that game went along with the previous matches. Whereas if you report before and again assuming they are lying how does it check? would it validate the report right then and there, how would that correlate with champ select. its a pretty quick process and your idea would need to be just as fast if not faster.

Thats the reason why i believe it cannot work. You basically want a free pass (both dodging a game and reports) without the need to validate that report. It can help im not arguing that, i just fear that more people will abuse it so they can climb faster because theyll just "report" a random person to dodge or any reason other than toxicity.

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

"What about people who lie" how does it stop people from lying about it after game? Also the system only punishes if it detects certain words and on a history of it. So you can not just say "this player was toxic" if their was no real toxicity. Also if the system is banning without any real toxicity... That is again on riot not the ones reporting. I believe the sentence above basically answers everything in all 3 paragraphs.

Magical PlayerFeb 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

"What about people who lie" how does it stop people from lying about it after game? Also the system only punishes if it detects certain words and on a history of it. So you can not just say "this player was toxic" if their was no real toxicity. Also if the system is banning without any real toxicity... That is again on riot not the ones reporting. I believe the sentence above basically answers everything in all 3 paragraphs.

Have you seen the board posts on here asking "why they were punished they weren't toxic"

ElusiveSniperFeb 2, 20171 votes

Honestly, I don't see how that is relevant again? "why they were punished they weren't toxic" thats what how it is with the current (after the game) I am not saying that putting it before game also will stop false reports or stop people from lying. But, you are basically arguing points of why it shouldn't be before the game... but, those points argue that it shouldn't be after the game either.

people can lie ----------- Yes they can, but so can they after game
People would be punished even though they aren't toxic ------- That already happens with it after game how would it make it better or worse at all?

I understand what you guys are saying but the things you guys are saying effects everyone before and after the game regardless where we set the ban system.

SarutobiFeb 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

"What about people who lie" how does it stop people from lying about it after game? Also the system only punishes if it detects certain words and on a history of it. So you can not just say "this player was toxic" if their was no real toxicity. Also if the system is banning without any real toxicity... That is again on riot not the ones reporting. I believe the sentence above basically answers everything in all 3 paragraphs.

At least they wouldnt get anything out of it. when someone reports someone it needs to be validated. With it being the end of the game as i said before it can check that game and the games before. this obviously takes time. So when it checks all the games prior it can punish accordingly. You want it to basically punish with little to no evidence, plus give people a free dodge to the game!

ElusiveSniperFeb 2, 20171 votes

Didn't say little to no evidence if riot is punishing people for too little evidence(which apparently they are already even with it being after game) then its on riot... not the one reporting.

Magical PlayerJan 30, 20171 votes

you can still report a player open a support ticket XYZ was toxic in pregame lobby copy past the logs you have time stamp screen shots if able

Our point still stands you assume because someone acts one way there is 100% chance of loss once the game begins. without even letting them play.........

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

Really? a riot member told me it had to be through the game. Maybe I will try that again.

ElusiveSniperJan 30, 20171 votes

And no, i assume that they are gonan get away with it if I dodge.

Magical PlayerJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And no, i assume that they are gonan get away with it if I dodge.

You can open a support ticket, weather a punishment is taken or if they inform you of such is not going to be said. But it does till count as a report

Magical PlayerJan 31, 20171 votes

A series of reports builds a history of toxic behavior, 1 games of reports is not what gets you punished unless you break the insta punish words %%% example

a patter so to speak that is easy to recognize by the IFS

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

That's what I am saying........... that goes in favor with my point above? I don't understand? If a series of toxic behavior is what gets a player punished then what is wrong with my above statement?

Magical PlayerJan 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's what I am saying........... that goes in favor with my point above? I don't understand? If a series of toxic behavior is what gets a player punished then what is wrong with my above statement?

I was under the impression that you felt it took 9x reports per game to get someone punished So i was restating that its not the amount of reports needed its more of the pattern of toxicity that a user shows/develops inside the game that the ifs can recognize and punish

However, it is also possible to be punished after 1 game, using words %%% can skip punishment tiers all together

ElusiveSniperJan 31, 20171 votes

I still don't understand this at all. Like I understand what your saying, but it doesn't make any sense to what ive written in the title. If they are using words %%% assuming you mean the really bad ones. Then I don't see the issue with my post or proposal. Of course I don't mind if it goes either way I really doubt reporting them before the game will really help anyone anyway since reporting players after the game rarely takes any effect... I have even had players come in and act toxic and claim they can do it once every now and then as long as its not constant.

Magical PlayerFeb 2, 20171 votes

The reason it is after game, is if you go into game and do that. You directly impacting team performance. in pregame lobby, im sure most not all but most people are not even reading chat.

Prior to the game begining anything said, is pointless. Unless they go to such extreme's kys, racial slurs.

End game lobby, if they continue their behavior the game and pregame lobby become instantly available to riot to review

Its, more along the lines of you can't truly understand a persons motives in 5 lines of texts but in 50 lines you can make a good assumption.

More wood to burn makes a bigger fire, pregame lobby is a starter log, sure it burns but it doesn't burn hot/bright.