Boards›Player Behavior

This Community is Out of Hand and Your Attempts to Fix It Have Made It Worse

Wa Wa Wa ooo··3 votes·1,506 views

First things first. I have only ever been banned or suspended in any game ever for about 3 hours from WoW for saying fuck 10 years ago.

I have had an account perma-banned and been reported multiple times in this game. I am competitive and I get embarrassingly mad sometimes at this game and the people playing it.

That said, asking someone for help or telling them to fuck off because they refuse to acknowledge you can contribute to the team is not toxic. You have created an environment with a pack mentality. I just played a game where my support was basically questioning me from champ select, then proceeded to do next to nothing about the harass of the enemy support and eventually left the lane.

He was convinced I had no value to the team and the game hadn't even started. I muted the chat because I know that I a) get especially mad at shit like this because I know that RIOT aka you guys, literally don't give a shit about toxic playstyle and only about being fucking word police and b) I'm already on thin ice on my second account.

Then when I unmuted. I said the support didn't help me and that the enemy support carried their adc. I was told that I was garbage and to shut up. Then the same people who told me I was garbage and were telling me to shut up, told the enemy team to report me for being toxic.

This is a fucking joke. Your community is filled with scum who get away with being scum all day long because they don't curse or use team chat. Fuck the current system.

And one last thing. If I was professionally good at this game, or a streamer that put more eyes on your game I would get away with murder. The system you created is the most frustrating. I'm sure your response to this will be either no response at all, or a complete bullshit one telling me I'm the problem. I am growing increasingly more frustrated because my ability to rank up depends on the same people who sit afk and eat during the game and refuse to surrender even though they don't participate, hold the team hostage by saying if you disagree with them they will leave the game, or any number of the absurdly toxic playstyle these players have game in and game out.

TLDR: Word police bullshit is not helping the community when people with toxic playstyles run rampant and do whatever they want.

18 Comments

Kei1436 votes

Did you know, you can be punished without any swear words?

The IFS is a learning machine and can tell context. If you kept insulting and harassing others, you'd be punished.

Also, getting reported isn't the same as getting punished. The system has the capability to filter out false reports, so unless you did something wrong, the system will just discard those false reports.

Austin Covello2 votes

Dude, the IFS is a glorified e-mail spam filter. There was a whole article on how to game it to get other people suspended and get off scott-free.

Kei1432 votes

Yeah.. those ban baiters didn't get off scott free. Tantram took care of them.

That also led to pre-game and post-game displays in the reform card that we have now.

While there still are a few loop holes, I'm pretty sure they will be fixed soon.

Btw, only the zero tolerance part of the IFS is a chat filter. The learning machine part is a much more complexed system than what people imagine it to be.

Austin Covello1 votes

Bullshit. I still see "ban baiters" and they're still using a uniform technique, which means that they simply moved house to where you can't find them and made new accounts. The smart money is that they're still getting away with it.

As for the rest, I love the myth of a full-proof AI. There is no such thing, because a determined hacker can break any system and no computer will ever be as complex or adaptable as the human brain. The current system was compromised once, therefore it can be compromised again; ergo, we require a new system.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

They really aren't getting away with it. If an account is punished because of them, support will unban the victim. Which usually ends with another account banned.

Sure the baiters can make or buy another account, but that is only because there isn't a way to counter that.

Bijeesny1 votes

{quoted}

Did you know, you can be punished without any swear words?

The IFS is a learning machine and can tell context. If you kept insulting and harassing others, you'd be punished.

Also, getting reported isn't the same as getting punished. The system has the capability to filter out false reports, so unless you did something wrong, the system will just discard those false reports.

If IFS is 'a learning machine and can tell context' and ' is a much more complex system than what people imagine it to be' how come it can't detect any sort of troll beyond full Disco Nunu and using Tahm's and Anivia's W? If it can tell context behind some1's words, it should tell the contex behind some1's ingame actions. If it's such a complex system, how come it can be bypassed with ease?

Do I really need to remind every1 about that guy who was able to troll 1 month straight while gathering 511 reports until he got caught just to get fucking 14-day ban? Or Killtaiwaneese, who's putting 5+ hour videoes on yt of him running down mid? Or Elave, who trolled 200+ games for God knows how long until he got caught?

Maybe trolls do get caught sometimes, but by the time it happens, the damage is already being done, and it's so slow it's fucking pathetic. I would expect shit like this from some rookie highschool 'gaming' company, not some MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY.

If they have resources, and ability to create 'complex self-learning system', then fucking use it to remove trolls from the game.

Kei1431 votes

The learning machine part of the IFS refers to verbal detections only.

The simple cases of inting can be detected by the IFS, but trolling punishment is currently largely a manual review operation.

It's a common mistake that people confuse the separate systems and combine them together. From a programming standpoint, the verbal detection system and gameplay detection system are **VERY ** different from each other.

Bijeesny1 votes

{quoted}

The learning machine part of the IFS refers to verbal detections only.

The simple cases of inting can be detected by the IFS, but trolling punishment is currently largely a manual review operation.

It's a common mistake that people confuse the separate systems and combine them together. From a programming standpoint, the verbal detection system and gameplay detection system are **VERY ** different from each other.

Just because they are different doesn't mean it's not possible to make gameplay detection system. Imma just ask this: How come CSGO doesn't have any issues with stuff like that? You can intentionally lose the game there aswell, and yet, from what I heard from my friends who play it, aswell as yt-bers/streamers, cheaters and griefers are being caught with ease. I don't think money is the issue since once again, MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY. So the only possibility is that Riot is too lazy to handle it, unlike Valve, who actually respects their player's experience and they don't look at their playerbase as cash cows.

Kei1431 votes

Cheaters are easily punished in LOL as well, same with the simple griefers that run it down mid and dance.

The more complexes cases are harder for the automated system to learn from; if I look back to my past 20 games where someone asked to report an inter, I can safely say that none of those were valid inting reports.

League receieves million+ reports every day, of those reports there are a bunch of reports that is easy for the human eye to identify whether it is true / false inting. But if you were to throw a program in there and tell it to learn without proper guidelines, the system will just ban everyone falsely.

So the hard part is for Riot to identify a pattern (from a programming perspective) to firmly say "this is inting 100% of the time it is reproduced ". What if a karthus decided to run into the enemy turret and zone them off while suiciding? Is that inting?

Not only they have to filter through the millions of false reports, they have to fine the exact coding that identifies what is a punishable offense. Not saying it's not doable, it's just that it is harder than you think and will take longer to create those guidelines for the system.

Bijeesny1 votes

{quoted}

Cheaters are easily punished in LOL as well, same with the simple griefers that run it down mid and dance.

I never said anything about cheaters in League, I mentioned cheaters in CSGO cuz they are one type of player that RUINS the game for others, just as inters are the League type. And about griefers...once again....SOME DUDE WAS DOING IT FOR ONE MONTH STRAIGHT HOW THE FUCK IS THAT EASILY PUNISHING THEM? IF IT WAS 'EASILY PUNISHING' HE WOULD GET PUNISHED IN A DAY OR TWO, NOT IN A WHOLE FUCKING MONTH MATE.

The more complexes cases are harder for the automated system to learn from; if I look back to my past 20 games where someone asked to report an inter, I can safely say that none of those were valid inting reports.

Soooo automated system has an artificial brain of a kid with mental disabilites? Cuz for a system that's been up for several years probably, it's a fucking slow learner xD

League receieves million+ reports every day, of those reports there are a bunch of reports that is easy for the human eye to identify whether it is true / false inting. But if you were to throw a program in there and tell it to learn without proper guidelines, the system will just ban everyone falsely.

If it's easy for a human eye why not use...human eyes, a.k.a. League's fucking massive playerbase? And in case you will say 'but it's 2 much reports to handle', again, how does CSGO handle all those reports?

So the hard part is for Riot to identify a pattern (from a programming perspective) to firmly say "this is inting 100% of the time it is reproduced ". What if a karthus decided to run into the enemy turret and zone them off while suiciding? Is that inting?

If they didn't try to use a program to solve human problems, there would be no hard steps :)) (see my previous paragraph in case you're learning as fast as automated system :P

Not only they have to filter through the millions of false reports, they have to fine the exact coding that identifies what is a punishable offense. Not saying it's not doable, it's just that it is harder than you think and will take longer to create those guidelines for the system.

Well, if the whole department responsible for all these player behaviour stuff isn't dying of cancer, they have a lot of time to code it....or they can go the easier way...and pay people who build Overwatch system for CSGO :)

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

The report system is fine, because pack mentality doesn't work in it as number of reports in 1 game don't matter.

Riot actually does care about toxic gameplay, otherwise they wouldn't ban trolls or int feeders. However, it is a lot easier to find verbal problems. It is why verbal punishments have more steps/chances until a perma. Verbal gets a 10 game chat restrict, 25 game chat restrict, 14 day, and then perm. Gameplay gets 14 day then perm.

Asking for help is perfectly fine. No one is required to give you that help though. Also it doesn't fucking care with people cuss. It does care if you harass people with the language.

What streamer/pro is getting away with murder? Pretty sure they get punished like anyone else when they get reported.

Wa Wa Wa ooo1 votes

Jensen, Tryler1.

Also Doublelift does nothing but call everyone else trash and they make featurettes about it. If I do that I will get banned.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

Jensen still has every account he had permabanned, permabanned. Tyler1 still has all the accounts he had permad, permad.

If it is video/stream and he verbally says it, then that is fine. Hell if you want to make a LoL video for YouTube saying how everyone is bronze and sucks donkey balls; you can do that and not get your account banned (remember verbally saying, not typing). If Doublelift is typing this stuff in games, he has to be reported to be punished. At higher elo, when you play with the same people often, they tend to not report.

afmghost1 votes

OH NO. WE GOT CALLED OUT. BETTER SWARM THIS THREAD WITH WORTHLESS BULLSHIT AND DOWNVOTE THIS AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

-The trolls attacking this thread-

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

Only troll I see is Trundle .

Maybe the downvotes are simply because people disagree with him?

As for bs, please elaborate.

afmghost1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LAx3oKcY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-15T16:28:21.474+0000)

Only troll I see is Trundle .

Maybe the downvotes are simply because people disagree with him?

As for bs, please elaborate.

I trust my experiences more than a mod's words.

I have seen so many people troll games and skate by without any heat, but if go "what the hell are you doing" to them, you're in trouble.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

Perspective twists experience. I've had friends I played with be accused of trolling when they were legitimately just having a bad game. Your perspective of other players isn't always realistic.

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

I am skeptical that is all that was said.

Most may start with that, but they rarely leave it at that, instead going on a tangent to make themselves feel better.

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