As far as Permanent Bans go

Frothy Mushroom·Nov 25, 2016·5 votes·2,335 views

There's no way to reform or get back into the good graces of Riot once permanently banned? The account is just blacklisted forever?

I find that extreme. Not defending my behavior at all, but a permanent account ban is the equivalent to what, execution?

I feel like there should be somewhere to turn if your account gets permabanned. And before anyone tries to be preachy and spell out the definition of "permanently banned" I'll go ahead and say that I am fully aware of what that means. I just disagree that there isn't any way to do something about it if a player genuinely wants to reform or get back on a positive path. I've got two other accounts with which to play, so it's not the biggest deal in the world to me. This is just the one that I had the most characters on.

Kind of sucks, yes, but I had it coming. I just don't understand why there's not a way to bring things back to a positive light.

126 Comments

WeatheredNov 26, 20169 votes

You are given multiple warnings prior to a permanent ban. For most people, if they aren't acknowledging those warnings strong action is needed to get the message across.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

In which I am in full agreement. It still doesn't answer the question as to why there isn't a way to go through a process of reform and clean the slate of a banned account through a little hard work.

Deep Terror NamiNov 26, 20166 votes

Because they tried it before and the result was that they put toxic players right back into the community for them to keep being toxic;

**Why can’t you give permanent banned players a second chance? You will receive a better player. **

Actually, this is the unfortunate problem. Allowing permanently banned players another chance is an extremely damaging cost. Do you know what the success rate of the Level 20 Challenge was? 5%. Do you know that for each person, they clearly outlined the toxic behaviors and had 1 on 1 conversations with the players to try to improve their behavior? These are players that were hand-picked by Player Support staff because they felt the pleas from these players were genuine. The success rate was still 5%.

Do you know how many games on average these players played? 100 games / month. When a permanently banned player fails to reform, they are creating miserable experiences for hundreds, maybe thousands of players a month. That's not a cheap cost or a low risk and we cannot consciously justify that, for the sake of the rest of our players.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2411284

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

Right, I've actually read this before and understand that their methods didn't pan out, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't develop an actually successful way of enabling players that genuinely want to change. I'll be honest, I was well aware that I was already on thin ice, but I got reported last night while playing a game that I told another player I'd be reporting them for being toxic.

That specific game I literally didn't even say anything but "I'll make sure to report you" and argued that what said toxic player was saying didn't really matter, they were still going to get a report from me. I suppose perhaps that game was thrown in my face as me having a negative attitude, but I didn't think that letting someone know they would be reported for harassing our junlger was a reportable offense.

Ya live ya learn.

Deep Terror NamiNov 26, 20163 votes

What kind of system do you think might prove more effective than manually vetting and having a 1 on 1 with players Riot thought were genuinely willing to reform?

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

You're telling me that Riot actually had constructive 1 on 1 conversations with people that were enlightening learning experiences for both parties involved? I absolutely don't believe that. I think that most of those conversations probably went more like.

"Hi. It has come to our attention that you've been getting a great deal of attention in the tribunal lately and we were wondering if there was anything that we could do to help."

"Actually I suppose I've just been dealing with a lot lately. I'll work on it. Sorry."

"Alright then. Thanks for your time!"

Can't really capture tone or sincerity over a few words on a glowing screen, dude. I'm saying why doesn't the player have more that they can do in order to help themselves reform rather than just getting a slap on the wrist coupled with a message that says, "Hey! You just got yourself a chat ban. Better start acting right.", for lack of a precise quote.

Deep Terror NamiNov 26, 20163 votes

Ok you made an assumption about how it worked and claim it wasn't effective based on that guess, but you didn't answer the question.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

What kind of system, right?

How about any other system besides one that's so final? How about allowing players the power to disable chat? How about allowing them to limit their own chat messages during a game? How about giving players options to learn from and work tribunals in order to gain back a certain amount of credit over time and in that effort see just how toxic and disruptive other players can be so that maybe they could learn/see what they sounded like?

I'm saying that anything apart from giving up on it, which is what they did, would be better.

BladeSteelNov 26, 20162 votes

They did that basically. Gave "permanent" chat bans. The players then trolled and intentionally fed. So they have done that, so try again. Another thing other than "remove the chat".

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

See, I've never seen that this was offered, and given a player is having struggles containing their opinion in all chat or team chat, I figure that this should be something offered or at least there should be a way to disable chat. SOMETHING rather than nothing, right?

BladeSteelNov 26, 20163 votes

It was. It didn't work. If it doesn't work why should they do it? You got 4 chances and you blew them all, you can make another account and play on that one.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

Just because it didn't work for someone else doesn't mean it wouldn't work for me, and I don't think it's fair to assume that just because some people aren't smart enough to take advantage of it in the right way means that no one deserves it. Also, I've said more than once that I fully understand why I was banned and am willing to own up to my being difficult with other players in the community. I'm not asking for sympathy or leniency. I'm asking for a better way to handle situations like these with a more constructive answer than "permabanned".

I have two other accounts that I play on. Losing one isn't a big deal. Figuring out a way to adjust and improve my attitude is. It matters to me that there are(or should be) other answers besides an indefinite account suspension.

BladeSteelNov 26, 20164 votes

You had 3 CHANCES. when you got your first chat restriction you should have thought "oh, i could get banned i better stop". Did you? no. when you got the second chat restriction you could have thought "oh, i could get banned, in fact, im closer to being banned now, I better stop." but did you? no. When you had your 2 week ban you could have thought "oh i just got banned i better stop before its permanent". Did you think that? obviously not because you are now banned. Sorry, but you lost this account and you won't get it back. Why do you need more chances? why does anyone need chances? I have never gotten chat restricted or banned EVER. This system works. It "sucks" for you but you should have thought that before you got perma-banned.

BladeSteelNov 26, 20163 votes

Better to get them banned than have them in your system. They can "clean up their act" on a new account and if they're far worse then they get banned again. Why do they need longer than 2 weeks? why do you need more than 3 chances? Why? What would be the point? Riot has already answered that and said that those people who get that far, don't reform. Would you have reformed if you had a month ban? or a six month ban? or would it just have delayed your perma ban by 7 months. They have looked at things like that, and this is the best system.

BladeSteelNov 26, 20162 votes

Riot has already supplied the information that its the right system. You are also taking things by assumption, seeing as you haven't looked any of this up before posting, as seen by your obvious lack of knowledge of what riot has done in the past.

As I have said, they have already tried permanent chat bans. They didn't work. The toxic players, instead of being toxic in chat, were toxic in game play. They trolled, fed, and raged all game. Like now, instead of being toxic they would spam the ? ping all over their teammates. If you wanted to keep playing on your account you should have thought that before. You have the option to mute. AND LIKE HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE THEY TRIED PERMA-BANNING CHAT. IT DID NOT WORK. The toxic people turned into trolls to get their point across. research stuff before you make assumptions. You ignore everything that has been done, insisting that it does work, when it has been tried.

MartensiticNov 26, 20163 votes

Right, I've actually read this before and understand that their methods didn't pan out,

Wrong.

"Their methods" weren't the problem here. The players unchangeably toxic behaviour was.

And you are living proof of this:

That specific game I literally didn't even say anything but "I'll make sure to report you"

Report-threatening and report-calling are toxic behaviour.

but I didn't think that letting someone know they would be reported for harassing our junlger was a reportable offense.

There are literally thousand of cases here on the boards, where people got punished for report calling. You don't get to claim blessed ignorance here.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Wrong.

"Their methods" weren't the problem here. The players unchangeably toxic behaviour was.

And you are living proof of this:

Report-threatening and report-calling are toxic behaviour.

There are literally thousand of cases here on the boards, where people got punished for report calling. You don't get to claim blessed ignorance here.

Not wrong, because I didn't claim that their methods were their fault or the fault of the toxic players they were trying to help to reform. You're putting words into my mouth because you're trying to demonize my, form what I can gather. Saying that "...their methods didn't pan out" isn't anything other than an absolute fact. It has nothing to do with who's fault it was that they didn't work out the way they were expecting/planning for them to. Thanks, though.
I was told "I'm totally reporting this guy, you guys all should too. I'm sure he's going to report me anyway", in all chat by the player in question who sought to do the same thing that you are doing now and demonize me to the rest of the players in the game, and yes, I confirmed for him that I would make sure and report him for his reportable offenses because he openly stated, "I'm sure he's going to report me anyway."

There's a difference in confirming something and using a fact to try and lure someone into becoming unreasonable and toxic.

And you don't get to nitpick through comments and dump all over something that was started in the attempt of being proactive with impunity. Your first comment was literally an example of name calling. Something which you, as anti-toxic as you seem to want to appear, are guilty of in this very thread that you are crashing in an entirely negative way.

MartensiticNov 26, 20161 votes

Not wrong, because I didn't claim that their methods were their fault or the fault of the toxic players they were trying to help to reform. You're putting words into my mouth

No, its called "quoting you": "I've actually read this before and understand that their methods didn't pan out"

Maybe you need some help interpreting your own sentence, but this statement indicates that their method didn't work because of the method.

It wouldve worked with decent human beings. It didn't work because of the toxic assclowns they were trying to reform.

because he openly stated, "I'm sure he's going to report me anyway."

The wrongdoings of others do not excuse your own. If someone states that he is going to report you, mute him, report him. He will get punished.

If you are toxic as a reaction to a report-threat, then you are validating his report towards you.

So congratulation, not only did you manage to get yourself banned, you managed to get yourself baited into getting yourself banned. Hope you feel smart now ^^

And you don't get to nitpick through comments and dump all over something that was started in the attempt of being proactive with impunity.

I don't? Strange, because I don't remember having to ask your permission, sunshine.

omething which you, as anti-toxic as you seem to want to appear, are guilty of in this very thread that you are crashing in an entirely negative way.

There are different rules for what is allowed ingame, and what is allowed on the boards. Read the guidelines if you doubt that.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

No, its called "quoting you": "I've actually read this before and understand that their methods didn't pan out"

Maybe you need some help interpreting your own sentence, but this statement indicates that their method didn't work because of the method.

It wouldve worked with decent human beings. It didn't work because of the toxic assclowns they were trying to reform.

The statement that "their methods did not pan out" is a statement of fact, not a disagreement with they way they handled things or who's fault the result was. I don't need help understanding my own statement. You need help understanding what the statement was about because you're not paying very much attention, it seems. I fully agree that their effort to help players reform, which did fail, was entirely the fault of a toxic community that didn't take to their methods, but that had nothing to do with what I said.

"I've actually read this before and understand that their methods didn't pan out" - This is a clear and concise statement of fact which you have not figured out yet, so I'll give you plenty of time and even spell it out for you. There are two things to take from a statement like this.

I have actually read this aforementioned thread that lines out the decided actions, approach, attempts and results of their attack on community Toxicity.
Their methods(approach/plan/plot/system/process/mechanism), as clearly as I can put this, did not work. This does not, however, mean that I am placing blame on them. It, like I have already told you twice now, is a simple statement that we can both agree did not work out the way that they planned for it to.

That is all that this statement entails, yet you are trying to use it against me in a way that it cannot be used because you have fully and completely misunderstood it. That does not mean that I'll be able to keep you from arguing whatever fruitless point you are trying to make, however it does mean that you are arguing with yourself.

"And you don't get to nitpick through comments and dump all over something that was started in the attempt of being proactive with impunity."

"I don't? Strange, because I don't remember having to ask your permission, sunshine."

^A perfect example of the toxicity that you have been telling me that I am guilty of and have rightfully been banned for. You're doing exactly what you have been preaching against and being a toxic person and part of this community yourself, which is both uncalled for and unwarranted seeing as I'm not blowing up on anyone or flaming. You're just confirming for the community that you are a glaring example of a hypocrite and a toxic member of the community.

In that comment you have someone continuing to fruitlessly goad someone into anger or get a reaction by being openly sarcastic(which is a reportable offense) and using insulting and demeaning nicknames like "sunshine"(which is also a reportable offense.

Thank you for the example.

"something which you, as anti-toxic as you seem to want to appear, are guilty of in this very thread that you are crashing in an entirely negative way."

"There are different rules for what is allowed ingame, and what is allowed on the boards. Read the guidelines if you doubt that."

I don't doubt that at all, actually. I do, however, know that there is no room for being openly toxic towards community members who have shown you no measure of disrespect and who have not earned your hatred or distaste in any way. I am trying to be constructive and all you are doing is attempting to tear someone down who is trying to better themselves in order for you to appear a community hero of some kind when really you are just confirming the suggestion that you are just as toxic as anyone else and are in fact part of the problem.

Thank you again for your comments.

MartensiticNov 27, 20161 votes

The statement that "their methods did not pan out" is a statement of fact, not a disagreement with they way they handled things

Subtle rethoric games have been a part of my life for many years my friend, and you are far from being good at the craft.

I recognise a cheap trick when I see one. Your statement was deliberately worded in a fashion to lay the blame at riots feet, proclaiming they somehow didn't try hard enough. Throwing around the apologetic nosense masked as rational discussion of your words, wont hide that fact from me.

yet you are trying to use it against me in a way that it cannot be used

Apparently it can. You just didn't expect someone to be a) smart enough to see through the way you word things, and b) bored enough to call you out on it.

In that comment you have someone continuing to fruitlessly goad someone into anger or get a reaction by being openly sarcastic(which is a reportable offense) and using insulting and demeaning nicknames like "sunshine"(which is also a reportable offense.

Then by all means, use the "Report" button. Bottom right of the forum pane.

But you already know that, do you? Because I am sure you press that button as quickly as you press "downvote" on every post that doesn't agree with you. And yet nothing happens.

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Why is that you ask? Well, as I have explained to you repeatedly, the rules on the forum are different from those ingame.

I do, however, know that there is no room for being openly toxic towards community members who have shown you no measure of disrespect and who have not earned your hatred or distaste in any way.

This sentence alone shows such a deep misunderstanding of the behaviour system it made me chuckle. You seem to believe that toxicity can be allowed when the other person has "earned it" :D

No one here is openly toxic towards you. Sarcastically calling you out on an attempt to spread misinformation about Riots reformation attempts is not toxic.

I am trying to be constructive and all you are doing is attempting to tear someone down who is trying to better themselves

Wrong. I tear someones post down when they spread misinformation about the punishment system, laying the blame at riots feet, in an apologetic nonsense attempt at expaining away their responsibility.

Your entire post boils down to this:

"We would all be less toxic if only Riot was better at reforming us".

And that is simply BS.

Frothy MushroomNov 27, 20161 votes

The statement that "their methods did not pan out" is a statement of fact, not a disagreement with the way they handled things.

"Subtle rethoric games have been a part of my life for many years my friend, and you are far from being good at the craft.

"I recognise a cheap trick when I see one. Your statement was deliberately worded in a fashion to lay the blame at riots feet, proclaiming they somehow didn't try hard enough. Throwing around the apologetic nosense masked as rational discussion of your words, wont hide that fact from me."

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong again, dude. "Their methods did not pan out" is a statement of utter, complete and total fact. It doesn't matter what you THINK I mean or if you really believe that there is a secret, underlying meaning in my rhetoric. It's still TRUE. You can believe that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'm trying to lay blame at the keeper's feet, but the facts are these.

Their methods obviously didn't work or we wouldn't have such an issue with toxic behavior as we still do now, which also means that there is need for a better system to be implemented, of which there could be as long as Riot pulls the trigger on it. They might, they might not, but there's no harm in polling people's opinions and making the suggestion.
I have, time after time after time and including my original statement, mentioned that my panning was ABSOLUTELY justified and I fully accept the punishment for my actions in the game/in chat, so these people rolling in and trying to tell me why I was banned is a moot point because the point of the thread is not to complain, it's to improve a broken process and offer more than just a permanent ban to players who otherwise could reform. I'm not saying we're not given a few chances, because we are, just that maybe a three strike system isn't the most effective one that we could have in place.

and 3. You lost this argument and what I was saying("their methods did not pan out") a few posts ago, because you are flat out wrong, yet are still scraping and digging for an argument that you shot dead yourself a long time ago because you misinterpreted what I said. Also, even if I did have a "secret and underlying meaning" hitched to that comment, it wouldn't change the fact that it was still a true statement. It's okay, I understand why you're so fixated on this portion of the argument, and I also understand that it's a human condition to want to be right ALL the time, but you can't be. Every now and again you will be humbled, which is entirely what this thread is about. I'm trying to look on the brighter side of a permaban and both grow from it and strengthen a system that is not working.

yet you are trying to use it against me in a way that it cannot be used

"Apparently it can. You just didn't expect someone to be a) smart enough to see through the way you word things, and b) bored enough to call you out on it."

It's almost like you think you're having a presidential debate right now and that's not what this is. I'm here to offer people facts like, their system isn't working and that there are better ways to handle toxicity in the community, yet here you are so centrally focused on demonizing a comment that was meant to be taken in no other way than -this is a statement of fact-. Now, you can choose to believe that or not, but it doesn't change that it's fact, so I suppose in the long run it really doesn't matter what you think I mean by it, it's still true.

You can think you're the smartest person in the world if you want to, but based on the way you handle your haphazard arguments I think it's safe to assume that you're not. Neither am I, but I know what I mean when I say it, and I certainly don't need someone coming in and offering a broken accusation as a way of proving that I mean one thing or another because they're overthinking a statement of, you guessed it, FACT.

If you don't like the fact I have offered you can try to break it if you want to in an effort to lessen or invalidate it, but it's still true and it's still obvious.

In that comment you have someone continuing to fruitlessly goad someone into anger or get a reaction by being openly sarcastic(which is a reportable offense) and using insulting and demeaning nicknames like "sunshine"(which is also a reportable offense.

"Then by all means, use the "Report" button. Bottom right of the forum pane.

But you already know that, do you? Because I am sure you press that button as quickly as you press "downvote" on every post that doesn't agree with you. And yet nothing happens.

"Why is that you ask? Well, as I have explained to you repeatedly, the rules on the forum are different from those ingame."

-Fruitless derailing of the overall point. I'm not here to debate with you on the way the forums function or that they carry a different rule set from LoL in game. I know that they do, and I'll use the report button as liberally as I like as long as you and other posters insist on handling themselves in such a destructive way. If trolling, toxicity, foul language, aggressive nature and harassment weren't reportable offenses then there wouldn't be a button for it, so I don't really know why you're so proud to make a comment like this one, but it's really not even relevant.

I do, however, know that there is no room for being openly toxic towards community members who have shown you no measure of disrespect and who have not earned your hatred or distaste in any way.

"You seem to believe that toxicity can be allowed when the other person has "earned it" :D"

No I'm not. That's ridiculous and I would never believe anything even remotely akin to that. This is just you trying to manipulate my words again to try to make me look like a fool, but you're doing so in rather weak way. Throwing up smiley faces amidst your host of spelling errors paired with a comment like this which is clearly trying to devalue what I said is counterproductive. You realize that, right?

This is just another example of you trying to demonize and skew rhetoric that you don't agree with because it's better than what you could come up with. So, instead of trying to be serious, you're trying to reduce this debate or conversation, whatever you'd like to call it, to a playground argument.

I am trying to be constructive and all you are doing is attempting to tear someone down who is trying to better themselves

"Wrong. I tear someones post down when they spread misinformation about the punishment system, laying the blame at riots feet, in an apologetic nonsense attempt at expaining away their responsibility.

Your entire post boils down to this:

"We would all be less toxic if only Riot was better at reforming us".

And that is simply BS."

Wrong again, friend. Your inability to not actively and constantly try and see a secondary or underlying meaning to every single thing that someone says is extremely concerning. I don't know how you're every supposed to have a successful relationship when you've already proven to me, some guy on the internet, that you will argue aimlessly and blindly without fail and until the very in regardless of if you're wrong or not, but I seriously feel sorry for your current or future family and significant others.

There's got to be a point in which you allow someone to get through to you, and just because you don't agree with the title of the book doesn't mean you can't enjoy and grow from the information within. You're letting pride get the better of you, and the more you fight this losing battle, the less constructive and valid your argument will become.

For fun, though, we'll break this one down.

--"Wrong. I tear someones post down when they spread misinformation about the punishment system, laying the blame at riots feet, in an apologetic nonsense attempt at expaining away their responsibility."--

The current system of punishment in response to community toxicity DOES NOT work. - Fact
There are better ways to approach community toxicity and chat/in game misconduct than our current three strikes system which have even been illustrated by other MOBAs like DOTA 2. - Fact
I have not once laid blame at Riot's feet and have more than once openly embraced my punishment while admitting that I fully understand the reason I received said punishment. That does not, however, mean that I cannot question their current methods as ineffective, which I believe that they are. You can disagree with that if you'd like, but this is not, by definition, misinformation. - Fact

--"We would all be less toxic if only Riot was better at reforming us".--

Nope. Wrong again. My entire post boils down to this.

"While I fully understand and accept the repercussions of my actions that were openly in disagreement with Riot's current policies on in game behavior, I genuinely believe that the system is broken and in need of repair or overhaul in order to make the system more effective and give us a better opportunity, as a community, to discipline and restrict ourselves which in the long run may be more proactive."

Thanks,

MartensiticNov 28, 20162 votes

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong again, dude.

Hey look, its the Drumpfology approach to arguments. Your opponent says something: Murmur "Wrong!" and rely on stupid people to believe you ^^

You basically spent 3 or 4 paragraphs trying to spin your message in a way you WANT it to be interpreted, which of course doesn't convince anyone. That alone shows how much feeling of "being caught" my comment caused.

Give it up sunshine, you lost that one, publicly.

It's almost like you think you're having a presidential debate right now and that's not what this is.

True, because in a presidential debate, I would have to put in real effort. This is just morning massage to my prefrontal cortex to be honest.

I'm here to offer people facts like, their system isn't working and that there are better ways to handle toxicity in the community

Their system works pretty well I would say. Proof: It got you banned ;-)

And when you say "there are better ways", and then fail to provide any examples for a better way other than "remove my ban!!!!11!!!1!", it is clear to everyone reading your posts, that you are not in the least interested in a better way of handling things, nor have any clue on how to make things better. You just want your account back.

Fruitless derailing of the overall point. I'm not here to debate with you on the way the forums function or that they carry a different rule set from LoL in game. I know that they do, and I'll use the report button as liberally as I like as long as you and other posters insist on handling themselves in such a destructive way. If trolling, toxicity, foul language, aggressive nature and harassment weren't reportable offenses then there wouldn't be a button for it, so I don't really know why you're so proud to make a comment like this one, but it's really not even relevant.

Translation: "Its not relevant, because it doesn't work the way I would like it to work!" :D

And if you are not here to debate forum rules vs. ingame rules, why insist on accusing me of toxicity in my replys to you, when you know they are baseless?

You contradict your own statements more and more.

Wrong again, friend. Your inability to not actively and constantly try and see a secondary or underlying meaning to every single thing that someone says is extremely concerning. I don't know how you're every supposed to have a successful relationship when you've already proven to me, some guy on the internet, that you will argue aimlessly and blindly without fail

Aimlessly and blindly? Hardly. My arguments had you on the defensive backfoot from the very first post, so I don't see whats "aimless" here.

Also, how is the ability to analyze and disassemble messages down to their underlying meaning an "inability"? ^^

The current system of punishment in response to community toxicity DOES NOT work. - Fact

Why, because you say its a fact? Sorry to smash the Drumpfology illusion, bute that's not how the world works. If you are toxic, you get punished. That's what is happening, and that constitutes a working system.

There are better ways to approach community toxicity and chat/in game misconduct than our current three strikes system which have even been illustrated by other MOBAs like DOTA 2. - Fact

Given that success of a videogame is measured in how many people are playing it, and DotA2 has less monthly unique players than league has DAILY unique players, you will fail in trying to convince people that DotAs ways of handling things are better.

They may benefit toxic people more, but the LoL community is nit interested in treating toxics nicely.

While I fully understand and accept the repercussions of my actions that were openly in disagreement with Riot's current policies on in game behavior, I genuinely believe that the system is broken...

...without offering any proof as to why it is supposedly broken.

...and in need of repair or overhaul in order to make the system more effective and give us a better opportunity....

...without any suggestions how to do that, not any measurement on a suggested increase in effetivity, nor any logical explanation offered why that would constitute a better system.

...as a community, to discipline and restrict ourselves which in the long run may be more proactive."

Its not the games duty to discipline you. If you cannot do that yourself, there is no place for you in this community.

As always, it was fun, looking forward to your next lengthy post.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Frothy MushroomNov 29, 20161 votes

"Hey look, its the Drumpfology approach to arguments. Your opponent says something: Murmur "Wrong!" and rely on stupid people to believe you ^^

Give it up sunshine, you lost that one, publicly."

-shakes head-

No. If I would have said "Hey, you're wrong." then I'd agree with you, but no I spent time explaining to you why you were wrong, which entirely nullifies your initial accusation that all I'm trying to do is say that "you're wrong" in order to win a debate. I'm telling you you're wrong because you are, in fact, wrong, and then I'm going out of my way to explain to you why you are wrong, despite your intolerance of common sense, fact and any real understanding. You're the type of person to hold up a sign and parade around protesting during the presidential debates without considering what's on your sign to begin with. It wouldn't surprise me if you were the type to put "Trump's a racist" on a sign and fully support it despite having no physical evidence to support that claim. Just like, on the flip side of that coin, you'd put "Hilary's banging Putin" and think nothing of it because, first and foremost, you don't do much thinking to begin with.

Your arguments are aimless, tactless and weak, friend. Sorry, but that's the truth. You've reduced your responses to merely skewing my words to fit your own agenda and name calling because you have no facts to back up what you're saying. That's sad, man, and no matter what you say now, it's clear to both you, me, and everyone else reading this that you've given up and reduced your rhetoric to nothing but jokes and slander.

"True, because in a presidential debate, I would have to put in real effort. This is just morning massage to my prefrontal cortex to be honest."

This actually makes a lot of sense, because your arguments are poorly contrived and lacking any form of practiced approach, even if you claim that "Subtle rethoric games have been a part of my life for many years my friend, and you are far from being good at the craft." which if an utterly laughable statement. If you knew anything about "Subtle rhetoric"(which you could at the very least spell correctly) then you'd stop throwing insults and slights like some kid who didn't get the right color of xbox on Christmas and start building an argument which you haven't had from the start.

"Their system works pretty well I would say. Proof: It got you banned ;-)

And when you say "there are better ways", and then fail to provide any examples for a better way other than "remove my ban!!!!11!!!1!", it is clear to everyone reading your posts, that you are not in the least interested in a better way of handling things, nor have any clue on how to make things better. You just want your account back."

The portion of your comment in bold was a sad attempt at goading me into anger, which is more playground trash talk and a direct example of the Toxicity you are so avidly soldiering against. Thank you for yet another glaring example of the problem. Much appreciated.

Also, I have not once in the entirety of this thread asked for my account to be unbanned. I have been asking questions as to why there are not better systems in place for player reform because, as it stands, there are none. Simply put, there is a three strike warning system in place that is not in any way supportive of reform and instead gives players the short, direct truth, which would be fine if it was actually helping this people recover from their emotional issues, issues with stress, issues dealing with other players(like you) who make brash, arrogant, annoying and tasteless little slights and comments in order to pick and pry at their nerves which, in some cases, are already exposed. That doesn't help anyone, and I can tell that, by the way you compose yourself, you've been just as toxic for the community as some of the very same people on the forms complaining about their permanent bans.

All I'm wanting is a different system that's more effective and asking questions to try and bring this better way of doing things to the table for examination.

As far as your ASSUMPTION that I haven't provided any examples or methods for improvement of this community and it's way of handling toxicity, you are wrong yet again, but you'd know that if you cared to do any reading at all. Just because I haven't provided them to you, specifically, during our little debate, doesn't mean they haven't been mentioned in other conversations with other members of the community. Just to go ahead and prove you wrong again... let me go ahead and pick out some of my quoted suggestions that you can find in this thread had you chosen to do any form of research to support your broken argument.

Here's a quote from a nice conversation I've been having with TyrekGoldenspear

"I know I'm guilty, and I fully embrace the punishment that I was afforded for having an absolutely horrible attitude. My battle isn't "Was I or was I not a total scumbag?" and it's not "Give me my account back!" It's
1. Can we make the system more effective in the effort of reform? Is there a way for players to genuinely put forth the effort to earn back a measure of respect and grace from the community they previously have harmed? and
2. Can we implement systems or tools that allow players to address their own attitude issues when they have next to no control over that aspect of their client? They simply get reported, get banned, and if the issue resurfaces enough they lose their account forever. That's not a good process, and it's been provably failing for a long time."

AND here's another portion of conversation with the same person in this very same thread that you haven't bothered to read because you don't like doing that, though I'd suggest it. It really helps to understand what's actually going on in a debate like this instead of running around making ignorant assumptions only to throw out irrelevant, groundless and untrue statements.

"If someone wants to play this game, they're gonna play it. Unless it's some streamer who can't visually show people that they're playing if they all know that the person they're watching has been IP banned. There is no real deterrent for keeping trolls and toxic players OFF of the game... so why not offer better systems for self reformation? Yes, yes, I realize that Riot has tried to cater to players before and assist in their reform and overall that failed, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about offering players the tools to assist in their own reform and reconditioning so that Riot literally doesn't have to worry about anything but dolling out chat and ranked bans to players that actively CHOOSE to ignore the tools at their disposal.

For instance. If I tell you to make a boat, what are you gonna do?

Are you going to make a boat? Okay... so make the boat... I don't have all day.

Instead of telling you to make a boat, why don't I leave my box of tools here for you so that you can make whatever you want? Be creative, proactive, dare to do yourself a little good. Make me a boat, or don't. Maybe make yourself something else.

"Make yourself something else" ... I like that. :P

Horrible example, I know, but it's quick and easy and best of all, it's to the point. ^_^"

Now, as far as my personal suggestions are concerned, if you'd like a better outline of them you can refer to this....

Firstly, it's clear that a Permaban isn't really doing the community any good, but muzzles have been working for Dota 2 for a looooooooooong time now. A Permanent chat ban would solve the issue of chat toxicity in a heartbeat, and if you'd like to stick to the current chat restriction process, that could fall perfectly into alignment with this suggestion. A permanent chat ban would allow for this member of the community to still remain a paying member of the community while being restricted to pings, which work just fine in my experience. Besides, if you really think that players who pay for skins and champ unlocks won't just as easily turn right around and spend the same money they were throwing at the Riot store on a new, bought level 30 account then you're crazy. Why wouldn't they? I'd be willing to bet that a massive portion of the community already has been, so what's the point of banning a player who's just going to come right back around the bend and start being toxic WITH chat privileges on a new, bought account? I figured this one would be obvious...
Added options for people who aren't being civil in games and are trolling, raging, feeding and generally being unpleasant in a way that isn't necessarily in regards to chat could be offered the same warnings as before until finally they dip down into a punishment queue with all the others who are going through disciplinary adjustments. Yes, this queue would probably be a disaster, but 50-100 games in a queue of people just as ill tempered as you could do you a lot of good, in all reality. Why? Because the best way to learn what it's like to put up with the way you sound and act is to see it first hand, and in this little realm of League of Legends hell, you'd be getting to see plenty of ragemuffins trying to work off a punishment.
Another idea is, along with issuing limited as well as indefinite chat bans, they could institute ranked game bans, which if we're all honest, most toxicity comes from an angry player that didn't make it through promos because their support went 1 and 9 or something. That, or maybe they didn't get as many ganks as they wanted, or any ganks at all. Maybe they think their mid didn't roam enough, but no matter what the case, it's always someone else's fault, which is why they say something snippy to one player, that player says something snippy right back and then, you guessed it, ANARCHY. Well, with a ranked queue ban of let's say 2 weeks, one month...

continued in next post...

Frothy MushroomNov 29, 20161 votes

50 games, 100 games? whatever guys would be comfortable with, would do a lot to give players that opportunity to get back into the game on a less stressful note. Force them to take their Tier or Rank or whatever out of the equation and get back to just enjoying the game because it's. It'd give players the opportunity to grow a little bit and practice their own levels of maturity.

Last, but certainly not least, I have already made the suggestion more than once that a few tools could be implemented in order for players to have a little more control over their chat and communications with the rest of their team. Yes, /mute all does exist, which I think is fantastic, as well as the option that we have to disable all chat in order to avoid any arrogance and bashing by opposing players who can't express that desired level of maturity either, but I truly believe it needs to be taken one step further. In that regard, I think players should be able to apply their own chat restriction, like allowing for five chats to start and one following added every three minutes OR having the ability to disable their communications at the beginning of the game so that if they ARE coaxed into frustration by a missed play or someone trolling them, they cannot actively switch off their SELF APPOINTED chat restriction to have a little fit because, that's the point. We don't want the fits or the tantrums, so give us the tools to police ourselves and I guarantee you there will be a marked improvement. /mute all is a chore that you have to go through every match, and if someone forgets and a player pops off just the right way, /mute all becomes irrelevant.

So, no, I don't just want my account back. I just want my opinion to be heard.

"Translation: "Its not relevant, because it doesn't work the way I would like it to work!" :D

And if you are not here to debate forum rules vs. ingame rules, why insist on accusing me of toxicity in my replys to you, when you know they are baseless?

You contradict your own statements more and more."

No I don't. I'm just showing everyone the added instances of toxicity that you display yourself. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. You being toxic is yet another fact that you cannot dispute because you're being outright unpleasant and using name calling as insulting filler when you have nothing else to add. Nothing that you say is constructive and is in fact an attempt at further trolling someone who's had their account banned. I know, I had my account banned, whoa is me. Sad day. Doesn't matter. I'm still trying to get a point across to people that care what I have to say and realize that the community could use a little adjustment as far as it's approach on the issue of toxicity. You're just a kid throwing rocks because you don't have anything to say that's worth listening to.

"Aimlessly and blindly? Hardly. My arguments had you on the defensive backfoot from the very first post, so I don't see whats "aimless" here.

Also, how is the ability to analyze and disassemble messages down to their underlying meaning an "inability"? ^^"

No, exactly, because you've done nothing to prove me wrong or diffuse my argument that the community could do better if a more effective system for handling toxicity were implemented. You're just sticking to skewing my statements and trying to demonize my meanings by horribly misinterpreting what I'm saying and throwing out weak little insults that you expect will get me to blow up on you eventually, but they won't. I'm just going to keep stuffing facts down your throat until you get sick of being wrong constantly like you have been since your original statement.

As long as you'd prefer to cling to your strategies of misdirection, slander, lies, kiddish insults and derailing of the overall point, I suppose I can't stop you, but it wasn't my idea for you to make yourself an example of** the problem** like you're choosing to do rather than partake in a discussion that could use valid input. Assuming you're capable of valid input, that is, which I am hopeful that you are.

"Why, because you say its a fact? Sorry to smash the Drumpfology illusion, bute that's not how the world works. If you are toxic, you get punished. That's what is happening, and that constitutes a working system."

Drumpfology isn't a word.
I'm well aware I was toxic, and my punishing was warranted, which I have agreed with since post one, making the entirety of your argument the most pointless waste of anyone's time I have ever seen.
Just because an account is banned for toxicity doesn't mean their system is working. It means that their system is tired and dolling out a permanent ban is their way of giving up when there are plenty of previously discussed ways that this could be handled in a different and more constructive way.

"Given that success of a videogame is measured in how many people are playing it, and DotA2 has less monthly unique players than league has DAILY unique players, you will fail in trying to convince people that DotAs ways of handling things are better.

They may benefit toxic people more, but the LoL community is nit interested in treating toxics nicely."

This isn't a debate on the measure of community between LoL and DotA2. This isn't a measure of either of their rates of success monthly or as long as they've existed. Their method IS better because it directly combats the issue rather than staving off a ban for a couple of months before all together banning an account. Instead of killing the account entirely, why would they not just indefinitely ban players from chat? It just makes more sense than outright telling a customer "We don't want your business."

On a brighter note, this is one of the only times that you've actually examined something I've said and taken it seriously by giving me your honest opinion without including all the misdirection and unimpressive name calling, so thanks for the change of pace.

"...without offering any proof as to why it is supposedly broken."

I don't have stats to offer you. Riot would never divulge their stats UNLESS they were having SUCCESS or unless they performed some open community attempt to combat toxicity like they did a couple of years back. We're flat out not gonna get that. I can tell you, however, that I played four games yesterday, and in every SINGLE game that was played, someone saying "Report this person" or "***** is such a B****!" or worse in all chat. Most of these occasions occurred on the side of the losing team, yes, because when overly competitive people lose they get confrontational and start throwing around blame which is where all of this usually ignites. There was even one game where both teams were arguing inwardly, although that was the game I hit /mute all and kept on playing because I didn't want to hear it from anyone.

Point is, out of four games I didn't manage to go into a game where at least ONE person out of the ten weren't being toxic. So yes... Yes I would say that their system is not and HAS not, since implementation, been working.

"...without any suggestions how to do that, not any measurement on a suggested increase in effetivity, nor any logical explanation offered why that would constitute a better system."

I have given, on more than one occasion, different opinions and suggestions on how we can combat this. You just haven't been doing much reading.

Alright, I have to admit... THIS ONE made me laugh until my nuts hurt.

My comment: "...as a community, to discipline and restrict ourselves which in the long run may be more proactive."

Your comment: "Its not the games duty to discipline you. If you cannot do that yourself, there is no place for you in this community."

Let me point a couple things out...

"as a community, to discipline and** restrict ourselves**"

And here's you again...

"Its not the games duty to discipline you"

...HOW? How could you POSSIBLY misinterpret what I JUST SAID right there. That last comment, in and OF itself, is exactly what I am talking about. You are either trying to be crafty and cunning by attempting to debunk and skew what I am saying with lacking facts and aimless accusations OR... you really just have no idea what you are talking about and, because you can't stand being proven wrong time and time again, you are running into an argument with no eyes and no ears with which you MIGHT have ANY perspective on the scenario being literally painted out in front of your face by way of the written word.

You have an incredible capacity for missing the point and just flat out not doing enough, or maybe even ANY research that you could use to actually construct a stable argument.

Have a nice day! ^_^

Frothy MushroomNov 29, 20161 votes

Actually, it took me a little less than a half hour. I'm a pretty quick typist, so please, don't overthink it. Your points aren't just incorrect, they were invalidated the very moment you decided to try and comprehend something that you simply couldn't because you keep choosing to be blind and not see the underlying message I've laid out for you in as many words as I can possibly offer. I've explained it to you a hundred different ways. I've offered you the examples you SAY I never offered, though they're here in the words you refuse to read and otherwise simply cannot comprehend, but that's fine. That's a fault all your own that you'll have to own in order to get past this.

Just know when to call it quits next time, because the less you throw at me the more I can tell you just don't have the ammunition to back up your point that you never had to begin with. I said it before and I'll say it again. I am a punished member of this community who is owning that fact and trying to do something with it. I seek to better myself and examine a system that doesn't work to benefit the community around us. You're just the same old troll stopping by to cast your astoundingly inaccurate and irrelevant judgement so you can make yourself feel better, but what you didn't count on was meeting a brick wall of logic you couldn't dent with that toothpick of an argument you brought to the table.

Your insults, slights, misleading comments and attempts to make me out to look the villain in this whole debate(which it was really more of a verbal embarrassment of you) were an utter failure. People like YOU are the real problem. People who are out to tear something down before they even realize that it is meant to be both positive and encouraging to the community, are what's WRONG with the community to begin with.

For example, this guy I know named Martensitic who I thrashed in a debate once upon a time. At least I can say I enjoyed it, though. Much appreciate the attempt, bud.

Have a nice day! ^_^

TormentulaNov 26, 20165 votes

You fuck up then you get fucked.

Its not hard for players to avoid being toxic and keep your accounts.

You can plee to riot support if you think there has been an error (sometimes they randomly ban if they think your account is bought when its not).

However if you got permabanned for being toxic, after being warned at least once, sorry but that's just brought upon yourself, no one is going to unlock your account if you've proven after the warning you won't change.

disregardableNov 26, 20165 votes

If being -less- toxic to you still means being toxic to everyone else, your reforms aren't good enough. You need to keep negativity out of chat. If you can't, then your account eventually gets banned.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

Understood and agreed with. Still not answering my question as to why there's not a way to reform and gain a little grace back from the company. It's just -axe the account- and that's that.

Doesn't offer much leeway for the player, and if I may be so bold as to say, when that same player acquires another account they're going to be less likely to be reasonable and understanding as individuals. Some would comply, I suppose, although I have to think that some would become even further abusive.

disregardableNov 26, 20163 votes

It's an escalating punishment system. People that don't reform from chat restrictions need extra disincentive to reform, otherwise they just won't. Taking away your account is literally the worst thing Riot can do to you, so that's what they threaten the worst offending players with. If people want to keep their account, they have to reform. If they didn't lose their accounts permanently, the punishment wouldn't be as effective of a deterrence.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

It's not a deterrence at that point, it's finalization.

Why not allow me to disable my chat box? Would that not be a way that I, the player, could be proactive in reform by doing this of my own accord because I genuinely would rather not have to see that someone else has popped off or insulted me in the attempt to get a reaction? Sure you can mute people, but what if you don't want to see it in the first place?

Riot isn't enabling it's players to do anything proactive besides to see that they have been chat banned. Three times and your out, yet you still have to put up with everyone ELSE in chat, right? Makes sense...

disregardableNov 26, 20162 votes

You can /mute all at the start of the game.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

Right, heard that after making this post more than a half hour ago. There should be better features than that, though, because that information obviously isn't privy to everyone and it's certainly not made obvious in some sort of tools section or guide manual. At least not any one that I've seen.

disregardableNov 26, 20163 votes

Sorry, was playing my first game in weeks. It was okay. If you decide to continue on another account, I hope you really try to cut out the negativity this time. It can be hard at first, but in the long run it makes the game less miserable.

xCupidNov 26, 20162 votes

You're insane, which means you keep repeating things and expect different results; like reforming or whatever. What you're struggling with is toxicity to this community and you need to be removed from us. Riot is not mean or unfair, they gave you many warnings. They banned you many times yet you still continued your behavior. Whats next : If you are caught using another account, they will delete that too.

We all as humans make mistakes and thats why sometimes in life, we get second chances. In this case, you blew it. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

(Edit: I think Riot will only ban other accounts if you are indefinitely banned i.e: Tyler1)

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

I don't think being toxic within a community that promotes both toxicity and pressing people's buttons until they explode as well as a host of other trollish methods qualifies me as "insane". In fact, I think that's a harsh and biased judgement coming from a community member who didn't even bother to read any of the thread and wishes to be seen as a community hero who, just like a few others, has missed the point entirely. I never said Riot was mean, though I did question their methods which seem to be unsuccessful to me because Toxic behavior is flagrant in every game that I still play. I'm just asking for a better way to handle toxic behavior and, for those willing to be constructive, am looking for suggestions and positive feedback.

Also, if they haven't IP banned me, then they're not going to ban my other accounts, and I don't know why they would. They don't know if the other accounts that I play on actually belong to a friend or is a separate account that I have worked on for years, and if they do then they can practice their right to ban that account or any other for a different reason. I believe they'd prefer to keep me, a paying customer, around, though, as long as I get the picture with my one account being banned the way that it has been. If they wanted people who's accounts they banned to really cease being a paying piece of their community, they'd go a step further. This is just a way of trying to get the picture across without fully removing someone from their game.

xCupidNov 26, 20161 votes

I don't think being toxic within a community that promotes both toxicity and pressing people's buttons until they explode as well as a host of other trollish methods qualifies me as "insane"

You question if I ever read the thread yet you can't even understand my 1st sentence. Insane because you want to stop but you're toxic with the toxic people, expecting what? Getting where? You didn't even understand what I'm trying to help you with...it's you: making you realize what you've done to get where you are. This community is only toxic if you let it be toxic. You shouldn't of added to their fire...What you should of done was remove all communications with them. Muting is a good way but I'm sure you already knew that? [zombie-nunu-bummed]

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

Your argument was invalidated the moment you instantly accused me of being insane, and now you're trying to sugar coat what you said by saying that, in some way, calling me "insane" was in fact constructive when that is an utter misrepresentation of the truth. You aren't even considering the fact that, all throughout this thread I have been saying that "I fully understand and agree with my banning. I just want to find a way to gain back favor and perhaps develop a more effective method in the effort of combating toxicity."

First of all, I don't see anything wrong with that statement, which like I've already said I have made more than once. Secondly, I don't think that anything you've said helps to qualify me as "insane" and in fact simply dulls whatever point it is that you are trying to make. Your input is tactless and broken, but I appreciate the effort. It's just not helping prove your point at all.

xCupidNov 26, 20161 votes

Misrepresentation? You have issues with understand the truth and understanding in general. And you're taking the word insane way too the heart. See now, and everyone, can see how easy it is to push your buttons. Now let me try this again. So maybe you can understand,_ again_.

I just want to find a way to gain back favor and perhaps develop a more effective method in the effort of combating toxicity."

My answer was?"...it's you: making you realize what you've done to get where you are. This community is only toxic if you let it be toxic. You shouldn't of added to their fire...What you should of done was remove all communications with them. Muting is a good way but I'm sure you already knew that?"

Stop being so defensive when someone is trying to help you yet critique you at the same time. It's called constructive criticism.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

Isn't that part of the point? You don't have any right to call someone "insane" who isn't composing themselves in such a way. In fact, it was the very first thing you said to begin a stream of tactless arguing that only confirms you have no point to make at all. You're just going for some kind of attention grab or trying to appear to be some kind of Community justice warrior when you really shouldn't be trying. There's no reason for it, especially in this form, which was the purpose of this to begin with. I don't want to be told that I'm "insane" or foolish or acting ridiculous because that's the exact opposite of what I'm trying to be. I'm trying to be reasonable. I'm composing myself in a perfectly acceptable way and I'm asking questions that I would like the answers to. You are not giving me these answers and you are certainly not being constructive with the way that you are presenting your argument, whatever that argument may be. Your first language also does not appear to be English, which is perfectly fine, but it's hot helping you to sound like you have any idea what you're talking about and that's just a personal observation. That, or maybe you just don't care about being clear and concise with your vocabulary, but it's not helping your points to appear more valid by being sloppy.

Also, calling someone "insane" and delving into an argument with nothing but negatively is precisely NOT constructive criticism, so on that note you're just flat out wrong based on definition.

-"You're** insane**, which means you keep repeating things and expect different results; like reforming or whatever. What you're struggling with is toxicity to this community and you need to be removed from us. Riot is not mean or unfair, they gave you many warnings. They banned you many times yet you still continued your behavior."

The above quite is not constructive criticism. It is a poorly constructed insult and attempt at I suppose making me feel bad by trying to explain to me something that I already know, which is WHY I was banned. I've already said more than once I know why I was banned, and I don't have much hope that this will be reversed, but at least I'm choosing to try and adjust my attitude by taking real constructive criticism from players that are better at presenting their point of view than you are. "Riot is not mean or unfair" - I also never said that they were mean or unfair to me. I fully understood why the ban was given and am seeking a better method to get the point across. If you don't agree that there should be a better method, that's fine, that's your opinion, with which I disagree and have every right to openly disagree.

-"I just want to find a way to gain back favor and perhaps develop a more effective method in the effort of combating toxicity."

I wouldn't have ever made a statement like this one if I needed you to explain to me why I was banned. You're focusing on the former, which is the fact that I was banned and the fact that I fully understand WHY I was banned. This means that I do not need your spin on WHY I was banned because I already know why. I'm just suggesting that there are better methods to adopt to handle this kind of thing, which there clearly are, and am hoping for a way to be developed that players can begin to turn a page and gain back a little favor with Riot. Is that too much to ask? Perhaps it is, I don't know, but there's no reason not to ask. There's no reason not to pose these questions and gauge people's responses in order to create a positive outcome to this experience that I am having, which I will continue to do because I am a tenacious person. It's who I am.

I appreciate debates like these where I can actually take something constructive from the discussion being had, and if I can do that here, I will.

Thank you,

TyrekGoldenspearNov 26, 20162 votes

Just jumping in here,

He was calling you insane because of a quote:

"The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein.

Now how it relates to the issue at hand.

He is saying that you were banned for a reason. After your first punishment you kept on doing the same things which got you your second and then your third, then finally your perma.

He was abrasive in his comments, but I just wanted to let you know that the insanity he is speaking of isn't the literal psychosis, it's because you did what the quote said basically.

Jumping out.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

xKatarina - "You're insane, which means you keep repeating things and expect different results"

Definition of 'Insane' - "In a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill."

I'm well aware of the quote from which this person pulled this little nugget of wisdom, but Einstein's quote is not the definition of "Insanity". Just because a smart person says something, doesn't make it true and it doesn't make it false either, and it certainly doesn't mean you should try to use it to appear smart when in reality it's only going to further hurt your attempt at a valid argument because you don't actually know the definition of the word you're trying to use really is. I chose to discredit this person's point because they didn't have one to begin with. I have already, on more than one occasion, divulged that I am well aware of why I was banned and fully accept the consequences that have come coupled with my actions. I'm not begging for mercy and I certainly won't bend my knee to try and appear like I've had some miraculous breakthrough as far as my attitude is concerned. Riot wouldn't believe that and I'm not about to act like all the others who beg and whine on the forums in an effort to get their accounts back.

I am simply suggesting that there are better ways to handle situations like these as far as permanent punishment is concerned and am also asking for a venue in which I can earn back favor. That's it all...

But time and time again someone pops up and tries to explain to me why I was banned, but for what? Use your eyes, people, and I'm not saying that you, specifically, haven't.

Do a little reading. Perhaps it could be enlightening to know what the conversation is actually about.

TyrekGoldenspearNov 26, 20163 votes

I read all of it though.

I only wanted to make sure you understood what they meant by insanity.

I am fully aware you got the message of your ban and want to make the punishment process less steep a slope and give players a chance to self discipline.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

Thank you, I appreciate you reading and I appreciate your input. We're on the same page as far as what this member meant. I just wanted to make sure you realized that what he was trying to say didn't go over my head, it was just really a not very well thought out comment by that person which I took the opportunity to dissect.

thanks,

TyrekGoldenspearNov 26, 20162 votes

Eh, no problem. I should have added that I knew the point of your OP.

Frothy MushroomNov 26, 20161 votes

Maybe, but with a little healthy and constructive conversation we're able to figure that out pretty quickly.

If only the rest of the community was as level headed and understanding, right?

TyrekGoldenspearNov 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frothy Mushroom,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Jwq8gjgc,comment-id=000d00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-26T23:47:44.047+0000)

Maybe, but with a little healthy and constructive conversation we're able to figure that out pretty quickly.

If only the rest of the community was as level headed and understanding, right?

I suppose. But it's not all their fault.

This is a combination of two major things.

The "Oh god, another banned guy whining about his ban! I'll just downvote him and move on, maybe he'll shut up!" kind of person is quite common here, even if they weren't like that at first. You know, because this board is filled with those kind of permaban pleas, and people just plain got sick of them, not to mention many of them lie about their innocence. You already pointed out that you know about this, so yeah.
Time. Few people have the time to sit and read a lenthy post. Maybe they are perusing the boards while they are in queue, or on lunch break, or whatever. That's why they skim, and from skimming you seem like you are arguing against the system. (Which you technically are, but people forget that you said at the end that you think the ban was fair)

But there's a combination of factors, I wouldn't say the boards as a whole are toxic trolls. But remember the people who browse this specific board a lot, people who are tired of posts that look similar to yours but are for a different purpose.

xCupidNov 27, 20161 votes

Now, Well level-headed people make this community great, yes?! GG WP means something, correct? If you're asking for support from the community well I'm one of them, and I'm content with Riots decision.

I'm not trying to be mean but hey Karma 's a b. [slayer-jinx-catface]

_AND THATS ALL SHE WROTE. _

Frothy MushroomNov 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Now, Well level-headed people make this community great, yes?! GG WP means something, correct? If you're asking for support from the community well I'm one of them, and I'm content with Riots decision.

I'm not trying to be mean but hey 's a b. [slayer-jinx-catface]

And as I've said already, this thread isn't about the decision that Riot made. I deserved the ban and have already admitted that. Sigh... it's really hard to explain things to you when you're entirely uninterested in listening to anyone else. It's almost like you're trolling, but I'm not sure. Maybe you're just not understanding what I'm saying.

Frothy MushroomNov 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I suppose they could try, but I doubt there would be a system that would work. After all, I'm sure we both know there are people that will pretend to have reformed just to get back under the radar and then keep on trolling with no net results.

I don't know, people should be responsible for their own actions, and saying they have no control is kinda taking responsibility away from them.

You understand and have taken responsibility, so when you make a new account you will be better, this is how the system is meant to work.

If we did it another way toxic people would only reform just barely enough to skim over getting their account banned because they truly have no interest in reform and have no motivation to reform if they can never lose their account no matter what they do.

See what I'm saying?

Absolutely. I'm level headed enough to see your side of the argument and I'm inclined to agree, some people are going to only reform enough to get what they want and then it's back to the same old same old. Still, though, it's hard to argue that if players could be allowed a little more control over their client in order to adjust their chat allowances or disable it entirely that things wouldn't also get a lot better.

Also, why not dish out permabans in chat or even ranked permabans instead of fully and totally axing an account? I just don't get why, if there's a player that displays difficult behavior IN CHAT that you wouldn't handle that issue by applying a ban for that realm of the game. Doesn't that make more sense?

Someone loses it too often in chat? Permachat ban.

Someone trolls/feeds/griefs their team in ranked? Permaranked ban.

To me this just makes more sense, but don't think of this as a way of me telling you you're wrong or anything. I totally get what you're saying. The point of this thread, though, is that I genuinely believe that there are better ways to handle these issues and instead of addressing the issues in a more proactive fashion Riot is sticking to this three strike system before dishing out and end all, be all, permanent ban that is entirely impossible to come back from.

The method hasn't been working to improve Toxicity and it won't. That much is clear. Not that it's too harsh for some repeat offenders like me(which I actually think it kind of is, but that's another argument). It's just not working and hasn't been working since implementation. It's just focusing on the wrong parameter of the game. If you're having issues with players trolling and griefing, ban them accordingly. If you're having issues with players ranting and being negative in chat, ban them accordingly. Take away their chat privileges indefinitely and they don't have a venue in which to explode on other players, plus you'd have a lot less of these "Please unban my account, this isn't fair" threads floating around that no one cares about.