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Riot needs to not be so strict on player bans.

Gnar Gooba··1 votes·1,279 views

Riot needs to not be so strict on player bans. Recently I was permanently banned from league of legends 2 days after my 2 week ban. I was given a 2 week ban with no warnings after I said "kys" 2 times. That means no chat bans. 2 days after 2 weeks of agony, I met the most toxic player i've seen in my life. He was a person who gave me a headstart and lane, cried after he lost, and instulted my team, his team, and Riot for their mistakes. I had to fight back, even if in the back of my mind I knew this could lead to my perma ban. Which it did. He was given a 2 week ban while I got a perma ban. I apologized after the game even after multiple death threats from him. Before I could say my final sorries I saw a message saying i was permanently banned. I was in shock that the system did that so fast. I think the System should not be up to saying whether or not a player gets permanently banned. The 2 week ban was barely a worthy suspension for what I did and this perma ban I feel even stronger about.

So how can Riot fix this? Players getting banned with almost no warning is not helping at all. My mindset makes me straighten up after a warning or 2 but i got almost none. Riot needs more layers until you get perma banned,

Tier 1: 10 day Chat ban.

Tier 2: 25 day Chat ban.

No skipping past Tier 1 and 2 like the current systems does.

Tier 3: 3-10 day ban. (Depends on severity of report)

Tier 4: 14-31 day ban. (Depends on severity of report)

Tier 5: 2 month ban or just straight to a perma ban. (Depends on severity of report)

That adds up to a lot of time so I think it would be very helpful for people like me who take multiple warnings to straighten up. I make this post for other people who havent been perma banned, but might make a double blunder and whoop there goes their account. Now lets speak fairly hypothetical, If this system I proposed earlier would go through, the players who were given no warning should have another chance, like me. Maybe switch permabans to tier 3-5 bans? Or just lift it entirely? Something. Riot should realise how much time people put into their game and the players who play it should be respected, especially with its player count going down every day like theyve noticed.

Anyone want to help me with this? I'm definetly not qualified for this so some more community help would be great :)

Thank you, StaticZadik. item 3748

EDIT: THANK YOU GUNNY FOR LIFTING MY PERMABAN!!!!!!!

28 Comments

ModThe Djinn7 votes

From Riot Tantram:

We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely.

We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it.

We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling.

The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS.

So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat?

They have similar data they've talked about showing that offering more chances does not result in an increase in player reform.

In your case it is unfortunate, if you normally take two warnings, that your first offense was a zero-tolerance offense. That said, it seems from the comment below that you knew the situation and the risks well, at which point I don't believe we can blame Riot's system.

I had to fight back, even if in the back of my mind I knew this could lead to my perma ban.

While it may sound harsh, Riot is not in the business of reforming players, but rather offers players the opportunity to reform as a second (or third, or fourth) chance to prove they can belong in the community.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Yes, I see. Im just whining then. But im still not very happy about how obscure the zero tolerance words are, especially with the huge impact they bring to people. You might use these terms without realising what they are, like I did.

ModThe Djinn5 votes

{quoted}

Yes, I see. Im just whining then. But im still not very happy about how obscure the zero tolerance words are, especially with the huge impact they bring to people. You might use these terms without realising what they are, like I did.

Out of legitimate curiosity -- when you told a player to kill themselves prior to your 14-day ban, did you do so under the assumption that it would be okay to request that someone else actually end their own life? If not, why did you choose those specific words?

I ask because the zero tolerance words are really only hate speech and encouragements to self-harm, both of which seem (to me) very obvious lines in the sand.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Well first I'll give you context. Me and my friend were going in duo queue and he wanted to go Rakan mid, but the support said hes support and banned him. He said "wow really? kys" and I followed up with saying "kys" aswell. It was a time before i realised how bad an acronym could be, even if i knew what it actually meant. It was me just thinking that saying the acronym over the real word wouldnt have the same impact or meaning, even if it does.

ModThe Djinn4 votes

{quoted}It was me just thinking that saying the acronym over the real word wouldnt have the same impact or meaning, even if it does.

While I can sympathize with the situation you're in, I'm afraid I don't think this is a good rationale for finding the existing warnings insufficient. If you know what the phrase means and you knowingly use an acronym that means the same thing thinking it somehow might be less severe, that seems like an error in judgment on your part, and not a flaw on the system's side.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Yes i know that now. Im just so scared to tell my parents why im not playing the game that ive spent 450+ dollars on and I am dealing with that in a weird way. Sorry for that.

ModThe Djinn4 votes

{quoted}Yes i know that now. Im just so scared to tell my parents why im not playing the game that ive spent 450+ dollars on and I am dealing with that in a weird way. Sorry for that.

No need to apologize to me! I'm just here to provide insight, advice, and input where requested/appropriate. We all handle things in our own way, and I know getting banned isn't a fun experience at all.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Can you tell me if there will be any way for perma banned acounts to be unbanned In the future?

ModThe Djinn4 votes

{quoted}

Can you tell me if there will be any way for perma banned acounts to be unbanned In the future?

As their previous attempted experiment at unbanning accounts proved that the reform rate is unacceptably low, Riot has stated that they are no longer looking into any way to recover a permanently banned account.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Wasn't that a long time ago though? I feel like another shot would be worth it... im getting desperate again.

ModPrandine1 votes

{quoted}

Wasn't that a long time ago though? I feel like another shot would be worth it... im getting desperate again.

It was, but think of it this way, if you keep giving people chance after chance after chance then when are you gonna decide that enough is enough? The line has to be drawn somewhere. From the Tribunal FAQ:

**Why can’t you give permanent banned players a second chance? You will receive a better player. ** Actually, this is the unfortunate problem. Allowing permanently banned players another chance is an extremely damaging cost. Do you know what the success rate of the Level 20 Challenge was? 5%. Do you know that for each person, they clearly outlined the toxic behaviors and had 1 on 1 conversations with the players to try to improve their behavior? These are players that were hand-picked by Player Support staff because they felt the pleas from these players were genuine. The success rate was still 5%.

Do you know how many games on average these players played? 100 games / month. When a permanently banned player fails to reform, they are creating miserable experiences for hundreds, maybe thousands of players a month. That's not a cheap cost or a low risk and we cannot consciously justify that, for the sake of the rest of our players.

These days players have at least 3 chances to reform (1 if given a 14-day ban for a zero-tolerance policy violation) before being permabanned, with the possibility of more if a player is able to improve their behavior before reaching that point. If that's not enough then Riot doesn't want you playing anymore. That said, Riot can't stop people from making new accounts, so if you truly want to prove you're reformed then do so on your other account.

Oh, and before you or someone else tries to bring the money argument into this, to quote Kei143:

When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client.

From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment.

I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}Wasn't that a long time ago though? I feel like another shot would be worth it... im getting desperate again.

Bluntly, there is no reason to believe that the behavior of toxic players on a global scale has meaningfully changed, and I'm sure that if Riot say data to suggest that reformation were suddenly 200% more effective, or that smurf accounts of banned players (which they can detect) showed drastic decreases in toxicity, they would have already tried such an experiment again.

Splitgrips2 votes

Left over policies from Riot Lyte.

Was hoping they would trash the bans and just perma mute people. seems stupid to delete accounts due to peoples mental problems. Wish they where more strict on the boosters and scripters. i hear they get a kick back for those things though so.. who knows.

redniwediS9 votes

They tried perma-mutes in the past. It decreased chat toxicity (obviously) but had a direct, causal relationship with the increase in trolling, AFKs, and intentional feeding that took place. It definitely wasn't a worth while trade off.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

The 14 days suspension was your warning.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

As I said, it wasnt enough for me. Once i got back onto my account, I was starting up my habit of muting people, but that guy was so toxic and he came before i was fully into the habit of muting. So thats why i mention luck.

Sirrkas2 votes

Sounds like you really should think, **before **you type. Now it is to late for your account. And seriously, you earned your permaban, if you think, you just should get a Cr for "kys".

Now lets speak fairly hypothetical, If this system I proposed earlier would go through, the players who were given no warning should have another chance, like me.

You had your chance, but you ignored your 2 weekban.

Riot should realise how much time people put into their game and the players who play it should be respected,

Or maybe, the flamers should think about other players should be treated with respect.

Black Jesus1 votes

Riot has a "Zero tolerance policy" for homophobia, racial slurs, death threats/ wishes, xenophobia, etc.

If Riot actually chose to fully enforce this, a single "kys" would get you permanently banned.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Yes I know about the zero tolerance policy, and its really bad, a lot of people use those terms without realising how bad it is in riots eyes, and then they are already at a 2 week ban. That for me was not enough time to straighten up, and with the worst luck possible, I got a perma ban. In my post I put "No skipping past Tier 1 and 2 like the current systems does." meaning saying those zero tolerance policy words would just make people get the next tier of bans they were at. Not a straight up 2 week ban with no warning. Thats what my problem is with riots current system, the lack of warnings they give you.

redniwediS3 votes

The problem isn't with the policy, it's with Riot's method of informing people about the policy. Most people can censor themselves enough to avoid a chat scanning bot, but only if they realize it is there.

Considering the number of people who post in Player Behavior with no idea how the system works this is a failing on Riot's part.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Yes i suppose so... I didn't know about the zero tolerance policy until after my 2 week ban.Still though, the permaban for me came up so fast, i almost had no time to react to it. Atleast not skipping the chat bans would be a great change.

redniwediS2 votes

Having a fast track for things Riot views as completely unacceptable and unwelcome behavior is going to be a necessity. Still, I'll concede that so long as Riot's policy is so hard to learn about maybe there should be a bit of leniency.

Let's meet in the middle and, at least until Riot makes things easier to learn about, have a zero tolerance punishment skip the 10 day chat ban only.

P4ppino1 votes

You actually didn't have to fight back. Have you muted him, and reported him after the game, you'd still have your account.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Everyone was fighting back to him, everyone except his duo queue partner who was telling everyone to shut up. I did mute him half way through the game until post game where he made death threats and personal threats. I even said sorry after it was all over. The system doesnt care about sorries though.

Snowman Arc1 votes

You got a deserved 2 week ban for saying "kys". 10/10 deserved, would ban again. Then, you entered a state of toxicity again, even after your final warning. Again, 10/10 deserved, would ban again. Nothing to see here.

Gnar Gooba1 votes

Riot doesnt make the zero tolerance words clear to anyone, so I said those terms without understanding how much it meant to riot. It was after my 2 week ban i learnt all the zero tolerance words. In the game i got perma banned in I didnt say a single one, but the system was so quick to ban me.

Snowman Arc2 votes

You should be able to identify certain things on your own. There is no situation where KYS can be taken lightly. After that, you knew that you were on a very tight rope and ANY ACT of toxicity, regardless of the situation, would lead to a permanent ban. If you don't get the hint the first, time, well, you will get it the second one.

HommeGoujon1 votes

how many warnings do you need before you understand that your behavior in-game should change? Tier 5 2 month ban or perma but if you get only 2 months, what about the next tier? perma ban and you're fined?

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