Banned? I didn't say anything toxic?!?!

Lord of Woe · 2017-12-03T20:15:56.871Z

So I just got permanently banned for this game. We had 2 players on our team that were being extremely toxic! I found it kind of funny, but I muted them and I guess the toxic thing I said was to report? I didn't troll in this game, I didn't have the best game. I had a lot of fun in this match and I'm confused as to why I received a permanent ban. Can I have some help here? Game 1 Lord of Woe: ty Lord of Woe: can we fight?> Lord of Woe: trist too low to stay Lord of Woe: hope it helps Lord of Woe: sorry. Lord of Woe: lol Lord of Woe: ill come again soon enough Lord of Woe: gonna help other lanes Lord of Woe: gromp then top Lord of Woe: actually fk that Lord of Woe: im coming now Lord of Woe: GJ Lord of Woe: aiowhebfuiagweioufgvawef Lord of Woe: coming bot with ult at 6 Lord of Woe: want to dive? Lord of Woe: gj Lord of Woe: sry sona Lord of Woe: run sona! xD Lord of Woe: lol np Lord of Woe: sry about that .-. Lord of Woe: zed no ult Lord of Woe: ani come Lord of Woe: sigh Lord of Woe: she had leap? Lord of Woe: stop trying to tell others how to play Lord of Woe: you died didn't you? Lord of Woe: you were assisted from sona and i Lord of Woe: on all your kills Lord of Woe: l0l Lord of Woe: 3 are top Lord of Woe: why wouldn't I? Lord of Woe: no? Lord of Woe: sorry was busy shutting down your laner Lord of Woe: yeah you're right Lord of Woe: LOL Lord of Woe: yeah Lord of Woe: ^_^ Lord of Woe: i muted her Lord of Woe: it's okay Lord of Woe: mf should start trying to ult more than 1 person at a time Lord of Woe: hmm Lord of Woe: trist 100 hp Lord of Woe: trist Lord of Woe: qauowbefiyuawfg7ioefguvaw3ef Lord of Woe: sigh Lord of Woe: teemo can you stop? Lord of Woe: why would you get caught? Lord of Woe: just report. Lord of Woe: mf weak Lord of Woe: Hi Lord of Woe: nice stop Lord of Woe: gj Lord of Woe: gg

LeylaniaDec 4, 20176 votes

Tantrum, our hero and saviour as always <3

Abraxus followerDec 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Tantrum, our hero and saviour as always <3

Xd man love tantrum

LiranMLGDec 4, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HYNXaLEm,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-12-04T17:53:42.596+0000)

Please, stop editing chat logs. It does no good to post that you are confused about your ban, looking for insight, when you clearly knew the chat contained inappropriate things so you removed them.

[1:36] Lord of Woe (Rengar): ty [3:31] Lord of Woe (Rengar): can we fight?> [3:59] Lord of Woe (Rengar): trist too low to stay [4:01] Lord of Woe (Rengar): hope it helps [4:04] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sorry. [4:13] Lord of Woe (Rengar): lol [4:35] Lord of Woe (Rengar): ill come again soon enough [4:39] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gonna help other lanes [6:13] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gromp then top [6:17] Lord of Woe (Rengar): actually fk that [6:19] Lord of Woe (Rengar): im coming now [7:12] Lord of Woe (Rengar): GJ [7:13] Lord of Woe (Rengar): aiowhebfuiagweioufgvawef [7:29] Lord of Woe (Rengar): coming bot with ult at 6 [8:35] Lord of Woe (Rengar): want to dive? [8:48] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gj [8:50] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sry sona [9:52] Lord of Woe (Rengar): run sona! xD [9:56] Lord of Woe (Rengar): lol np [10:08] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sry about that .-. [10:15] Lord of Woe (Rengar): zed no ult [13:05] Lord of Woe (Rengar): ani come [13:30] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sigh [13:41] Lord of Woe (Rengar): she had leap? [13:44] Lord of Woe (Rengar): the fk you mean [13:48] Lord of Woe (Rengar): stop trying to tell others how to play [13:51] Lord of Woe (Rengar): you died didn't you? [14:36] Lord of Woe (Rengar): you were assisted from sona and i [14:38] Lord of Woe (Rengar): on all your kills [15:17] Lord of Woe (Rengar): l0l [15:18] Lord of Woe (Rengar): You're bad [15:19] Lord of Woe (Rengar): stfu [16:30] Lord of Woe (Rengar): 3 are top [16:32] Lord of Woe (Rengar): why wouldn't I? [16:35] Lord of Woe (Rengar): no? [17:54] Lord of Woe (Rengar): LOOLOLOL [17:59] Lord of Woe (Rengar): wasted ult and flash [18:03] Lord of Woe (Rengar): cause bad positioningh [18:25] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sorry was busy shutting down your laner for you [18:43] Lord of Woe (Rengar): You started talking trash first?.. [19:19] Lord of Woe (Rengar): yeah you're right [19:50] Lord of Woe (Rengar): LOL [20:05] Lord of Woe (Rengar): yeah [20:07] Lord of Woe (Rengar): talk more [20:14] Lord of Woe (Rengar): enjoy the ban [20:15] Lord of Woe (Rengar): ^_^ [20:19] Lord of Woe (Rengar): i muted her [20:20] Lord of Woe (Rengar): it's okay [25:04] Lord of Woe (Rengar): mf should start trying to ult more than 1 person at a time [27:18] Lord of Woe (Rengar): hmm [27:22] Lord of Woe (Rengar): trist 100 hp [28:34] Lord of Woe (Rengar): trist [28:35] Lord of Woe (Rengar): qauowbefiyuawfg7ioefguvaw3ef [28:37] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sigh [28:57] Lord of Woe (Rengar): teemo can you stop? [29:07] Lord of Woe (Rengar): why would you get caught? [29:11] Lord of Woe (Rengar): enjoy report. [31:45] Lord of Woe (Rengar): mf weak [35:57] [All] Lord of Woe (Rengar): Hi [37:05] Lord of Woe (Rengar): nice stop [37:14] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gj [38:19] [All] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gg [38:22] [All] Lord of Woe (Rengar): report mf

In addition to your 2 chat restrictions, you got a 14-day ban less than a month ago. During that time you were told that the next penalty would be a perma-ban. Well, here we are.

Tantrum Showing people here who's boss!

Pierce The VealDec 4, 20172 votes

A few years back this would have been forgiven in the tribunal.

ChermorgDec 4, 201712 votes

As someone who participated in tribunal, no, this would not have.

This chat log is constant harassment of a teammate - from getting angry at them for providing advice, to getting mad at them for bad plays, to calling for reports on them, continual harassment of the MF for having some bad plays.

ŻügżwängDec 4, 20174 votes

I have to agree with DracoMTA ... I've seen worse things than these get acquitted in Tribunal.

He called his teammate bad.
He asked for a ban (the other party was clearly flaming as well)
He continued a meaningless conversation with said toxic party.

This certainly deserves a punishment, but not a permanent ban ... even if he edited his chat logs, there was nothing egregious in the ones posted by RiotTantrum.

Riot even has a tooltip: "Things can get heated, but racism has no place in league". Something like that. Well things are certainly heated, but he didn't cross any significant lines. He called a player bad? Riot also made a video saying we are all bad at some point... so why is that acceptable?

Like I said, he clearly talked too much, and slapping a 10,20,50 game chat restriction on him could do the trick, but to remove him PERMANENTLY for this? I don't agree. I'm not sure what his previous behaviour was that led to earlier punishments, but this is relatively tame. Remember, we're talking about a permanent ban. And the punishment certainly does not fit the crime. Just my two cents. I don't care if people patrolling this message board will downvote, I know a lot of people agree with me.

RiotRiot TantramDec 5, 20175 votes

Like I said, he clearly talked too much, and slapping a 10,20,50 game chat restriction on him could do the trick, but to remove him PERMANENTLY for this? I don't agree.

.

In addition to your 2 chat restrictions, you got a 14-day ban less than a month ago. During that time you were told that the next penalty would be a perma-ban. Well, here we are.

It would have likely only been a chat restriction .. but the penalties escalate.

ŻügżwängDec 5, 20172 votes

@Riot Tantram (oops, called you Tantrum before)

Have you guys discussed updating your policies on player behaviour? In heroes of the storm, they shut off your chat completely, forcing you to play with only with pings (and remove you from ranked until you serve out your sentence). Subsequent infractions result in them DOUBLING the penalty (starting 1 day, and growing exponentially).

If someone has serious things, like hate speech, then yes, perma bans are justified. But if someone gets fired up, why not just slap heavier and heavier chat restrictions on their account. Shut their chat off for a year if they repeat too often. But give people a chance to change when they have repeated minor-moderate infractions.

Trolling games/throwing/feeding/afking, etc these things ruin games, and the only punishment is removing players from the game. Flaming ALSO ruins games for people in a different way, but it seems like this could be punished in a better way than permanent bans (especially in the case where someone like this is just saying "you're bad" -- he was participating toxic chat, true, but a 1,2,3,4 you're out policy for this seems extreme).

Kei143Dec 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

@Riot Tantram (oops, called you Tantrum before)

Have you guys discussed updating your policies on player behaviour? In heroes of the storm, they shut off your chat completely, forcing you to play with only with pings (and remove you from ranked until you serve out your sentence). Subsequent infractions result in them DOUBLING the penalty (starting 1 day, and growing exponentially).

They've tried both of these things. The toxics got fustrated, so they ended up trolling via gameplay and inting.

It also made it miserable for the people playing in norms.

ŻügżwängDec 5, 20171 votes

I understand that, but then they should receive a permanent ban after they resort to trolling. Pre-emptively banning people like this prevents the ones who would take the longer restrictions to heart and improve.

In heroes of the storm I've played with many "muted" players, and many times they'd carry and play the most focused. Even for myself when I received my 2 day chat ban, during those games I had some of the best games, by not typing anything and only pinging, I played a lot more efficiently and stopped flaming after that.

ModPrandineDec 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I understand that, but then they should receive a permanent ban after they resort to trolling. Pre-emptively banning people like this prevents the ones who would take the longer restrictions to heart and improve.

In heroes of the storm I've played with many "muted" players, and many times they'd carry and play the most focused. Even for myself when I received my 2 day chat ban, during those games I had some of the best games, by not typing anything and only pinging, I played a lot more efficiently and stopped flaming after that.

It's good that it worked for you but unfortunately not everyone is like that. Riot Tantram posted about this 2 months ago:

It really breaks down into two categories.

1.) Helping players reform 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost.

We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely.

We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it.

We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling.

The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS.

So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat?

ŻügżwängDec 5, 20171 votes

Yes, I would because I believe in proper justice and not making presumptions that someone will be guilty before they are. So if someone receives a 2week/2month/2year chat ban, and proceed to be toxic in game, then they should receive the appropriate reports then, and THEN have their accounts dealt with accordingly.

While this more draconian system is quick to lock 'em up and throw away the key, removing many toxic players quickly, it also removes people with milder infractions who do have the opportunity to reform.

If someone is a jackass in chat, remove their chat privileges. Once they start ruining the game itself, then they should be banned.

ModPrandineDec 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yes, I would because I believe in proper justice and not making presumptions that someone will be guilty before they are. So if someone receives a 2week/2month/2year chat ban, and proceed to be toxic in game, then they should receive the appropriate reports then, and THEN have their accounts dealt with accordingly.

While this more draconian system is quick to lock 'em up and throw away the key, removing many toxic players quickly, it also removes people with milder infractions who do have the opportunity to reform.

If someone is a jackass in chat, remove their chat privileges. Once they start ruining the game itself, then they should be banned.

That's exactly what Riot tried with infinite chat restrictions and is why the IFS system exists today. Riot and the community as a whole would rather not have someone who's just gonna switch to gameplay trolling when their chat is removed (which did happen) and besides under normal circumstance people are given at least 3 chances to reform before being permabanned (the two chat restrictions+a 2 week ban as well). If that's still not enough of a hint that poor behavior is not tolerated here then why should they be allowed to keep playing? While I agree that people should be given the opportunity to reform the line has to be drawn somewhere to remove those that don't or won't from the game and community without giving them the opportunity to ruin even more games with their poor behavior than they already have.

Kei143Dec 5, 20171 votes

If your arguement is "we need a self muting method", yes I agree with you. For those that can control themselves enough to mute themselves, that is a good method.

For the toxics that aren't willing to reform, Riot has found that if they weren't willing to change after a 14-day ban, giving them another tier of punishment will just prolong their eventual punishment.

ŻügżwängDec 5, 20171 votes

No, my argument is we need an exponentially escalating chat-restriction. Repeated offenders can reform once they realize that future punishments will be too much, or get an even longer punishment if they continue to be toxic.

Muting someone who spews toxicity for a full year is fine as long as they play the game without spoiling it for others. If they choose to ruin games out of spite, then they should get reported for that, and then be removed from the game.

Pierce The VealDec 5, 20171 votes

Riot Games have better social psychologist than all of the greats and years of research by the entire scientific community.

This here, we accept as fact.

zPOOPzDec 5, 20171 votes

They already tried escalating chat restriction all the way to 1000s of games. Didn't work. People resorted to gameplay toxicity.

They already tried ranked ban. Didn't work. It made normal draft a toxic hell hole.

GenoXxDec 5, 20171 votes

Just a question. Did you name your self Tantrum because you knew people would come to the boards throwing tantrums about their ban? If so then lol

Imperial PandaaDec 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=daRJEKZw,comment-id=0002000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-07T21:16:38.856+0000)

I mained a Savage on DAoC .. seemed fitting.

He gets asked this a lot.

PaladinNODec 5, 20171 votes

Is it a hard thing, collecting some such chat logs? I am curious about my own.

I've never even received a chat restriction, but I'd like to see some of my own...speeches, as I like to get chatty on occasion, to hear if there is anything I should address.

Keep up the good work, Tantram.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Pierce The VealDec 5, 20172 votes

Yep. I've been there and experienced the time, but people seem to disagree with my experience so it's fine with me.

What I'm pointing out is a difference in times, and a change over time. Whether this is a good change or a bad change, that's anyone's opinion, but I pointed something out and got -8'ed for it. So be it.

captaincomando1Dec 4, 20172 votes

Such a reckless hate .I would not just ban him I would send him to jail ...

Kei143Dec 5, 20171 votes

Depends.

For me, if I saw that he had more than 3 games of similar speech, I would have clicked punish.

If it was 1 game only, I would have clicked pardon.

Pierce The VealDec 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Depends.

For me, if I saw that he had more than 3 games of similar speech, I would have clicked punish.

If it was 1 game only, I would have clicked pardon.

Samish.

MuffledGarbageDec 4, 20172 votes

TANTRAM COMIN IN HOT WITH THE ROOOOAAASSST!!!

CheeZForRealDec 4, 20172 votes

Name checks out

MindspeakerDec 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HYNXaLEm,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-12-04T17:53:42.596+0000)

Please, stop editing chat logs. It does no good to post that you are confused about your ban, looking for insight, when you clearly knew the chat contained inappropriate things so you removed them.

[1:36] Lord of Woe (Rengar): ty [3:31] Lord of Woe (Rengar): can we fight?> [3:59] Lord of Woe (Rengar): trist too low to stay [4:01] Lord of Woe (Rengar): hope it helps [4:04] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sorry. [4:13] Lord of Woe (Rengar): lol [4:35] Lord of Woe (Rengar): ill come again soon enough [4:39] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gonna help other lanes [6:13] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gromp then top [6:17] Lord of Woe (Rengar): actually fk that [6:19] Lord of Woe (Rengar): im coming now [7:12] Lord of Woe (Rengar): GJ [7:13] Lord of Woe (Rengar): aiowhebfuiagweioufgvawef [7:29] Lord of Woe (Rengar): coming bot with ult at 6 [8:35] Lord of Woe (Rengar): want to dive? [8:48] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gj [8:50] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sry sona [9:52] Lord of Woe (Rengar): run sona! xD [9:56] Lord of Woe (Rengar): lol np [10:08] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sry about that .-. [10:15] Lord of Woe (Rengar): zed no ult [13:05] Lord of Woe (Rengar): ani come [13:30] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sigh [13:41] Lord of Woe (Rengar): she had leap? [13:44] Lord of Woe (Rengar): the fk you mean [13:48] Lord of Woe (Rengar): stop trying to tell others how to play [13:51] Lord of Woe (Rengar): you died didn't you? [14:36] Lord of Woe (Rengar): you were assisted from sona and i [14:38] Lord of Woe (Rengar): on all your kills [15:17] Lord of Woe (Rengar): l0l [15:18] Lord of Woe (Rengar): You're bad [15:19] Lord of Woe (Rengar): stfu [16:30] Lord of Woe (Rengar): 3 are top [16:32] Lord of Woe (Rengar): why wouldn't I? [16:35] Lord of Woe (Rengar): no? [17:54] Lord of Woe (Rengar): LOOLOLOL [17:59] Lord of Woe (Rengar): wasted ult and flash [18:03] Lord of Woe (Rengar): cause bad positioningh [18:25] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sorry was busy shutting down your laner for you [18:43] Lord of Woe (Rengar): You started talking trash first?.. [19:19] Lord of Woe (Rengar): yeah you're right [19:50] Lord of Woe (Rengar): LOL [20:05] Lord of Woe (Rengar): yeah [20:07] Lord of Woe (Rengar): talk more [20:14] Lord of Woe (Rengar): enjoy the ban [20:15] Lord of Woe (Rengar): ^_^ [20:19] Lord of Woe (Rengar): i muted her [20:20] Lord of Woe (Rengar): it's okay [25:04] Lord of Woe (Rengar): mf should start trying to ult more than 1 person at a time [27:18] Lord of Woe (Rengar): hmm [27:22] Lord of Woe (Rengar): trist 100 hp [28:34] Lord of Woe (Rengar): trist [28:35] Lord of Woe (Rengar): qauowbefiyuawfg7ioefguvaw3ef [28:37] Lord of Woe (Rengar): sigh [28:57] Lord of Woe (Rengar): teemo can you stop? [29:07] Lord of Woe (Rengar): why would you get caught? [29:11] Lord of Woe (Rengar): enjoy report. [31:45] Lord of Woe (Rengar): mf weak [35:57] [All] Lord of Woe (Rengar): Hi [37:05] Lord of Woe (Rengar): nice stop [37:14] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gj [38:19] [All] Lord of Woe (Rengar): gg [38:22] [All] Lord of Woe (Rengar): report mf

In addition to your 2 chat restrictions, you got a 14-day ban less than a month ago. During that time you were told that the next penalty would be a perma-ban. Well, here we are.

Another awesome smite by Tantrum !

Thanks for all your efforts to take pointless and completely unjustifiable negativity out of the game .

MarshbouyDec 5, 20171 votes

Tantram I love you.

Banned? I didn't say anything toxic?!?!

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