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How Riot handles the problems within the community makes no sense

Sirvas··2 votes·710 views

Greetings. I come from Peru and we have different social norms than in the USA it seems. The following conversation ocurred in a game and I got suspended for 14 days, despite not being toxic like other players that I have seen never get banned for legit disruptive actions, such as intentional feeding and constant flaming.

Game 1 Sirvas: If I say %%%%%% randomly, will you report me? Sirvas: I cannot use %%%%%% in order to ask questions? I am not using the word Sirvas: not doing that tho (response to Thresh, someone that probably reported me, going on a tirade about suffering, oppression and whatnot) Sirvas: just the word Sirvas: dont get triggered Sirvas: Please, do not call me a %%%%%%%%%got (me requesting to not be called that, but they are free to ignore it) Sirvas: is %%%%% ok? Sirvas: how about %%%%%? Sirvas: or nibber? Sirvas: I am from Peru. American culture amuses me Sirvas: oh no the language police Sirvas: ok, but you will never know when you will get it (answering to Nasus requesting a free kill in order to not report me for using a no-no word, even though it was not aimed at someone in particular) Sirvas: kek Sirvas: that was brutasl Sirvas: even your ancestros felt that Sirvas: sure Sirvas: rip in pieces pieces Sirvas: given (the "free kill", but not really) Sirvas: focused tresh for the lulz (telling him why it was a free kill) Sirvas: tresh focus lol Sirvas: nice indedededed Sirvas: HEY GUISE Sirvas: HELP TOP PLS Sirvas: sorry caps Sirvas: but really Sirvas: constant 4 manning top Sirvas: or 3 manning

I think this is a clear case of imposing an American taboo in a situation in which the no-no word (which is by itself a ridiculous concept) was used not as an insult, but within a question regarding an hypothetical scenario. That is without mentioning that other people used variations of the words in the game without repercussions. So sad to see language policing creeping into the community, while actual issues remain unaddressed. Worst of all, I am an honor 5 player that always tries to be chill and that has supported Riot for a long time. Yet I am suspended while silent trolls (or just trolls that do not use no-no words) remain active. Apparently context and reason is too much to ask for. I guess times change and not always in a positive way.

Bonus: Here is a worse case, but since he used another way to write essentially the same thing AND as an insult (which is not how I used the word), he remains unpunished. This makes no sense whatsoever. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/dEU1m1Gh-why-is-this-not-permaban-material-also-psa-inside

18 Comments

Jo0o10 votes

Why would a game of League be your staging ground to get a grasp of American culture, and how did you make it to level 58 without figuring out basics like this?

Sirvas1 votes

It is not the only place where I can get greater understanding of American culture at all. I just think it is nonsensical in this case if you really want to eradicate behavior that actually affects how games develop. He could have just muted me, although I would say that also makes little sense since I was not even using the word to insult anyone. And that is even without pointing out how irrational it is to have taboo words.

ModUlanopo4 votes

And that is even without pointing out how irrational it is to have taboo words.

It's not irrational at all. It's very rational, as the development of social mores is an essential component of civilization. You need people living and working together in relative peace, for which communication is required. Language that tends to provoke is actually the opposite of that.

Further, this notion that what you said was okay because the target could have muted you is flatly ridiculous. You're demanding someone else change their behavior so you can be a jerk. That's not fair in any sense.

Sirvas2 votes

{quoted}

It's not irrational at all. It's very rational, as the development of social mores is an essential component of civilization. You need people living and working together in relative peace, for which communication is required. Language that tends to provoke is actually the opposite of that.

Further, this notion that what you said was okay because the target could have muted you is flatly ridiculous. You're demanding someone else change their behavior so you can be a jerk. That's not fair in any sense.

Specific words only provoke given context, which is something you have ignored completely. If you pay attention, you will see I did not use the word as an insult (as in actually being a jerk), but rather as part of a question.

Regarding your comment about social mores, your argument has two flaws. It assumes the best way of having peaceful communication is banning words instead of fostering an evironment that promotes genuine respect and resilience and, if you agree with the Thresh of that game, it is a genetic fallacy by ascribing properties to an specific word based on its history.

Gall3 votes

{quoted}

Specific words only provoke given context, which is something you have ignored completely. If you pay attention, you will see I did not use the word as an insult (as in actually being a jerk), but rather as part of a question.

Regarding your comment about social mores, your argument has two flaws. It assumes the best way of having peaceful communication is banning words instead of fostering an evironment that promotes genuine respect and resilience and, if you agree with the Thresh of that game, it is a genetic fallacy by ascribing properties to an specific word based on its history.

You should listen to Bill Burr. He's a hilarious and genius comedian who has a similar mindset to yours.

ModUlanopo3 votes

{quoted}

Specific words only provoke given context, which is something you have ignored completely. If you pay attention, you will see I did not use the word as an insult (as in actually being a jerk), but rather as part of a question.

Stop being facetious. Your chat logs clearly indicate you were trying to start something while skirting the edge of the IFS triggers.

Sirvas: is %%%%% ok? Sirvas: how about %%%%%? Sirvas: or nibber?

The context here was your awareness of the provocative nature of those terms and your using them to make people angry. No one is fooled by the innocent act. You were toxic. The system detected it and you were punished accordingly. End of story.

Regarding your comment about social mores, your argument has two flaws. It assumes the best way of having peaceful communication is banning words instead of fostering an evironment that promotes genuine respect and resilience

Even if I accepted this premise - which I don't - you're being disingenuous. If your intent was to foster dialogue, a League match is in no way the appropriate place to do it, in both practical terms and by the mores of the space. Once again, you're claiming one thing, but really doing another.

and, if you agree with the Thresh of that game, it is a genetic fallacy by ascribing properties to an specific word based on its history.

Nice try. In the first place, we don't have what the Thresh said in front of us, meaning we can only go by what you typed, which is only right and proper.

Also, you're attempting to use the idea of a genetic fallacy in reverse. A genetic fallacy is an argument that ignores the context of the terms being discussed, which is exactly what you're doing when you attempt to claim that the context is something other than commonly understood racial slurs being used in a League match.

Sirvas1 votes

{quoted}

Stop being facetious. Your chat logs clearly indicate you were trying to start something while skirting the edge of the IFS triggers.

The context here was your awareness of the provocative nature of those terms and your using them to make people angry. No one is fooled by the innocent act. You were toxic. The system detected it and you were punished accordingly. End of story.

Even if I accepted this premise - which I don't - you're being disingenuous. If your intent was to foster dialogue, a League match is in no way the appropriate place to do it, in both practical terms and by the mores of the space. Once again, you're claiming one thing, but really doing another.

Nice try. In the first place, we don't have what the Thresh said in front of us, meaning we can only go by what you typed, which is only right and proper.

Also, you're attempting to use the idea of a genetic fallacy in reverse. A genetic fallacy is an argument that ignores the context of the terms being discussed, which is exactly what you're doing when you attempt to claim that the context is something other than commonly understood racial slurs being used in a League match.

1- My logs do not "clearly" indicate that. That is your interpretation. It was a genuine question (which I already have an answer to lol).

2- That does not prove my awareness of the provovative nature of those words since I do not even believe those words are provocative by nature, but rather by context. Nice mind reading skills you got there btw. What it shows is me asking if variations of the word are offensive too, specially considering how people get away with actually using as an insult by saying n i b b a or kneeger. Just shows how silly the system is.

3- I said foster an environment that fosters genuine respect and resilience, not necessarily dialogue (although it is likely). Dialogue just happens to be one of the ways that can happen, but there are other ways, such as adopting a more resilient mindset, addressing the questions asked (specially if born out of cultural differences) instead of saying "reported", among other things.

4- I do not have the logs, but I pointed out in general terms what he said. Also I am not ignoring the context. I am very aware of it. I know I used the word in a conversation in a videogame with someone that very likely lives a comfortable life and needs not to worry about the word being used in the same way and circumstances of the past (while I have to worry about a resurgence of Shining Path and general political instability...not that it matters though). This situation is clearly not the same as an slave owner saying it in front of his slave or a white nationalist dropping it as part of a call to violence.

I know the absolutist rules that are in place and that disregard context (like it not being used as an insult). I know I will just have to wait 14 days to play again. I know how absurd this system is.

Try paying more attention to people actually disrupting the game, such as intentional feeders and trolls, and less effort on enforcing absolutist rules that disregard context.

Gall2 votes

{quoted}

It's not irrational at all. It's very rational, as the development of social mores is an essential component of civilization. You need people living and working together in relative peace, for which communication is required. Language that tends to provoke is actually the opposite of that.

Further, this notion that what you said was okay because the target could have muted you is flatly ridiculous. You're demanding someone else change their behavior so you can be a jerk. That's not fair in any sense.

Isn't it ironic that the hate speech he used (not directed towards anyone in a negative connotation) is heard in most popular songs as well as within a large minority group in the US? It almost sounds like the statement ". . . the development of social mores is an essential component of civilization." is belittling the minority groups who use the N word. I absolutely know that's not what you're trying to infer but still. I see a lot of irony when it comes to sensitive topics like this.

ModUlanopo3 votes

Nope. Not ironic at all. Different communities have different rules and expectations. The larger the scale of the community or culture, the more critical those become.

Look at it this way: would your choice of language change if you were sitting around drinking beer with your best friends as compared to being at the funeral for a loved one? Obviously it would.

Essentially, the OP is arguing that only his or her intent matters, which is incorrect in a couple of different ways.

Modi1 votes

There several reasons why said minority uses it in the first place. Here's two possibilities:

  1. To remove the power of the words, by diminishing its negative connotation
  2. To throw it back in the faces of the people who used it as an offense (aka we can say it, but you can't)

#1 is seen in many instances, and I can say I have used it personally to verbally disarm one of my siblings. I am not an extremely tall man, but when I was young, I was rather short. My brothers would often call me "shorty", "short stack", etc. When I started replying "yep, I'm short", it stopped being a weapon for them, and basically took away their power. While I don't condone #2, I can understand why they would use it in this manner

Gall1 votes

{quoted}

There several reasons why said minority uses it in the first place. Here's two possibilities:

  1. To remove the power of the words, by diminishing its negative connotation
  2. To throw it back in the faces of the people who used it as an offense (aka we can say it, but you can't)

#1 is seen in many instances, and I can say I have used it personally to verbally disarm one of my siblings. I am not an extremely tall man, but when I was young, I was rather short. My brothers would often call me "shorty", "short stack", etc. When I started replying "yep, I'm short", it stopped being a weapon for them, and basically took away their power. While I don't condone #2, I can understand why they would use it in this manner

I agree with you 100%. It can be confusing for someone from a different country though, such as the OP who is allegedly from Peru (who knows).

Troll for Trump1 votes

Ok the N-word and the N-word that ends with an A are different

130x2 votes

Despite what you may still hear in Peru, USA is very oppressed as you have found out. Do what you are told, work until you die, or go rot in jail. I forsee them making us dress like hipsters in the near future.

Gall1 votes

Using the N word under any circumstances is categorized under hate speech according to league of legends. It's a shame you can't listen to half the music that's out there or have any African American friends, less you exposed to such vulgarity sarcasm.

In reality, unless any word is used in negative connotation it should not be reportable. I think using such a word holds a double standard (in real life) so it can be confusing for people of other nationalities. At least in league there's no double standard and anyone who says it gets the ban hammer (lol imagine telling a black person irl to not say that because it's a bad word) but hey, that's online for you.

Just want to say I'm super white and would never use the word (due to social norms). I sincerely believe the people who are offended the most are other white people being offended on behalf of blacks, which is racism itself.

Kei1431 votes

Different servers have different rules. You are on NA server, so play by NA rules.

you probably can get away with some of this if you played on LAN or LAS servers.

If you want to learn about culture, learn it in an environment that you can chill and chat, and not in the middle of intense games.

GettemClone1 votes

you're actually dumb its scary @_@"

Sirvas1 votes

{quoted}

you're actually dumb its scary @_@"

And yet you cannot point how am I wrong. Funny how it works.

Sirvas1 votes

So from what I can read, it seems most of you are not capable of independent rational thought and instead just accept silly rules, such as having taboo words, gladly.

I am no longer banned, but this has accomplished nothing. Trolls and griefers are still rampant while saying a taboo word, even when not used as an insult, still gets you banned. I will just stop using the chat feature and talk with friends. Maybe I will also use discord and say whatever the fuck I want.

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