Leave buster cracking down for the wrong reason's? Can we prevent conflict in game with changes?

Darkis Wolfen·Jul 29, 2017·1 votes·553 views

Leave Buster, we know it well. Each and every one of us have had to deal with the leave buster system at some point I'm sure. I do notice however, that even if you leave for all the right reasons, such as; Team is being toxic to one another just in the loading screen, or someone banned someones champ they where hovering out of sheer spite of that person not giving them their lane they wanted, etcetera etcetera etcetera. I firmly believe that there can be a simple and easy solution to this problem, that does not result in so many people having to sit out 5+ minutes due to them trying to prevent conflict/issue. I believe a simple system like the surrender mechanic could work. Say it could be used up until the last champ is picked, but once they are picked: leave buster activates. If anyone at Riot or anyone else in general has a better idea, please speak up and give your idea. I just think this is one of our best options in-stead of having to close the client and restart the game AND wait 5+ minutes.

24 Comments

ChermorgJul 29, 20173 votes

Every time someone posts asking for a "authorized dodge" or similar system, I ask them where they got their crystal ball that shows them what's going to be done in-game before the game starts.

Riot is considering/internally testing a system to report toxic chat before game. However, that is the only thing that can be done before game that is punishable. You cannot punish trolling/inting/afk/leave before it happens.

Beas7ieJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Every time someone posts asking for a "authorized dodge" or similar system, I ask them where they got their crystal ball that shows them what's going to be done in-game before the game starts.

Riot is considering/internally testing a system to report toxic chat before game. However, that is the only thing that can be done before game that is punishable. You cannot punish trolling/inting/afk/leave before it happens.

I'll have you know that I use astral projection, not a crystal ball.

Seriously though, I think it would be good if everyone gets one, and ONLY ONE free dodge per day. By free dodge I mean you can dodge with NO penalty. No queue dodge penalty, no LP loss for ranked, you can just go ahead and requeue. Crystal ball and Astral Projection or not, sometimes it IS possible to tell a game is going to be crap, especially if someone gets autofilled or just doesn't like the comp and people start getting the trolliest champ selection and summoners spells possible so the champ select basically becomes a game of "chicken".

Uh oh the clocks counting down. The other team has a strong comp and everyone here is trolling. Good chance we're going to be stomped and lose TONS OF LP! Ticking down, who's gonna dodge?

While a situation that extreme may be somewhat rare it would still be nice to get one freebie. With this you get ONE free dodge per day. Use it wisely and it goes across ALL game modes. So if you use it in ARAM, then you still get hit with the full penalty if you dodge later on during ranked.

With something like this, it can really cut down on pregame toxicity and people getting into horrible matchups, but since you get only one, things won't be a dodge fest where everyone is dodging willy nilly just because they get upset that they don't have that super perfect no way to fail team comp.

ChermorgJul 29, 20171 votes

I don't see why one person should ever be permitted to waste 3-5 minutes of 9 others' time.

If this system was ever implemented it would be as a vote similar to surrender. Just like how one gets punished for almost any AFK (even if they voted to surrender 3 times and their team didn't vote yes), one gets punished for any dodge because it still inconveniences other people and there is almost never a reason to dodge in champ select. If someone wants to dodge because they don't like breaking the meta or players taking non-standard spells/champion, or they don't feel like muting someone in game, that's not Riot's problem to fix.

Beas7ieJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't see why one person should ever be permitted to waste 3-5 minutes of 9 others' time.

If this system was ever implemented it would be as a vote similar to surrender. Just like how one gets punished for almost any AFK (even if they voted to surrender 3 times and their team didn't vote yes), one gets punished for any dodge because it still inconveniences other people and there is almost never a reason to dodge in champ select. If someone wants to dodge because they don't like breaking the meta or players taking non-standard spells/champion, or they don't feel like muting someone in game, that's not Riot's problem to fix.

Are you trying to say that you've never ever ever EVER started a game where things have gone to crap in champ select? I don't mean just the comp being sub parred with you and/or your teammates getting countered, I mean outright open flaming and playing saying they're going to int/troll. Locking in horrible picks(not just off meta, off meta is fine if they do their best) all with the intent to enrage and tilt others.

If so, then you must have some incredible luck. What do you use? Four leaf clover? Rabbit's foot? Regular offerings to Fortuna the Goddess of Luck? Blood sacrifices to Cthullu?

And if you have been through that and still feel that people should get penalized for not wanting to suffer through that and they're "wasting other's time" then you sir, are one cruel cruel individual. If you have a job where you're one of the bosses, then I pity the poor employees that must work under you. May Cthullu have mercy on their souls.

ChermorgJul 29, 20171 votes

No, because champion select isn't the game. The game literally cannot "go to crap" before it starts. Further, there are so many variables that you cannot control that it's literally impossible to predict how the game will end within the first minute or two of the game, much less champ select.

Getting countered? Play under turret and wait for ganks. Playing a non-meta pick? Soraka ADC is actually really powerful, fyi. Games go great all the time even when champ select doesn't end the best.

You're literally saying something akin to "let's arrest the guy robbing the gas station just for wearing a ski mask while pumping his gas on the way back from a ski trip". He might rob the store, sure! Let's just arrest everyone in fact, we can predict what they're going to do!

Again, I've said Riot is working on a system that will possibly be implemented to allow people to report toxic chat before the game starts. But that system will not be for gameplay offenses (trolling/inting/etc). Only for toxic communication.

Beas7ieJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No, because champion select isn't the game. The game literally cannot "go to crap" before it starts. Further, there are so many variables that you cannot control that it's literally impossible to predict how the game will end within the first minute or two of the game, much less champ select.

Getting countered? Play under turret and wait for ganks. Playing a non-meta pick? Soraka ADC is actually really powerful, fyi. Games go great all the time even when champ select doesn't end the best.

You're literally saying something akin to "let's arrest the guy robbing the gas station just for wearing a ski mask while pumping his gas on the way back from a ski trip". He might rob the store, sure! Let's just arrest everyone in fact, we can predict what they're going to do!

Again, I've said Riot is working on a system that will possibly be implemented to allow people to report toxic chat before the game starts. But that system will not be for gameplay offenses (trolling/inting/etc). Only for toxic communication.

No, I'm not saying that about the ski mask guy at all. I'm saying something more along the lines of "Hey that guy wearing the ski mask, just finished pumping his gas, and now he's going into the gas station while PULLING OUT A GUN!"

I'm not talking about "just off meta" or "someone asks to switch roles" I'm talking about how, while not very common, there are people that will start trolling and griefing from the start or be matched with teammates already arguing over some silly thing or another, or someone being an ass and banning a champ that a teammate wants to play. You can "have an open mind" and be all "come on guys chillax we can still win this". or even "just mute them later", but I personally(and many others) would rather NOT have to play on a team where everyone is already raging at each other over silly things from the start.

It's bad enough that it happens a lot if your team gets behind, I don't need that shit right from the get go. You can suffer through that and try and turn that all around. Go ahead and call the bluff of that raging autofilled guy that's now picking Garen support and says he's just going to run down every lane and feed as many kills as possible to the other team. Even if he really is bluffing, I still don't want to be on a team with someone like that.

ChermorgJul 29, 20171 votes

Champion select isn't the be all end all of a game.

It's literally impossible to predict with any statistically significant accuracy the outcome of the game from the champion select.

If you'd rather not play on a team with random strangers, you're free to queue up with your friends in a 5 man premade, or play custom games with less. If you'd rather never be at a disadvantage from champion select, you're free to play blind pick or custom games where pick order doesn't matter. If you'd rather not have to deal with the occasional person picking off-meta, again, you're free to queue up with your friends.

You have no right to dictate that "oh I don't like what you picked so you have to sit through another queue time". Nor "you're being a bit negative but even though I can mute you in game I'm going to force my other teammates to sit through another queue time and the enemy too".

Beas7ieJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Champion select isn't the be all end all of a game.

It's literally impossible to predict with any statistically significant accuracy the outcome of the game from the champion select.

If you'd rather not play on a team with random strangers, you're free to queue up with your friends in a 5 man premade, or play custom games with less. If you'd rather never be at a disadvantage from champion select, you're free to play blind pick or custom games where pick order doesn't matter. If you'd rather not have to deal with the occasional person picking off-meta, again, you're free to queue up with your friends.

You have no right to dictate that "oh I don't like what you picked so you have to sit through another queue time". Nor "you're being a bit negative but even though I can mute you in game I'm going to force my other teammates to sit through another queue time and the enemy too".

I'm starting to think that you're not reading my comments at all. I've specifically said that it is NOT about disliking your teammates or their picks, but those instances where they are ALREADY insulting and raging at each, and picking as silly picks as the can think of SPECIFICALLY TO TROLL AND GRIEF! They have said straight up they're inting and feeding. They have no desire to win at this point. All they want to do is make others suffer.

Wanting to get out of that is a shit ton different from "I'm at a disadvantage, I'm going to leave and inconvenience everyone else" or "You picked someone I don't like, I'm going to send you back to queue now"

Or maybe you have just never been in a champ select where things were worse than "Our team has a minor disadvantage but if we all play smart and work together we can win this. Now everyone put your hands in the circle and GGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TEAM! YAY! YEAH YAY! YAY SUPER HAPPY FUN TIME!"

Damn I wish I had your matchmaking luck. Everytime I try and get people to put their hands in the circle and yell "GOOOOOOOOOO TEAM YAY YEAH YAY SUPER HAPPY FUN TIME!" They all tell me to piss off and/or go fuck myself.

I guess if I had that luck I'd be against people queue dodging for any whatsoever too.

ChermorgJul 29, 20171 votes

I'm intentionally ignoring parts of your argument that rely on speculation/a mysterious crystal ball.

If you think you're all-knowing to know someone's intentions? Cool, most people aren't.

But having a system that allows people to vote on someone's intentions will lead to tons of abuse and tons of dodged queues. You don't like a matchup? Convince enough of your team to vote to dodge. You don't like a teammate's pick? Convince enough of the team to vote against a dodge.

Riot can't just make a system for the 1% of cases. Riot's system works in the vast majority of cases - if there was a dodge vote implemented it'd be abused and lead to extremely long queue times just because people would vote when it wasn't worth it.

Beas7ieJul 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm intentionally ignoring parts of your argument that rely on speculation/a mysterious crystal ball.

If you think you're all-knowing to know someone's intentions? Cool, most people aren't.

But having a system that allows people to vote on someone's intentions will lead to tons of abuse and tons of dodged queues. You don't like a matchup? Convince enough of your team to vote to dodge. You don't like a teammate's pick? Convince enough of the team to vote against a dodge.

Riot can't just make a system for the 1% of cases. Riot's system works in the vast majority of cases - if there was a dodge vote implemented it'd be abused and lead to extremely long queue times just because people would vote when it wasn't worth it.

Crystal balls aren't necessary if you go by experience. You obviously have had different experiences, but Every Single Time, someone has threatened to feed, grief, int, troll, or have even "warned us" that they would "play poorly" with the current matchup(this isn't just someone throwing a tantrum because they got left with support), even if they're in the role they want a champ they like, and/or teammates have been raging, insulting, and flaming from the get go, that game has gone to crap if it wasn't dodged. I've NEVER EVER EVER EVER had a game go well after starting under those circumstances. You don't need a "crystal ball" to predict if things are going to go bad when literally every single time, and by literally, I really do mean literally literally as in for real not exaggerating, when if you know by experience everything has gone to crap under those circumstances. It's unreasonable that this time, the situation will turn into a "special snowflake" and things will turn out well. No they will not, and anyone who wants to punish someone for dodging out of that situation is a cruel cruel individual.

ChermorgJul 30, 20171 votes

I'm sorry that your "gut feeling" is not valid evidence of behavior that hasn't happened yet. You can believe and think all you want, but you can't force 9 other people (or 5 if your entire team votes to dodge) to sit through another queue just because of your "gut feeling".

Also, your "literally every single time" isn't "literally", as I've had games that are easily won after really stressful, tense, and sometimes even downright screaming in champ select.

Beas7ieJul 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry that your "gut feeling" is not valid evidence of behavior that hasn't happened yet. You can believe and think all you want, but you can't force 9 other people (or 5 if your entire team votes to dodge) to sit through another queue just because of your "gut feeling".

Also, your "literally every single time" isn't "literally", as I've had games that are easily won after really stressful, tense, and sometimes even downright screaming in champ select.

You're wrong. First of all, if an entire team is flaming, trolling, griefing, etc in champ select, then they aren't "victims" if someone dodges and sends them back to queue. At most it would be 5 people on the other team.

And you must be the exception, because my "literally" IS literally.

Literally

Every

Single

Game

Where

That

Has

Happened

The

Game

Was

Crap

The experiences of those dozens(possibly hundreds) of games is more than significant evidence to determine "Hey, this game is going to be horrible for us, I should just dodge"

But you've obviously made your stance that the people who troll and grief and try and get other people to dodge are the victims and the dodger is the villain in this matter.

There is no convincing you or making you not be a cruel person who wants to punish people for wanting to have half decent games. So I bid you good day sir.

Darkis WolfenJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't see why one person should ever be permitted to waste 3-5 minutes of 9 others' time.

If this system was ever implemented it would be as a vote similar to surrender. Just like how one gets punished for almost any AFK (even if they voted to surrender 3 times and their team didn't vote yes), one gets punished for any dodge because it still inconveniences other people and there is almost never a reason to dodge in champ select. If someone wants to dodge because they don't like breaking the meta or players taking non-standard spells/champion, or they don't feel like muting someone in game, that's not Riot's problem to fix.

That's what i am trying to get at. I HATE when someone dodges a game last second, but majority of the time (probably around 75% or so) they do it because every person is being unsportsmanlike/toxic to one another, so why shouldn't a system be put in place that try's to combat this?

ChermorgJul 29, 20171 votes

If a system is put in place it should be a vote, and it would only be usable for toxic communications.

Further, I think one of the big reasons this hasn't been implemented yet is that it would be abused by people mad at role/champion/picks/etc. Considering there's no way to prevent that abuse of a system that allows a dodge "vote", it can't be implemented.

Darkis WolfenJul 29, 20171 votes

I understand what you are saying here, and I do get how they cant just punish people pre-game. I do however beg the question then; what is wrong with making said system like the post game report system then? In essence how would you suggest that people who want to prevent conflict go about doing so?

ChermorgJul 29, 20171 votes

There is no way a random person in a game can prevent all conflict. There will be people who try and get their preferred lane. Maybe consider working with them? You can't just prevent them from trolling. However, Riot's system works really good at punishing people toxic in chat. It's getting better (not quite fully great yet) for trolling/intentional feeding. But those behaviors, which are instant 14 day ban on first offense, can't be punished if someone dodges leading to them never occurring.

My advice is this: go into champion select with an open mind. Do everything you can to build a team that works great together. Know that everyone has different personalities. And know that probably 95% of the people who threaten to troll/feed because they don't get their lane are bluffing. Those that aren't bluffing will get swiftly shown the door of League if they're reported after the game.

Darkis WolfenJul 29, 20171 votes

I agree with you still, however I also think there must be SOMETHING that can be done to try and alter the beginning of a game in hopes of preventing it from having to ever get to a bad point. Their is no easy answer for this one, but if nothing else people could at least have something to fall back on.

ChermorgJul 29, 20171 votes

The problem is this: You admit that it's "hope" of preventing it from ever having to get to a bad point. That hope is the same uncertainty that is whether the game will be bad or not.

I hate using this analogy at risk of offending someone or bringing up bad memories, but think of the disease of cancer. It's honestly really random who gets cancer and not. Sure there are lifestyle choices, mutations, predispositions, etc. But there's thousands of people without those that get cancer anyway, and there's thousands of people with those that never get cancer. There's no way to tell who's going to get cancer.

Likewise, there's no way to predict a game before it starts - there's too many variables. Sure champion select can put you at a slight disadvantage - but champion select is never the be all end all of the game. For this reason, you can't try and "cure" a problem that doesn't exist yet and there's no way to predict.

Beas7ieJul 29, 20171 votes

Wait, what?

9Wly9oMl02Jul 29, 20171 votes

Yes, they can. Here's how it will work:

If 3 players agree to kick a player, the game is disbanned. It is then reviewed. It the player kicked was one of those "I got support but im going mid" players, they're permabanned. If the player did nothing wrong, the other 3 are. Solves the issue right there.

ChermorgJul 29, 20175 votes

There is no behavior that is a default permaban on first offense.
There is no penalty for false reports in League. Ever.
You can't punish someone for actions that have not occurred yet. Thus, only chat related offenses are punishable before the game begins.

Beas7ieJul 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

There is no behavior that is a default permaban on first offense.

There is no penalty for false reports in League. Ever.

You can't punish someone for actions that have not occurred yet. Thus, only chat related offenses are punishable before the game begins.

For the record, that there is kind of a penalty of false reporting. If someone sends reports willy nilly about people who don't deserve it, then there is(or at least was) a system in place where ALL reports from that person have less "weight" and are less likely to be reviewed. Kind of a boy who cried wolf type thing.

ChermorgJul 29, 20172 votes

That was before the IFS - the automated system has the ability to review many more reports than are actually filed each day. Thus, Riot just programmed the IFS to review any reported game. One report = review.

9Wly9oMl02Jul 29, 20171 votes

Never said there was. It was a suggestion. And intentionally ruining the game for 4 others should be a permaban on first offense.
Never said that there was. It was a suggestion. To stop people from abusing the system and kicking someone when they have a bad team comp.
So don't pick Fizz and say you're going to troll and you won't get punished for it. Simple.