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Improved Permanent ban appeal system

Annotation··5 votes·2,104 views

Hello everyone, I am a previously toxic player who has suffered a permanent suspension. After receiving the said suspension, I didn't immediately resort to reform like many other players, but I actually did the opposite and didn't learn from my ban because I lost a lot of hard work. In the past there was a previous system that allowed permanently banned players to create a new account to level 20 with no signs of toxicity to regain their account. I believe this system was on the right path however there just wasn't enough effort put into it. With the new honor system, I believe riot should recreate a system that allows permanently banned players to create new accounts and reach honor 5 with no signs of toxicity to regain their account. However not every player should be allowed to do this. I believe that riot should also only allow this to happen to accounts banned for a long duration such as a couple years. Change doesn't usually come immediately and it takes time for one to develop. Throughout years people can reform a lot more and reflect on their past issues. I believe implementing a system similar to this will be able to not only bring back the old player base who have reformed, but also help make the community less toxic. Toxic players (such as my old self) who have gotten banned may not immediately make new accounts and continue the same behavior, but actually strive to become a better person while making a new account to honor 5. This would lead to less toxic accounts being created over and over, but more positive games knowing that with hard work and improvement you could be given a second chance. Achieving honor 5 is an extremely long process and could actually reduce toxicity and increase the player base as well. I have previously talked to a rioter about an appeal system such as this and they said that they would love to implement something towards players because change is apparent through years. After growing as a person over the years I have created a new league of legends account and am having success in the honor system in hopes that an appeal system is created. If this is upvoted enough and this post reaches the top, I believe that riot may actually consider implementing such a system after seeing how much the community yearns for a proper appealing system. A new appeal system would truly make a difference for the league of legends community and it would spread a lot of positivity. Lets try to create a better solution to toxicity and truly reformed players together.

47 Comments

Thee Pie Man8 votes

I don't see why the method would change the results. The results were players were given a chance to reform and less than 5% of those who- guess what? They were chosen to be the BEST candidates for it reformed, but with only a 5% turn around rate.

Look at it this way. To get banned in the first place a player has to ignore warnings, ignore the outcry of their team mates and not give a crap about other individuals in general. So why would playing more games fix it if they couldn't even heed warnings before hand, that they were informed about not only before they got punished in the ToS but after the fact as well, that with continued behavior they'd get banned?...

I believe it would fail just like before, because all you're doing is changing the condition to which a person needs to rise. It takes even LONGER to get level 5 honor. The basis of the test was a one strike you're out rule up to level 20, but you believe extending the time people get to be a good person with no toxic behavior changes the result? How- logically I am completely at a loss.

Annotation1 votes

What im saying is basically people go through rough times. People make mistakes and it happens. They've had multiple warnings but they were young or they were just naive. Honor 5 requires you to be consistently on good behavior for a long period of time which shows improvement in someones behavior. If they are able to get honor 5 on an account then in all honestly they have truly reformed. Honor 5 takes a lot of time and patience and the player could even learn more during that process and reflect on their mistakes. Its not about playing more games, its about showing that you're a consistently positive player ready for a second chance. The one strike your out level 20 level up was flawed because it didn't show long term consistent improvement. If you were able to consistently achieve honor 5 then there would be no reason to do the same once unbanned. With this new system it also allows old players who have grown and reflected on their mistakes to prove themselves consistently

Thee Pie Man6 votes

I understand the premise. However while people do make mistakes it invalidates those that never flame/get restrictions to begin with. You're basically turning the honor system into a tool to teach toxic players to be better while I'm saying that if people couldn't turn around with games at level 20, than I doubt they'd be able to turn around and go that long of a distance for their account. At that point they'd be better off making a new account and very few people would use this system to actually change/get their account back.

The premise that people make mistakes and it happens is exactly why the first system failed, because those 'mistakes' you're referring to are in the full control of the person making them and that's why the turn around rate was so poor. The people that get into permanent banned status 99% of the time deserve it for what they did and they don't learn and even argue here on the forums that they shouldn't have got the ban for whatever reason. They don't actually understand they hurt other people and don't care until the punishment gets to the "I can't play my account I poured money into? UNFAIR!"

Annotation1 votes

Yeah I get that alot of people wouldnt turn around, but alot of people also would. Once reaching rock bottom, a player without any hope has less chance of reforming than a player who has another chance. Maybe some people wont turn around, but some people will and that will lead the community to become more positive. The severity of the permanent ban is still the same, its just that now it gives players a hope to reform. Not all will, but it could lead to less toxicity in the community as there would indeed be less people who give up and just stay toxic.

Thee Pie Man6 votes

Let me ask you this- would it change anything to have this system you're proposing implemented before the final ban? Because honestly that's what I feel like is the case already with how the system works. People have warnings/chances/etc BEFORE they even get banned, the system is in place to try and help players make the right choices, to cool their heads but they STILL escalate problems and ruin games for other players. If this was a different game I might take a different stance with this. However League of Legends is a team game and being disruptive for even one other person is bad if not the entire team, which can effect the enemy team too meaning you can effect up to 9 other people with your actions in game. Yet Riot gives people leniency in the first place, they give people chance after chance to prove they can improve but until they get hit by that "rock bottom" point, they don't change not because they weren't given a chance to, but because there's no system in place to guide people to learn and help from each other.

If a lot of people wouldn't turn around then the system is pointless. Unless there's over a 50% turn around rate I wouldn't see ideas like these being accepted. No one has the resources/time/willingness, or the few that do wouldn't be able to handle the number of people needing said attention in the first place to fix the problems present. People that get permanently banned, again I'll reiterate- do not see why what they were doing is wrong. That's a good enough reason alone for them not to be allowed to have the stuff on said account/to get punished by having no more access to it. They kept doing their behaviors because of that very fact. Why else would they risk losing an account? They didn't know the risk/realize what could get them banned and then wham-o.

You might see it as unforgiving, and I agree to an extent everyone should have attention and get to reform, etc etc. I want everyone to enjoy the game and have fun with each other. But these players went out of their way to make stuff harder on their team on multiple occasions and now want clemency that they didn't offer said teammates.

Annotation2 votes

This appeal system has no downside and only helps the players who really want to change. It honestly does more good and bad. League is a team game and you want to have fun. A lot of the people who made it negative will end up recreating negative results again and again because the permaban only gets rid of a single account. With a new system that can give you a second chance, it could honestly stop alot of people from recreating negative results over and over because there is hope. This reduces toxicity by a lot and putting the millions of players on league of legends on this system could really help positivity spread in the community. They made it hard but instead of making it harder they can amend their mistakes. There is nothing to lose and only to gain. This will actually help reduce toxicity.

AeroWaffle2 votes

The major downside is it encourages perma-banned players to create a new account and play again to have a chance at getting their stuff back.

Which is counter-intuitive to the message that Riot wants to send with the perma ban.

Annotation2 votes

You have to realize that Riot encourages reform and players who were permanently banned still have the right to play. Players who were permanently banned are not banned from remaking an account and by all means are allowed to play and sometimes encouraged to start again reformed.

This actually helps prevent your "downside" as instead of having permabanned players create accounts to repeat the process, they will repeat to reform in hopes that they can regain their account.

AeroWaffle2 votes

They are not banned from creating a new account because it's unrealistic and not worth the effort, not because Riot wants them back.

This is a F2P game. It would be next to impossible for Riot to prevent someone from creating a new account.

Mordius1 votes

{quoted}

They are not banned from creating a new account because it's unrealistic and not worth the effort, not because Riot wants them back.

So what you're saying is that the current system doesn't actually lower toxicity, since toxic players can simply make new accounts.

AeroWaffle3 votes

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Riot is already doing what is feasible to get people to leave.

Just because it's possible for people to create new accounts doesn't mean that Riot should actively encourage those that have already proven to have extremely poor behavior back into the game. That's why the level 20 challenge was discontinued.

Annotation1 votes

But the level 20 challenge seemed a little flawed. It was too short of a period with too small of a test subject to really be accurate. With a new honor 5 system, if your behavior is extremely poor you won't make it. If you are reformed and truly regret the past then you will make it and receive your account unbanned. There are no third tries, only one single try and its not easy. They encourage reform, but the reform should be a long and hard process.

AeroWaffle1 votes

It was harder to reach level 20 back then, and it being a short time frame works against your argument. If a vast majority of the participants couldn't hold their behavior for even a small amount of time what makes you think it would be worth it to require them a large amount of time to prove their reform?

Also, what would stop people from requesting yet another try? They would have pretty much the same argument that you're giving now.

The period after the 14-day ban is already suppose to be the last chance.

Bettnachleger1 votes

Why didn't you reform when riot told you that the next ban is a permaban?

Percentages1 votes

{quoted}

The major downside is it encourages perma-banned players to create a new account and play again to have a chance at getting their stuff back.

Which is counter-intuitive to the message that Riot wants to send with the perma ban.

They already do that skippy...

Thee Pie Man3 votes

They do not make a new account to get their stuff back, they make a new account to play again. I think you need to read the entire sentence before jumping on them. They are saying it encourages those that did bad to get their stuff back by making a new account (Because they wouldn't be able to play on the permabanned one.)

Mordius1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EcdQ8A6l,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-19T04:45:20.112+0000)

They do not make a new account to get their stuff back, they make a new account to play again. I think you need to read the entire sentence before jumping on them. They are saying it encourages those that did bad to get their stuff back by making a new account (Because they wouldn't be able to play on the permabanned one.)

It encourages permabanned players to reform their behavior so that it is in line with the summoner's code, else risk losing their account again.

Toxic players wouldn't spend 8+ months leveling a new account to get their main account back, just to be toxic again on their main. That makes absolutely zero sense.

Anyone who commits 8+ months to reforming, is actually interested in reforming.

You know what doesn't take 8+ months? Getting to level 20.

Thee Pie Man2 votes

I understand what you're saying here and it's not that I disagree- what you're saying makes perfect sense. The problem lies with the consequences actually not being as relevant as they are now. I'd argue that this system you two are proposing/debating for encourages people to be more toxic because they have an 'out.' If something does happen to their main. Also we'd start getting into the grey area where a person can claim its their account and just have someone else do it for money. People already buy accounts to smurf on/troll on. Think someone won't pay someone a cool hundo or so to get an account back by not talking crap for a few months?

Does anyone learn their lesson then? I'm carving out a scenario that could happen and is likely to because the players that spend the most on their accounts have the income to burn to get it unbanned. Sure they can't be toxic anymore, but what does that really say?... All the players that they ruined games for before this don't get any retribution, and this player gets their account back as if none of that happened in the first place.

They got their cake and ate it too, and other players suffered for it because the system you proposed allowed them to do so and still get off without effort on their part.

There will never be a perfect system, but I'd argue that the current one is way better than one that allows people to have their accounts back after hurting other people.

Annotation1 votes

But riot also heavily encourages reforming. After working so hard to get honor 5 and get your account back, would somebody really go right back and get it banned? Having the ability to get honor 5, and going through all that to get your account back shows that you're ready. Nobody would play for 6 months to get honor 5 on their best behavior to instantly get their accounts rebanned.

Thee Pie Man3 votes

Being able to work for the account is irrelevant, if it was so important why did they go about ruining other people's games in the first place and feasibly lacking the self-control to make the choices necessary to reform with the warnings they got?

While your scenario checks out, I'd argue it's minimizing the consequences to just having to play the game like it's already supposed to be played, which if they had done that. They wouldn't be in the situation to NEED to do this in the first place to get their account back. Does that make sense?

Annotation1 votes

Nobody is perfect. People make mistakes. You can play league of legends at the age of 13. Everybody has tough times, some people have nowhere to relieve it and end up taking it out on league. Things happen. The consequence is still there, the permanent ban does not lose its value in any way. Just because theres a second chance doesnt mean its easy to get. It takes time and effort and if you can do it then you deserve it.

Thee Pie Man2 votes

People willfully choosing to use this as an outlet is irresponsible and is just as banworthy in my opinion. You don't get to vent/take out frustrations on random people you meet.

"the permanent ban does not lose its value in any way" Except in name and definition.

"Permanent" means just that. There's no ifs or butts about it. Like I said, turn this into some kind of honor track system before it's a problem or it's useless/not relevant. There's no use saving people that don't want to be saved. Which they basically made a point of by violating the rules after being warned prior, usually on multiple occasions.

If they could do it before hand I'd argue they'd deserve to keep their account, but after the fact they ruined so many games for people? No. They can make a new account and re-buy the stuff and act like a better person or stop playing the game, it's unfair to the people that had to deal with them in the first place that they get a free pass back into the game and the stuff. As someone else pointed out, this is primarily only letting people get things they spent time/money on back in the first place.

They can already play the game again if they wanted to, Riot even says people are free to make an account and start with a clean slate, and that should be enough for people. Why do they need to get their stuff back?

Bettnachleger1 votes

you deserve it.

Okay, and what do non toxic player's get? Don't they deserve something too?

Percentages1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EcdQ8A6l,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-19T04:45:20.112+0000)

They do not make a new account to get their stuff back, they make a new account to play again. I think you need to read the entire sentence before jumping on them. They are saying it encourages those that did bad to get their stuff back by making a new account (Because they wouldn't be able to play on the permabanned one

They don’t, they make a new one to troll even harder. That was my point. No other company in the world I know of can Indian give things that customers paid cold hard cash for. I don’t support any type of trolling, but if someone got permanent banned from an account they spent hundreds of dollars on, what do you think is going to happen? They are going to flame that company.

Mordius2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EcdQ8A6l,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-19T03:54:15.767+0000)

I understand the premise. However while people do make mistakes it invalidates those that never flame/get restrictions to begin with. You're basically turning the honor system into a tool to teach toxic players to be better while I'm saying that if people couldn't turn around with games at level 20, than I doubt they'd be able to turn around and go that long of a distance for their account. At that point they'd be better off making a new account and very few people would use this system to actually change/get their account back.

The premise that people make mistakes and it happens is exactly why the first system failed, because those 'mistakes' you're referring to are in the full control of the person making them and that's why the turn around rate was so poor. The people that get into permanent banned status 99% of the time deserve it for what they did and they don't learn and even argue here on the forums that they shouldn't have got the ban for whatever reason. They don't actually understand they hurt other people and don't care until the punishment gets to the "I can't play my account I poured money into? UNFAIR!"

I see this level 20 study thrown around a lot. Do you know how easy it is to hit level 20? especially with exp boosts?

How could you expect any other outcome? Of course people would abuse that system to get an easy unban. Do you know how hard it is to hit honor level 5? It takes MONTHS. If someone is toxic, there is no way they are hitting honor level 5. No way. You will hit level 100 long before you are even close to reaching honor level 5.

I understand the premise. However while people do make mistakes it invalidates those that never flame/get restrictions to begin with.

A player getting their account back after displaying good behavior in no way invalidates anyone. Their account has nothing to do with you.

Youre basically turning the honor system into a tool to teach toxic players to be better

THATS WHY THE HONOR SYSTEM WAS CREATED.

At that point theyd be better off making a new account and very few people would use this system to actually change/get their account back.

If few people would use the system anyway, what's the problem?

Thee Pie Man2 votes

How easy it was, was irrelevant. The point was these players who were seen to be the most properly to reform only had less than 5 percent turn around rate. That's abysmally low. That means if 1000 players were toxic, only a mere 50 would reform. That's such a drop in the bucket it isn't even funny. Regardless of that "abusing the system" is exactly why it makes it irrelevant what system it is. If toxic people are going to CONTINUE being toxic then the system doesn't help anyone and potentially ruins another game for someone else.

You're saying their account has nothing to do with me when their toxic behavior could pop into my game at any time because people decided it was okay for them to try again after the many chances they had and failed to change? How doesn't it invalidate the people that behave exactly? Their right is to play the game without flame and etc, and no one has the right to challenge that- to make people feel belittled and etc which is exactly what toxic players do in most cases.

No, the honor system was created to reward those that made positive actions in the game and made people feel more welcome. You're stating it's for the exact opposite purpose. It's not to teach people to be better, it's to reward those that are already nice. People being better because there's rewards involve is just incentivized- it's not MADE for that purpose, just is a side benefit.

The problem is that you're taking away their punishment and saying that it's fine that they did what they did. As I said further down if a system like this was to be in play it should be, before the final ban, and even if it was it's not much different than what is already done. If it's a "strike" you're out system then that's what the permaban was as well.

Chermorg6 votes

I believe this system was on the right path however there just wasn't enough effort put into it.

You're correct. The players who were specifically hand picked at having the highest chance of success failed miserably. Less than 5% of them both successfully completed the challenge and didn't get punished again on their main account after it was unbanned.

The permanent ban would not be effective if there was some way to make it less than permanent - the "Level 20 Challenge" experiment showed that.

Annotation3 votes

A permanent ban just leaves a player with an even worse attitude afterwards. They will continue to just create accounts and make games unenjoyable because there is no more reason for them to care. When you lose everything, you realize how much you truly had. The permanent ban will still be effective because there would only be a second chance that required a long process of consistent efforts. When a player loses their account they truly realize what they lost, and knowing that there is still hope could drive them into reforming. Through the long process of achieving honor 5, they either fail and they lose the opportunity or they reach honor 5 and learn a lot throughout the process and are able to replicate the same process on their main accounts. If a player doesn't have a glimmer of hope after a permanent ban it just leads to a repeat of the process. This new system could perhaps prevent that and create a less toxic community as players would be more open to truly reform.

Chermorg5 votes

See, statistics that Riot has vaguely discussed apparently show that most permanently banned players don't create more accounts - they leave the game. Those who feel wronged by a game tend not to want to put effort into continuing to play the game.

Level 20 didn't used to be as short a process as it is now. I agree that Honor 5 takes longer than Level 20, but if people could reach level 20 without breaking the challenge, they can reach honor 5 without breaking the challenge.. then they'll just go right back to being their old toxic self. Players who want to get their account back will not reform - they'll just act like it. This is what the Level 20 Challenge showed.

Annotation1 votes

Level 20 takes days or weeks, Honor 5 takes months. The process of reaching honor 5 could help with reform and there are players that have reformed and want a second chance. If you went through the hard work of going through months of positivity to get honor 5, the chance of repeating that same behavior seems alot lower than just reaching level 20 without much thinking or reflecting. There is nothing to lose with the system and it only spreads positivity.

Chermorg4 votes

People who don't reform by a permanent ban are, for the most part, not interested in reforming.

They will act the part for as long as it takes to get their account back. And then the act is over.

Mordius1 votes

{quoted}

People who don't reform by a permanent ban are, for the most part, not interested in reforming.

They will act the part for as long as it takes to get their account back. And then the act is over.

And then they'll get permanently banned again, and they won't get a third chance. Seems pretty fair.

But you'll say "Why didn't they get the hint the first time"

People change dude.

Chermorg4 votes

Riot has decided that the permanent ban comes after all the chances they're willing to give.

A permanent ban is not issued on one offense. They already have had multiple chances to reform. A permanent ban is Riot's way of saying "We don't want you here anymore, you've exhausted our patience".

Thee Pie Man1 votes

Given that most perma-bans are the result of multiple warnings. If they were going to "change" then why not the first few times, why give them ANOTHER opportunity if the first ones didn't work? I'm sure Riot is on your side and believe people change, and I'm sure there are people that never get perma-banned after getting restrictions/lighter bans which is why they GIVE chances in the first place. However you're basically saying:

"Why should they get punished for breaking the rules and not get another chance?"

Can you give me any circumstance where giving a person another chance to not mess up after they had several chances (This is important) leads to a better outcome? I feel like if they've already had additional chances then the likelihood if any is going to be way lower than those that reform after their first or second restriction/light ban in the first place. Which is also saying that everyone shouldn't care about losing their account once because they can just work to get it back again if they really want it which I feel encourages people to be as toxic as they want their first go around, because the consequences can literally be negated by the system you're suggesting.

Annotation1 votes

People make mistakes. It takes a long time for your honor level to increase which means your punishment levels stay the same. The punishments range from 10 chats -> 25 chats -> 2 weeks -> perm. If a player is having a rough month, or maybe still a child, or something happened, the range of all those happening at once are high. Punishment levels don't decrease for a while. The permanent ban could have happened in a spree. There are many possible reasons as to what could have happened but in the end they made a mistake.

Thee Pie Man1 votes

So you can't give me the scenario that I asked for?

People do make mistakes, but there's plenty of people that never flame or hurt their team mates, and these people we're talking about do so to such an excessive degree that they got perma-banned for it. That's more than just making some mistakes, that's a pile of mistakes, and they aren't even MISTAKES! Being a child doesn't excuse a person from hurting other people. Juvie is basically "kid jail" children have to face consequences of their actions too.

The game has a ToS, we all agree each and every time it's updated, and each and every time we sign up for an account. People have complete control over themselves and their fingers. This isn't about mistakes but willful actions persons take against other players that are more often than not very malicious in content and hurt other people in the game which is not acceptable or alright. You're basically saying these people should get a free pass because everyone makes mistakes, the difference is these people didn't learn anything from their mistakes, they continued making them because they didn't care until it got to where it was.

Annotation1 votes

You realize that several chances can fly by very quick. In the spur of a moment, it takes a long time for punishment levels to reset to normal. In a brief period things can go extremely downhill and they mess up. It's happened to me. I played this game years ago during highschool stressed out with IB exams and college, i messed up big time. I was stressed out, lashed out, I was emotionally unstable at the time and my punishments flew by real quick. However its been 4 years now. I am an adult, I've grown as a person and matured. You just need 3 strikes and you can be permabanned within 2 weeks. Its that easy if you were vulnerable. They can get a pass, but its definitely not free because it isnt easy.

People not caring about their accounts getting banned also doesnt make sense. People want season rewards, alot of people rank. Getting permabanned basically means you are illegible to play on your account for basically a whole year. Nobody wants that. Its not a get level 20 in 1 week with 0 to no learning or reflection in the process and ur unbanned for free. Its a "show that you have reformed from the past by being consistently honorable for 8 months."

Thee Pie Man1 votes

You realize that those several chances are there to protect other players, not to reform the person in general, right? There's a reason they don't get more breathing room. They have a limited number of chances to prove they can still be a responsible and positive part of the community. You're saying despite the fact they ruined people's games, despite hurting other individuals, they should get another chance after the final judgement call and I disagree.

Alright, it's sharing time? Okay, I've been playing since season 1, my sister had cancer when I was 10 and fought with it for 3 years, survived but still had treatments and regular checkups for 4 additional years. Due to the medical bills my family had to declare bankruptcy due to a debt of over 500k because at the time cancer treatments were still new and chemo had only a 11% seen survival chance, we took it and we lucked out there. However those events traumatized my sister and she's on depression meds and is a completely germ-a-phobe to the point where she will wash her hands red if she touches something she suspects had something nasty on it. During the latter part of this I played League and enjoyed myself with silly things like FoN mundo, Ashe mid with flash teleport, etc etc. Went through all the meta shifts and etc. I never flamed a single person nor got into verbal problems with anyone.

My highschool life was also stressful because I was in and out of school because the only hospital that was able to treat the cancer was in a city 3 and ahalf hours by car and down a mountain from where we lived, and I couldn't be left at home because my mum would worry. I had a girlfriend, things were looking up for awhile however we noticed lay offs at my father's work and he had to transfer down to another location, and my sister's blood pressure was up anyways and doctors said it could be the altitude so we decided to move. I lost my girlfriend a few months later because she decided to ghost me. She had her own problems- I still never raged in League of Legends. After all this stress and things settled down my father decided to pull the ultimate dick move and cheat on my mum. I found out and I was the one who had to tell her about it, he tried to deny it but there was tons of evidence online and shit. He cheated on my mum with tons of woman on a game called "second life" so yeah that was fun- he also told me I'd never amount to anything on the day he left. I still never flamed in League of Legends.

Finally with all the pressures of my dad leaving I had to drop out of college to watch my disabled brother and look for a job which I've still yet to find and still am tasked with watching my brother while my mum does builds in games and gets paid money and tutors English students because she's practically a savant, she almost got her college degree and only needed one more term but he fucked us bad by leaving all the bills and etc, he had quit his job and cashed out his 401k. Despite all these problems I never raged or hurt another individual in League of Legends or real life.

There's about 20 other things I could add to this list, but I think you get my point. You ALWAYS have the choice to be the better person and instead you chose at the time to be toxic. Your reasons are just as irrelevant as my own.

If people cared about their accounts being perma-banned then they would not act the way they do continuously. Again this is a conscious choice. Just because you feel like you now deserve a second chance doesn't mean you should be granted one, and you definitely don't deserve a second chance. If you're reformed now, which by how you've been debating so far- not cussing me out or being overly combative- seems you are. Then great, I'm happy for you, but I don't think you deserve your account back, it's a punishment for a reason. And "permanent" as I'll reiterate once more. Is PERMANENT for a reason.

Annotation1 votes

But would you really act for 6months+ to reach honor 5 just to get your main account banned straight away again? Having the ability to reach honor level 5 consistently with no toxicity shows that you're reformed and ready. Going through a facade for months just to instantly ban your account again sounds unreasonable. I feel as though if they were able to get their account unbanned after the system, they wouldnt get it banned again.

Chermorg3 votes

I am not suggesting it would be straight away. However, time would return someone to their old ways in most of the times.

Someone who does not reform by a permanent ban is not interested in true reform. They're only interested in getting their money/time back.

Annotation1 votes

That doesnt speak for the whole league of legends community. If you were able to stay consistent through honor 5, you are able to do it on your main as well. The system builds up a good fundamental so the player can also learn. People learn and grow as well, not everybody is just straight up toxic. People make mistakes, people have bad moments in their life, things happen. If they do end up getting their account banned again then its final. It's hard to reach that point, but if it gets to it they are still on thin ice. The system helps a lot of different types of people.

Chermorg3 votes

You may be confident you can. But statistics have shown that for every one of you that would do that, there's 20 others who'd also be eligible for this honor challenge that would not only fail, but likely do so in a way that ruins multiple other games before they're caught.

People already get a 14 day ban as a final warning. That is their final chance. Adding more chances does not increase success - it only increases number of games ruined before the eventual "permanent permanent ban".

Annotation1 votes

League of legends has an extremely large player base that changes rapidly. If the player was eligible for the honor challenge but failed and made the game horrible for other players, chances are he could just do that with a brand new account he creates. There are whats ifs, but I would like riot to test a larger sample size with a more rigorous task. The statistics were long ago and since that time many people have aged and grown up. Things could be different, they are all what ifs. I believe that this still has minimal downsides and in the end can actually help alot more.

Chermorg1 votes

There is no reason to test it again when the probable and expected result based on evidence is known toxic players ruining more games.

KVbqbFsC8e2 votes

Use paragraphs. It will make your post much easier to read.

Bettnachleger2 votes

A new appeal system would truly make a difference for the league of legends community and it would spread a lot of positivity.

Bullshit. The only thing you care about is your account.

Kei1431 votes

I have no idea what you just wrote. That wall of text is so stronk.

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