Boards›Player Behavior

Flawed Punishment System is Flawed

BlueWaterBelow··2 votes·1,680 views

Alright, anyone else had really poor experiences and gotten chat restrictions or worse they sincerely felt they did not deserve? I just played a game where I only made 2 comments. The first (I was the Jungler) I went bot lane, pinged I was coming. We had a pretty good position, both my team mates were at full health, it was a good engage. But rather than go in with me, the laners back off and I wound up fighting 1v2 and died. I didn't flame, I DID comment in chat along the lines of "guys, why did you not help me out, that was an easy double", they retorted, I made a comment to be ready the next go round, and that was it.

A few minutes later, I attempted Dragon. I pinged for assistance, as our Support Sona was sitting bot lane and the enemy team was not there with her. I pinged a few more times, still no response, she sat bot and farmed. After the dragon, which went off without interference, I asked, (rightfully in my opinion) why Sona hadnt helped out. Immediately, this was meant with flaming from Mid for "calling her out", and our adc and sona then proceeded to flame me actively the rest of the ENTIRE game for those two comments, saying I was incompetent, insulting me repeatedly, telling me I needed to grow up, it just didn't end from start to finish. After the game, go figure, all three of them reported me and I got a chat restriction. I even took the time to go back over the chat on the notification, those two comments were the ONLY things I said and it sent them into attacks on me.

Situations like this have happened before, repeatedly. Now I'm not going to claim I've never had a toxic game before, I think anyone who claims that is lying frankly, but 9 times out of 10, it's because of a bs situation like this, where I literally do nothing other than make a suggestion or ask for help, a premade or some such takes offense, spend the ENTIRE Game flaming and acting toxic, then I get the punishment. And frankly submitting any ticket seems pointless, it seems like no matter how many positive games you have if you have a negative one anywhere on the list it gets used to justify the restriction in these situations. Any thoughts? Opinions?

27 Comments

ModThe Djinn5 votes

{quoted}Alright, anyone else had really poor experiences and gotten chat restrictions or worse they sincerely felt they did not deserve?

Do you have your chat logs? I'd be happy to help you figure out whether this is an instance where you should talk to Player Support, or whether there is behavior here that you may be missing.

Basically, one or two toxic games here and there can get you punished, based on how much toxicity is in your one or two games.

BlueWaterBelow1 votes

Since I haven't played out the chat restriction I still have access to the log, I just don't know how to copy it over. Also it records mine but not others, in case that matters.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}

Since I haven't played out the chat restriction I still have access to the log, I just don't know how to copy it over. Also it records mine but not others, in case that matters.

You should be able to simply highlight it and copy/paste. It only showing yours is intentional though -- each player is judged on his or her behavior, because provocation is not considered an acceptable excuse to violate the rules.

BlueWaterBelow1 votes

Game 1 Pre-Game BlueWaterBelow: Good call BlueWaterBelow: Fiora or Garen jg? In-Game BlueWaterBelow: why tho BlueWaterBelow: fair enough BlueWaterBelow: guys, wtf BlueWaterBelow: yall were both at full health, that was an easy double BlueWaterBelow: it wasnt even under turret omfg BlueWaterBelow: sona, why did you not help drag BlueWaterBelow: No, I think thats afair question BlueWaterBelow: She sat in lane by herself BlueWaterBelow: I did, MULTIPLE times BlueWaterBelow: Have some map awareness BlueWaterBelow: lol yes I did. Scroll up. BlueWaterBelow: The gank I attempted bot and pinged my inc, you sat back and let me die. So no, im not guna keep coming back BlueWaterBelow: says grow up a bit leaves the game because tilted BlueWaterBelow: 2 people left simultaneously. Made the assumption. BlueWaterBelow: Actually I do know how to ult, but keep coming up with excuses BlueWaterBelow: Vayne did... BlueWaterBelow: Into context? "you dont even know how to use ult" BlueWaterBelow: Is every teenager laying this games first instinct to say the other person is younger than them? BlueWaterBelow: Ive met people older then me less mature, and younge rpeople more mature, who tf cares BlueWaterBelow: You're condescending to someone on a video game lol dont talk to me about growing up BlueWaterBelow: Literally all I did was asked to be backe dup on ganks BlueWaterBelow: Or a jungler who asked their laners to back him up when he ganked BlueWaterBelow: Ahri, you are not doing well enough to be critisizing anyone lol BlueWaterBelow: i copy pasted your words vayne haha BlueWaterBelow: Ahri, you are 3/9 BlueWaterBelow: Yep, im the child lol BlueWaterBelow: Youre laning against a leblanc bb BlueWaterBelow: I ganked twice and she dashed out both times BlueWaterBelow: Everythig I said has been perfectly logical... BlueWaterBelow: no, my first and only complaint was a gank bot i pinged for, we had an easy position, and yall didnt respond BlueWaterBelow: Yall took that and have been flaming me ever since BlueWaterBelow: That was the first thing I said lol BlueWaterBelow: I also havent complained since, yall have been flaming me and calling my responses toxic BlueWaterBelow: Vaynbe, I have pinged every action this entire game BlueWaterBelow: I dont mind admitting when I miss a ping, but I didnt. BlueWaterBelow: I also have to appreciate that Im the one yall chose to flame, when all this ahri has done is say "we have anoc" over and over

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

yall

ModThe Djinn2 votes

BlueWaterBelow: Have some map awareness BlueWaterBelow: you sat back and let me die BlueWaterBelow: says grow up a bit leaves the game because tilted BlueWaterBelow: Actually I do know how to ult, but keep coming up with excuses BlueWaterBelow: Is every teenager laying this games first instinct to say the other person is younger than them? BlueWaterBelow: You're condescending to someone on a video game lol dont talk to me about growing up BlueWaterBelow: Ahri, you are not doing well enough to be critisizing anyone lol BlueWaterBelow: Ahri, you are 3/9 BlueWaterBelow: Yep, im the child lol

So I can relate to your frustration, but this sort of chat doesn't help anything, creates a negative environment, is insulting/condescending, and is definitely what got you in trouble. The best thing to do when being antagonized is either to mute them or to simply respond politely/neutrally and carry on playing the game.

BlueWaterBelow1 votes

You can't be serious, I did not insult anyone, every comment above was directly responsive to an insult being hurled at me by 3 of my 4 team mates. Additionally, since I keep hearing over and over Riot doesn't manually hand out restrictions, that to me implies that the chat wouldn't be involved and it was the 3 against 1 that got me punished, which wouldn't change regardless. And if the solution is "just don't communicate" then again, there needs to be a better system. This is a 5 person game, you can't just not communicate, especially if you want to do better. The better half of that chat was just trying to actively acknowledge I was being flamed, pointing out the kda of one of the people flaming is the only expressly negative things I said and if that's ban worthy, that is a SERIOUS problem with me, I don't care if the game is going well or not people do that CONSTANTLY.

ModThe Djinn6 votes

{quoted}And if the solution is "just don't communicate" then again, there needs to be a better system.

The solution isn't "don't communicate" -- it's "mute the offending players or respond politely/neutrally."

As opposed tho this, which is all rather passive-aggressive psuedo-insults.

BlueWaterBelow: Yep, im the child lol BlueWaterBelow: Ahri, you are not doing well enough to be critisizing anyone lol BlueWaterBelow: Actually I do know how to ult, but keep coming up with excuses BlueWaterBelow: Is every teenager laying this games first instinct to say the other person is younger than them? BlueWaterBelow: You're condescending to someone on a video game lol dont talk to me about growing up

BlueWaterBelow1 votes

I'm not trying to be belligerent, nor do I intend to be whining. But that's not fair. Every single one of those comments has no context without a clearly more direct insult preceding it. You're still telling me that even though I was aggressively flamed, I deserve a restriction, not for actively flaming back, but for responding "passive-aggressively with pseudo-insults". How is this not considered a problem?! I sent the full chat log, I did not insult anyone I literally just asked why I wasn't receiving help. I get punished and they don't, and I'm being told it's my fault? Seriously wtaf is wrong with this games community.

ModThe Djinn5 votes

{quoted}Every single one of those comments has no context without a clearly more direct insult preceding it.

I'm not saying the other parties don't deserve points towards punishment themselves (likely more than you acquired -- whether or not that results in a punishment for them depends on their own behavioral history). I'm simply informing you what behavior of yours is not okay, as you do not get a free pass to behavior improperly just because someone else was behaving worse.

You're still telling me that even though I was aggressively flamed, I deserve a restriction...

I am telling you that your behavior was problematic, and, if it triggered a punishment, then the system has seen enough of a trend of behavior that you earned enough points to accrue a punishment.

Aekami1 votes

While I don't agree with this specific case, I do think you have the right not to let people step on you but regardless, this statement is true :

the system has seen enough of a trend of behavior that you earned enough points to accrue a punishment.

You only get sanctions after a lot of reports it's not just one or two bad games, it's dozen of them most of the time. So the sanction is deserved overall, but the event triggering it was wrong.

Kei1431 votes

It's not what you say.

It's what they hear.

ZackTheWaffleMan3 votes

inhales

#CHAT LOGS

Zombie Gerbil3 votes

Cool. Didn't read a bit of that.

Where's the chat-log? Then the board will be interested in a discussion. Till then, Perfect System is Perfect.

Does its job to the letter.

SweetRainTv2 votes

BlueWaterBelow: Yep, im the child lol

child confirmed [sg-kiko]

RxO Carmada1 votes

Honestly, I think it's hilarious that Riot ignores tickets reporting players. I had this one guy who told me he was going to come to my house and cut off all my fingers and I submitted a ticket to Riot their response was somewhere along the lines of. "While we appreciate you reporting him the IFS handles that, tough luck." It's pretty funny how terrible they handle their player behaviour teams.

EDIT: Might be worth mentioning that I took a picture of what he said in post-game lobby (which is where he said it) and put it in the ticket.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=RxO Carmada,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EEXP2B97,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-04T23:54:59.323+0000)I submitted a ticket to Riot their response was somewhere along the lines of. "While we appreciate you reporting him the IFS handles that, tough luck."

That's how it works though -- Riot support doesn't usually manually issue suspensions, because that player already had that game count against him/her once you reported them. Those points towards a punishment (or that punishment) is already on their account.

BlueWaterBelow1 votes

Does a personally issued threat, even if it doesn't amount to anything, just not matter? I understand his frustration here, because all people ever seem to hear is "Riot doesnt stop that", well wtf DO they stop?

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}Does a personally issued threat, even if it doesn't amount to anything, just not matter? I understand his frustration here, because all people ever seem to hear is "Riot doesnt stop that", well wtf DO they stop?

The system does catch that sort of thing though, and Riot support also doesn't tell you when they take action against a specific account based on a ticket, for privacy policy reasons. They catch a LOT of things, include threats, but not all of it is acknowledged by one of those pop-up messages.

Kei1431 votes

The system punishes based on consistency x severity.

So even if that specific game didn't punish them, it is kept in their behavioral history and that case will be included as part of the review next time they get reviewed.

Once the toxics gain a couple of toxic games under the belt and crosses the behavioral threshold, they get punished.

Modi1 votes

If you feel a threat is real and feel your life to be in danger, contact the police. Making death threats is against the law in most jurisdictions.

Aekami1 votes

I read the logs you posted, unless they are edited, I think you tilted but there should not be any sanction to that.

But what you have to understand is that riot does not care and prefer to rely on a wacky moderation system rather than a moderation system with ... moderators. You know, actual living people who understand what is going on, not an automated system triggered by some sentences or words.

But creating a better system costs money, and that doesn't bring money once it's done. Unlike the LCS, for that one riot has millions. But it brings money.

So for this specific instance, from your logs, you are not to blame. You answered as anyone would have, you tilted as anyone would have. Regardless what people try to say in this thread, you acted humanly, you can safely ignore all those who will blame you for not ignoring your team's toxicity. Yes it would have been better to mute them and forget, however you are not a robot and should not try to act as one.

Aneirin2 votes

You know, actual living people who understand what is going on, not an automated system triggered by some sentences or words.

Because one can be done in minutes by AI, and one would need several thousand people working full-time. Wonder which one makes more sense financially?

Aekami1 votes

I know, that's what I said a bit later, an improvement to the system would cost money, which is why Riot doesn't do it. I don't quite get your point ?

Also volunteers could do it. The same way the Boards are moderated. It does require some investments when you have to "hire" these people, but that asides once it's set up it could work by itself.

Aneirin3 votes

Sounds like the old tribunal that didn't work. In any case you'd still need many thousands of volunteers and there's no guarantee they'll run the system the way Riot wants.

Aekami1 votes

The old tribunal had a lot of problems though. For instance almost anyone could take part in it. What I suggest is recruiting moderators, just like you'd do for a job, and go from there. You'd probably still need someone to coordinate them, to be the "boss" who checks on them and tells them what they want, but that's not a lot of investment from Riot. You only need one boss, regardless how many volunteers there is.

The old tribunal had no proper organisation, no proper person in charge, no goal no actual guidelines (Actually there was, but without supervision, anyone could do anything they want anyway without consequences).

So in short, I suggest a structured team of volunteered moderators that follows the rules a "Rioter moderator" makes.

Aneirin2 votes

I could see that working if you could get enough volunteers, but I feel that the number you'd need to make it work properly would be infeasible. Happy to agree to disagree though; the idea has merit.

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