Boards›Player Behavior

Riot needs to chill and learn the difference between toxic and whats not

Darkmatter123123··2 votes·1,358 views

okay so i get that riot wants to weed out toxic players from the game. but they need to determine what is really toxic and whats not. like telling your team to kill yourself or calling them garbage trash and to uninstall is obviously toxic but i literally got punished because i was being harassed by my bot lane for not roaming into a 4v2 which they decided to fight for some reason (even though they had 3 heavy cc champs ganking bot) instead of falling back to the tower, after i got a bunch of flame from my ADC i literally only said to him was. "you are thinking with a bronze mentality." and later in the game when we grouped they were 1/9 i mentioned " wow another inting bot big surprise." this is not toxic i dont think. sure its a little derogatory but to get punishment for this while people are calling their team "inbred treefuckers" is pretty messed up. like i believe there is a huge difference between the two and they should be treated separately. l even spoke to riot and he literally said i was being mean and didnt think how it would make the adc feel. like were fucking adults aren't we? if you cannot take a little constructive criticism on the internet then why are you on it? like does everyone in league of legends really need a safe space because they are special snowflakes??? like can people grow up a little bit. i feel like the only way you can not get punished is by simply muting all players in the game and not talking at all because the slightest comment will get you in trouble. its messed up to say the least, riot really needs to focus on the real toxicity thats in most of the games (homophobic remarks, racism, death threats) like thats true toxicity. like they are literally taking away freedom of speech to protect little kids or people with the mentality of little kids when there are way more serious cases to be looked at.

69 Comments

Weathered5 votes

Please learn how Freedom of Speech applies before using it as an argument. They have every right to silence you.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

i didnt say anything harsh though i just told him to quit thinking at a lower elo level? how does mentioning freedom of speech claim ignorance. there should be a difference with being constructive with someone flaming you and you just telling them to go fuck them selves (which i did not say)

ModThe Djinn5 votes

{quoted}how does mentioning freedom of speech claim ignorance.

Just to address this point (and not to suggest ignorance, but simply to inform): Freedom of Speech applies specifically to the government's ability to censor speech. Private organizations are (and have always been) allowed to put restrictions on behavior within their property, be it real or virtual. Hence why if you, say, go shout slurs in your local Starbucks you will rapidly find yourself asked to leave and never return.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

i have never run into this in Canada maybe in the US its different. people say slurs all the time in my work and i cant say anything because freedom of expression in our charter protects them. now if they are being violent aggressive or threatening thats different but people are allowed to have personal opinions.

ModThe Djinn5 votes

{quoted}

i have never run into this in Canada maybe in the US its different. people say slurs all the time in my work and i cant say anything because freedom of expression in our charter protects them. now if they are being violent aggressive or threatening thats different but people are allowed to have personal opinions.

The same is true in the US -- you can't sue someone for using a word you don't like. But you don't have to continue to employee them, nor do you have to allow them in your venues if they're causing a disturbance. In short, Freedom of Speech does not equate to Freedom from Consequences of Speech.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

yeah but you cant fire someone in Canada for freedom of expression unless its conflicting with someone else human rights (racist remarks etc...) our human rights code actually protects people from being fired in that situation

Darkmatter1231231 votes

we also cant kick someone out of the store unless you were to do the same and invade someone else human rights which having your own opinion on a matter is not unless you are being racist or homophobic etc..

Darkmatter1231231 votes

you can be fired for any reason but if they fire you for freedom of expression that doesnt violate anothers human rights. it will be considered a wrongful dismissal and you could owe that employee compensation because firing them is considered a form of discrimation under the Human rights code unless there is just cause. someone having an opinion about something is not just cause unless that opinion is racist sexist or something similar. but if you simply sayi dont like this employees work ethic they work slow you cannot be fired for that legally. it will fall under wrongful dismissal. there was a girl who took safeway to human rights over this in my city they fired her becaus she was "annoying" and safeway then owed her 4 years of pay on top of compensation to her feelings dignity or selfrespect.

Chermorg3 votes

As I point out below, "freedom of expression" is not listed as one of the protected classes.

I would appreciate a source surrounding that case - many times the news media does not give the full story. Simply disliking an employee is not just cause for firing. An employee creating tension in the workforce with their "expression" generally is in cases I've seen.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

i know the girl who took them to human rights and i understand the human rights code since i did take Canadian law in school you can argue me all you want about it but the human rights code protects anyone who is discriminated against based on their creed : (a set of beliefs or aims that guide someone's actions.) as long as those beliefs don't discriminate another you are protected.

Chermorg3 votes

For someone who took law in school, you seem to have a very low grasp of English language and grammar.

What you know is heresay. I'm asking for a reputable source to substantiate your claims.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

what are you talking about? this is informal conversation. im not worried about punctuation or grammer lol all you have to do is look up the human rights code saskatchewanhumanrights.ca/how-to-file-a-complaint/the-sasaatchewan-human-rights-code. it states all the things that were used. and i know the person who it happened to?? it wasnt covered in the media its not hearsay she won her case in court and was awarded 4 years worth of pay. the reason for her dismissal was because she was "annoying" in the managers eyes. like what reputable source are you looking for there was no media coverage on it??

Chermorg2 votes

I'm not going to argue this with you.

I'll just mention that under a reading of the rule as on the website linked, being fired for being "annoying" is not protected. The law protects people from being fired based on their: "disability, age (18 or more), religion or religious creed, family status, marital status, sex, sexual orientation, race or perceived race, nationality, place of origin, ancestry, colour, receipt of public assistance, and gender identity". Considering being annoying doesn't fall under any of those, the human rights laws do not apply.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

it does actually it would be fall under disability, even if she was a drug addict she would be covered under disability, or she could claim it was because of her gender. either way she fought it and won

Darkmatter1231231 votes

pretty much anytime you are singled out by you are employer and fired without just cause (theft, continuous breach of conduct after following vigorous progressive discipline procedures , frequent absenteeism) you are protected by the human rights code. even if you are a drug addict if you miss work to go to rehab and your work fires you you can claim disability. there is no argument you are just wrong and grasping at straws because you have no idea how laws work.

Chermorg2 votes

I can find no legal source that says freedom of expression in Canada applies to employers.

Generally speaking, from what I read in a quick examination of Canadian labo[u]r laws, an employer can fire an employee for any reason so long as that reason is sound and given to the employee.

Your reference to the human rights code doesn't pan out - "freedom of expression" is not protected under the classes that are to be considered as discrimination.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and may very well be missing something, and so would appreciate references to the code if I'm incorrect.

TheGhostButter2g2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9V04ikGp,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-02T02:20:13.256+0000)

Just to address this point (and not to suggest ignorance, but simply to inform): Freedom of Speech applies specifically to the government's ability to censor speech. Private organizations are (and have always been) allowed to put restrictions on behavior within their property, be it real or virtual. Hence why if you, say, go shout slurs in your local Starbucks you will rapidly find yourself asked to leave and never return.

While this is 100% completely true, and a valid point, don't forget that as customers we get to control who does and doesn't get our money. Riot may determine with ultimate authority what happens in respect to their property, but as consumers we ultimately decide if League of Legends lives or dies.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

yeah and if league doesn't focus more on real toxicity and less on people having opinions all that will be left is the toxic people that harass people in lobby and in game or the inters that ruin the game worse than someone trying to be nice and have his own personal opinion on the matter.

Weathered1 votes

I didn't say you were ignorant. I just want people to understand how freedom of speech works, there are posts every day on this board yelling about it (you weren't yelling, I know) and it just gets tiring trying to explain to people that it doesn't apply.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

i wasnt talking to you another guy called me ignorant

Weathered1 votes

You direct replied to my post saying how does FoS claim ignorance, sorry I was confused.

archerno13 votes

Chat logs?

Also mentioning freedom of speech just shows how ignorant u are

Darkmatter1231231 votes

this exactly proves my point. like you are being more toxic than i was by insulting me... according to riot rules i could report you for saying that if it were in game and you would get punished because it "hurt my feelings"

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

this exactly proves my point. like you are being more toxic than i was by insulting me... according to riot rules i could report you for saying that if it were in game and you would get punished because it "hurt my feelings"

Im not insulting you. Im pointing out that you dont know what freedom of speech means. If i come to your hpuse, tell you that your cat is ugly and you tell me to leave your house, do i have right to stay on your property based on freedom of speech? No i dont. This is private property, Riot can kick you out for things you say, but you cant be criminally charged for those things you say. See the difference?

Darkmatter1231231 votes

calling me ignorant is an insult if you cant see that then need to inform yourself on what an insult is. in Canada you have every right to your opinion our charter protects that. i could remove you from my property if i feel like you are tresspassing but i cant force you to not have an opinion thats your right

Darkmatter1231231 votes

like i didnt call this guy bronze trash or garabage trash or anything i simply said he was thinking with a bronze mentality ( which is the nicest way possible i could get my point across to him) if there is another way i could maybe do that then please enlighten me

ModPrandine3 votes

If you want to have a discussion and/or prove that what you say is true then please post your chat logs in their full unedited entirety. We often get threads like these where people claim that they were punished for "only saying x" when in reality it was often more than that, hence the need for chat logs.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

Darkmatter123123: TALONS GONNA ROAM Darkmatter123123: i will ping but be ready for it Darkmatter123123: dont fight him if he comes bot you have a leo Darkmatter123123: like expect the 4 man bot ganks Darkmatter123123: called it 4 man bot Darkmatter123123: cuz it was gone Darkmatter123123: yes it was Darkmatter123123: they had jg there Darkmatter123123: we didnt Darkmatter123123: so Darkmatter123123: rip Darkmatter123123: told you Darkmatter123123: wtf you talking about Darkmatter123123: i have ben rotataing Darkmatter123123: yes i have? Darkmatter123123: i have been bot and top Darkmatter123123: im not even silver Darkmatter123123: img old Darkmatter123123: why overstay Darkmatter123123: she jumped over wall Darkmatter123123: like we wont the fight and then you go in and fee Darkmatter123123: no we won till you overstayed Darkmatter123123: till they all came back and killed you Darkmatter123123: how am i not Darkmatter123123: i never died to talon Darkmatter123123: i have been Darkmatter123123: hence hwy i have 5 assists... Darkmatter123123: yah cuz you keep diving and then we clean up ur mess Darkmatter123123: yah inting bot as usual Darkmatter123123: 11 deaths bot already Darkmatter123123: which is half our deaths Darkmatter123123: cuz you kep tryingt o fight him Darkmatter123123: in a 3v2 Darkmatter123123: 4v2 Darkmatter123123: dude u run Darkmatter123123: they ahve too much cc Darkmatter123123: even in a 4v3 if i roam Darkmatter123123: they win Darkmatter123123: they have a leo and gragas Darkmatter123123: that knows if you jsut dotn try to fighta 4v2 Darkmatter123123: corki wants me to a roam in to a 4v3 Darkmatter123123: lol Darkmatter123123: with 2 heavy cc champs on the enemy Darkmatter123123: like is this not gold Darkmatter123123: cuz you all acting pretty bronze

Darkmatter1231231 votes

i talked to riot and he said the words like bronze are pretty much like swears (even though 90% of league players are bronze-silver elo) and mentioning someone is inting when they are inting is bannable which makes no sense.

Drugoth1 votes

So were they really intentionally feeding or were they just sucking?

There is a very distinct difference and I want to make sure you understand that.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

it was 11 mins into the game... there are death timers in place like how is that humanly possibly unless you are intending to feed?

ModPrandine2 votes

{quoted}

Darkmatter123123: TALONS GONNA ROAM Darkmatter123123: i will ping but be ready for it Darkmatter123123: dont fight him if he comes bot you have a leo Darkmatter123123: like expect the 4 man bot ganks Darkmatter123123: called it 4 man bot Darkmatter123123: cuz it was gone Darkmatter123123: yes it was Darkmatter123123: they had jg there Darkmatter123123: we didnt Darkmatter123123: so Darkmatter123123: rip Darkmatter123123: told you Darkmatter123123: wtf you talking about Darkmatter123123: i have ben rotataing Darkmatter123123: yes i have? Darkmatter123123: i have been bot and top Darkmatter123123: im not even silver Darkmatter123123: img old Darkmatter123123: why overstay Darkmatter123123: she jumped over wall Darkmatter123123: like we wont the fight and then you go in and fee Darkmatter123123: no we won till you overstayed Darkmatter123123: till they all came back and killed you Darkmatter123123: how am i not Darkmatter123123: i never died to talon Darkmatter123123: i have been Darkmatter123123: hence hwy i have 5 assists... Darkmatter123123: yah cuz you keep diving and then we clean up ur mess ** Darkmatter123123: yah inting bot as usual** Darkmatter123123: 11 deaths bot already Darkmatter123123: which is half our deaths Darkmatter123123: cuz you kep tryingt o fight him Darkmatter123123: in a 3v2 Darkmatter123123: 4v2 Darkmatter123123: dude u run Darkmatter123123: they ahve too much cc Darkmatter123123: even in a 4v3 if i roam Darkmatter123123: they win Darkmatter123123: they have a leo and gragas Darkmatter123123: that knows if you jsut dotn try to fighta 4v2 Darkmatter123123: corki wants me to a roam in to a 4v3 Darkmatter123123: lol Darkmatter123123: with 2 heavy cc champs on the enemy Darkmatter123123: like is this not gold Darkmatter123123: cuz you all acting pretty bronze

Is this everything? If this is then aside from the comments I bolded this is pretty tame and is worth maybe a warning or a chat restriction at most. It's okay to be frustrated with your teammates (we all get them at times) but it's not okay to take it out on them with passive-aggressive comments and insults. Next time if people are not listening to your advice then just forget about it and focus on your own game instead of on theirs, and especially don't resort to insults and name-calling when people are acting up and/or performing poorly.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

like i said im going to just mute my team every game since you literally cant say anything other tahn gj which i wont say to people like this

ModPrandine2 votes

{quoted}

like i said im going to just mute my team every game since you literally cant say anything other tahn gj which i wont say to people like this

If that's what you have to do to avoid lashing out at people in chat then so be it. Just know that as long as you're using chat to be neutral or positive you won't be punished for chat related offenses.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

its just stupid you cant be adults in this game because ppl are too god damn sensitive. yet you can call ppl inbred treefuckers and nothing happens because they are immature and don't care when you are actually toxic but if you say something constructive they just lose their minds. its why they need an age limit in this game weed out all the 12-14 year olds that don't understand anything about map control or wave control or focusing objectives they literally run around playing team death match picking horrible fights in unwarded positions

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

{quoted}

Is this everything? If this is then aside from the comments I bolded this is pretty tame and is worth maybe a warning or a chat restriction at most.

The problem with Riots system is that anything that is worthy of a "warning" or "chat restriction" is also worthy of a permaban.

Drugoth1 votes

Why Not? The permaban is the end of the line that gives the preceding warnings dire implications.

YerroFever1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9V04ikGp,comment-id=0004000000010001,timestamp=2017-09-02T05:15:57.345+0000)

The problem with Riots system is that anything that is worthy of a "warning" or "chat restriction" is also worthy of a permaban.

No, anything worthy of a chat restriction or a temp ban is only worthy of a permaban if the person doesn't learn their lesson after repeated previous punishments.

Drugoth2 votes

{quoted} "you are thinking with a bronze mentality." "wow another inting bot big surprise."

"if you cannot take a little constructive criticism"

"little constructive criticism"

"constructive criticism"

"constructive criticism..."

######"constructive criticism..."

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/018/489/nick-young-confused-face-300x256_nqlyaa.jpg

Darkmatter1231231 votes

what are you confused about?? i didn't swear at them. i didn't use any racist homophobic or sexist comments i stated blatant truths about the game. like if i would have been like " YOU ARE FUCKING GARBAGE TRASH WHY DO YOU PLAY THIS GAME UNINSTALL" that's what i see as toxic. but if you cant say anything negative at all for people that obviously have no intention of winning or trying to improve their game-play then there is something wrong. i shouldn't have to be "gj you will get them next time yo dive 4v2 with 2-3 level disadvantage." how will that improve his game-play if i am clearly lying to him just to protect his "feelings". if he gets a wake up call and goes oh shit maybe i should play safe and farm up cuz im twitch and can carry a late game no problem. then he can improve his game-play instead of flaming me for not jumping into a highly disadvantaged fight he shouldn't even be diving on. if he just rages because of my super mild like remark then there is a problem with his maturity level that should not be protected. or he will never mature past that point and most likely need some sort of anger management in real life to learn how to deal with real life situations. imagine if he was working and his boss yelling at him to pick up the slack and he rages on his boss. hes gonna get progressive disciplined not the boss. its how it should work in league as well.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

yes? thats what constructive criticism is. its the cold blunt truth to snap someone back into reality and out of their fucking "im special" bubble.

Blutseuche2 votes

They dont need to.

You need to learn though, otherwise they are allowed to ban you and i would agree with their decision.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

did you even see my chat log. there was nothing toxic. i have friends that say racist homophobic and sexist remarks every single game and they get no punishment yet the moment i call my team bronze im like super toxic lol makes no sense at all.

Blutseuche2 votes

Not toxic? Constantly arguing and calling out your teammates. They prolly know they play bad, no reason to also start an argument. Idc about your friends that are racist, they do get banned fast enough.

Saying that they do worse things is like saying, you just stabbed an old woman once, instead of kiling her, so why are you getting catched, while your friends that killed her get to run away for a few more days?

Darkmatter1231231 votes

how was i arguing with my team. bot lane was the one bitching at me... the only thing is you can only see what i said in the logs and not all the shit he was saying.

Blutseuche1 votes

Darkmatter123123: told you Darkmatter123123: wtf you talking about Darkmatter123123: i have ben rotataing Darkmatter123123: yes i have? Darkmatter123123: i have been bot and top Darkmatter123123: im not even silver Darkmatter123123: img old Darkmatter123123: why overstay Darkmatter123123: she jumped over wall Darkmatter123123: like we wont the fight and then you go in and fee Darkmatter123123: no we won till you overstayed

You TOTALLY dont waste your time arguing with people. You absolutely didnt talk to them and ignored them. /s

Also, i dont fucking care what others said. it only matters what you said, if you cant accept it, you will continue getting punishments.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

so i shouldnt try to give ppl tips so they get better?? makes sense. or point out that i have been rotating hes just too toxic and tilted to notice??

Blutseuche1 votes

Yes.

Roaming Noman1 votes

Anything that isn't completely and obviously (even to stupid people) positive, Riot considers toxic. It's cancerous dude.

Darkmatter1231231 votes

and that is wrong. like i said you literally have to mute your whole team every game or just get punished

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