Boards›Player Behavior

I got banned for saying stuff

BrownVsBoard··18 votes·3,895 views
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/264960016140730368/392138293137113088/Not_like_this_man.png

I try to be a nice league player. I'm not toxic. But today when I played with my friends in a premade team, a friend told me to say neck yourself 3 times because we were playing around and he was pretending to be my leader. I said neck yourself twice and my other friends told me that that would get me banned. I stopped and said "i'm jk" and "pls" There's no reason for me to be mad at my team. After the match he reported me. I got a 14 day ban immediately. I've never been chat restricted or banned. Like I get it that you guys are trying to crack down on toxic teammates, but in my case I was banned for saying something that I was told to say to my 5 man team that isn't directed towards anyone. I didn't know that it was that bad when I was saying it. Can someone review my situation and help me out.

Update, I went and asked the four other people I played with, they didn't report me. No one reported me on my team and I said it in team chat

110 Comments

Rester15 votes

Anything suggesting suicide is a zero-tolerance with Riot. You literally took the bait from your friend and he knew you'd get banned for it.

I would find new friends, any friend like that isn't a friend. They're just an asshole.

SeductiveCelery6 votes

neck yourself literally is used as a term "go slap ur neck you made a dumb decision" or more commonly used as "thats a neck"

I can say that I've never heard in the context of suicide and probably never will.

and thats the case if it hadn't been a bait ban.

bait banning is an instant perma on the bait banners acc

NiamhNyx11 votes

{quoted}

neck yourself literally is used as a term "go slap ur neck you made a dumb decision" or more commonly used as "thats a neck"

I can say that I've never heard in the context of suicide and probably never will.

and thats the case if it hadn't been a bait ban.

bait banning is an instant perma on the bait banners acc

"Neck Yourself" is reference to commit suicide by hanging one self. Or at least around where I live it is.

ModUlanopo13 votes

"Go neck yourself" is considered the same as "kill yourself."

Troll for Trump6 votes

Because Riot never takes things into context. Wonderful 0 tolerance systems.

ModUlanopo7 votes

That's kind of the result of prioritizing fighting toxicity. The rare exception is easily fixed via support ticket, as we've seen many times.

I'm curious how you think the system could be improved.

BrownVsBoard3 votes

Riot should restart the tribunal system. A jury of sorts would make it much easier to take the punishment. Rather than a bot dishing out punishments for keywords.

General Esdeath 3 votes

Or...or...don't say it

3 meo3 votes

How is that relevant? People are going to say things. That is a fact.

He is talking about how to deal with it.

General Esdeath 2 votes

Yeah because tribunal worked so well in the past. Why do we need someone to think "Hmm, is it right for him to tell someone to kill themselves over a game?" when 99% of people will say he's wrong?

3 meo1 votes

There's a difference between attempting to seriously make someone kill themselves and someone just saying KYS as an insult.

A person could see this.

Obviously one deserves a harsher punishment.

A computer can't recognize those rare cases of extreme verbal assault pretty much.

Plus lumping everyone into the same boat has a lot of people being banned for silly things.

General Esdeath 2 votes

"as an insult"

and you chose kys because...? A person wouldn't be able to see this. If I told you "you're a toxic jackass" can you tell if I mean it or not? What silly things are people banned for? Using hate speech as a joke because "I use it with my friends irl all the time"?

3 meo1 votes

I didn't choose anything. You keep stating like I am doing this or supporting it.

It is something that happens...that is REALITY. You can't just say "and you choose this because..." that doesn't make it any less real. You are baffling.

And yes, a person can. You can tell by context ffs

Do i need to spell this out?

You really think when someone says KYS that they even csre about what you do? Every time someone tells you to f*** yourself do you think they're actually telling you to f*** yourself?

Obviously not. It's just an insult.

There is a clearly apparent difference between that and someone legitimately trying to cause harm. The much more extreme version would be the equivalent to online bullying that has actually ended and tragedy. That type of harassment does not equal the random comment of "KYS"

There are things that only human review can notice.

I have a feeling that trying to speak sense to you is hopeless though so I'm done attempting.

General Esdeath 1 votes

"How is that relevant? People are going to say things. That is a fact.

He is talking about how to deal with it."

So you're saying it's wrong but it's not wrong...makes sense to me.

General Esdeath 1 votes

That's like saying it's pointless to punish it then.

His solution was a poor one that failed and was removed and replaced with a better one.

There is no "jury" to think it's OK to tell someone to kill themself

Troll for Trump2 votes

First, get rid of 0 tolerance policy. Context is key. Riot has long held the stance of "context is unimportant." That's simply not true. Related to that:

Prioritize the causes of toxicity and not the symptoms.

Trolling/Inting, and punishing the incendiary player rather than the retaliator

Stop punishing people just for saying things without taking them into context. There's no such thing as a "toxic person." Everyone can just as often be toxic as they can be nice.

Toxicity always seems to start from one person and then grow out of control. What Riot suggests you to do right now is to just mute and keep playing. That doesn't solve the problem, that just bottles it up.

There won't be a system that will realistically deal with "game hostage" scenarios where you're forced to play with a incendiary player/troll for 15+ minutes.

What the system can do is take context into account and avoid punishing players who are merely getting tilted or angry at the incendiary player/troll. This cannot, unfortunately be done with an automated system, so it will never be implemented.

The only way for context to be taken into account is with humans, and that system will always be slower than automation.

Incendiary players, too, are toxic because of some outside factor angering/tilting them. The difference between them and retaliators is that retaliators will tend to become toxic in response to incendiary players, while incendiary players will become toxic due to incendiary players AND gameplay factors.

ModUlanopo2 votes

At the end of the day, "context is key" is an opinion, not a fact, and it's an opinion that is actually contradicted by the majority of the player base.

Similarly, "toxicity stems from trolling" is an opinion unsupported by any data. People are toxic for a wide variety of reasons, many of which stem from the privileged belief that League culture should permit it. If you think about it, by telling people they aren't responsible for their behavior - "they were triggered by trolling" - you're actually enabling toxicity.

As to your larger response, you've basically thrown your hands in the air and said that nothing works. By your lights, automated systems fail because they don't address what you consider to be the sole cause of toxicity and there simply isn't enough manpower to have humans reviewing all the reports in anything approaching a timely fashion.

I guess my question as to how you would improve the system remains unanswered.

Troll for Trump1 votes

At the end of the day, "context is key" is an opinion, not a fact, and it's an opinion that is actually contradicted by the majority of the player base.

The very interpretation of "toxicity" and "toxic" is opinion and not fact. To try and treat it as such is stupid.

Also, it's my opinion. I'm not speaking to represent everyone.

Similarly, "toxicity stems from trolling" is an opinion unsupported by any data.

Because there's no data to be gathered. Any "official" data we have is from Riot, and they don't keep track of it. Because they can't. As mentioned previously there's no automated way to deal with context.

If you think about it, by telling people they aren't responsible for their behavior - "they were triggered by trolling" - you're actually enabling toxicity.

I am, because that toxicity is fully justifiable. Always try to go for the source, and not the symptoms. Those people should try to restrain themselves from going over-the-top, but their anger and "toxicity" is justified. Riot disagrees with this.

As to your larger response, you've basically thrown your hands in the air and said that nothing works. By your lights, automated systems fail because they don't address what you consider to be the sole cause of toxicity and there simply isn't enough manpower to have humans reviewing all the reports in anything approaching a timely fashion.

I guess my question as to how you would improve the system remains unanswered.

Correct. The system is inherently flawed.

You aren't ever going to have a good, automated system that can judge human interaction.

ModUlanopo2 votes

I am, because that toxicity is fully justifiable.

Again, that's an opinion you're allowed to have, but it's not compatible with either Riot's policies or with what the community wants.

You keep trying to argue that we should permit more behavior because of this abstract idea you have. You may wish to consider that you're looking at this from an entirely irrelevant perspective. This is Riot's space, which means they have the authority - in every sense - to regulate it as they see fit. That they do so based on what the community wants is to their credit - and good business practice, to boot.

Correct. The system is inherently flawed.

You aren't ever going to have a good, automated system that can judge human interaction.

Well, they already have a "good" system, seeing as how most people are happy with it, when they think about it at all. You're missing how the system is effective when you focus on what you perceive as an irreparable failing. Behavior that drives away business - which is an objective definition of "toxic", by the way - is unwelcome regardless of its source and is never subject to justification.

At no point can anyone legitimately say "I called him a slew of racial and homophobic slurs because he was feeding". It's just not possible.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Again, that's an opinion you're allowed to have, but it's not compatible with either Riot's policies or with what the community wants.

And that's their opinion. I disagree with them, they disagree with me.

You keep trying to argue that we should permit more behavior because of this abstract idea you have. You may wish to consider that you're looking at this from an entirely irrelevant perspective. This is Riot's space, which means they have the authority - in every sense - to regulate it as they see fit. That they do so based on what the community wants is to their credit - and good business practice, to boot.

And that's why I've addressed Riot many times. I think Riot's stance is wrong. Riot are the ones enforcing this system from the Lyte days. I highly doubt the community is on board with it now. In the beginning (I mean really old, Tribunal days) the community could've been onboard, but ever since Lyte and co. took an active role by revamping the toxicity system, I really doubt they asked the community for input on every little thing.

It's probably something more like: Community: "there's too much toxicity in the game" Riot: "Ok"

Well, they already have a "good" system, seeing as how most people are happy with it, when they think about it at all.

Going to have to ask for stats on this one.

You're missing how the system is effective when you focus on what you perceive as an irreparable failing. Behavior that drives away business - which is an objective definition of "toxic", by the way - is unwelcome regardless of its source and is never subject to justification.

That is not the objective definition of toxic. That's a general business strategy.

Toxicity is a behavior that originates from people and varies case by case. It is something that everyone has, and is justifiable.

At no point can anyone legitimately say "I called him a slew of racial and homophobic slurs because he was feeding". It's just not possible.

That's a hyperbole; you don't need racial or homophobic slurs to be "classified" as toxic. You don't even need to even flame at anyone. Those are extreme cases.

Toxicity isn't as black-and-white and simple as many believe, if they just bothered to think about it at all.

ModUlanopo2 votes

And that's why I've addressed Riot many times. I think Riot's stance is wrong. Riot are the ones enforcing this system from the Lyte days. I highly doubt the community is on board with it now. In the beginning (I mean really old, Tribunal days) the community could've been onboard, but ever since Lyte and co. took an active role by revamping the toxicity system, I really doubt they asked the community for input on every little thing.

It's probably something more like: Community: "there's too much toxicity in the game" Riot: "Ok"

The change in how the IFS responds to "KYS" says you're wrong.

ModUlanopo1 votes

Toxicity isn't as black-and-white and simple as many believe, if they just bothered to think about it at all.

Let's try an experiment. Go to a restaurant and buy a double serving of some food you hate. Liver, Brussels sprouts, anything that makes you gag.

When you're done, I want you to describe the thought processes that went into disliking that food.

If you're being honest, you won't be able to. That's because organic emotional responses aren't planned, regardless of whether they're inherent or learned.

That is not the objective definition of toxic. That's a general business strategy.

It's the objective definition of toxic with regard to League. Everything else is subjective.

Which is the point, really. People react to things. If someone reacts to what they perceive as feeding with profanity and/or insults, it's understandable that their targets will respond negatively in turn. In most cases, that turns out to be "I don't care for that".

League has one of the lowest capture rates for a FTP game. They have to protect their paying customers, which in turn means punishing behavior that tends to drive people away. At no point is this ever about what toxicity means to society at large.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Let's try an experiment. Go to a restaurant and buy a double serving of some food you hate. Liver, Brussels sprouts, anything that makes you gag...

Ok, what's the moral of the story?

It's the objective definition of toxic with regard to League. Everything else is subjective...

It needs to be connected to society. Assuming toxicity is defined objectively as anything that drives away players, then Riot needs to find what drives away players. I highly doubt retaliation does.

What drives away players in that scenario would be profanity and racial slurs and whatnot. Although I would still personally disagree with it, it would be tolerable.

But I don't think people are driven away by retaliation. Everyone retaliates, because everyone gets angry. Riot employees, you, everyone on Boards, and everyone in game. Stats are needed, but stats cannot be obtained.

People can retaliate differently, but they will retaliate. Riot placing a block on retaliation and asking people to just mute and play the game is a bad practice that only builds up negativity, which needs to be vented.

If you see toxicity in the game, whether it be with words, inting, or trolling, are you going to absolutely stay quiet, and say or do nothing in response other than mute, report, and move on? I highly doubt that even you could do that every game.

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

My biggest issue with your argument is the lack of consideration for a legitimate bad player or someone who got out matched.

Many flamers/toxic people would assume they were inting when it could legitimately be a bad game or out skilled. Do these people really deserve to be berated, flamed, and accused of inting for a bad game?

Troll for Trump1 votes

By definition, trolls and inters aren't bad players.

That's another flaw of the current system, but it's something that will occur no matter what system it is. It's hard to identify trolls/inters from bad players.

It's a entirely separate issue, not related to the argument

HeyBigGuyHeyBudd1 votes

{quoted}

First, get rid of 0 tolerance policy. Context is key. Riot has long held the stance of "context is unimportant." That's simply not true. Related to that:

Prioritize the causes of toxicity and not the symptoms.

Trolling/Inting, and punishing the incendiary player rather than the retaliator

Stop punishing people just for saying things without taking them into context. There's no such thing as a "toxic person." Everyone can just as often be toxic as they can be nice.

Toxicity always seems to start from one person and then grow out of control. What Riot suggests you to do right now is to just mute and keep playing. That doesn't solve the problem, that just bottles it up.

There won't be a system that will realistically deal with "game hostage" scenarios where you're forced to play with a incendiary player/troll for 15+ minutes.

What the system can do is take context into account and avoid punishing players who are merely getting tilted or angry at the incendiary player/troll. This cannot, unfortunately be done with an automated system, so it will never be implemented.

The only way for context to be taken into account is with humans, and that system will always be slower than automation.

Incendiary players, too, are toxic because of some outside factor angering/tilting them. The difference between them and retaliators is that retaliators will tend to become toxic in response to incendiary players, while incendiary players will become toxic due to incendiary players AND gameplay factors.

Im really feeling this right now. Ive just made a post about this and Im searching through the threads to see if others share my viewpoint on toxicity and its context as ive had a slew of games that were characterized by either of the teams having an inter/feeder/teemo supporter/negative player on their team.

General Esdeath 4 votes

What context justifies telling someone to end their own life over a game

BrownVsBoard2 votes

It’s not directed towards anyone. It’s more of a “I bet you won’t do it because you’re a chicken” scenario.

I meant to type “I bet you won’t say it”

General Esdeath 2 votes

"haha I bet you won't kill yourself you chicken haha xDDD"

Man I'm glad I was born in 1995...

BrownVsBoard1 votes

5 man team on discord. “I bet you won’t say neck yourself in chat 3x” not “I bet he won’t kill himself”

General Esdeath 1 votes

That's even worse. Why the hell would you do that when you're all in a discord call with a chat?

Troll for Trump1 votes

...when you aren't using it to tell someone to go and kill themselves?

General Esdeath 1 votes

"hey man go kys but not really I'm just angry and venting"

That's like me offering you a dollar to get me a cup of water and then saying "haha pranked"

Troll for Trump1 votes

Who said you have to only use "kys" when you're angry and venting?

In this case, the OP is saying it to joke around (allegedly).

If you can't find humor with that, you have that option. You (and RIot), however, shouldn't have the ability to censor the phrase out because of that.

General Esdeath 1 votes

"How dare this company who owns this game think they can censor a joke as funny as suicide haha xDDD"

Holy shit you have a real problem if you think telling someone to kill themselves in chat while you're in a call is a joke.

Troll for Trump1 votes

"How dare this company who owns this game think they can censor a joke as funny as suicide haha xDDD"

It doesn't matter if it's this company, a company or anyone. Censoring phrases out with a zero-tolerance policy is always something I'll disagree with. Doesn't mean it's a bad idea, just that I disagree with zero-tolerance policies.

Holy shit you have a real problem if you think telling someone to kill themselves in chat while you're in a call is a joke.

You aren't telling them to go and kill themselves, I've said this MULTIPLE times.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Zero tolerance is bad? Why?

"I'm saying X but I'm not saying X"

Dude you're trolling, admit it.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Zero tolerance is bad? Why?

That's censorship. Riot has the ability to do so, doesn't mean they should.

"I'm saying X but I'm not saying X"

Words and phrases are based on context. Even Riot acknowledges that. You can say F*ck and it can be used negatively, neutrally, or positively. Words are words, you build context upon them

You really need to be more openminded

General Esdeath 1 votes

That's not really censorship. Censorship means government forbidding you. If you came to my store and started telling people to kill them selves, we'd kick you out. But the government can't force us to kick you out.

"based on context"

I really can't see "kill yourself" meaning anything other than "I want you to end your own life". You need to stop being so toxic over a game.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Suicide isn't really a joke. See my former line of "seek help" because you clearly need it.

BrownVsBoard1 votes

But at what point does the zero tolerance policy become too sensitive and overkill? When does joking with your buddies about the banning system and actually telling someone to end their life separate? If someone actually wanted to hurt another persons feelings, they wouldn’t try and say once sentence and immediately try to brush it off, they’d either go all in with the insults or just be passive aggressive with pings and farm/camp stealing. It just feels a little unfair that I got a two week suspension instead of a chat restriction or something.

zPOOPz3 votes

It's at the point SOMEONE reported you indicating to the system that he is not okay with what you said. Maybe it's a joke report, maybe it's a serious report. The system has no way to know.

The fault lies in you saying it and/or the person who reported you for it if this is 5-man premade.

If no one reported you that game, you can spill all the toxic shit you can possibly think of and your game would not be scanned.

You or your friend(s) made a boo-boo. Don't redirect fault to the system.

if you jokingly called the police on your friend and got your friend jailed, do you think it's the laws or the police fault or the person who called 911 forcing the police to response as is their duty? Same thing applies. You can do all the drugs at home all you want as long as no one call the cops on you. You will not be arrested.

BrownVsBoard2 votes

Yes but this is lethal force for a misdemeanor. I would’ve liked a warning of some sort right when I said it. If riots instant feedback system can punish people 15 minutes after they say it, why don’t they have it issue warnings right when they start becoming toxic.

BrownVsBoard1 votes

I knew another friend who reported his friend every game until his friend got chat restricted

zPOOPz1 votes

then he/you needs new friends...

BrownVsBoard1 votes

I’ll go find some on Craigslist when I have time

zPOOPz5 votes

if all 5 people think it's funny to joke report each other, that's fine and more power to you guys.

Just....if you poke the system for fun and the system poke back, don't cry about it afterward.

ModPeriscope8 votes

They take threats to harm others pretty seriously, with this game backing up that claim.

If you were truly in a 5-man premade, have your other premade summoners post here, revoking their report.

Write in a support ticket.

BrownVsBoard2 votes

I’m told I wasn’t reported. Is there a chance that the ifs was activated for something else and then I used a certain phrase. I don’t think the ifs scans one team in particular.

Warios8 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am dep trai,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9LTAIRcL,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-12-18T02:37:48.069+0000)

Apparently no one reported me. I just got banned by the instant feedback system

From what has been said in the past on these forums, IFS does not scan chat unless it has been reported.

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes