Boards›Player Behavior

For Those Who Got "Permabanned for 3rd Party Program"

Maika··36 votes·2,947 views

First, before being really anxious, nervous, mad, sad, and etc.. think rationally. Breathe in, and breathe out. I was honestly freaked out and I missed the most important thing to ask Riot Support.

**"Can you please check my account out to make sure that it wasn't a mistake?" **

I was too focused on why they thought that I was banned and what game it was that they believed I scripted in. Of coursel, they can't answer this question and I was focused on blaming them because of it.

However, after contacting Riot Live Support one more time, I was able to talk to "IronSights". This person is awesome! He checked my account and noticed that I was mistakenly banned.

_Kurochii

Apr 5, 6:55 PM PDT

Chat started: 2018-04-06 01:44 AM UTC

(01:44:25 AM) Kurochii: I got a notification today telling me that I was permabanned for using a 3rd Party Program, however I believe that I did not use one. I already contacted Riot Live Support once, and I realized that I was too focused on knowing how my account got banned and if they could tell me what games it seemed as if I was scripting in. If I could please have another person talk to me, that would be great. Thank you. (01:45:57 AM) Player Support Bot: Hey! We’re getting a ton of new chats right now. It may take upwards of 7 minutes to get to your chat, but if you sit tight we’ll help you out as soon as we can. If you’re not about that waiting in line lifestyle, you can always submit a ticket instead! (01:47:16 AM) *** IronSights joined the chat *** (01:47:16 AM) IronSights: Hello there (01:47:21 AM) IronSights: Let me pull up the account and see whats going on (01:47:23 AM) Kurochii: Hi (01:47:24 AM) Kurochii: Thank you (01:50:44 AM) IronSights: Alright, It looks like this account was mistakenly banned, showing up in a ban wave as a false positive. I did some investigation for you, and have lifted the penalty for you. (01:50:52 AM) Kurochii: THANK YOU SO MUCH (01:50:55 AM) Kurochii: Omgg (01:50:58 AM) IronSights: This is very rare, and we try to fix those mistakes as soon as we find out about them :o (01:51:05 AM) IronSights: Sorry for the scare, but I was happy to sort that out for you (01:51:10 AM) Kurochii: Why did this other Riot Support say that wasn't the case though? (01:51:20 AM) Kurochii: Was it because I was too focused on how they checked? (01:51:23 AM) Kurochii: I do apologize :(( (01:51:28 AM) Kurochii: BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH HONESTLY (01:51:33 AM) Kurochii: I HAD ANXIETY THE WHOLE DAY (01:51:52 AM) IronSights: We only recently found out that a mistake was made. Most likely, the previous agent did not know there had been some false positives, and they could only tell you what they knew (01:52:04 AM) Kurochii: I see now (01:52:19 AM) Kurochii: Honestly, thank you so much.. (01:52:28 AM) Kurochii: I would give you the biggest hug now if I could (01:52:55 AM) IronSights: :3

I appreciate that. Thanks for being understanding about the whole thing. (01:53:06 AM) IronSights: Happy to get you back into the game!_

IF IRONSIGHTS SEES THIS, THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Message: Calm down and think before you start messaging riot. Ask them if they can check your account first before asking "how did you guys see that I scripted?" "What game was it?" They cannot answer these questions as the real scriptors would just learn from it and abuse it.

Anywho, thank you Ironsights!

51 Comments

BainTheBanned9 votes

First off: THANK YOU! im glad you posted that riot took a look at the issue, lots of people had issues today it seems.

Nuhi4 votes

Same thing happened to me. Stay positive everyone who didn't do anything wrong :)

1RiceBowl1x4 votes

player support needs more love <3

MachstDuBierHase4 votes

{quoted}

player support needs more love <3

No, player support needs more agents who actually care about the game and the player base ^

DONT NEEEED TEAM1 votes

ye rito banned me last year for "third party program" too. AFter 20 support tickets of riot saying i did usee third party programs i gave up. Than a week later they said o sorrry my bad. riot is sh

Ph03n1xdust4 votes

So they know they have false positives, but do not check all the bans by themselves (only after a ticket). What a great way to be an asshole.

Pika Fox9 votes

They physically cannot check them all manually. It would be literally impossible.

TrulyBland6 votes

This. It's likely that they have somebody working on a "automated" solution. And if that doesn't work, it wouldn't be the first time that Riot undid a complete banwave.

Until then, manually checking the cases of whoever complains is a reasonable workaround. After all, why would somebody who hasn't done anything not complain about a ban they received?

EL HAMSTERO2 votes

because its an enormous hassle and many times doesnt work anyway as the OP found out. only on his 3rd ticket was he able to get results. many people will not put in that much effort.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

Because 90% of the time the Rito support is not more than a mindless bot vomiting prewritten sentences to all your questions.

BTW the right order would be to undo the whole banwave AND then fix the bug, not the other way around.

Automated Riven1 votes

I have never in my life dealt with a mindless not in riot support. And I have submitted tickets for quite a few things, albeit rarely. But I always get a real person and they are always helpful.

Pika Fox1 votes

Some might not complain because they assume nothing would be done, they havnt noticed yet if they dont play often, or they assume its not worth the effort.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

Okay, you have an automated system (with a KNOWN bug), what produces false positives.

You FIX your automated system and run it again. Everyone who got caught in the first run and not in the 2nd, will get his ban revoked. Guess it is not so impossible to do (when you actually know what the bug is, since you can check it manually).

But nvm, we cant expect decent ppl working for Rito.

Terozu4 votes

If you think it's that simple you lack any knowledge of coding.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

The guy checked his problem in literally 3 minutes. I wonder how complicated that thing can be....

PLS show me a procedure what can be done in 3 minutes manually and cant be coded by a team for days! (Spare me with ML bullshits, I know those work a different way, but I would bet that their system is not ML)

Terozu2 votes

Well simple.

It's called a manual review.

You can't code a manual review with human like intellect in less than a few months, years even, let alone a few days.

Ph03n1xdust2 votes

You didn't really understand the question.

Tell me something what the guy could do in 3 minutes, but can not be coded. (I know it was a manual review, but how do you think it is?)

Terozu3 votes

No you just didnt like the answer.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

No, you just have clearly no idea what could take 3 minutes for a manual review and be impossible to code for a team in days. (Except the ML things.)

Terozu2 votes

It's called... Human... Insight...

A machine is not a human.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

Yep, still nothing, as I expected ;)

Terozu2 votes

Congrats. You just called humanity nothing.

Automated Riven1 votes

Use reason? The issue with AI is that it cannot do anything except for what it's programed to do. And to use reasoning and rational requires so many different variables its literally impossible to program for.

Anomander1 votes

It will show the program/action that triggered the ban when doing a manual review....... This means if it is a allowed action (like a chat macro) that triggered the automated ban it is REALLY easy to verify.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

Oh, because an automated check for a chat macro is hard to do, right? xDDDDDDDDDDD

Anomander2 votes

More like a macro that cast a ability then does a chat macro closes chat and spams a emote........

The macros can have a obscene amount of lines per use and variation to each one that is just a "chat macro". It is very hard to code for every variation however it is very easy to confirm upon manual review.......

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

This is simply not true, writing macro checks are incredibly easy.

Anomander1 votes

You have no concept of how it would work....... If you think it is a simple thing to detect macro/scripting maybe you should go out and make your fortune writing this so called easy code that game developers have been fighting with since before 90% of league players were born..........

TrulyBland1 votes

PLS show me a procedure what can be done in 3 minutes manually and cant be coded by a team for days!

How about looking at data of a specific kind that made a system decide that you were scripting and immediately seeing what's "off" about it based on an immense amount of experience with data of exactly that type?

It's funny you should mention ML and how you think Riot doesn't use it... because you are literally looking at how fast a highly trained (biological) neural network is at solving a task and attempt to deduce how long it should take to turn the reasoning that lead to its decision into rigorous and conventional code. If Riot doesn't use ML, then there's a fucking myriad of tasks that our brain is capable of handling within three minutes that are almost impossible to code. Note the lack of "in days" in the previous sentence.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

It's really funny, that I want a simple example from you and your answer is:

Hmm something hard, what a computer cant do cuz you need experience!

Well played sir, you have no idea what this would be, right? ;)

TrulyBland1 votes

I gave you an example.

How about looking at data of a specific kind that made a system decide that you were scripting and immediately seeing what's "off" about it based on an immense amount of experience with data of exactly that type?

If you want something more specific than that, you clearly don't comprehend your own question. Because it makes absolutely no sense to ask me to define to you, rigorously, a task that apparently cannot easily be defined rigorously enough to turned quickly into code.

Edit: Slightly more specific: Do you know those mindfuck pictures? The ones where something is wrong or hidden in the picture? Once you are somewhat "trained" and have an idea what to look for in these kidn of pictures there are plenty of them where you can easily identify what the weird thing about them is within three minutes. I dare you, however, to write any kind of program that takes one of those pictures as an input and, in some way, identifies the part of the picture that is "off".

There. Happy now?

Edit2: Honestly don't know why I didn't think of this sooner... but how about the most abstract and yet most obvious task of all: Find the odd one out. Humans can do that with shapes, numbers, words, objects, etc. in pretty much no time. Have fun trying to write an algorithm for that.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

I have said multiple times that image processing does not count here, since I'm sure the 3rd party program detection is NOT image processing.

"Find the odd one out." - What the fck are you talkin' about?

TrulyBland1 votes

You didn't say that image processing doesn't count. You said "ML things" don't count... the problem with that is, that ML is not a problem, it's a solution. The problem exists regardless of what system Riot uses and the problem doesn't technically need ML to be solved.

See, this is one of the reasons why I didn't really want to give in and give you a specific answer. Precisely because of your ambiguous "no ML things" statement.

Now that I know this is the way you meant it: You are asking people to given example for a problem that is significantly easier to solve with neural networking (since a brain was able to solve it in 3 minutes) than with conventional coding... but at the same time you don't accept problems that can be solved easier with neural networks. Sorry, no can do. You know, that whole "Tertium non datur" shit in mathematics, and all.

Since you decided to draw an arbitrary line regarding which answers you accept, that literally excludes every actual answer to your problem, I think that's all the evidence we need that either you are a troll, or as stated before you manage to not understand your own question.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

Look, they 99.9999% surely do NOT use any kind of ML in their 3rd party program recognizing system. These shits are usually done by hashing game memory what should not be changed, setting hooks for given system calls like openproc, writememory etc..... Or EVEN listing other processes what interacts with the LoL client (usually this is done by setting the hooks, but can be don't in a different way). So, WHICH one of this needs "human insight", and can not be coded in 2 days?!

The guy solved it in 3 minutes, does NOT mean, that it was a NN problem. Maybe he just fckin looked at a number, saw that "omfg, this is '0', we should not have banned this guy", and that's all. For some reason you are assuming that with the brain you can do ONLY complicated things, but in this case it's waaaaaay more likely to be a simple check if a number is something, or a string is somethings.....

That's why I ask a specific example what can be connected to this issue (3rd party program recognition), and not some random ML bullshit.

TrulyBland1 votes

Look, they 99.9999% surely do NOT use any kind of ML in their 3rd party program recognizing system.

And that means that problems that could be solved by ML simply do not exist? I mean, that's what you are implying here.

The guy solved it in 3 minutes, does NOT mean, that it was a NN problem.

We're talking about the hypothetical process here that you tasked people to find, not the actual process that the support went through (since we know jack shit about it). And that hypothetical was "Human solves one specific case in 3 minutes" combined with "Is very difficult to solve with conventional coding"... and that combination is what makes it an NN problem.

Maybe he just fckin looked at a number, saw that "omfg, this is '0', we should not have banned this guy"

See, there's your problem. You assume that it's this kind of problem and then deduce that Riot should be able to code it easily. But you have no actual evidence of that assumption. You've already made up your mind what the problem is, but pretend that you are interested in other possibilites by taking a legitimate question and then twist it into a way where it no longer has a solution.

That's why I ask a specific example what can be connected to this issue

No. No, you didn't. The only specificity in your question comes from that arbitrarily line of "No ML things", so that it's impossible to actually answer your question, so that you wouldn't have to deal with actual reasoning and so that you can stick with the opinion you already made your mind up to.

NN solves it in 3 minutes. Hard to code in conventional code. Is not an "ML thing".

Those three conditions cannot be met. At least not with your definition of an "ML thing".

Pika Fox1 votes

If your suggestion is really that simple, then riot is already on fixing it. If theyre not doing so, youre clearly wrong. Riot isnt going to just up and state what theyre doing, so you have no reason to complain or bitch like this, because, again, if its so easy a fix, theyre already doing it but not telling you. If theyre not doing so, then your suggestion clearly isnt the best way to handle it.

Ph03n1xdust1 votes

This would be true, if Rito didn't prove in the past multiple times that they don't give a flying fuck about the players.

But yet I still ask you, give me one procedure what takes only 3 minutes with manual review and can not be coded by a team in 2 days! (Voice recognition and image processing doesn't count.)

Pika Fox1 votes

Riot has proved they care far more than almost every other game company in existence. I dont know where people like you get off thinking that. Riot almost literally pioneered the proper f2p model.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8ssKVbpe,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-04-06T13:25:07.972+0000)

They physically cannot check them all manually. It would be literally impossible.

no, they did this in the past, its definitely possible lol, its just time consuming.

Pika Fox1 votes

No, its literally impossible now. With the rate at which bot accounts are created, even if every single riot employee checked bots all workday, every work day, there would still be a growing backlog.

StonePlatypus2 votes

Player support has always been good. While I don't deal with them often they do their job well and usually in a reasonable amount of time. Only people who I've seen do better is WoW support.

But yeah it was great having everything restored and they were super nice. Congrats to them, and their patience in dealing with that crappy situation.

RebaPG2 votes

how can i get in this live chat?? my account got also permenently banned for the same reason yesterday please help TT.TT

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

Go to the support page. It is only up during certain hours.

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

they have live support? since when? i thought all they had was tickets...

RacoonHunter2 votes

Just be wary of KawaiiViking.. he will admit that there's no reason you should have been banned but wont do anything about it. glad you got one of the good rioters that will do their jobs.

DONT NEEEED TEAM2 votes

ye rito banned me last year for "third party program" too. AFter 20 support tickets of riot saying i did usee third party programs i gave up. Than a week later they said o sorrry my bad. riot is shit

Lucky Moniker1 votes

Except when this isn’t the case. My ex was permabanned for this and same thing, she never touched anything near a bot/script etc and they refused to do anything about it for over 6 months then randomly changed their mind.

Banuvan1 votes

Easy way i stay from being banned for this type of stuff is to just suck at the game. There is NO way I use anything to enhance my game play and my record shows it.[zombie-brand-mindblown]

T4underbolt1 votes

Actually scripters are usually bad at the game. They try to fill the lack of skill with script. Yes it helps hitting or dodging skillshots but it's often possible to out game them.

Banuvan1 votes

{quoted}

Actually scripters are usually bad at the game. They try to fill the lack of skill with script. Yes it helps hitting or dodging skillshots but it's often possible to out game them.

Yea, don't think i've ever encountered one or if I have I didn't notice.

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