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Judge me pls

Rosasosa··1 votes·269 views
Chat logs

Hey, I've had an account totally permabanned before and believe me I can see when I'm deserving and totally overboard on the toxicity after the fact and I can see what I said in a string of text on the reform card. Especially when I've progressed through the numerous thresholds of 10 and 25 game chat restrictions and the final 14 day suspension. But this time I can totally say I'm astounded by the severe punishment. Obviously like I said at first I was thinking a ban? No way. But again on the reform card I can totally see a PUNISHMENT, but not a ban! I haven't received any sort of punishment, warning, leaver(not 100% on that one.) or anything so far. So skipping both chat restrictions seems absurd and I'm only partially angry because I feel like its totally got pushed to this point by a triple report game I just had where the ADC started out with an insult for no reason, and then proceeded to play victim saying I was trolling while inting into the team and the top and jungle bought into it! Joining him with the name calling and toxicity even though I STILL proceeded to help the team. Just look at the scores! Not that it's the whole story but come on! If you saw the video you could blindly see where although I said I wouldn't help him (bad idea I get it now cause it probably only flustered him more.) I still was going too, but I knew he was a good player so when he started just running at them taking so much poke I CAN'T just follow up, It would leave me to die just as much as he did. BUT I will admit after he was making these obviously dumb plays on purpose I wasn't helping him farm anymore. Then he cries wolf to the top who also started out going 0-5, which I didn't bring up until he got toxic too. He cried wolf to the jungle who also started out saying I was bming for not leashing. I wen't to grab my food it was 1 min I was gone for leash THAT IS IT. Yet the jungle supports the Draven who starts out calling me names for no leash? Come on, they ganged up on me. I truly did my best to at least not resort to just flat out attacking them with verbals, and still kept helping them make plays and my score was reflecting that accurately. Meanwhile Draven dies cause hes too busy verbally harassing me. That settles game one which is what I believe totally over pushed the punishment SOLELY because 3 people ganged up on me with reports. I could see 1 just because I didn't handle it the best, I should've just muted but he converted 3 people to assault me.

As for game 2 and 3, well I highlighted all the parts where I truly thought OKAY, I Just shouldn't have spoken at all there. The orange highlight is where yes, it came out semi-toxic I can see it now, but it was truly me just being way too blunt and tactless with advice/direction. I should've thought it out more and said just think before you make your plays.Then the 2nd orange part where it actually is pretty toxic with me saying get your head out of your ass, ya I get it, but again it was me truly just being stupidly blunt and slightly annoyed but trying to not name call and say again, You're just not thinking before you play. Now that leaves blue, the blue for game 2 in a vacuum sure sounds pretty much like basic shit talk, but the reality is it was just, at least to me, just me and the enemy Yasuo support trading some banter cause we met the last game but it turned into a remake and I said "I was excited to smack yasuo." to which he replied "1v1" I thought it was a joke since obviously it was only a 3 min game, we can't hate each other already, so I said yea, hence me saying I added him but he didn't add back. The game 3 blue was simply me talking light smack at my adc, cause he didn't leash good, the jungle or adc didn't take offense.

So there it is. I'll admit I let the top I believe in game 2 I think get to me, because Idk why but she literally came out the gate yelling for reports at me and I was just like woah what? ( I think she thought I was the real AnnieBot and was trolling me a little fair enough, but it lead to her actually being toxic later.) Then it just progressed cause she was just making a bunch of lies like saying I was being homophobic and what not.

I believe I earned a fair chat restriction, but 14 day ban? Come on. I've had a perma banned account (My main one I spent like 4 years on) and I was straight up throwing slurs around calling people shit and all that left and right a year or 2 ago and those logs were freaking disgusting but I still got the chat bans first....but for this? No way. Thanks for your time, please enlighten me on any false ideologies I have on this! I truly am reforming if this whole thing doesn't say enough.

15 Comments

ModThe Djinn5 votes

Since you asked to be judged, I will give you a no-nonsense response here.

I think this escalation is deserved.

There's a LOT of chat here, and it's almost all problematic. The first game OPENS with you coming down hard on someone for being toxic and then just getting into an argument with them, calling them big-ego'd, saying they play like they are bronze, and so forth. There's over two pages of this, going on to mention their score, blaming the game on them, calling them a narcissist and a pathological liar...it's just not good.

The second game your second line is preemptively putting blame on another player, and you mention the chance of winning is gone by the seventh line or so. You call other players bad, tell them they're not thinking, tell them to shut up, and type "zzzzz" a lot, which is kind of a dismissive thing to do.

The third game you're insulting your team's leash almost immediately, telling your Pantheon he has his head in his ass, calling someone a crybaby, insulting their number of deaths, calling someone a monkey, and using "ez" as you close out the game.

Taken individual, no part of this is particularly extreme. But together this is FIVE PAGES of nearly constant abuse, harassment, arguing, and negativity in just three games. That's excessive, and possibly excessive enough to merit an escalated punishment.

I feel like its totally got pushed to this point by a triple report game I just had where the ADC started out with an insult for no reason...

The system does not care about the number of reports. All reports do in the new system (well, the several-year-old system now) is flag a game for review. 1 report, 3 reports, 9 reports: all of those do the same thing, which is cause the system to look at the game. Nothing more.

Eedat1 votes

[deleted]

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

Hmmm I dunno man. Normally the only time you get escalated past chat bans is wishing physical harm or slurs.

This is the most common reason, definitely. But I believe (since I've seen it a few times) that extended, persistent toxicity can indeed cause escalations even without triggering language. There isn't much in these logs that ISN'T toxic.

Of course, the OP is more than welcome to send in a Support Ticket to get feedback from Riot on why this escalation may have happened. :)

Eedat1 votes

Sorry, deleted my comment because I only saw the first page. Didnt see there was another 5 pages lol

Drugoth3 votes

I think this escalation is deserved.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/c/cd/Guilty.png/revision/latest?cb=20081115235911

Rosasosa1 votes

Ah, thanks. real constructive feedback like I truly wanted. Thanks. I agree and theres only a few things I can pick out from this and feel I disagree with. One is where you said I came down hard on this guy and got into an argument. I think there is a fundamental problem with bans on that specific instance because when people do what he did they DESERVE to be called for it, and you can say yes that is what the report button is for, but that is a delayed action and hands over all the power to bullies. Which clearly at times I fall into that category. I absolutely shouldn't have to sit their and listen to this guy berate me over something so small, I should get to defend myself from him going into all chat and turning my team against me. In context I think a real human would find leniency for what I said. I don't think I'm wording this the best I can but earlier today I saw a great post which had a lot of comments coming in on a "false report" where many people were saying things I agreed with. Looking at it in a vacuum reading your judgement with the list of things I said it sounds pretty harsh. The big ego tied with the bronze statement was just in simple response to the guy saying he straight up didn't care about our teams "silver game" as he is a diamond. Again I think I just gotta use my brain like I preach, I'm harsh and tactless when it comes to making plain statements, in the moment for me the big ego and bronze talk was me saying dude get over yourself, you're inting and claiming yourself a diamond player.

As for your statement about the second game early 'toxicity' I mentioned that it was definitely in jest with the context, me and the yas were just smack talking, and I believe that shows with the fact I didn't come at the Leona any more than that at all. The insulting leash, again was simply a joke, I can't honestly remember if it was with my duo or not, but either way, the jungler just mentioned his one auto leash so It was a joke since I didn't come at all. The rest, cant argue it, was straight up toxic and harmful. Oh the zzz, well I really hope that isn't toxic or dismissive, it is truly just like a "Ahhhhh damn" for me.

EDIT: I think the mentioning of a score in defense is again, acceptable, on a real fundamental level a guy INTING and a 0-5 start by top is going to be why you lose and calling that to light shouldn't be a bad thing.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}I think there is a fundamental problem with bans on that specific instance because when people do what he did they DESERVE to be called for it...I absolutely shouldn't have to sit their and listen to this guy berate me over something so small. I should get to defend myself from him going into all chat and turning my team against me.

You don't have to sit there and listen: you have a mute button.

What this argument comes down to is "he abused me so I should get to abuse him back." You can DEFEND yourself against accusations without returning fire in a toxic manner. There's an important difference here:

"I'm not feeding him! You threw top lane, fed him to 5/0, and now he's roaming and ganking me."

"I'm not feeding him. He's just really strong and is diving me under tower."

The second is a defense of your play in the situation without attacking or blaming anyone. The first is counter-aggression that's making you as bad as the person initiating the situation.

EDIT: I think the mentioning of a score in defense is again, acceptable, on a real fundamental level a guy INTING and a 0-5 start by top is going to be why you lose and calling that to light shouldn't be a bad thing.

Mentioning it is one thing. Spending five pages harassing players for their scores and play over and over again is a different matter.

"Hey dude...can you stop intentionally feeding? You've walked into tower range four times." << That's fine, if done ONCE.

Rosasosa: lol see hes trolling hes asking how hes inting Rosasosa: ur 0-2 Rosasosa: ur 1-5 Rosasosa: would still be an ez game if draven didnt tilt off the earth and int Rosasosa: 2-7 Rosasosa: ur 3-10 bud Rosasosa: u lost the game Rosasosa: u flashed in inting Rosasosa: zzz are u a narcicist Rosasosa: coupled with a ptho liar? Rosasosa: i question the world where a 2-7-4 top lane Rosasosa: and a 4-10-4 Rosasosa: think theyre in the right Rosasosa: about losing the game Rosasosa: would me leashing have stopped u from going 0-5

^^That is NOT fine. This isn't just mentioning a score -- this is constantly grinding that score into him far beyond what is necessary to acknowledge the situation and request a change.

Rosasosa1 votes

Like I said, the mute button is absolutely not the answer to this question/problem. With that logic your putting the victims at fault. It's the same logic that has those special few saying women shouldn't be dressing so provocatively. Women absolutely shouldn't have to dress a certain way to not be assaulted. Maybe that is an extreme, I'll take it down some. I shouldn't have to put my food on the top of a ladder for my dog to eat it. My dog just shouldn't be eating my food because well that's my rules for my dog. Say we do it your way, and potentially the way Riot prefers, I'm called a name, I say ok, mute him. Carry on the game normally? He wouldn't be toxic anymore cause I've muted him and after the game I go ahead and throw a report his way, but like you said, what is getting my punishment is the quantity so the system goes ahead and sees his one bad name and boom nothing. With muting him myself I'M PERSONALLY limiting his chances to be toxic. Let's go to an extreme, every game you mute all like they famously say, THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION, it's BLATANT ignorance of the problem. We mute all every game and we can't report cause we don't know what has been said and cause we are taking power away from the trolls, but that is just not how it should be.

As for your 2 examples of a defense, one has a logical progression which includes the "why/how are we here" which is important to know so trolls don't wrongfully place blame. it SHOULD be dully noted that ya I'm dying, however, it's cause you lost top. That isn't toxic, you're stating your position with very logical reasoning, all you did was use less words that practically imply the same thing. "He's very fed" well why/how? well it's cause of whoever is attacking you for dying aka top with our imaginary scenario, its a logical reasoning for your position and if everyone wasn't so egotistical maybe top (which happens sometimes) thinks to himself, huh he's right, it's not all his fault, I'll hop off a bit and take some blame too.

Got me, I see it now, you're right I could've left it with one mention of hey your score is bad. After that it is too much. I guess with changing scores I feel the need it be repeated, maybe that is wrong of me.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}With that logic your putting the victims at fault.

That's a false equivalency. I'm not saying the victim is at fault -- I'm saying you have a way to remove the problem without resorting to BECOMING a problem yourself. By all means the initiator shouldn't be initiating, but that does not entitle you to become abusive back at him/her.

You don't HAVE to mute him -- you can just ignore it. That's an option that's allowed as well. But the moment you choose to fight back in a situation where you are not personally in danger AND you have a way to remove the problem AND you're bringing more toxicity into the game AND it's not going to help because that person has already decided to ruin your game, you're just creating a bigger problem and behaving in an abusive fashion yourself.

Rosasosa1 votes

Not in danger no, but attacked yes, being defaced everyone has the right to defend themselves from being defaced. In the confines of Lol I get that doesn't include being abusive back, but is giving very good, logical reasoning even if it's a harsh truth being toxic? He was calling to the heavens he wasn't trolling playing beyond dumb to our top and jungle asking "how am I troll, she trolled me" so in him trying to convert the jungle and top against me I definitely get the right to keep that from happening, so what if the only good option is the harsh reality which is look at your damn score? You inted? You trolled and no one but. The only score I didn't need to call out and did for sheer anger was tops, pissed at the fact he was still glaring past the obvious and reporting me and not this Draven I went out and said you went 0-5, it was uneeded I get it. But Ultimately the majority of that game was justified and skipping not one but TWO restrictions seems crazy!

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}...but is giving very good, logical reasoning even if it's a harsh truth being toxic?

Rosasosa: why would i help u? Rosasosa: ur logic is nonsense Rosasosa: ur ignorant Rosasosa: ur egos too big Rosasosa: u play like bronze Rosasosa: if u didnt care u wouldnt be crying so much lol Rosasosa: can i ask how ignorant u are Rosasosa: zzz are u a narcicist Rosasosa: coupled with a ptho liar?

Rosasosa: i question the world where a 2-7-4 top lane Rosasosa: and a 4-10-4 Rosasosa: think theyre in the right Rosasosa: about losing the game

Just to pick the first game, these are not "good, logical reasons." These are insults. A good, logical reason that's a harsh truth is something like "You're 0/4 against him. If you keep trying to fight him, you will keep dying." It's useful, accurate, and as objective as it can be.

"You're 0/4. You're bad. You've lost us the game" may be accurate, but phrasing it like that when you have other options in wording is -- yes -- not something you should be doing.

Remember that League is, first and foremost, a GAME. It is supposed to be a fun, recreational activity. I would recommend keeping that in mind for future interactions with players, because I honestly do not want to see your account banned, and if you continue to feel it's okay to consider this sort of behavior merely "blunt and honest" you will end up getting hit by the system again. :(

Eedat2 votes

I truly am reforming if this whole thing doesn't say enough.

You're not. You admitted to having an account go through multiple stages of punishment up to a permaban then made a new account and still continued to flame others heavily in multiple games. Only person you're fooling is yourself. Don't try to pull that card on us though

Rosasosa1 votes

Thanks for nothing beneficial to either of us :)

You're right, I got a permaban for much worse and had chat bans for much worse than this, hence why I'm here TRYING to understand I'm so sorry.

Rosasosa1 votes

Maybe I need to reevaluate the way I put up a defense. In my mind it's working like this. You're right. I'm not being harmed physically and what not, so there isn't a basis for he shot I NEED to shoot back. But there is a need for defending myself. In this game His shot was name calling for not leashing then proceeded to call me a troll saying I'm not helping him by not going into die like he is and turning the team against me by somehow proving to them he isn't trolling. My defense to this was, as shown, I'm playing the game, I'm participating in kills heavily, I'm not feeding, and lastly, this is where I assume I need to reevaluate, look at yourself, you are trolling with the constant grinding of his score.

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