Boards›Player Behavior

I'm so done with Riot's player punishment system.

FalthyFranch··8 votes·2,202 views

Let me introduce myself. I am a veteran league of legends player who loves this game, and I've recently come off a 1 year break. I've started this new account to feel fresh and to be honest, this game is as good as ever. Although, there is one I've come to notice in the couple weeks I've been back to play League, and it is a SERIOUS issue; and this is Riot's punishment system. Trolls and griefers and toxic players use this to report innocent players, and get them unnecessary and unneeded punishments for those who are being attacked. Let me give you an example: I'm in a game, good at all, I'm playing top lane Gnar. The who game I've been being harassed by the enemy top laner, adc, and mid laner. I mostly just ignore them but I throw in a wrench into their logic just to throw them off. Eventually, they decide to report me. I thought to myself at the time, "Well that wont do anything, the people who run the tribunal system actually read the logs."

I was SEVERELY mistaken. After receiving by 10 game chat restriction; I wasn't exactly happy. After I had finished my restriction I realized after playing another that I wasn't able to receive loot. Of course at the time I persevered it as just a glitch in the programming, and that they'll fix it soon. Boy was I wrong, I soon learned that this new system just handed out punishments without actually evaluating the situation. As soon as I came to this revelation, I quickly began to changed the way I communicated. Of course before I was positive, calling out summoner spells and whatnot to help the team and win, but it make no difference. THEY still found a way to get me punished.

So my story comes to just recently. I had got into a fight very similar to my first one a week back that rewarded my 10 game chat restriction, and the same thing happened. They spammed "REPORT ______ FOR TOXIC PLEASE HARASSING US IN TEAM CHAT". Of course I tried to explain what was going on but of course they other team thought I was lying and decided to believe the cancer that was these trolls. So now I have a 25 game chat restriction, and while I fully intent to play it out and continue on playing league, because I truly do love this game, I really do think Riot needs to bring the tribunal court back.

Anyways, that's my rant-thing, what are you opinions? And could I get a Riot employee's formal response on behalf of Riot Games on the subject? Because to be frank, I'm done with this.

Sincerely;

An Angry Veteran. Gnar

47 Comments

Deep Terror Nami10 votes

Retaliation is not an acceptable form of defense against toxic behavior, because all it does throw fuel on the fire and you become no different than them. If someone is harassing you or you just don't want to hear them, please simply mute them, and report if you feel necessary. Their reports will have no effect on you if you have done nothing wrong to validate them, and they'll lose report weight if they report falsely.

If you want to discuss whether your behavior was appropriate and/or considered negative and worth punishment, I recommend posting the chat logs you received in your reform card.

If you need to speak with Riot, I recommend submitting a Support Ticket; it's not impossible to receive a Riot response here, but unlikely, and you're guaranteed a response through a ticket.

FalthyFranch1 votes

Man I don't think you understand, It doesn't matter what you do. You could completely ignore than and communicate with your team normally, they will STILL spam reports on you.

TrulyBland8 votes

As DTN said:

Their reports will have no effect on you if you have done nothing wrong to validate them, and they'll lose report weight if they report falsely.

Reports are neither just blindly accepted, nor do you get automatically punished when you reach a threshold from reports.

FalthyFranch3 votes

Well than Riot clearly doesn't understand their system. You can keep preaching about how this system is perfect and flawless and whatnot, but the facts are the facts; and a good majority of the community has experienced the same thing I have. Normally worse from what I see.

Deep Terror Nami5 votes

I'm not understanding what you are suggesting Riot doesn't understand. You won't get punished no matter how many reports they send your way if you've done nothing wrong. I recommend posting your chat logs if you want to discuss with us whether you were being negative or not, and submit a ticket if you only want to speak with Riot.

Nobody has ever honestly suggested that the system if flawless. If there was indeed an error and you were falsely punished, Riot can remove it.

RedTao1 votes

Nobody has ever honestly suggested that the system if flawless.

You're right. just look at my behavior for the past 13 months. I've been toxic this entire time, get told I'm reported after every game during this time, yet they do nothing to me now.

Troll Armada1 votes

{quoted}

As DTN said:

Reports are neither just blindly accepted, nor do you get automatically punished when you reach a threshold from reports.

um, no... I used to believe this line, until I personally was stalked and harassed across multiple games and eventually earned my first 10 game chat restriction.

This is absolutely not true!

RedTao2 votes

Lets not forget that you don't have to say anything for Riot to punish you. There was a few threads showing that people were getting permabanned with nothing in their chat logs. So it doesn't matter if you say nothing, as long as people are offended by anything you do, it's considered "negative behaivor"

Sarutobi2 votes

I hope you realize people do get ban for other things like trolling, feeding, and cheating in the game. How would chatlogs work in those cases!

ModPrandine

{quoted}

I hope you realize people do get ban for other things like trolling, feeding, and cheating in the game. How would chatlogs work in those cases!

Usually those cases require a manual review/audit of the account in question. In fact, here is one such example of that happening.

RedTao1 votes

From what Riot told me, if people report you over and over for the exact same thing, then they interpret that you're doing the thing they keep reporting you for. "The community decide what they want in their game". If the "community" keeps reporting you for the same thing, you will be punished for it. They don't need to see you doing something wrong, just have multiple reports filed against you saying you're doing it. Whether it's feeding, "Trolling", cheating, refusal to communicate/cooperate, whatever. If people report you for it, you'll be punished for it. It doens't matter if you say/do nothing wrong.

ModPrandine3 votes

{quoted}

Man I don't think you understand, It doesn't matter what you do. You could completely ignore than and communicate with your team normally, they will STILL spam reports on you.

From Riot Tantram:

Actually, Erdrik is correct here.

A report flags a game for review. They do not establish guilt. The game is then reviewed for harassment, feeding, etc. This is why 'troll reporting' or 'gang reporting' do not work. False or inaccurate reports are thrown out.

You cannot ever be punished for saying nothing .. unless of course it's for something gameplay related like feeding, afking or cheating. But, you can never be punished for offensive language, hate speech or verbal abuse if you said nothing.

Troll Armada2 votes

{quoted}

From Riot Tantram: Actually, Erdrik is correct here.

A report flags a game for review. They do not establish guilt. The game is then reviewed for harassment, feeding, etc. This is why 'troll reporting' or 'gang reporting' do not work. False or inaccurate reports are thrown out.

You cannot ever be punished for saying nothing .. unless of course it's for something gameplay related like feeding, afking or cheating. But, you can never be punished for offensive language, hate speech or verbal abuse if you said nothing.

ACTUALLY, he's not.

Some of you are still in elementary and middle school, and some of you are older, but should still remember times when as children you conspired to get someone in trouble who had done nothing wrong.

It's the same exact mob mentality here. The reality is that innocent people routinely get swept up in 'hit-jobs' like this,

ModPrandine3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Troll Armada,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GaK8Fjo,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2016-08-30T04:53:06.025+0000)

ACTUALLY, he's not.

Some of you are still in elementary and middle school, and some of you are older, but should still remember times when as children you conspired to get someone in trouble who had done nothing wrong.

It's the same exact mob mentality here. The reality is that innocent people routinely get swept up in 'hit-jobs' like this,

Sorry if I find what you say hard to believe. Usually these so-called "innocent people" have a history of acting up and are just trying to pull the innocent card to try to justify their own poor behavior. If you have any actual proof that says otherwise then please feel free to post it here.

Sans Hama1 votes

{quoted}

Man I don't think you understand, It doesn't matter what you do. You could completely ignore than and communicate with your team normally, they will STILL spam reports on you.

Agreed, ignore the dumbs who posts that shit about not retaliating and muting everyone.

ModPrandine2 votes

{quoted}

Agreed, ignore the dumbs who posts that shit about not retaliating and muting everyone.

It's not us who makes the rules, it's Riot. They are the ones who say that retaliation is not acceptable here. From Understanding the Tribunal:

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned??? a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.

You are free to disagree of course, but throwing out insults to those that disagree with you is the wrong way to get your point across.

Sans Hama1 votes

[deleted]

Deep Terror Nami6 votes

You sound as if you have some insider information; OP has posted nothing from his reform card to show whether he may or may not have deserved the punishment, though it was something I have requested respectfully.

You are right that you can't stop people from reporting you. What you can do is decide whether to give those reports value by being toxic or not. The entire system is designed around throwing out false reports.

None of this was copy-pasted, I have addressed his concerns specifically to the best of my ability with the given information. I have nothing to gain from this from Riot nor the players; I'm simply giving them as much information as I can so they can address the problem properly, regardless of where the fault lies.

Anything else?

https://i.gyazo.com/ad4258899c4de3d9cdfab8b4d8bd7abb.gif

Sans Hama1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GaK8Fjo,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-30T07:07:25.340+0000)

You sound as if you have some insider information; OP has posted nothing from his reform card so show whether he may or may not have deserved the punishment, though it was something I have requested respectfully.

You are right that you can't stop people from reporting you. What you can do is decide whether to give those reports value by being toxic or not. The entire system is designed around throwing out false reports.

None of this was copy-pasted, I have addressed his concerns specifically to the best of my ability with the given information. I have nothing to gain from this from Riot nor the players; I'm simply giving them as much information as I can so they can address the problem properly, regardless of where the fault lies.

Anything else?

https://i.gyazo.com/ad4258899c4de3d9cdfab8b4d8bd7abb.gif

Radical m8,

First off i have no insider information, except that you incessantly post telling people to do all the thing riot has told them to do in situations such as these. Without a doubt you are right in the fact of the correct actions.

What OP is pointing to and what I agree with is that the punishment system is completely hypocritical, worthless and does more harm than good. In an average game at least one players will almost always be doing something Riot defines as "Illegal". The problem lies with the fact that the punishments are never carried out, but a flash mob of voters can easily report someone and get them banned for something that they themselves were doing more so and is not punished anyway.

Okay so in case your small mind can't handle it, lets give an example. In San Antonio, Texas flirting and/or responding to flirting is illegal using your eyes. Now, there is a punishment attached to this crime. Obviously this isn't carried out but if out of nowhere a group of people from San Antonio who in their life obviously have flirted all mobbed a couple who were flirting and got them punished. This would be outrages. Of course you could tell them that they shouldn't flirt or respond to flirting ever and they wouldn't get in trouble but that wouldn't help.

All that OP and me are trying to say is that there is a very blatantly obvious problem in Riots report system and telling the players who have experienced the short end of this situation all the things they should do isn't going to help. In my experience even doing all the things you mention don't actually often help. So please, we don't need to hear any of Riots rules on the matter and it really doesn't help.

-Cloud

http://i.imgur.com/ed7f9wq.jpg[/img] http://i.imgur.com/2ZjozNs.jpg[/img]

In honour of the Twitch/Nami synergy.

Reket DeAlk5 votes

You can get all the reports in the world and not get punished at all. It only depends on if you did anything wrong or not.

I've been playing for about 4 or 5 years (right around when Leona was released) and haven't gotten a single punishment. And I actively use chat. It's not that hard to not get punished.

Karunamon5 votes

Here's the thing - reports don't automatically take action against you. All they do is flag the game for review, by a human. If you're getting chat restricted, it's because someone at Riot read your logs and decided you weren't following the SC.

Number of reports doesn't matter. One report flags a game, regardless of whether 1 person reported you or 9.

but I throw in a wrench into their logic just to throw them off.

Hmm..

I had got into a fight very similar to my first one a week back that rewarded my 10 game chat restriction

Sounds like the system working as intended to me.

You're hardly the first person to come here and eloquently state that they got restricted for no reason. You will not be the last. Thing is, those complaints are almost always BS. I'd love to see the chatlog. Which, by the way, you should have gotten a copy of in your suspension email. So you absolutely could post them here (after redacting the names) and back up your claims...

I wonder if you'll be the first person in the history of "I got unfairly banned" posts on this board to come through?

In any case, I suggest you start immediately dealing with toxic players by muting them (hold tab, click the speaker icon), and reporting after the game rather than engaging them. If you're just coming off a 10 day game, the next step is.. significantly more permanent.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

Actually, cases are reviewed by the Instant Feedback System, but the rest is accurate; a case is built up against a player through reported games, then when a case review is triggered the system checks those matches for offending behavior. Riot still does random manual reviews to ensure system accuracy, and for fringe cases.

Karunamon1 votes

I thought Instant Feedback just pops a note up on the offenders screen, while game restrictions had to be approved by staff?

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

Nope, it's everything, and it works within 5 minutes of the triggering report. Here are some resources on the system;

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/reports-how-do-they-work

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Boqd81O0-upcoming-upgrades-to-chat-restrictions

KrumblyKordyn2 votes

I feel you, I got a 10 game restriction for getting mad at someone that ran down mid (my lane) and fed an akali 9 free kills simply because he was bored at that moment. But that person didnt get a ban or anything. The system that riot uses is complete and utter trash. Now that I have a chat restriction for tell that person who fed that they are an asshole for ruining the game and feeding I can not get loot prizes at the end of games for atleast 2-3 months.

And you show them proof that you did nothing wrong other then get upset over a feeder, Which they should understand people will get upset over. It literally ruins the game for everyone on the team with the feeder, but they will not lift any bans or restrictions even if you can prove that you did nothing wrong other than getting upset over a feeder.

They implemented something for someone who afks at the start or dc pre 3 minutes, but nothing for someone who places for the first 3 minutes and then afks and nothing for someone who is intent feeding. They need to add something for these problems before they start losing more and more players, cause eventually that is whats going to happen. people are going to get tired of getting in trouble when you are the person that is getting trolled in game and the people doing the trolling are getting away with it with no actions taken against them.

Karunamon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ka Hepa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GaK8Fjo,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-08-30T02:47:06.079+0000) And you show them proof that you did nothing wrong other then get upset over a feeder

Your restriction was legitimate. Responding to toxicity with toxicity is not allowed. The system is working as intended.

KrumblyKordyn1 votes

Telling someone that they are an asshole for feeding your lane on purpose isnt toxic it is honest and shouldnt be punishable, especially if the person that was trolling didnt get an actions taken against them. it is unfair system and Ive uninstalled LoL cause of it after playing the game since it was in beta

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ka Hepa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GaK8Fjo,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-08-30T03:43:21.094+0000)

Telling someone that they are an asshole for feeding your lane on purpose isnt toxic it is honest and shouldnt be punishable, especially if the person that was trolling didnt get an actions taken against them. it is unfair system and Ive uninstalled LoL cause of it after playing the game since it was in beta

Regardless of the reason why you're still being a jerk by doing so. If they're playing poorly, yelling insults and profanity at them won't get them to play any better, and if they're a troll then they'll just be smiling all the way to their ban because they got to take you down with them. Trolls are punished, but someone else acting up will never excuse your own poor behavior. You can speak your mind without being or coming off as a jerk while doing so. From Understanding the Tribunal:

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned??? a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.

BoeBu2 votes

I had a similar situation.To make it short,i got 2 chat restrictions in a row and i deserve it.But what about them? What about other players? Did they got punished too?

Riot Games needs to wake up.They are talking "we got this,don't worry"... No they don't.

Riot Games basically ignores their community and they do whatever they want.

When i started playing this game,it was really fun.League of Legends was the only game that i played then.It still is,unfortunately...then i made a break about half a year...and when i started playing the game again,i just knew... something was different.

Basically,game is not as fun as it used to be...... Riot is the architect of their own destruction. They can either wake up and actually start listening to their community or they can keep doing whatever they want and lose their players.

P.S : I am trying to quit LoL because it is not fun, 99 % you will get flamed at every game and i don't want to be forced to play roles that i don't want to play. The best way to quit League of Legends is to find another game that is addictive. I have been playing GTA 5 and Clash of Clans for a while.I really like those games. You can actually have fun there.Try them out.Anything is better than League of Legends.

RedTao1 votes

Odds are they were not punished. The way it's explained to me: The community decide what they want to see in the game. So if you're punished for saying something back, it's because "the community" doesn't want you to stand up for yourself (Even if the abuser is wrong with their accusations) However, players want to be able to say what they want, about whoever they want, and not suffer the consenquences for saying so. Because players want to say what they want about other players and not want anyone to say anything back, this is what "The community" decided what they want to see in their games.

It's now the community standard to be bullies and to punish anyone who would stand up to them. To even say "you're wrong" to anyone makes you just as bad, if not worse, than the accuser by the standards set by the community. There's no point in following the rules when the "community" decide everything.

HexaDecimel2 votes

I have been playing for closed to 3 years and have never received so much as a warning. I generally talk a lot but I always keep a careful balance of respect and criticism. I know that I have been reported many times but I never have to worry about getting a ban because as long as I follow the TOS I don't need to worry about getting a punishment. Thats how the system works 99% of the time.

Krigjer1 votes

I'm not sure how people receive punishments so frequently. I consider myself a nice person with a quick tongue- I certainly retaliate if someone's being dumb or rude, yet I've only ever been punished ONCE in almost five years of playing. And it was only a five game chat restriction.

That said, I miss the Tribunal. Chat bans/restrictions are automatically given out now (last I heard) but anything more serious (like a 14 day suspension or permanent ban) are reviewed by actual people.

FalthyFranch1 votes

That's what I'm saying, I want the tribunal back. I personally along with other friends have come across an infinite amount of troll who do what I stated in my essay, and it gets real annoying.

FalthyFranch1 votes

No wonder this game is dying, it's filled with brainwashed idiots. That'll be all, Riot is clearly useless, good job brainwashing these kids.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

How are they "brainwashed" when they themselves never received a single punishment? Hell, even I myself can't get myself punished once.

RedTao1 votes

Of course it is. All the ones with common sense are going to other games. Shot, even HotS is better than what this community has become.

Karunamon1 votes

If Riot's changes make the game unpalatable to those who can't keep a civil tongue in their heads, I'm all for them. Go play DOTA, and you can rage with the other ragers all you like :)

RedTao1 votes

The Tribunal never left. It's just Riot's "Behavioral Specialists" that make the decisions, not the players. The most that players interact with the Tribunal now is that they report "What they dont like" and Riot enforces what is reported. If it's something that "The community doesn't want to see" (Which Riot interprets from amount of reports sent) then it's enforced under the authority "It's what the players want". Regardless if you follow the summoners code or any of the agreements you agreed to follow: If enough players report you for something, then it's punishable.

Karunamon2 votes

I've yet to see a single "I got suspended" complaint in here that didn't boil down to the summoner in question breaking the rules in one way or another.

It really breaks down to two things:

  • Don't be a jerk in chat
  • Don't feed

You'll notice there's no exception in there for "well the other guy was a jerk first"

SanctusEquitem861 votes

which means if you get out played you may lose your account lol.

Karunamon2 votes

Not one person in the history of LoL has been banned or punished for being bad at the game.

RedTao1 votes

I've never done either of the 2. if you read my previous punishment logs, you can see it for yourself.

Itankyou1 votes

I've started this new account to feel fresh and to be honest, this game is as good as ever

Knew it was a troll post right there, this game is garbage get over it.

nerak231 votes

RedTao

I again by apologizing, if feels like most my immediate family is sick and in the hospital, as last we spoke. I haven't yet gone back and looked at our pm on friends list as I erased it by accident.

Listen Friend I'm still having some health problems here, but I told you once I'd listen to your side and I Will !

Do a favor and try to get your point across a different way. I'll be on for awhile, Mom's having a hard time breathing...but seems you are having a bad time to so I'm here now. If you don't wish to talk, GL :) and I will be around on and off Red !

RedTao1 votes

I've taken multiple ways to get my point across. So far it seems like the same things keep happening. Everyone says im toxic, nothing continues to happen and I keep getting away with being toxic. I can only come up with so many ways to point things out until it becomes a repitition. It's all pointing at the same thing.

I think chats erase themselves after a while so i cant blame you. I dont really talk to anyone anymore since all I seem to do is offend everyone. Im tired of losing friends so the less I talk to them the better it is for the relationship. If you want to talk to me, it's best if it wasn't about LoL.

You keep doing your thing. Tell your family to hang in there. My best wishes go to you.

Dominick Destine1 votes

The system is ultra draconian, yes that's true.

nerak231 votes

You keep doing your thing. Tell your family to hang in there. My best wishes go to you.

Thanks Red I appreciate the thoughts! I just wish I had more time to be on the actual game. We may not agree on some things but still best of luck !

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